I hope Blizzard will change this in their bossfights by giving the bosses better AI. it was not much variation to bossfights in D2 other than the way their skills worked. You attacked them in pretty much the same way in the end.
PvE should be just as fun as PvP in terms of how much you have to control your character.
I believe boss fights will be MUCH better than D2.
D3 is a post WOW game, and if boss fights are 1% as diverse as boss fights in WOW then D3 bosses will be awesome.
I believe boss fights will be MUCH better than D2.
D3 is a post WOW game, and if boss fights are 1% as diverse as boss fights in WOW then D3 bosses will be awesome.
They said boss fights in Diablo III were inspired by Legend of Zelda and WoW, so I would imagine that each boss has different stages for attacks and stuff. Should be interesting.
Yup i cant wait to fight Diablo and the other evils at different stages.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
So what can really provide a challenge in PvE in a game like Diablo? I'm open here, I just don't really know what.
You mentioned a good gear may overcome challenges alone and thats quite true in D2 but they can change that...
A area were even with the best gear possible you wouldn't be able to finish it easilly is a good exemple.
Also make monsters have nice skills that is indepent of items to be challenging. For exemple, those desert dudes with whirlwind. No matter your damage, your attack rating or your armor, you will have to hit him when he stop spinnig and this add a little more challenge to the game. Imagine more merciless versions of such monsters (he nukes your for insane damage if you attack him when his spinning).
The only thing i know is, D2 formula (Farm->Better Gear-> Better Farm->Uber Gear->etc...) will not work again, at least for me. They have to creat some really hardcore challenges or else the game will not have content to sustain a fan base.
PvE should be just as fun as PvP in terms of how much you have to control your character.
I disagree. Keep making the uber gear, it's fun to get and fun to use.)
Speak for yourself. (Well, I guess you are speaking for alot of people. ) Me I liked going through no-twink and with zero boss runs. A barbarian relying on leap, howl, and battle cry for survival is way more challenging than putting up your BO, whirling into any mass of enemies with your super armor and not even flinching, watching them fall over. D2 was capable of being a challenging arcade game requiring "dodge" type active defense moves, its just that the default imbalance rarely supported this kind of play.
The OP asked how to make gameplay challenging. You let your gear (and skills) get out of control and people will break any kind of challenge there is. 1.10+ hell mode for example can be really rough on melee chars, UNLESS you have the right gear, and then it's a joke. There's no way to bridge that disparity unless you cut down the gear differences.
I'm not at all saying there shouldn't be super rare gear, and it shouldn't be the best... it just shouldn't be 5x better than everything else. In other words you shouldn't be able to just rely on gear, otherwise you get the above dilemma.
Speak for yourself. (Well, I guess you are speaking for alot of people. ) Me I liked going through no-twink and with zero boss runs. A barbarian relying on leap, howl, and battle cry for survival is way more challenging than putting up your BO, whirling into any mass of enemies with your super armor and not even flinching, watching them fall over. D2 was capable of being a challenging arcade game requiring "dodge" type active defense moves, its just that the default imbalance rarely supported this kind of play.
The OP asked how to make gameplay challenging. You let your gear (and skills) get out of control and people will break any kind of challenge there is. 1.10+ hell mode for example can be really rough on melee chars, UNLESS you have the right gear, and then it's a joke. There's no way to bridge that disparity unless you cut down the gear differences.
I'm not at all saying there shouldn't be super rare gear, and it shouldn't be the best... it just shouldn't be 5x better than everything else. In other words you shouldn't be able to just rely on gear, otherwise you get the above dilemma.
The uber gear been so easy is a twist in the game caused by item dupes and bots. Playing SP you really have to rely on more skills and the game are far more challenging.
Just make the game so difficult that you cab't simple trample the monsters, even with the best gear.
What about the people that aren't even close to having the best gear? They wouldn't stand a chance at all.
Diablo is a item centered game. No matter what, people with less item will be inferior. The only way to fix this "flaw" is removing items from the game or add a guild wars like "Item-freedom" crap.
The only way they can add a challenge that can't be overcome by items alone is by putting a area that even with best gear possible it requires alot of skill. This area is not required to finish the game. Actually, it's ALOT harder then the last boss in hell. It's just like Ubers, but alot more harder.
I think the term "hard" in Diablo should really mean hard and not mean "get better gear or respect".
I agree. And the only way this can possibly exist is by make something so difficult that gear will not make up for one's lack of skill.
Actually i agree the gear should be alot less overpowered then D2. Some items in D2 just make the game ridicolous. A good exemple is that unic BP that gives you almost poison immunity. Really, one can farm Andy in nightmare at level 24 or 30, getting ridicolous exp and leveling to 40 in 20 minutes. Just because you have a damn armor.
Still, the game is centered uppon get new equipament. The reason we play the damn game is to have pleasure and nothing gives more pleasure then get new stuff.
I will not be satisfied if when i finnaly get something new i get +0.5% DPS like in WoW.
So you would be forced to get uber gear before you are able to finish the game? I'd much rather have special areas for when you have completed Hell to do these hard things. I want to be able to complete the game without top gear.
Well, if there are special areas after hell, then by completing hell you have not really completed the game have you?
Quote from "italofoca" »
I agree. And the only way this can possibly exist is by make something so difficult that gear will not make up for one's lack of skill.
Like you were saying, Diablo is about items. You can argue that areas could be made to test skill, but how much skill can be tested when the player is only hitting hot keys and clicking a mouse? I'm not saying that there is no skill involved in Diablo, I'm only saying that the equipment dominates in the end.
I personally do not mind the item based approach. Playing Diablo is like playing the lottery thousands of times in a row, you never know whats going to drop on that next kill. It can be said that pursuit of items in a game to become more powerful is a pointless cycle. But what is the real point of any game?
Like you were saying, Diablo is about items. You can argue that areas could be made to test skill, but how much skill can be tested when the player is only hitting hot keys and clicking a mouse? I'm not saying that there is no skill involved in Diablo, I'm only saying that the equipment dominates in the end.
?? Are you just saying no computer game takes no skill becausethis is basically you do in EVERYGAME.
Or are you trying to say in diablo we are just hitting buttoms randomly and thats ok ?
Low requeriment of skill and too simple gameplay is the number one Diablo 2 flaw and if they can't fix that D3 will be a instant fail.
I personally do not mind the item based approach. Playing Diablo is like playing the lottery thousands of times in a row, you never know whats going to drop on that next kill. It can be said that pursuit of items in a game to become more powerful is a pointless cycle. But what is the real point of any game?
Have fun. But to have fun a person have to overcome a good challenge. Farm our ass off were fun in 90's. Thats way D2's eternal cycle of farm worked. A game based at farming are obsolete nowdays, this is totally out of question.
I agree i cant stand farming in games, wasting that many hours for 1 item is never worth it in any game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
D3 is a post WOW game, and if boss fights are 1% as diverse as boss fights in WOW then D3 bosses will be awesome.
They said boss fights in Diablo III were inspired by Legend of Zelda and WoW, so I would imagine that each boss has different stages for attacks and stuff. Should be interesting.
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
You mentioned a good gear may overcome challenges alone and thats quite true in D2 but they can change that...
A area were even with the best gear possible you wouldn't be able to finish it easilly is a good exemple.
Also make monsters have nice skills that is indepent of items to be challenging. For exemple, those desert dudes with whirlwind. No matter your damage, your attack rating or your armor, you will have to hit him when he stop spinnig and this add a little more challenge to the game. Imagine more merciless versions of such monsters (he nukes your for insane damage if you attack him when his spinning).
The only thing i know is, D2 formula (Farm->Better Gear-> Better Farm->Uber Gear->etc...) will not work again, at least for me. They have to creat some really hardcore challenges or else the game will not have content to sustain a fan base.
You're so right.
Speak for yourself. (Well, I guess you are speaking for alot of people. ) Me I liked going through no-twink and with zero boss runs. A barbarian relying on leap, howl, and battle cry for survival is way more challenging than putting up your BO, whirling into any mass of enemies with your super armor and not even flinching, watching them fall over. D2 was capable of being a challenging arcade game requiring "dodge" type active defense moves, its just that the default imbalance rarely supported this kind of play.
The OP asked how to make gameplay challenging. You let your gear (and skills) get out of control and people will break any kind of challenge there is. 1.10+ hell mode for example can be really rough on melee chars, UNLESS you have the right gear, and then it's a joke. There's no way to bridge that disparity unless you cut down the gear differences.
I'm not at all saying there shouldn't be super rare gear, and it shouldn't be the best... it just shouldn't be 5x better than everything else. In other words you shouldn't be able to just rely on gear, otherwise you get the above dilemma.
The uber gear been so easy is a twist in the game caused by item dupes and bots. Playing SP you really have to rely on more skills and the game are far more challenging.
Just make the game so difficult that you cab't simple trample the monsters, even with the best gear.
If you expect anything that a casual player can not reach in D3, you will not get it. I'd put my money on that.
Going back to farm shit? No thanks. Never had to do that in DII and do not plan to do it in the next installment.
Diablo is a item centered game. No matter what, people with less item will be inferior. The only way to fix this "flaw" is removing items from the game or add a guild wars like "Item-freedom" crap.
The only way they can add a challenge that can't be overcome by items alone is by putting a area that even with best gear possible it requires alot of skill. This area is not required to finish the game. Actually, it's ALOT harder then the last boss in hell. It's just like Ubers, but alot more harder.
I agree. And the only way this can possibly exist is by make something so difficult that gear will not make up for one's lack of skill.
Actually i agree the gear should be alot less overpowered then D2. Some items in D2 just make the game ridicolous. A good exemple is that unic BP that gives you almost poison immunity. Really, one can farm Andy in nightmare at level 24 or 30, getting ridicolous exp and leveling to 40 in 20 minutes. Just because you have a damn armor.
Still, the game is centered uppon get new equipament. The reason we play the damn game is to have pleasure and nothing gives more pleasure then get new stuff.
I will not be satisfied if when i finnaly get something new i get +0.5% DPS like in WoW.
Well, if there are special areas after hell, then by completing hell you have not really completed the game have you?
Like you were saying, Diablo is about items. You can argue that areas could be made to test skill, but how much skill can be tested when the player is only hitting hot keys and clicking a mouse? I'm not saying that there is no skill involved in Diablo, I'm only saying that the equipment dominates in the end.
I personally do not mind the item based approach. Playing Diablo is like playing the lottery thousands of times in a row, you never know whats going to drop on that next kill. It can be said that pursuit of items in a game to become more powerful is a pointless cycle. But what is the real point of any game?
Fair enough.
?? Are you just saying no computer game takes no skill becausethis is basically you do in EVERYGAME.
Or are you trying to say in diablo we are just hitting buttoms randomly and thats ok ?
Low requeriment of skill and too simple gameplay is the number one Diablo 2 flaw and if they can't fix that D3 will be a instant fail.
Have fun. But to have fun a person have to overcome a good challenge. Farm our ass off were fun in 90's. Thats way D2's eternal cycle of farm worked. A game based at farming are obsolete nowdays, this is totally out of question.
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
^This.
Or else!!! ̿ ̿̿’̿’\̵͇̿̿\з==(•̪●)==ε/̵͇̿̿/’̿’̿ ̿ ̿̿
Not only can. It SHOULD.