The ability to hack in D2 has nothing to do with its offline mode, it is simply an old game with an old server structure. Removing offline mode was not done to prevent hacking, and if it would make a return it would not mean the return of hacking. I just want to point that out.
You are actually completely wrong. For those of you who aren't familiar with game development/how games work, here's an important fact: an offline mode would require all game data and much of the server code to be stored directly in the game client.
One of the most important things about having no offline mode is that the client/server architecture can be constructed in a way that ensure the client gets very little information, and most of data is stored server side. I imagine things such as items, all player related data, abilities, stash, etc. to all be server-side information that the game client (user) only receives the bare minimum amount of information. This makes hacking, reverse engineering, etc. much more difficult (notice I said difficult, not impossible), as well as trackable/detectable by Blizzard.
You may tout is as DRM, what have you, but this decision was not made to prevent "piracy." All signs point to this decision being made to ensure that D3 is as secure as possible from hacking, botting, etc., and to prevent Auction House abuse. And really, this is no different that Guild Wars, or (the old) HoN, or any of the myriad of other Buy-To-Play multiplayer only games.
hmm maybe the people who raging ARE the hackers lol cause what the hell is the big deal? There is almost wifi EVERYWHERE, not to mention portable modems from verizon, sprint, comcast.
Yes, there is wifi everywhere. Generally not always free. modems from those carriers all cost like 30-40 bucks a month for a plan. I don't want to pay $50-60 for a game, then $30 a month for wifi so I can play it whenever I want. Yes, I probably spent 90% of my D2 playtime on B-net, but the other 10% was spent on single player, or doing LAN with friends. Now we literally can't do either. As people said earlier, what if your power goes out and you figure you can spend a bit playing on your laptop while you wait for it to get back on. There are many reasons I can think of playing a game without needing wifi.
Damn you D3, I will still buy you, but with much anger if you have to have internet to play single player.
Seriously? It's 2011, get an internet connection. Croikey.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions."
-Thomas Jefferson
By the way, Starcraft 2 was cracked at the same time as it was released.
Yes, but they only got the SP portion of the game I believe, and the only thing in the crack that they needed to change from the legit game is to turn off whatever it is within the game that requires you to be online(or internet access) when you install the game and turn off the thing that checks that you have internet connection each month.
Besides for that almost everything in the game was contain within the client side.
That is not the case for Diablo 3, a good portion will be kept on Blizzard side and away from the client. While this does not prevent them from making a cracked version, what it should do is slow them down, the question is how long will it slow them down. And until a cracked version is made, making hacks/bots and testing them to see if they work in the game alright will be a bit more risky.
But I would have to agree that eventually a cracked version of the game will be made, and eventually hacks/bots will be made. But that is just something we have to deal with in not only in this game, but in pretty much every game.
I figure out how to give my single player Witch Doctor a super awesome chest piece. Yay. I do not have access to my multiplayer Witch Doctor to give said super awesome chest piece to.
/Hypothetical
And that's why this argument doesn't hold water.
Ok how long did it take you to figure out how to do that??? And what ever tatics you used to do it would of gotten you how many bans if you were testing it online?? Now that you have an idea of what you need to do to make the hack work offline, means you have less work to do to make it work online.
I kinda skipped to the fourth page some in this discussion, but I read through the first two pages.
The reality is that online only WILL decrease the amount of effective hacks and bots on the official servers. It just will, this is a fact. The main reason that this will be the case is that if an account is caught hacking/botting it will likely be reported to blizzard (happens all the time in WoW, I've even reported some) and its a rather simple process to monitor the behavior of said account and ban it if it is indeed botting/hacking.
As for those people complaining about a lack of offline mode, honestly, are you in this century? Seriously, most everything is online now days. Even my console systems have online only games. Complaining that you cannot play Diablo 3 on your flight while you travel is kind of ridiculous. Its a minor inconvenience that you're using to complain. If that seriously is the only time you can play the game, then don't buy it.
Now, I understand that it will remove the ability for someone without an internet connection to play the game. However, from a business standpoint the amount of people that alienates is almost negligible. Most of the people that would purchase the game in the first place have access to the internet either at home or a nearby cafe. Heck, our mall has open wireless.
If you people actually paid attention to how games are evolving now days you'd see that the future of gaming is online. Computers will eventually be terminals to your online environment, almost exactly as Google has been pushing for with their Chrome OS. This is the reality of gaming and indeed computers in general. If you don't like it, I'm sorry...but its inevitable.
@Irrational: I actually disagree. What kept D2 alive was that there was not a viable alternative to the game really. I personally am glad that Blizzard will be able to monitor activity easily and ban those that bot. It won't catch everyone, but it'll catch many of them.
@Irrational: I actually disagree. What kept D2 alive was that there was not a viable alternative to the game really. I personally am glad that Blizzard will be able to monitor activity easily and ban those that bot. It won't catch everyone, but it'll catch many of them.
I kind of agree, there is really no game like d2 except for wow and i really don't want to have to group to get good items.
@sithslylar: There is Torchlight, but it doesn't offer multiplayer support. So, until Torchlight II is out, Diablo 2 is still kinda king in that genre.
@sithslylar: There is Torchlight, but it doesn't offer multiplayer support. So, until Torchlight II is out, Diablo 2 is still kinda king in that genre.
torchlight for me got very very old quick same quests same missions same everything......
I will trade a thousand people calling me a selfish asshole for my complete lack of caring about no offline in order to have hundreds of thousands of players on Bnet playing D3 with few if any bots / dupes / hacks / spammers.
If you haven't played D2 online in a few years, go run around for an hour and see what it's like when it's as out of control as it is.
I get some people don't want to play with others / socialize / etc., and for that you can play solo in private games online. Obviously that leaves the people without the internet access for the game, and I have sympathy for them but whether you agree it's Blizzard being greedy or you agree that this is simply how more and more games are working these days and that this will give us the best D3 experience as intended, this is the reality of D3. Just like WoW, some games are simply made now to be played online.
This client/server structure is what will give not just the majority of players the best experience but the overwhelming majority of them the best experience; not everyone can be pleased--does anyone really think Blizzard is going to risk having D3 fall into the same hacked/duped/spammed wasteland that D2 has become simply to satisfy a very small (if vocal) sliver of the player base? It wouldn't make any sense. Sure it makes them more money, but just look at it logically--the extra money is just gravy, a very happy byproduct that comes with giving the majority of D3 players what they want -- an online experience with a bedrock of genuine items and spam-less channels / games.
@Irrational: I actually disagree. What kept D2 alive was that there was not a viable alternative to the game really. I personally am glad that Blizzard will be able to monitor activity easily and ban those that bot. It won't catch everyone, but it'll catch many of them.
No it's alive because the PvP system is a lot of fun, despite it being so flawed. People bot to get items, they sell them through d2jsp and they eventually get really really good characters. MFing and killing things gets tiring after a while.
@Irrational: No, its not alive because PvP really. That may be the area of gameplay that some people focus on, but the reality is that the reason D2 hadn't died yet is because no viable alternative had been made. If one had been made, D2 would be a wasteland and only hardcore D2 fans would still play it (Kinda like old WC2).
Botting is just a means to an end in D2, aka making money or leveling a character. If it were restricted as it will be in D3, people would just go back to grinding for the items/levels instead because its where their customers are.
I can imaging the item grind getting tiring, which is why I'm glad there will be the dual AH system. As for killing mobs getting tiring, well, guess you'll need to find a different game then D3 as that is kinda the focus.
@Irrational: No, its not alive because PvP really. That may be the area of gameplay that some people focus on, but the reality is that the reason D2 hadn't died yet is because no viable alternative had been made. If one had been made, D2 would be a wasteland and only hardcore D2 fans would still play it (Kinda like old WC2).
Botting is just a means to an end in D2, aka making money or leveling a character. If it were restricted as it will be in D3, people would just go back to grinding for the items/levels instead because its where their customers are.
I can imaging the item grind getting tiring, which is why I'm glad there will be the dual AH system. As for killing mobs getting tiring, well, guess you'll need to find a different game then D3 as that is kinda the focus.
If there were no bots in Diablo 2, it would be dead. I can put money on this.
@Irrational: I'd only agree to the account that likely 50-60% of the playbase of Diablo 2 currently are bots. Last time I played Diablo 2 it was regular to see bot Baal runs done by hammerdins. When most of the playbase is bot, of course the game would be rather 'dead' without them. The remaining players were mostly hardcore people that have played for years and new players that got the game cheap. I heard from another poster that the current economy is just garbage. Prices for items are very low, etc.
Bots don't make for a better game. They actually make for a worse one. By removing bots, creating item/gold sinks in game, and giving the average player an outlet to sell their items (RMAH), Blizzard will likely create in-game economy that is rather self-sustaining.
The big things are having both item AND gold sinks though. If nothing takes items out of the system, then eventually the system will become stagnant and bloated with legendaries. I am pretty sure that Blizzard grasps this very well and we'll see a rather nice economy form as the years progress.
Edit: Sorry OP for this kinda straying from the main topic a bit.
No offence, but since D3 is now an ONLINE only game, they maybe you shouldn't get .. There's TONS and tons of other ARPG games out there with offline mode ..
That..was one of the most selfish and rude posts I've seen on Diablofans.com...
Ok how long did it take you to figure out how to do that??? And what ever tatics you used to do it would of gotten you how many bans if you were testing it online?? Now that you have an idea of what you need to do to make the hack work offline, means you have less work to do to make it work online.
So what you are saying is that it makes it easier to make a hack work online, even though you still have zero access to the online characters?
Ever wonder why the charms you would see on Battle.net Open with the +99 to Fireball were never on Battle.net closed? Yup, because you didn't have access.
It's that whole thing where offline characters are client side and online characters are server side thing.
As for those people complaining about a lack of offline mode, honestly, are you in this century? Seriously, most everything is online now days. Even my console systems have online only games. Complaining that you cannot play Diablo 3 on your flight while you travel is kind of ridiculous. Its a minor inconvenience that you're using to complain. If that seriously is the only time you can play the game, then don't buy it.
Or complaining that you cannot play Diablo 3 at home in, say, the Philippines like the previous poster said is ridiculous, right? A minor inconvenience that you simply cannot play, right?
Now, I understand that it will remove the ability for someone without an internet connection to play the game. However, from a business standpoint the amount of people that alienates is almost negligible. Most of the people that would purchase the game in the first place have access to the internet either at home or a nearby cafe. Heck, our mall has open wireless.
How do you look somebody in the eye and tell them they are negligible? I'm just curious...
@Irrational: I actually disagree. What kept D2 alive was that there was not a viable alternative to the game really. I personally am glad that Blizzard will be able to monitor activity easily and ban those that bot. It won't catch everyone, but it'll catch many of them.
I kind of agree, there is really no game like d2 except for wow and i really don't want to have to group to get good items.
I will trade a thousand people calling me a selfish asshole for my complete lack of caring about no offline in order to have hundreds of thousands of players on Bnet playing D3 with few if any bots / dupes / hacks / spammers.
Pity that alienating a large portion of the Diablo fanbase doesn't get rid of bots/dupes/hacks/spammers, right?
I have sympathy for them but whether you agree it's Blizzard being greedy or you agree that this is simply how more and more games are working these days and that this will give us the best D3 experience as intended, this is the reality of D3. Just like WoW, some games are simply made now to be played online.
Games like WoW, Rift, DCUO, EQ, etc, are persistent worlds. You close a game in Diablo/Diablo 2/Torchlight/etc, and that world is gone. So, yea, at least Blizzard North understood that non-persistant worlds do not have the requirement of being online.
This client/server structure is what will give not just the majority of players the best experience but the overwhelming majority of them the best experience; not everyone can be pleased--does anyone really think Blizzard is going to risk having D3 fall into the same hacked/duped/spammed wasteland that D2 has become simply to satisfy a very small (if vocal) sliver of the player base? It wouldn't make any sense. Sure it makes them more money, but just look at it logically--the extra money is just gravy, a very happy byproduct that comes with giving the majority of D3 players what they want -- an online experience with a bedrock of genuine items and spam-less channels / games.
Actually, best I can tell, the money (as well as the drm) is the main issue, happy customers like you are a byproduct.
@LinkX: Unfortunately for the guy who cannot play at all because they have no internet, they are out of luck. I'm not going to fight for offline mode when it would add time to the development of the game and the target audience for said game will not be affect. Yes, some people lose out. Hate to be cold, but its like saying someone should be able to play WoW offline. The focus of Diablo 3 is smashing through the story with other players. In addition, the RMAH will likely be the primary funding for regular additional content, staff to handle bots/hacks, etc. Oh yeah, on the point of additional content anyone without a connection to the internet would be unable to update their game regularly and as such miss out on that content as well.
Honestly, in this day and age, having internet is almost a must for gaming. I can look at someone and say sorry, but that is just a fact.
Oh and on a note of alternatives for D2, I've never played Metin, but Dungeon Siege doesn't have as nice of a multiplayer community as D2 does. Torchlight doesn't have multiplayer at all. Silk Road Online is a MMO. And again, I've never even heard of Titan Quest.
You mean it will remove hacking just like in SC2, where maphacks almost don't exist and it took a long time for hackers to develop one? Oh wait, there were maphacks and trainers back in the 1st week of the beta. And maphacks, drophacks and even ai bots that play for you are still out there in the open, and there's nothing Blizzard can do about it, cause their Warden system is so limited that it's easy to update a hack to be detectable-proof.
Get your facts straight before spilling stuff like this out in the open. Online-only mode is there for only 1 reason, and only blind fanboys don't see it. I for one will be able to play whether it's online or not, but lan parties will never be the same if server stability can be measured by SC2. Plus, I'm sure a couple of friends won't play it because they hate playing stuff with 200 ms ping due to bad servers.
The GSL has been delayed more than once because Blizz screwed up server maintenance, and that's a "certified" tournament, happening WITH Blizzard's support, with a sh*tload of money as the prize, and they still managed to screw up.
The entire point is that the 'large portion' of the playerbase you mentioned is actually not that large, or they wouldn't be doing it. Even if Blizzard was acting out of an infinitely hungry engine of pure greed, it's 100% entirely in their best interest to satisfy and entice as many players as possible to buy and play the game. They'd never alienate a 'large portion' of the playerbase because that would lose them money. Obviously what remains is the fact that the playerbase willing to not buy D3 because of no offline play is actually small enough to not be significant. They are trading the happiness and money from a small portion of the base in order to make a markedly improved experience for the majority of players; I guess I'm just confused as to why this makes Blizzard a bad company or even unlikeable.
The claim that they 'don't care' about the players is actually technically impossible to be true. Even if all they want to do is make money, they inherently are forced to care about the players. Just because they're turning their back on a small percentage of the players only factually means they're focusing their attention on a different subset of players--the vast majority, in fact.
Just because you're part of the small % doesn't mean you speak the truth when you complain and claim to speak for 'many players'. The reality is literally the opposite of that. As someone in that minority you have every right to be upset and to voice your complaint(s), but to do so maturely and accurately I believe means accepting you're not necessarily in possession of all of the truth when it comes to Blizzard's decision making processes.
And yes, of course in the process of making money happy customers like myself are a byproduct--don't you understand it's a completely cyclical / symbiotic process? Blizzard wants happy customers because happy customers are paying customers, and of course if I'm paying that means I'm happy with the game, Blizzard is happy with my money, Blizzard is thus happy that I'm happy because it makes them money which in turn makes them happy, etc.
As far as the persistent world aspect, you might do well to remember that in D3 the Auction House does actually serve as a facet of gameplay that is absolutely a persistent world unto itself--you logout, your auctions keep going, your auctions have minor ripple effects (and are themselves affected by) other auctions of offline players, bidding by online players, etc. The argument that the client / server (always online) structure of D3 serves, among other purposes, to protect this persistent aspect of the D3 world is an important one and one you ignore at your own argument's peril.
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A dripping sword / removes all memories.
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Great post, +rep.
Seriously? It's 2011, get an internet connection. Croikey.
-Thomas Jefferson
Yes, but they only got the SP portion of the game I believe, and the only thing in the crack that they needed to change from the legit game is to turn off whatever it is within the game that requires you to be online(or internet access) when you install the game and turn off the thing that checks that you have internet connection each month.
Besides for that almost everything in the game was contain within the client side.
That is not the case for Diablo 3, a good portion will be kept on Blizzard side and away from the client. While this does not prevent them from making a cracked version, what it should do is slow them down, the question is how long will it slow them down. And until a cracked version is made, making hacks/bots and testing them to see if they work in the game alright will be a bit more risky.
But I would have to agree that eventually a cracked version of the game will be made, and eventually hacks/bots will be made. But that is just something we have to deal with in not only in this game, but in pretty much every game.
Ok how long did it take you to figure out how to do that??? And what ever tatics you used to do it would of gotten you how many bans if you were testing it online?? Now that you have an idea of what you need to do to make the hack work offline, means you have less work to do to make it work online.
:Water Held:
The reality is that online only WILL decrease the amount of effective hacks and bots on the official servers. It just will, this is a fact. The main reason that this will be the case is that if an account is caught hacking/botting it will likely be reported to blizzard (happens all the time in WoW, I've even reported some) and its a rather simple process to monitor the behavior of said account and ban it if it is indeed botting/hacking.
As for those people complaining about a lack of offline mode, honestly, are you in this century? Seriously, most everything is online now days. Even my console systems have online only games. Complaining that you cannot play Diablo 3 on your flight while you travel is kind of ridiculous. Its a minor inconvenience that you're using to complain. If that seriously is the only time you can play the game, then don't buy it.
Now, I understand that it will remove the ability for someone without an internet connection to play the game. However, from a business standpoint the amount of people that alienates is almost negligible. Most of the people that would purchase the game in the first place have access to the internet either at home or a nearby cafe. Heck, our mall has open wireless.
If you people actually paid attention to how games are evolving now days you'd see that the future of gaming is online. Computers will eventually be terminals to your online environment, almost exactly as Google has been pushing for with their Chrome OS. This is the reality of gaming and indeed computers in general. If you don't like it, I'm sorry...but its inevitable.
I kind of agree, there is really no game like d2 except for wow and i really don't want to have to group to get good items.
torchlight for me got very very old quick same quests same missions same everything......
If you haven't played D2 online in a few years, go run around for an hour and see what it's like when it's as out of control as it is.
I get some people don't want to play with others / socialize / etc., and for that you can play solo in private games online. Obviously that leaves the people without the internet access for the game, and I have sympathy for them but whether you agree it's Blizzard being greedy or you agree that this is simply how more and more games are working these days and that this will give us the best D3 experience as intended, this is the reality of D3. Just like WoW, some games are simply made now to be played online.
This client/server structure is what will give not just the majority of players the best experience but the overwhelming majority of them the best experience; not everyone can be pleased--does anyone really think Blizzard is going to risk having D3 fall into the same hacked/duped/spammed wasteland that D2 has become simply to satisfy a very small (if vocal) sliver of the player base? It wouldn't make any sense. Sure it makes them more money, but just look at it logically--the extra money is just gravy, a very happy byproduct that comes with giving the majority of D3 players what they want -- an online experience with a bedrock of genuine items and spam-less channels / games.
No it's alive because the PvP system is a lot of fun, despite it being so flawed. People bot to get items, they sell them through d2jsp and they eventually get really really good characters. MFing and killing things gets tiring after a while.
Botting is just a means to an end in D2, aka making money or leveling a character. If it were restricted as it will be in D3, people would just go back to grinding for the items/levels instead because its where their customers are.
I can imaging the item grind getting tiring, which is why I'm glad there will be the dual AH system. As for killing mobs getting tiring, well, guess you'll need to find a different game then D3 as that is kinda the focus.
If there were no bots in Diablo 2, it would be dead. I can put money on this.
"That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
Bots don't make for a better game. They actually make for a worse one. By removing bots, creating item/gold sinks in game, and giving the average player an outlet to sell their items (RMAH), Blizzard will likely create in-game economy that is rather self-sustaining.
The big things are having both item AND gold sinks though. If nothing takes items out of the system, then eventually the system will become stagnant and bloated with legendaries. I am pretty sure that Blizzard grasps this very well and we'll see a rather nice economy form as the years progress.
Edit: Sorry OP for this kinda straying from the main topic a bit.
That..was one of the most selfish and rude posts I've seen on Diablofans.com...
And I've been here for about 4 years...
Damn man...
So what you are saying is that it makes it easier to make a hack work online, even though you still have zero access to the online characters?
Ever wonder why the charms you would see on Battle.net Open with the +99 to Fireball were never on Battle.net closed? Yup, because you didn't have access.
It's that whole thing where offline characters are client side and online characters are server side thing.
Or complaining that you cannot play Diablo 3 at home in, say, the Philippines like the previous poster said is ridiculous, right? A minor inconvenience that you simply cannot play, right?
How do you look somebody in the eye and tell them they are negligible? I'm just curious...
Quick check with Alternateto.com:
Pity that alienating a large portion of the Diablo fanbase doesn't get rid of bots/dupes/hacks/spammers, right?
Games like WoW, Rift, DCUO, EQ, etc, are persistent worlds. You close a game in Diablo/Diablo 2/Torchlight/etc, and that world is gone. So, yea, at least Blizzard North understood that non-persistant worlds do not have the requirement of being online.
Actually, best I can tell, the money (as well as the drm) is the main issue, happy customers like you are a byproduct.
Honestly, in this day and age, having internet is almost a must for gaming. I can look at someone and say sorry, but that is just a fact.
Oh and on a note of alternatives for D2, I've never played Metin, but Dungeon Siege doesn't have as nice of a multiplayer community as D2 does. Torchlight doesn't have multiplayer at all. Silk Road Online is a MMO. And again, I've never even heard of Titan Quest.
Get your facts straight before spilling stuff like this out in the open. Online-only mode is there for only 1 reason, and only blind fanboys don't see it. I for one will be able to play whether it's online or not, but lan parties will never be the same if server stability can be measured by SC2. Plus, I'm sure a couple of friends won't play it because they hate playing stuff with 200 ms ping due to bad servers.
The GSL has been delayed more than once because Blizz screwed up server maintenance, and that's a "certified" tournament, happening WITH Blizzard's support, with a sh*tload of money as the prize, and they still managed to screw up.
The entire point is that the 'large portion' of the playerbase you mentioned is actually not that large, or they wouldn't be doing it. Even if Blizzard was acting out of an infinitely hungry engine of pure greed, it's 100% entirely in their best interest to satisfy and entice as many players as possible to buy and play the game. They'd never alienate a 'large portion' of the playerbase because that would lose them money. Obviously what remains is the fact that the playerbase willing to not buy D3 because of no offline play is actually small enough to not be significant. They are trading the happiness and money from a small portion of the base in order to make a markedly improved experience for the majority of players; I guess I'm just confused as to why this makes Blizzard a bad company or even unlikeable.
The claim that they 'don't care' about the players is actually technically impossible to be true. Even if all they want to do is make money, they inherently are forced to care about the players. Just because they're turning their back on a small percentage of the players only factually means they're focusing their attention on a different subset of players--the vast majority, in fact.
Just because you're part of the small % doesn't mean you speak the truth when you complain and claim to speak for 'many players'. The reality is literally the opposite of that. As someone in that minority you have every right to be upset and to voice your complaint(s), but to do so maturely and accurately I believe means accepting you're not necessarily in possession of all of the truth when it comes to Blizzard's decision making processes.
And yes, of course in the process of making money happy customers like myself are a byproduct--don't you understand it's a completely cyclical / symbiotic process? Blizzard wants happy customers because happy customers are paying customers, and of course if I'm paying that means I'm happy with the game, Blizzard is happy with my money, Blizzard is thus happy that I'm happy because it makes them money which in turn makes them happy, etc.
As far as the persistent world aspect, you might do well to remember that in D3 the Auction House does actually serve as a facet of gameplay that is absolutely a persistent world unto itself--you logout, your auctions keep going, your auctions have minor ripple effects (and are themselves affected by) other auctions of offline players, bidding by online players, etc. The argument that the client / server (always online) structure of D3 serves, among other purposes, to protect this persistent aspect of the D3 world is an important one and one you ignore at your own argument's peril.