Lifesteal

  • #1
    A couple of questions about Lifesteal

    - Is it still nerfed on Inferno (I might be wrong but there was some reduction)?
    - does it work similar to Life On Hit? The tooltip says: "3% coverted to life", so it is 3% of life comes from each hit (crit+white)? and why is it steal then?
    My Barb (p100,300k unbuffed) /// Newborn Monk
  • #2
    Yes it is still nerfed. Nothing has changed since launch afaik.

    It's lifesteal because it's proportional to the damage you're dealing. With life on hit you could hit for 1 damage and still get your max LoH.
  • #3
    The penelty is 80% on inferno. So lets say u have 5% LL then u get healed for 1% of u r dmg dealed. LL scales with the dmg. So u get higher heals with high crits. For monks its not as good as loh but with the right amount of dmg kinda decent and way cheaper then loh.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #4
    This skill bums me out because on D2, life leach was my fav skill. I could do Uber Trist runs and never die due to life leach. But maybe that is why they changed it so you COULD actually die. lol
  • #5
    LOH proced only on hits.
    Lifesteal is proced by hits and skills (sweeping wind and it cyclones). Correct me if I wrong.
  • #6
    Quote from Athrogate74

    This skill bums me out because on D2, life leach was my fav skill. I could do Uber Trist runs and never die due to life leach. But maybe that is why they changed it so you COULD actually die. lol

    Yeah I think that is probably why :P
  • #7
    Quote from Gorkv

    LOH proced only on hits.
    Lifesteal is proced by hits and skills (sweeping wind and it cyclones). Correct me if I wrong.

    LoH, does indeed only proc on hits that would do damage so it doesn't give you anything when a mob is shielded and for certain abilities you only get a % of the actual heal, Blizzard is something like 1% or some pathetically small figure.

    LL is proc'd from the damage that any hit does so when you hit certain points in damage then LL is better than LoH until that point tho it's not as good. LL gives variable heals due to crits, so with high crit you can then heal for even more.
  • #8
    Quote from Shinna1989

    For monks its not as good as loh until you break 40-50k damage

    Fixed for you.
    Just fyi with only 2.7% lifesteal (44k damage), in packs that I aoe, lifesteal is returning ~3k a second (700ish on single target).

    And to address another poster:
    Life on hit only procs off some moves. Yes, it is nice. It's also expensive. Ontop of that, it doesn't scale (except for attacks per second), and it doesn't proc off things like SW, cyclones, Backlash, etc.

    Lifesteal works on all of these. It is very simple: You do damage, you get % life back based on that damage. Doesn't matter the source or how you dealt the damage, as long as its yours.

    Also, its far more common on weapons, and cheaper to budget (values on iL63 weapon range from 2.2-3.0, where life on hit is like 100-1000), and usually an ignored stat when people price things out. 900 dps with socket and loh? 100 million. 900 with socket and ls%? like 5 mil or less. =)
  • #9
    Quote from BaconBacon

    Quote from Shinna1989

    For monks its not as good as loh until you break 40-50k damage
    Fixed for you.
    Just fyi with only 2.7% lifesteal (44k damage), in packs that I aoe, lifesteal is returning ~3k a second (700ish on single target).
    Im running 55k DPS unbuffed atm with 5% LL and those 5% arent better then 900 loh witch i had with my old weapons. So pls dont spread false numbers. With 2,7% LL u heal for 2,7 X 0,2 = 0,54% of your dmg. So u need 555k ae dps as a monk to heal for 3k/sec.. Pls get real. LL is nice for dealing with reflect/electrified affix combos. Its cheaper then loh but with realy high dps gear u wont even need ll at all as a monk since u burn thru a pack within your cds.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #10
    Quote from BaconBacon

    Just fyi with only 2.7% lifesteal (44k damage), in packs that I aoe, lifesteal is returning ~3k a second (700ish on single target).

    A decent amount of LoH will give you back a lot more HP than that, assuming you're dual wielding 2 fast weapons. I get roughly 3k per second on my monk, against single target. Obviously more in aoe situations.

    For LL to be more effective for a dual wielder, you need to have ridiculously high dps. If you can kill a 5 mil HP elite in 10 seconds, then it's time to look towards LL.

    The one thing it does have for it is that it's a very "cheap" stat.
  • #11
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Quote from BaconBacon

    Quote from Shinna1989

    For monks its not as good as loh until you break 40-50k damage
    Fixed for you.
    Just fyi with only 2.7% lifesteal (44k damage), in packs that I aoe, lifesteal is returning ~3k a second (700ish on single target).
    Im running 55k DPS unbuffed atm with 5% LL and those 5% arent better then 900 loh witch i had with my old weapons. So pls dont spread false numbers. With 2,7% LL u heal for 2,7 X 0,2 = 0,54% of your dmg. So u need 555k ae dps as a monk to heal for 3k/sec.. Pls get real. LL is nice for dealing with reflect/electrified affix combos. Its cheaper then loh but with realy high dps gear u wont even need ll at all as a monk since u burn thru a pack within your cds.

    While what you say is true, sweeping winds -cyclone used properly benefits a ton from life leech. It is also very possible to achieve 555k ae dps. I crit for 165k it wouldn't take much.

    I would say when you're at around 60-70k dmg unbuffed that life leech is better than LOH for that stat slot. That isn't to say ignore LOH, but as far as value and even to a degree application you're probably better off getting a weapon with 3% life steal vs 959 loh. Not to mention how limited you are in your weapon selection when you start filtering 800+ LOH weapons as well as how quickly they jump in price.

    I can tell you, it's quite nice to have life leech keep you alive while you're frozen/feared, all because of sweeping winds. I mean by all means get LOH but to ignore life steal is to ignore a valuable stat.

    One more thing to note, if you're using something other than thunderclap, which the LOH coefficient is insanely good for. It takes even less damage for Lifesteal to catch up to LOH, also if you use a 2 hander, lifesteal catches up quickly. Wave of light... again life steal quickly outpaces life on hit.


    Just to give you an idea of how limited you are when looking for perfect loh(959) with a socket and 100 + dex. There is 11 weapons. That's counting the 9 people that used 300-600 loh gems to get past 959 loh.

    3% lifesteal with a socket and 100+ dex, 16.75 pages worth. That's 200 weapons.
  • #12
    Quote from riptide

    While what you say is true, sweeping winds -cyclone used properly benefits a ton from life leech. It is also very possible to achieve 555k ae dps. I crit for 165k it wouldn't take much.

    I would say when you're at around 60-70k dmg unbuffed that life leech is better than LOH for that stat slot. That isn't to say ignore LOH, but as far as value and even to a degree application you're probably better off getting a weapon with 3% life steal vs 959 loh. Not to mention how limited you are in your weapon selection when you start filtering 800+ LOH weapons as well as how quickly they jump in price.

    I can tell you, it's quite nice to have life leech keep you alive while you're frozen/feared, all because of sweeping winds. I mean by all means get LOH but to ignore life steal is to ignore a valuable stat.

    One more thing to note, if you're using something other than thunderclap, which the LOH coefficient is insanely good for. It takes even less damage for Lifesteal to catch up to LOH, also if you use a 2 hander, lifesteal catches up quickly. Wave of light... again life steal quickly outpaces life on hit.


    Just to give you an idea of how limited you are when looking for perfect loh(959) with a socket and 100 + dex. There is 11 weapons. That's counting the 9 people that used 300-600 loh gems to get past 959 loh.

    3% lifesteal with a socket and 100+ dex, 16.75 pages worth. That's 200 weapons.
    Sure sw/cyclone triggers ll. With realy large trashpacks its no biggie to reach +500k peak ae dps but u wont have those +550k while fighting a pack - maybe when its horde and u need more then +40k sheetdps to have those high ae dps. I havent done the math for what ll heals for with +70k sheetdps. Maybe its getting close to like 700 loh but i doubt it. LOH is getting better in ae situations too. So i think u need kinda +80k sheet dps with 5% ll to bypass like 700 loh. And again with those insane dps u wont even need ll anymore.

    Dont get me wrong im using ll too and i kinda like it for being cheap and keep me alive while "reflect/electrified" or while fighting "horde". Getting frozen is a failure. Sometimes it happens when u got feared into it but +90%of the times its a fail and could be avoided by playing smarter. :P
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
  • #13
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Getting frozen is a failure. Sometimes it happens when u got feared into it but +90%of the times its a fail and could be avoided by playing smarter



    I got frozen once. The champion killed itself with that freeze.
  • #14
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Getting frozen is a failure. Sometimes it happens when u got feared into it but +90%of the times its a fail and could be avoided by playing smarter. :P
    Waller/Horde or Waller in a corridor says hi. (Note that I don't generally disagree with your statement, just want to vent my dislike for those cheap mobs a bit :P)
  • #15
    Quote from Shinna1989

    Sure sw/cyclone triggers ll. With realy large trashpacks its no biggie to reach +500k peak ae dps but u wont have those +550k while fighting a pack - maybe when its horde and u need more then +40k sheetdps to have those high ae dps. I havent done the math for what ll heals for with +70k sheetdps. Maybe its getting close to like 700 loh but i doubt it. LOH is getting better in ae situations too. So i think u need kinda +80k sheet dps with 5% ll to bypass like 700 loh. And again with those insane dps u wont even need ll anymore.

    Dont get me wrong im using ll too and i kinda like it for being cheap and keep me alive while "reflect/electrified" or while fighting "horde". Getting frozen is a failure. Sometimes it happens when u got feared into it but +90%of the times its a fail and could be avoided by playing smarter. :P

    Sure you can avoid getting frozen, but my point is there are definitely situations were lifesteal is good. Also you do realize that 70k char sheet unbuffed is actually 121k buffed char sheet at least for me(I do factor in Overawe). I use deadly reach - foresight(in place of blinding flash, which would be even better numbers for elites over foresight) and combination strike(instead of resolve/trans) Remember this doesn't take into account cyclones or sweeping winds.

    EDIT: I forgot to account for Overawe being active because I originally just went off my spreadsheet which didn't have it as active.
    15% blazing wrath
    16% combination strike
    18% foresight
    24% MoC-overawe passive.
    =73 %

    so 70,000 x 1.73= 121,100 (which is the number I originally used) then we add the active overawe which I believe gets applied on top. Gives us 121,100x 1.24= 150,164



    If you have something like say 2aps and you're using FOT:TC(75% coeffiecent) so you're getting 75%x2+75%x2+75%= 375% That's is 3 hits with the first 2 double hitting and double procing loh.

    So we now have average 125% loh per attack.

    We will use the absolute max roll of LOH(959) on weapon , you can't compare sockets or anything else as that is not a direct comparison. So we now have 959 x 2 loh = 1918 loh.

    That's 1918 x 1.25 = 2397.5 average loh per swing. We have 2aps so it's now 2397.5 x 2 = 4795 healing per second per target

    Drop the LOH down to a much more realistic 800 value per weapon and it's 4k healing per second

    Life steal max is 3% with an 80% penalty. Which leaves us with .6% but we are also dual wielding. So we have 1.2% effective life steal.

    At 400k dmg a second we are are at 4800 healing per second.

    Sweeping winds is 15% weapon dmg per stack. Now I'm just going to go off paper doll dps of 70k which is as I stated earlier 121k. So we have 121,000 x .45 for a 3 stack.

    SW(x3) = 54450 dmg a second Overawe active 67574

    Cyclones each hit is 20% weapon dmg, also one hits 4 times and last 3 seconds.
    I am going to assume 3 cyclones up. That's 12 hits for a total of 240% weapon damage in 3 seconds. Which is 80% weapon dmg a second. Using the same 70k unbuffed damage which is 121k buffed. we have 121,000 x .8 which is 96,800 dmg.

    Cyclone(x3) = 96,800 dmg a second Overawe active 120131

    FoT: TC is 110%x 3 with the first two hits procing an additional 35% weapon dmg. So we have 400% weapon dmg total from the 3 hits. For an average weapon damage of 133.33% per hit. Which is 160930 avg dmg per second.

    FoT:TC = 160930 Overawe active 199718

    Total dmg done to a single mob in front of you. 312180 DPS | Overawe 387423. Which is 3746 HPS | Overawe Active 4649 HPS




    TL;DR
    DW'n 70k unbuffed 2APS
    MAX LOH : 4800 HPS per target in small frontal cone
    MAX LS : 3746 HPS per target in small frontal | Overawe active 4649
    HPS from mobs OOR or behind you: 1829 | Overawe active 2252
    800 LOH : 4000 HPS per target in small frontal cone



    EDITED to include 100% overawe uptime.


    Now let me ask you this. How many people have one 959 LOH weapon without the gems let alone two? How many times are you not in range to attack but your cyclones are? How often are there mobs to your side or behind you? You do realize there's a potential 1829 | 2252 healing per second for each mob not directly in front of you or just out of thunderclap reach, right?

    Also 70k unbuffed is very obtainable when some monks have 120k unbuffed.

    I still believe that 2x 3.00 % life steal weapons is better than trying to get 2 959 loh weapons. Let's not even talk about the quality of the weapons stats. As I said earlier only 2 weapons had 100+ dex 959 loh and an open socket vs 200 weapons that have 100+dex 3% life steal and an open socket on the NA GAH.


    Just to clarify this is based off the paper doll dps. Which means I'm not accounting for people who use a slow hard hitting 1 hander to active sweeping winds and a fast offhand.
  • #16
    3% life steal is also available to you on a belt
  • #17
    god damn dbl post
  • #18
    Quote from beadon

    3% life steal is also available to you on a belt

    If you're a Barb, yes. But as most people should realize, you shouldn't be trying to replace loh with lifesteal. You should be comparing it's value on weapons to each other. You can get loh on rings and necks readily and on several legendarys in other slots. There's no reason to not get them in those slots if you feel you need LOH. In fact, I'd recommend it.
  • #19
    Much debate and all people need to figure out is that they work best COMBINED.

    I found myself a 937 LoH low dps weapon, got a cheap amulet with over 280 LoH and life is good. Now working on getting a 3% LL high dps weapon with a socket, since mine was replaced a while ago and I miss it, especially, as people have said here, SW/Cyclones with LL help a lot.
  • #20
    Your math is in some points not valid cuz u think dps/damage from the character sheet is equal to weapon damage and thats not the case.

    Read more about weapon damage here:

    http://diablo3blog.b...pon-damage.html

    http://us.battle.net...ic/5149146733#8

    This is the reason why its so hard to do the math on healing from ll. Sure in the long run it will avg out but in reality the healing from ll differs from fight to fight in kinda retarded ranges.
    Words of wisdom: Don't follow the advice of people who won't have to deal with the consequences.
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