Dunno why everyone is talking about finding legendaries that aren't ment for their class, when they said that they are going to implement the "smart drop" system where, the item will at least roll the main primary stat of the class you're playing. Yes the rest of the 5 affixes will vary but its highly unlikely that you'll get a Barb's 2 hander when you're playing a Wizard.
While i know not every legendary will be tailor made for your class, the chances of the above happening are very low with the new itemization. Keeping that in mind i'am okay with the legendaries and set items being soulbound (even though it will make completing sets almost impossible)
Sorry to point out - but they didn't say that they were removing TRADING from the game. They said that top tier legendary and set items would automatically be BoA.
What is a top tier legendary? We don't know.
I was thinking the same thing for a bit, but after listening to it a bunch of times...the way I interpreted it, unfortunately, is that they were considering legendaries and set items ALL to be the highest tier items in the game.
Obviously, I think if they meant that the highest tiers OF legendaries and sets were what was BOA, a lot of people will be heaving huge sighs of relief, but like I said, the way I interpreted it (and I could be very wrong) is that they were seeing legendaries and sets to the the high tier...not that the highest tiers of those two would be BOA.
Dunno why everyone is talking about finding legendaries that aren't ment for their class, when they said that they are going to implement the "smart drop" system where, the item will at least roll the main primary stat of the class you're playing. Yes the rest of the 5 affixes will vary but its highly unlikely that you'll get a Barb's 2 hander when you're playing a Wizard.
While i know not every legendary will be tailor made for your class, the chances of the above happening are very low with the new itemization. Keeping that in mind i'am okay with the legendaries and set items being soulbound (even though it will make completing sets almost impossible)
This is actually a really good thing to point out, I wasn't thinking of it.
Yeah, Smart Drops won't be a guarantee. The devs definitely pointed out it was not going to be a definite thing that ALL drops will be "Smart"...but a lot of drops will be tailored. Meaning, the chances of a Barb finding a Manticore? Not impossible, but...probably a teeny bit lower. The chances of a Wizard finding a Gazing Demise, probably a teeny bit lower. Etc. etc.
Obviously, that doesn't stray from the fact that on the off chance people do find off-class legendaries, that they'll want to trade them, but Smart Drops should be taken into consideration.
As well as the fact that Loot 2.0 offering build-changing legendaries SHOULD theoretically get people off the idea that they NEED incredibly specific legendaries to succeed. For instance, even if I'm playing my Monk and I'm searching for a particular fist weapon out in the field...if I find another that works in a different way, but I tweak my build here and there to make it awesome...what the hell do I care? I mean, that's a big aspect of what Loot 2.0 wanted to accomplish...making gear do things for your build that other items can't do, and increasing the quality of loot to the point that MOST legendaries can have phenomenal effects on your build if used properly. I'm sure there will be certain legendaries that end up helping certain builds work way better, but I think in this new landscape...while trading won't be AS necessary, in order for certain builds to work well, trading for insanely perfect pieces won't be as necessary.
That being said...getting all the pieces of SETS is a different animal. They showed that one Ninja DH set, which looks to have pretty cool effects, and in order to make that work, you need at least 2-4 of the pieces. Thus, unless Sets drop slightly more often in certain zones over others, farming pieces of Sets could prove harder without the freedom to trade freely.
Then again, people can just farm in groups. This system seems to realy encourage people to play in groups more than just hop into games for exchanges.
Blizzard just gave us:
Character permanence - you can't just flip item builds at the drop of a hat.
Unique characters - FOTM item builds will be less frequent.
No hacks/bots/third party sites
Chance of balanced PVP - there can be assumed strength progression based on time played vs statistical chances and std deviation.
Defined character progression - you can't just stack your little brother/ neighbor on their first day playing.
Additional reason to party up - 4 friends playing together is 4x the drops.
Yet you guys still whine and bitch. You guys will never be happy with this game.... if blizzard changed this to an exact D2 clone, people would scream about all the problems that were part of D2....
Blizzard just gave us:
Character permanence - you can't just flip item builds at the drop of a hat.
Unique characters - FOTM item builds will be less frequent.
No hacks/bots/third party sites
Chance of balanced PVP - there can be assumed strength progression based on time played vs statistical chances and std deviation.
Defined character progression - you can't just stack your little brother/ neighbor on their first day playing.
Additional reason to party up - 4 friends playing together is 4x the drops.
Yet you guys still whine and bitch. You guys will never be happy with this game.... if blizzard changed this to an exact D2 clone, people would scream about all the problems that were part of D2....
Wow. Very nicely said. :-)
Honestly, those are 6 major things people have been seriously complaining about since launch, and this type of change, along with Loot 2.0 in general, really does address all of them.
And really, it's not like you can't trade. Farming with friends lets you continue to trade. I'll grant people that it's hard to tell how public games will be in regard to trading, though. Most of the public games I've been in see people blazing through at light speed, because they feel epic enough to do so. So I'm having a hard time telling if public games in the expansion will have more of a community feel to them, and people being more pleased with the game will warrant greater sense of help and friendliness...or if better loot will just mean people will continue to be jerks hoarding it all for themselves.
Then again, I try and think about it...one of the reasons people like trading is that it can get them better items faster than just farming. So...if four strangers are in a public game, they all go out and do some Bounties and Rift Runs, it doesn't benefit them to just take what they get and run, one of the other three people in the game could have picked up something they need. Why not just ask "hey, anybody get X legendary? been looking for one."
I don't know! We could end up seeing some surprising cooperation in public games going forward. Just an inkling. We could end upseeing the idea of a "trading" game become more of a "co-op farming/trading" game...where people don't just jump into a game for an exchange, but instead, cooperatively see what drops, and everybody talks it over in town to sift through the loot to see if anybody needs anything in particular.
Character permanence - you can't just flip item builds at the drop of a hat.
The people who asked for character permenance were asking for things like the D2 skill tree or stats. I had never, to this point, seen anyone ask for character permenance because they can't trade. It's like arguing that nuclear weapons can help eliminate AIDS. Sure... technically they can, but when people were talking about "curing AIDS" they didn't mean "kill everyone who has AIDS." This Machiavellian "ends justifies the means" shit really irks me.
There are numerous ways to have character permenance without eliminating trading.
Unique characters - FOTM item builds will be less frequent.
Yes... but not for good reasons.
"I can't play <build> because I haven't found <item>, <item>, or <item>" is an asinine block to customizing your character. Since I know maka plays a WD, and I play a WD, let's say he is aiming for a DoT based WD and I'm aiming for a pet-based WD. The datamined strings show that there are legendaries that can support both. If I get the DoT gear and he gets the pet gear then neither of us are satisfied.... and even though there is a LOGICAL way to rectify it just by us exchanging our items so that we can play the desired build.... apparently we can't have that.
So we eliminate FotM builds... but we also potentially stick people with playing builds they don't want to play because they haven't found the right set/legendary items on their own. Sounds like one bad situation followed by another bad situation... and not an actual solution to the problem.
The solution to this particular problem is actually BALANCING SKILLS so that there aren't "FOTM builds" to begin with. Shocking, I know. In your "solution" FOTM builds would still exist... but access to them would be cut off, and that wouldn't actually fix the problem.
At what cost? We had tons of hacks, dupes, bots, and the rise of D2JSP during D2s reign. I dare say it didn't really effect my gameplay. I still enjoyed D2. I never logged in and thought "well, damn, all these dupers are ruining my game." Online only has basically eliminated duping. The removal of the AH combined with smart drops and enchanting will diminish the ability to profit from botting for gold.
And, frankly, if you're worried about 3rd party sites, the best way to combat that is to... reintroduce the RMAH. It's a much better solution to give a BETTER alternative than to try to beat the "bad guys."
Defined character progression - you can't just stack your little brother/ neighbor on their first day playing.
Why in the world is this something that needs to be eliminated? Again, this was something that people did in D2 and history showed that it didn't have any kind of major adverse effects. You're "solving" a problem that doesn't exist except in your own mind.
"I can't play <build> because I haven't found <item>, <item>, or <item>" is an asinine block to customizing your character. Since I know maka plays a WD, and I play a WD, let's say he is aiming for a DoT based WD and I'm aiming for a pet-based WD. The datamined strings show that there are legendaries that can support both. If I get the DoT gear and he gets the pet gear then neither of us are satisfied.... and even though there is a LOGICAL way to rectify it just by us exchanging our items so that we can play the desired build.... apparently we can't have that.
So we eliminate FotM builds... but we also potentially stick people with playing builds they don't want to play because they haven't found the right set/legendary items on their own. Sounds like one bad situation followed by another bad situation... and not an actual solution to the problem.
The game could, imo, be more interesting if you aren't necessarily striving toward one specific build as you progress, but rather you are adjusting to what items you get.
Of course at some point on the progress curve, you reach a point where you start to have found so much gear that you take full control of what to spec.
But for a while, is it so bad to adjust and try to make the best out of what you have?
The solution to this particular problem is actually BALANCING SKILLS so that there aren't "FOTM builds" to begin with. Shocking, I know. In your "solution" FOTM builds would still exist... but access to them would be cut off, and that wouldn't actually fix the problem.
True. The only fix for FOTM is balance. And a huge increase in diverse challenges in the game.
Defined character progression - you can't just stack your little brother/ neighbor on their first day playing.
Why in the world is this something that needs to be eliminated? Again, this was something that people did in D2 and history showed that it didn't have any kind of major adverse effects. You're "solving" a problem that doesn't exist except in your own mind.
I agree it isn't a major issue. But by feeding people with items, you do risk reducing the fun they can have with the game.
But even if it isn't a big issue, it is insanely difficult to limit trading outside your group of friends, without also limiting it within that group. Then it becomes a matter of whether or not that trade-off is worth it.
Then again, I try and think about it...one of the reasons people like trading is that it can get them better items faster than just farming. So...if four strangers are in a public game, they all go out and do some Bounties and Rift Runs, it doesn't benefit them to just take what they get and run, one of the other three people in the game could have picked up something they need. Why not just ask "hey, anybody get X legendary? been looking for one."
This scenario is virtually impossible. 4 strangers play a game, one amazing item drops, player A gets it, B wants it. What could he offer for it? Cash? Gems?
Let me jump in and point this interview to anyone who might be interested.
All the way down, in questions 8-10, you can see their reasoning behind this particular feature. It is a follow up of the "kill monsters find loot".
(they ask if BoA/soulbound would still be needed even thought the AH has been removed)
Basically, they explain that in a situation where a friend gives you an awesome item, an upgrade, that also creates a situation where you're not finding any upgrades for some time, and hence the "gameplay is not rewarding". And to an extent it is a similar effect to the one caused by the AH (their words, not mine).
So I'm just bringing some more info to the discussion. Keep the developer reasoning in mind when driving the discussion forward, because chances are in order for them to change it, the concerns in said reasoning will have to be addressed.
Then again, I try and think about it...one of the reasons people like trading is that it can get them better items faster than just farming. So...if four strangers are in a public game, they all go out and do some Bounties and Rift Runs, it doesn't benefit them to just take what they get and run, one of the other three people in the game could have picked up something they need. Why not just ask "hey, anybody get X legendary? been looking for one."
This scenario is virtually impossible. 4 strangers play a game, one amazing item drops, player A gets it, B wants it. What could he offer for it? Cash? Gems?
The other player can just offer that legendary he found earlier no wait can't do that, that blue/yellow, no that's no good it's not going to be equivalent, perhaps they have a webcam and can pay in kind.
Then again, I try and think about it...one of the reasons people like trading is that it can get them better items faster than just farming. So...if four strangers are in a public game, they all go out and do some Bounties and Rift Runs, it doesn't benefit them to just take what they get and run, one of the other three people in the game could have picked up something they need. Why not just ask "hey, anybody get X legendary? been looking for one."
This scenario is virtually impossible. 4 strangers play a game, one amazing item drops, player A gets it, B wants it. What could he offer for it? Cash? Gems?
If gold retains its value, I'd be more than willing to trade a Legendary that I found for some Gold, or maybe even Crafting Materials (if they're also useful for enchanting/etc).
I'd also be more than willing to just give it away to a clan-mate if I knew I wouldn't use it, and he got really excited about trying the item on his Crusader (like say, if you find a STR-based Legendary Shield and you're playing a Demon Hunter). The great social experience is worth more than some in-game cash to me
Then again, I try and think about it...one of the reasons people like trading is that it can get them better items faster than just farming. So...if four strangers are in a public game, they all go out and do some Bounties and Rift Runs, it doesn't benefit them to just take what they get and run, one of the other three people in the game could have picked up something they need. Why not just ask "hey, anybody get X legendary? been looking for one."
This scenario is virtually impossible. 4 strangers play a game, one amazing item drops, player A gets it, B wants it. What could he offer for it? Cash? Gems?
Well, to be honest, everyone gets their own drops, first of all. That's how the game is designed. Everyone knows that, everyone has known that since launch. Thus, if Player B wants some amazing item that Player A got, it's still Player A's, and Player B has no right to get mad at Player A if Player A doesn't want to give it up.
Second of all, like Travis said in the video, "the exception is...if you're playing in a coop game with your friends, anything that you find in the same game as your friend you can freely exchange for a limited amount of time."
Meaning, trading isn't being eliminated, like some folks are making it sound. It's simply being fine-tuned so that you can't just collect 10, 20, 50 legendaries and hold them in your stash for months and months, til you find someone to take them, or you find someone with exactly the item you want. Either you're simply hoarding an alternate currency of high end items, or advancing too fast.
Travis also made a great point in the video..."some peoples' only experience with trading is that someone will jump into a game, drop a ton of stuff on the ground and leave." While this doesn't happen en masse, even friends giving friends huge upgrades does limit how much one finds (or is capable of finding) for oneself.
That's why trading is still being allowed between friends (unsure if that means people on each others' friends lists, or if it encompasses strangers in public games), because people like leveling characters and farming alongside one another. Yes, it is "social" to be in a trading game or a giveaway game or meet someone who hands you some massive upgrade, but in a way...it's more alluring and conducive to keep farming to watch a high powered character in action and get the item to drop yourself (or even alongside them), than to just have them hand you one of their 8 spares.
When I get a legendary drop that I know I can only find - (not buy or trade for) - I will finally be excited when I see it drop.
I want to have that jump out of my chair and go go 'fuck yes' this is awesome. not many people will have an item like this so I feel pretty lucky.
This feeling I do not think can occur without a BOA model for top teir items.
Trading for the best items, or friends giving me them, will not make me jump out of my seat...
This is a legit concern. And probably why they decided to have more BoA/soulbound.
I'm starting to think thta probably the best way to handle this particular issue was to have 2 separate modes, a self-found mode and a free-market mode, and people can choose the lesser evil on their own. Even if it would severely segregate the community. Otherwise it's gonna be an eternal Trojans vs Greeks war.
I'm starting to think thta probably the best way to handle this particular issue was to have 2 separate modes, a self-found mode and a free-market mode, and people can choose the lesser evil on their own. Even if it would severely segregate the community. Otherwise it's gonna be an eternal Trojans vs Greeks war.
That could work, but if droprates are the same in these two modes, then you are not offering people a fair choice.
Unless droprates are balanced for the lack of trading (and vice versa) then two modes would not really be different from just self-restricting yourself today.
The most efficient way to play would be to pick trade-mode, like using AH is the most efficient today.
i've learned about taking things told by blizzard employees too serious. i cant understand how people start ranting on stuff they dont even know about in detail.
That's exactly the point. We want more details. We rant because if we don't like what we see, we want 1 of 3 things:
1. Clarification on exactly what is being changed and why.
2. Blizzard to hear our complaints and consider reversing the change or modifying in a way that makes both parties happy.
3. To yell at the wind and vent our frustration.
It's easy to say that we should just shut up and be happy with the game the way it is but..that's what this forum is for. If you don't want to hear people complain about changes or ask for more information, I'm not sure why you're here.
I've thought about it, and here's where I stand, for what it's worth:
I hated trading in D2. And I hated that trading was the only reliable way of getting the best items, because trading was so painful. It was my biggest problem with D2, and the AH solved that problem. If Blizzard isn't going to do something, anything, to replace the AH in D3 (and there's been no indication that they are going to), then I don't see myself doing much trading in D3 outside my circle of friends or people that I happen to be playing with at the time.
So, as long as self-found is becoming a reliable way to play the game, or at least better than it is currently, then I really don't care what they do to trading or binding or any of that. I'm pretty much just going to be playing to find items that benefit me and not worrying about getting items from others or finding items that are "worth" something (because without some kind of market system, how are we supposed to know what something is worth anyway?).
However, BoA on all high-end items would effectively kill off trade as far as the end-game goes, so I don't seem them putting much effort into trade if this change sticks. Which is why I say there's no indication that they are thinking that much about trade.
The play-through surveys at blizzcon focused on two things: Crusader play and loot. They were definitely trying to get a lot of feedback on how players felt about the loot drops (scarcity, power, how interesting they were, etc). My guess is that they keep a lot of details under the hood until ptr (or beta) when they can get a much larger sample size on how the loot system feels vs the trading system etc.
My personal opinion (at this early stage) is that set/legendary limited to very restricted trading is ok. Their focus seems to be solely on improving the loot system which means, in theory, you wouldn't need to hoard as many items and can recycle them into crafted goods or something else. Will it work? We'll have to wait to play the game in longer than 10 minute increments to find out.
Edit: To build off Miles' last post: if they achieve their goal and make "self found" rewarding on its own, there will actually be an increased incentive to group (higher chance of getting leg/set items with the ability to trade them).
miles i dont wanna tell anyone to shut up (who would do this?) just give them a little bit time. there will be a bluepost in the next days for sure i believe. maybe i used the wrong wording to spare my feelings with you, no offense.
To be fair, we gave them a good bit of time while waiting for Blizzcon. As far as itemization info goes, they didn't have much to deliver.
No offense taken, btw.
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While i know not every legendary will be tailor made for your class, the chances of the above happening are very low with the new itemization. Keeping that in mind i'am okay with the legendaries and set items being soulbound (even though it will make completing sets almost impossible)
I was thinking the same thing for a bit, but after listening to it a bunch of times...the way I interpreted it, unfortunately, is that they were considering legendaries and set items ALL to be the highest tier items in the game.
Obviously, I think if they meant that the highest tiers OF legendaries and sets were what was BOA, a lot of people will be heaving huge sighs of relief, but like I said, the way I interpreted it (and I could be very wrong) is that they were seeing legendaries and sets to the the high tier...not that the highest tiers of those two would be BOA.
This is actually a really good thing to point out, I wasn't thinking of it.
Yeah, Smart Drops won't be a guarantee. The devs definitely pointed out it was not going to be a definite thing that ALL drops will be "Smart"...but a lot of drops will be tailored. Meaning, the chances of a Barb finding a Manticore? Not impossible, but...probably a teeny bit lower. The chances of a Wizard finding a Gazing Demise, probably a teeny bit lower. Etc. etc.
Obviously, that doesn't stray from the fact that on the off chance people do find off-class legendaries, that they'll want to trade them, but Smart Drops should be taken into consideration.
As well as the fact that Loot 2.0 offering build-changing legendaries SHOULD theoretically get people off the idea that they NEED incredibly specific legendaries to succeed. For instance, even if I'm playing my Monk and I'm searching for a particular fist weapon out in the field...if I find another that works in a different way, but I tweak my build here and there to make it awesome...what the hell do I care? I mean, that's a big aspect of what Loot 2.0 wanted to accomplish...making gear do things for your build that other items can't do, and increasing the quality of loot to the point that MOST legendaries can have phenomenal effects on your build if used properly. I'm sure there will be certain legendaries that end up helping certain builds work way better, but I think in this new landscape...while trading won't be AS necessary, in order for certain builds to work well, trading for insanely perfect pieces won't be as necessary.
That being said...getting all the pieces of SETS is a different animal. They showed that one Ninja DH set, which looks to have pretty cool effects, and in order to make that work, you need at least 2-4 of the pieces. Thus, unless Sets drop slightly more often in certain zones over others, farming pieces of Sets could prove harder without the freedom to trade freely.
Then again, people can just farm in groups. This system seems to realy encourage people to play in groups more than just hop into games for exchanges.
Blizzard just gave us:
Character permanence - you can't just flip item builds at the drop of a hat.
Unique characters - FOTM item builds will be less frequent.
No hacks/bots/third party sites
Chance of balanced PVP - there can be assumed strength progression based on time played vs statistical chances and std deviation.
Defined character progression - you can't just stack your little brother/ neighbor on their first day playing.
Additional reason to party up - 4 friends playing together is 4x the drops.
Yet you guys still whine and bitch. You guys will never be happy with this game.... if blizzard changed this to an exact D2 clone, people would scream about all the problems that were part of D2....
Wow. Very nicely said. :-)
Honestly, those are 6 major things people have been seriously complaining about since launch, and this type of change, along with Loot 2.0 in general, really does address all of them.
And really, it's not like you can't trade. Farming with friends lets you continue to trade. I'll grant people that it's hard to tell how public games will be in regard to trading, though. Most of the public games I've been in see people blazing through at light speed, because they feel epic enough to do so. So I'm having a hard time telling if public games in the expansion will have more of a community feel to them, and people being more pleased with the game will warrant greater sense of help and friendliness...or if better loot will just mean people will continue to be jerks hoarding it all for themselves.
Then again, I try and think about it...one of the reasons people like trading is that it can get them better items faster than just farming. So...if four strangers are in a public game, they all go out and do some Bounties and Rift Runs, it doesn't benefit them to just take what they get and run, one of the other three people in the game could have picked up something they need. Why not just ask "hey, anybody get X legendary? been looking for one."
I don't know! We could end up seeing some surprising cooperation in public games going forward. Just an inkling. We could end upseeing the idea of a "trading" game become more of a "co-op farming/trading" game...where people don't just jump into a game for an exchange, but instead, cooperatively see what drops, and everybody talks it over in town to sift through the loot to see if anybody needs anything in particular.
That'd be pretty awesome.
Although I will keep whining about the things that need to be improved.
But happy to see that some of these might be improved through BoA.
The people who asked for character permenance were asking for things like the D2 skill tree or stats. I had never, to this point, seen anyone ask for character permenance because they can't trade. It's like arguing that nuclear weapons can help eliminate AIDS. Sure... technically they can, but when people were talking about "curing AIDS" they didn't mean "kill everyone who has AIDS." This Machiavellian "ends justifies the means" shit really irks me.
There are numerous ways to have character permenance without eliminating trading.
Yes... but not for good reasons.
"I can't play <build> because I haven't found <item>, <item>, or <item>" is an asinine block to customizing your character. Since I know maka plays a WD, and I play a WD, let's say he is aiming for a DoT based WD and I'm aiming for a pet-based WD. The datamined strings show that there are legendaries that can support both. If I get the DoT gear and he gets the pet gear then neither of us are satisfied.... and even though there is a LOGICAL way to rectify it just by us exchanging our items so that we can play the desired build.... apparently we can't have that.
So we eliminate FotM builds... but we also potentially stick people with playing builds they don't want to play because they haven't found the right set/legendary items on their own. Sounds like one bad situation followed by another bad situation... and not an actual solution to the problem.
The solution to this particular problem is actually BALANCING SKILLS so that there aren't "FOTM builds" to begin with. Shocking, I know. In your "solution" FOTM builds would still exist... but access to them would be cut off, and that wouldn't actually fix the problem.
At what cost? We had tons of hacks, dupes, bots, and the rise of D2JSP during D2s reign. I dare say it didn't really effect my gameplay. I still enjoyed D2. I never logged in and thought "well, damn, all these dupers are ruining my game." Online only has basically eliminated duping. The removal of the AH combined with smart drops and enchanting will diminish the ability to profit from botting for gold.
And, frankly, if you're worried about 3rd party sites, the best way to combat that is to... reintroduce the RMAH. It's a much better solution to give a BETTER alternative than to try to beat the "bad guys."
Why in the world is this something that needs to be eliminated? Again, this was something that people did in D2 and history showed that it didn't have any kind of major adverse effects. You're "solving" a problem that doesn't exist except in your own mind.
Or, the other end of the spectrum: if you're not in a 4-player party you're gimping your chances at loot.
Sounds smart to me!
The game could, imo, be more interesting if you aren't necessarily striving toward one specific build as you progress, but rather you are adjusting to what items you get.
Of course at some point on the progress curve, you reach a point where you start to have found so much gear that you take full control of what to spec.
But for a while, is it so bad to adjust and try to make the best out of what you have?
True. The only fix for FOTM is balance. And a huge increase in diverse challenges in the game.
I agree it isn't a major issue. But by feeding people with items, you do risk reducing the fun they can have with the game.
But even if it isn't a big issue, it is insanely difficult to limit trading outside your group of friends, without also limiting it within that group. Then it becomes a matter of whether or not that trade-off is worth it.
This scenario is virtually impossible. 4 strangers play a game, one amazing item drops, player A gets it, B wants it. What could he offer for it? Cash? Gems?
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
All the way down, in questions 8-10, you can see their reasoning behind this particular feature. It is a follow up of the "kill monsters find loot".
(they ask if BoA/soulbound would still be needed even thought the AH has been removed)
Basically, they explain that in a situation where a friend gives you an awesome item, an upgrade, that also creates a situation where you're not finding any upgrades for some time, and hence the "gameplay is not rewarding". And to an extent it is a similar effect to the one caused by the AH (their words, not mine).
So I'm just bringing some more info to the discussion. Keep the developer reasoning in mind when driving the discussion forward, because chances are in order for them to change it, the concerns in said reasoning will have to be addressed.
The other player can just offer that legendary he found earlier no wait can't do that, that blue/yellow, no that's no good it's not going to be equivalent, perhaps they have a webcam and can pay in kind.
I'd also be more than willing to just give it away to a clan-mate if I knew I wouldn't use it, and he got really excited about trying the item on his Crusader (like say, if you find a STR-based Legendary Shield and you're playing a Demon Hunter). The great social experience is worth more than some in-game cash to me
@maffia the webcam idea is neat.. but rule 31
I want to have that jump out of my chair and go go 'fuck yes' this is awesome. not many people will have an item like this so I feel pretty lucky.
This feeling I do not think can occur without a BOA model for top teir items.
Trading for the best items, or friends giving me them, will not make me jump out of my seat...
Well, to be honest, everyone gets their own drops, first of all. That's how the game is designed. Everyone knows that, everyone has known that since launch. Thus, if Player B wants some amazing item that Player A got, it's still Player A's, and Player B has no right to get mad at Player A if Player A doesn't want to give it up.
Second of all, like Travis said in the video, "the exception is...if you're playing in a coop game with your friends, anything that you find in the same game as your friend you can freely exchange for a limited amount of time."
Meaning, trading isn't being eliminated, like some folks are making it sound. It's simply being fine-tuned so that you can't just collect 10, 20, 50 legendaries and hold them in your stash for months and months, til you find someone to take them, or you find someone with exactly the item you want. Either you're simply hoarding an alternate currency of high end items, or advancing too fast.
Travis also made a great point in the video..."some peoples' only experience with trading is that someone will jump into a game, drop a ton of stuff on the ground and leave." While this doesn't happen en masse, even friends giving friends huge upgrades does limit how much one finds (or is capable of finding) for oneself.
That's why trading is still being allowed between friends (unsure if that means people on each others' friends lists, or if it encompasses strangers in public games), because people like leveling characters and farming alongside one another. Yes, it is "social" to be in a trading game or a giveaway game or meet someone who hands you some massive upgrade, but in a way...it's more alluring and conducive to keep farming to watch a high powered character in action and get the item to drop yourself (or even alongside them), than to just have them hand you one of their 8 spares.
I'm starting to think thta probably the best way to handle this particular issue was to have 2 separate modes, a self-found mode and a free-market mode, and people can choose the lesser evil on their own. Even if it would severely segregate the community. Otherwise it's gonna be an eternal Trojans vs Greeks war.
Unless droprates are balanced for the lack of trading (and vice versa) then two modes would not really be different from just self-restricting yourself today.
The most efficient way to play would be to pick trade-mode, like using AH is the most efficient today.
you know!
Reminds me of that Cleric in NWN2..
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
That's exactly the point. We want more details. We rant because if we don't like what we see, we want 1 of 3 things:
1. Clarification on exactly what is being changed and why.
2. Blizzard to hear our complaints and consider reversing the change or modifying in a way that makes both parties happy.
3. To yell at the wind and vent our frustration.
It's easy to say that we should just shut up and be happy with the game the way it is but..that's what this forum is for. If you don't want to hear people complain about changes or ask for more information, I'm not sure why you're here.
I hated trading in D2. And I hated that trading was the only reliable way of getting the best items, because trading was so painful. It was my biggest problem with D2, and the AH solved that problem. If Blizzard isn't going to do something, anything, to replace the AH in D3 (and there's been no indication that they are going to), then I don't see myself doing much trading in D3 outside my circle of friends or people that I happen to be playing with at the time.
So, as long as self-found is becoming a reliable way to play the game, or at least better than it is currently, then I really don't care what they do to trading or binding or any of that. I'm pretty much just going to be playing to find items that benefit me and not worrying about getting items from others or finding items that are "worth" something (because without some kind of market system, how are we supposed to know what something is worth anyway?).
However, BoA on all high-end items would effectively kill off trade as far as the end-game goes, so I don't seem them putting much effort into trade if this change sticks. Which is why I say there's no indication that they are thinking that much about trade.
My personal opinion (at this early stage) is that set/legendary limited to very restricted trading is ok. Their focus seems to be solely on improving the loot system which means, in theory, you wouldn't need to hoard as many items and can recycle them into crafted goods or something else. Will it work? We'll have to wait to play the game in longer than 10 minute increments to find out.
Edit: To build off Miles' last post: if they achieve their goal and make "self found" rewarding on its own, there will actually be an increased incentive to group (higher chance of getting leg/set items with the ability to trade them).
To be fair, we gave them a good bit of time while waiting for Blizzcon. As far as itemization info goes, they didn't have much to deliver.
No offense taken, btw.