obviously all of the legendaries need to be able to roll dmg in the top tier range, but I'm hoping they introduce new legendaries or at least new abilities that make decisions more interesting instead of just "moar dps!"
Right now the only trade off I've experienced is CM where I have to balance IAS for freeze lock compared to crit dmg for dps.
obviously all of the legendaries need to be able to roll dmg in the top tier range
why everyone sees that and blizzard don´t? the obviously thing does not go with them.
i hope the new legendaries get to roll the top damage as well and not another patch like 1.0.4.
obviously all of the legendaries need to be able to roll dmg in the top tier range
why everyone sees that and blizzard don´t? the obviously thing does not go with them.
i hope the new legendaries get to roll the top damage as well and not another patch like 1.0.4.
+1, just because it's such a simple side to the itemization fix. If you equalize damage across comparable weapons, then the choice will be which unique property on legendaries you want to use, not which one will be the best paper dps.
I want legendaries to be like "Uniques" in diablo2, "low lvl" ones were used at high lvl, see Gaza, SoJ, Serpent skin
Yes i have dreams, please dont crush em with logic
But then you remove rare items right out of the equation. That's an immense part of the itemization.
I think rare's should be able to roll any stat in the game as long as its allowed on that type. So for instance a rare crossbow should be able to have 1.2k DPS 50% damage crit hit chance 10% crit Damage 100% IAS 11% and 200+Dex & 200+ VIT. Legendaries should have cool things about them that make them legendaries but sets are where things really just dont make sense right now.
As of now no set has a 5 set bonus. Why? they are literally discouraging users from getting the full set. And Tals is currently the shittiest one. Its bonuses should be combined and there should be better ones too. I could think of a million things for sets to do. For instance I saw this somewhere else Tals 5 set bonus makes your mirror image the spirit of Tal and it has 100% life and 100% weapon damage. Thats awesome, but it sort of corners you into using mirror image. I guess thats not a bad thing but it could be better for instance you have a 20% chance to summon the spirit of Tal while attacking; this spirit has the skills Blizzard Meteor shower, electrocute and wave of force. it has 100% weapon damage and 100% life. This would make sets super interesting. IK could have a 10% chance to cry to bul-kathos giving the user +200 Str + 100 vit and 25% increased damage for 10 seconds.Zuni's could have 30% chance to summon Zunis watch dog on crit hits and this dog has 100% life and does 150% damage as fire over 3 seconds. I can't believe crazy cool things liek this aren't already implemented. To me it seems natural for it to be this way.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
I like your ideas but i really hope Blizzard can pull this off without rendering our currently equipped items as totally useless.
Some legendaries should get buffed in terms of damage + sockets + the special affix for an example, the Hellrack should be able to roll higher damage, have 2 sockets and get a serious buff on the entangle thing it has.
Some legendaries should just get buffed to be equally as good as their counterpats. For an example, Messerschmidt's reaver should get a fixed socket and crit damage affix just like Skorn. This will provide diversity but won't make the Skorn weaker all of a sudden... Just provide us players with another option. Even appealing to the players who like to make their characters look cool is a good thing.
1 : there are leveling legendaries. They dont need lvl 60 stats, that would destroy the point.
2 : IMO it's ok that a perfectly rolled rare should still be better than a legendary. But I mean perfectly rolled, where ALL the attributes are exactly what you need and most of them are in the high end range of their stat variables.
Do some of you finally realize why fixing itemization isn't such an easy thing, and why the D3 developers aren't "stupid, ignorant, ARPG newb morons" (direct quote from a thread on the official forums)?
Some want legendaries to have the shit buffed out of them with the current affix system, some want new affixes that introduce additional viability compared to only needing certain stats on everything, some want legendaries and rares to be the same except for powerful "novelty" affixes on legendaries, some are worried about rares becoming obsolete, some don't want one legendary to be the required best-in-slot item, some get pissed off when they see intelligence on a crossbow, some are happy to see intelligence on a crossbow because they need more resistances.
It's not easy. No, the developers didn't exactly get it right, but they are trying. D2 had problems also - yes, yes, where it ended up was ultimately far better than where D3 is right now. But it was not perfect, it also had some real itemization problems, and it improved a lot when the expansion came out.
Some want legendaries to have the shit buffed out of them with the current affix system, some want new affixes that introduce additional viability compared to only needing certain stats on everything, some want legendaries and rares to be the same except for powerful "novelty" affixes on legendaries, some are worried about rares becoming obsolete, some don't want one legendary to be the required best-in-slot item, some get pissed off when they see intelligence on a crossbow, some are happy to see intelligence on a crossbow because they need more resistances.
I think all of those requests are reasonable except for this one: "some get pissed off when they see intelligence on a crossbow".
This will (or should imo) always exist to preserve the randomness. Not every item you find has to be good. The game will be even worse that way. I'm pretty sure 90% of the people trolling on the forums are teenagers who don't have the capability to think or say anything rational.
Some want legendaries to have the shit buffed out of them with the current affix system, some want new affixes that introduce additional viability compared to only needing certain stats on everything, some want legendaries and rares to be the same except for powerful "novelty" affixes on legendaries, some are worried about rares becoming obsolete, some don't want one legendary to be the required best-in-slot item, some get pissed off when they see intelligence on a crossbow, some are happy to see intelligence on a crossbow because they need more resistances.
I think all of those requests are reasonable except for this one: "some get pissed off when they see intelligence on a crossbow".
This will (or should imo) always exist to preserve the randomness. Not every item you find has to be good. The game will be even worse that way. I'm pretty sure 90% of the people trolling on the forums are teenagers who don't have the capability to think or say anything rational.
And i agree with what you said.
I'm going to have to disagree with you here. It's true that there should be randomness in the game in order to keep the treasure hunt going; but too much randomness, combined with a rather lackluster affix pool and low drop rates, just makes things frustrating for many people. So not "everything" should be so random either. Some items should, at the very least, have a higher chance to spawn the main stat of the class and the damage ranges shouldn't be so wide that it turns a huge portion of the weapons dropped into "crap".
the problem is that currently, some of the items if not most have no chance to roll good stats. This is what needs to be changed. I think that your approach will only harm the game.
The way I see it, legendries should be very powerful not in terms of raw stats it provides but rather it should offer unique and powerful new mechanics. Rares should still remain competitive as it can roll extreme amount of stats on a GG roll.
Your buff to legendaries is good. We need more competive weapons in term of raw damage (i would love that 1300 dps Buriza with that juicy freeze chance on top of Bola Stun), but legendaries should bring more than just power. They need more game changing properties instead of this "OMG CRIT DAM, SOCKET, 1200 DPS!!!!!!", and i hope Blizzard will think about something cool to add to our beloved sought-after oranges.
Doesn't that just create 20 items of each type which are essentially the same except for the name and how they look? Ok, a few items have some special features, but they are not the kind of killer features.
There's a pretty easy way to keep rares in the mix, Diablo 2 did this very well.
Rare circlets, Rare amulets, and Rare rings are all great examples of this out of Diablo 2. It's very simple, You make a nice item, take Mempo of Twilight for example. Mempo offers, 80 all res, 12% life, +200 int/dex/str, open socket, +crit chance, and 9% attack speed. Just to start off, this item is just too good. There is no competition, this item has every single stat any player could want, and there is no possible way for a rare to EVER be better, it's just that good. However, Let's say a rare could roll All res, % life, +200 int/dex/str, +crit chance, + attack speed, and +5% damage to x ability, like Diablo 2 could(It was actually +1-3 all skills).
The issue is there's no choice. This is poor itemization, they wanted to keep rares best in slot but then completely fucked it up. It was either rares are too much better than uniques, or they just simply over-compensate and at least one unique for every slot that's perfect. Mempo of Twilight, Tal rasha's armor, Nats boots/ring, Hellfire ring(at least this one has some randomization to it), Triumvirate, Chantodo's setup, Echoing Fury, WKL, Witching Hour, etc, etc, etc.
In Diablo 2, there were options, MEANINGFUL options. Did you want a Jeweler armor of the Whales? Did you want Enigma? Tyraels? A nice rare with good all around stats? Did you want a circlet with +2 to your class, All res, FCR, Str, etc on it? Andariels? Dream? Delirium? Vamp Gaze? etc.Did you want a Runeword weapon? What about one of the awesome uniques? Did you get a sweet roll on a rare weapon with near perfect stats?
The list goes on, I'm sure Diablo 3 will pan out over time, but currently you have a game that's easier than it was on day 1, with gear that is better than anything anyone could have gotten on day 1, and inflated stats galore. Itemization is a mess right now, and we're already coming to the point where uniques outclass rares almost everywhere.
http://www.viciouscattle.com/forum/thread-1024-1-1.html
Best in slot list for monk, it literally has TWO found items on it: a ring, and a weapon. Three crafted rares, and the rest are legendaries/sets. If you roll with Lightning monk, WLK > that rare, making it 1 found item on that list that is only good once you're paragon 100 - before that you'd want to use Hellfire. So, for a majority of players playing Lightning Monk, There are 0 found rares that are best in slot, and all of these legendaries/sets are fairly easy to come by, or cheap to buy - though obviously not with perfect stats :P.
I would be happy to see legendaries that make the game more interesting, but all of your suggested buffs on those items you so skillfully photoshopped are just straight dps boosts, which is boring and the reason so many people have lost interest in the game. Adding damage multipliers to everything does not make the game any better. They started to do this with affixes like the poison nova on Andy's or summoning a skeleton to fight for you on the litany of undaunted set, but they failed to make the procs strong enough to be useful. They need to take it another step and introduce more affixes like these.
Also, just adding an affix to an item slot that isn't normally available there is a really lazy way to itemize things. I'm speaking specifically to items like witching hour or Mempo of twilight with extra damage modifiers where they aren't usually found. It makes the items the best available, but its boring.
But then you remove rare items right out of the equation. That's an immense part of the itemization.
I think what's ideal would be Legendaries all having comparable average and maximum DPS, but rares having the capability to roll maybe 2-5% higher max DPS on perfect rolls. This way, you go for a rare if you need max DPS and you go for a legendary if you want the legendary bonuses.
For bonuses on legendaries, we definitely need to see more outside the box type stuff. How about a 1-handed mace weapon with -.2 to -.25 attacks per second, but a large bonus to min-max damage that also applied to the other weapon, if any, kind of like an anti-EF? How about a weapon which lets you teleport to enemies like the Monk's rune? How about a weapon which extends your AoE attack range slightly? What about a weapon which raises all per-hit proc chances?
There are plenty of things that could be done to make legendary weapons cooler -- they just need to do them.
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...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
Well if they buff all legendaries and MOAR DPS for all, then i'll uninstall.
The game is balanced as it is. I'm all for new legendaries to make it plausable for different builds rather then WW Barb/Archon Mage etc, but i'm not one for making me able to 1 shot everything on MP10 inferno on Hardcore.
Why people are always screaming for itemization? I believe 1000+ hours i've played (with 10 x lvl 60+ toons in graveyard hardcore) and not once have i complained about itemization. The game is balanced as it is, a tad boring till 1.0.8 comes out, but enjoyable.
Without the random weapon dmg ranges on Legendaries/Rares it would be a backflip on the current situation with 10000 x Skorn on AH with the same weapon dmg .... WTF is the point?
Means you would need to put a new commodity in the game as gold would become worthless as all items would be "essentially" the same.
No offence to all those kids/adults asking for itemization but -1 player if they buff the shit out of current items/future items and make the game easier then it presently is.
I think, i hope, i pray, that these changes are the first step to removing the AH completely from the game. The way the AH changes and (imo) ruins the game is quite large... I say, drastically reduce the rate at which good items drop, get rid of the AH, and start a ladder.
Well if they buff all legendaries and MOAR DPS for all, then i'll uninstall.
The game is balanced as it is. I'm all for new legendaries to make it plausable for different builds rather then WW Barb/Archon Mage etc, but i'm not one for making me able to 1 shot everything on MP10 inferno on Hardcore.
Why people are always screaming for itemization? I believe 1000+ hours i've played (with 10 x lvl 60+ toons in graveyard hardcore) and not once have i complained about itemization. The game is balanced as it is, a tad boring till 1.0.8 comes out, but enjoyable.
Without the random weapon dmg ranges on Legendaries/Rares it would be a backflip on the current situation with 10000 x Skorn on AH with the same weapon dmg .... WTF is the point?
Means you would need to put a new commodity in the game as gold would become worthless as all items would be "essentially" the same.
No offence to all those kids/adults asking for itemization but -1 player if they buff the shit out of current items/future items and make the game easier then it presently is.
this is not about buffing dps, this is about the enjoy different items, enjoy different legendary power, not just a skorn or Echoing Fury
in the hole game, lot of legendarys are there to provide diferent builds not to buff dps, you can have a skorn if you like or a maximus two hand weapon and you dps will be the same but in diferent ways, you can not just go for a skorn or a Echoing Fury and say (this items are the onlyones for end game) The word Random is not on D3 since most of the garbage legendarys has control to roll a minimum damage, we can have vavariety of items and same or little less damage but fun instead of having this garbage items wich have good afixes but reduces our damage for almost 100k dps, that is insane diference.
how can be posibble that only 3 weapon legendarys are good from 50? and the worst all of them are the same level.
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Here are just a few.
plz post any ideas of the actual garbage legendarys to make improvements.
Right now the only trade off I've experienced is CM where I have to balance IAS for freeze lock compared to crit dmg for dps.
why everyone sees that and blizzard don´t? the obviously thing does not go with them.
i hope the new legendaries get to roll the top damage as well and not another patch like 1.0.4.
+1, just because it's such a simple side to the itemization fix. If you equalize damage across comparable weapons, then the choice will be which unique property on legendaries you want to use, not which one will be the best paper dps.
Ha. Bagstone.
Yes i have dreams, please dont crush em with logic
I think rare's should be able to roll any stat in the game as long as its allowed on that type. So for instance a rare crossbow should be able to have 1.2k DPS 50% damage crit hit chance 10% crit Damage 100% IAS 11% and 200+Dex & 200+ VIT. Legendaries should have cool things about them that make them legendaries but sets are where things really just dont make sense right now.
As of now no set has a 5 set bonus. Why? they are literally discouraging users from getting the full set. And Tals is currently the shittiest one. Its bonuses should be combined and there should be better ones too. I could think of a million things for sets to do. For instance I saw this somewhere else Tals 5 set bonus makes your mirror image the spirit of Tal and it has 100% life and 100% weapon damage. Thats awesome, but it sort of corners you into using mirror image. I guess thats not a bad thing but it could be better for instance you have a 20% chance to summon the spirit of Tal while attacking; this spirit has the skills Blizzard Meteor shower, electrocute and wave of force. it has 100% weapon damage and 100% life. This would make sets super interesting. IK could have a 10% chance to cry to bul-kathos giving the user +200 Str + 100 vit and 25% increased damage for 10 seconds.Zuni's could have 30% chance to summon Zunis watch dog on crit hits and this dog has 100% life and does 150% damage as fire over 3 seconds. I can't believe crazy cool things liek this aren't already implemented. To me it seems natural for it to be this way.
Some legendaries should get buffed in terms of damage + sockets + the special affix for an example, the Hellrack should be able to roll higher damage, have 2 sockets and get a serious buff on the entangle thing it has.
Some legendaries should just get buffed to be equally as good as their counterpats. For an example, Messerschmidt's reaver should get a fixed socket and crit damage affix just like Skorn. This will provide diversity but won't make the Skorn weaker all of a sudden... Just provide us players with another option. Even appealing to the players who like to make their characters look cool is a good thing.
2 : IMO it's ok that a perfectly rolled rare should still be better than a legendary. But I mean perfectly rolled, where ALL the attributes are exactly what you need and most of them are in the high end range of their stat variables.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Some want legendaries to have the shit buffed out of them with the current affix system, some want new affixes that introduce additional viability compared to only needing certain stats on everything, some want legendaries and rares to be the same except for powerful "novelty" affixes on legendaries, some are worried about rares becoming obsolete, some don't want one legendary to be the required best-in-slot item, some get pissed off when they see intelligence on a crossbow, some are happy to see intelligence on a crossbow because they need more resistances.
It's not easy. No, the developers didn't exactly get it right, but they are trying. D2 had problems also - yes, yes, where it ended up was ultimately far better than where D3 is right now. But it was not perfect, it also had some real itemization problems, and it improved a lot when the expansion came out.
I think all of those requests are reasonable except for this one: "some get pissed off when they see intelligence on a crossbow".
This will (or should imo) always exist to preserve the randomness. Not every item you find has to be good. The game will be even worse that way. I'm pretty sure 90% of the people trolling on the forums are teenagers who don't have the capability to think or say anything rational.
And i agree with what you said.
the problem is that currently, some of the items if not most have no chance to roll good stats. This is what needs to be changed. I think that your approach will only harm the game.
Rare circlets, Rare amulets, and Rare rings are all great examples of this out of Diablo 2. It's very simple, You make a nice item, take Mempo of Twilight for example. Mempo offers, 80 all res, 12% life, +200 int/dex/str, open socket, +crit chance, and 9% attack speed. Just to start off, this item is just too good. There is no competition, this item has every single stat any player could want, and there is no possible way for a rare to EVER be better, it's just that good. However, Let's say a rare could roll All res, % life, +200 int/dex/str, +crit chance, + attack speed, and +5% damage to x ability, like Diablo 2 could(It was actually +1-3 all skills).
The issue is there's no choice. This is poor itemization, they wanted to keep rares best in slot but then completely fucked it up. It was either rares are too much better than uniques, or they just simply over-compensate and at least one unique for every slot that's perfect. Mempo of Twilight, Tal rasha's armor, Nats boots/ring, Hellfire ring(at least this one has some randomization to it), Triumvirate, Chantodo's setup, Echoing Fury, WKL, Witching Hour, etc, etc, etc.
In Diablo 2, there were options, MEANINGFUL options. Did you want a Jeweler armor of the Whales? Did you want Enigma? Tyraels? A nice rare with good all around stats? Did you want a circlet with +2 to your class, All res, FCR, Str, etc on it? Andariels? Dream? Delirium? Vamp Gaze? etc.Did you want a Runeword weapon? What about one of the awesome uniques? Did you get a sweet roll on a rare weapon with near perfect stats?
The list goes on, I'm sure Diablo 3 will pan out over time, but currently you have a game that's easier than it was on day 1, with gear that is better than anything anyone could have gotten on day 1, and inflated stats galore. Itemization is a mess right now, and we're already coming to the point where uniques outclass rares almost everywhere.
http://www.viciouscattle.com/forum/thread-1024-1-1.html
Best in slot list for monk, it literally has TWO found items on it: a ring, and a weapon. Three crafted rares, and the rest are legendaries/sets. If you roll with Lightning monk, WLK > that rare, making it 1 found item on that list that is only good once you're paragon 100 - before that you'd want to use Hellfire. So, for a majority of players playing Lightning Monk, There are 0 found rares that are best in slot, and all of these legendaries/sets are fairly easy to come by, or cheap to buy - though obviously not with perfect stats :P.
Also, just adding an affix to an item slot that isn't normally available there is a really lazy way to itemize things. I'm speaking specifically to items like witching hour or Mempo of twilight with extra damage modifiers where they aren't usually found. It makes the items the best available, but its boring.
I think what's ideal would be Legendaries all having comparable average and maximum DPS, but rares having the capability to roll maybe 2-5% higher max DPS on perfect rolls. This way, you go for a rare if you need max DPS and you go for a legendary if you want the legendary bonuses.
For bonuses on legendaries, we definitely need to see more outside the box type stuff. How about a 1-handed mace weapon with -.2 to -.25 attacks per second, but a large bonus to min-max damage that also applied to the other weapon, if any, kind of like an anti-EF? How about a weapon which lets you teleport to enemies like the Monk's rune? How about a weapon which extends your AoE attack range slightly? What about a weapon which raises all per-hit proc chances?
There are plenty of things that could be done to make legendary weapons cooler -- they just need to do them.
I think, i hope, i pray, that these changes are the first step to removing the AH completely from the game. The way the AH changes and (imo) ruins the game is quite large... I say, drastically reduce the rate at which good items drop, get rid of the AH, and start a ladder.
this is not about buffing dps, this is about the enjoy different items, enjoy different legendary power, not just a skorn or Echoing Fury
in the hole game, lot of legendarys are there to provide diferent builds not to buff dps, you can have a skorn if you like or a maximus two hand weapon and you dps will be the same but in diferent ways, you can not just go for a skorn or a Echoing Fury and say (this items are the onlyones for end game) The word Random is not on D3 since most of the garbage legendarys has control to roll a minimum damage, we can have vavariety of items and same or little less damage but fun instead of having this garbage items wich have good afixes but reduces our damage for almost 100k dps, that is insane diference.
how can be posibble that only 3 weapon legendarys are good from 50? and the worst all of them are the same level.