Kenzai, you have bleached my brain with 500 posts repeating the exact same invalid argument based on your taste, and comparing D3 with D2 and WoW, further based on ONE pair of pauldrons displayed in the trailer. If it is really that bothersome then please, avoid using that piece of armour if it ever happens to drop for you, and then both you will be happy and we can have a rest.
Since you seem to always be ready and eager to smite everyone with your infallible wisdom which proves that only your opinion matters and everyone else is wrong, can you please answer this: why exactly does D3 need to have realistic armour, or comfortable armour or whatever your argument was actually since it doesn't seem to make any sense. But whatever it is, why exactly does it have to be like that? Just don't bring up D2 or WoW since that's completely beside the point.
Then I'd like you to ask yourself this: why are you continuing to go on? What drives you?
a) Satisfaction from proving to everyone that they are wrong and you are right
Trying to make a difference (which you already know you can't)
c) It helps you loose tension by expressing your dissatisfaction on everyday basis to no end
Kenzai, you have bleached my brain with 500 posts repeating the exact same invalid argument based on your taste, and comparing D3 with D2 and WoW, further based on ONE pair of pauldrons displayed in the trailer. If it is really that bothersome then please, avoid using that piece of armour if it ever happens to drop for you, and then both you will be happy and we can have a rest.
Since you seem to always be ready and eager to smite everyone with your infallible wisdom which proves that only your opinion matters and everyone else is wrong, can you please answer this: why exactly does D3 need to have realistic armour, or comfortable armour or whatever your argument was actually since it doesn't seem to make any sense. But whatever it is, why exactly does it have to be like that? Just don't bring up D2 or WoW since that's completely beside the point.
Then I'd like you to ask yourself this: why are you continuing to go on? What drives you?
a) Satisfaction from proving to everyone that they are wrong and you are right
Trying to make a difference (which you already know you can't)
c) It helps you loose tension by expressing your dissatisfaction on everyday basis to no end
I am really fascinated and would like to know.
I note this and I will shout some insult at you when they show more screenshot of shoulderpads and more pieces of armor with huge shoulderpads.
I note this and I will shout some insult at you when they show more screenshot of shoulderpads and more pieces of armor with huge shoulderpads.
Why, what's wrong with big shoulderpads?
Besides it's not my fault if Blizzard makes another pair that looks like those or if you have some mental problem and can't stand certain appearances of armour. I was just pointing out that someone around here is generalizing things a bit too much, as if he knows more than anyone else does on the subject, and all that is based on one trivial example which doesn't indicate a thing.
Last time I checked, there was a new screenshot circulating showing female barbarian with tiny shoulderpads, and I didn't start humping your leg about it.
Ive really tried hard to make you understand the giant differences of shoulder pads in D2 and what we saw in the D3 trailer...
You're trying to get me to see a difference in shoulder armor that YOU see. You've had to make up differences in order to complain for the most part.
And also about the necro, something written by ME in my previous posts:
"All the pauldrons in D2 could be designed in real-life and they would really look like that. (Ok, maybe not a skull as a shoulder pad like the necro has or a claw like the druid has. Concentrate on the barb and pally.)"
So you admit that D2 has some fantasy shoulder armor,...finally.
YOU said something about "Blizard's realism" but what we saw in the trailer isnt even something like "fantasy realism", the equipment pieces floating through each other (just one example) is nothing else than a graphical problem. (Maybe not "problem" but i think its obvious what i mean.)
Nope. It's not a problem with graphics. It's quite common for 3-D games with all kinds of armor to wear to have such a set up. Secondly, you misunderstood me - I was speaking about the reality that Blizzard has personally created for D3. It is there world. So that creation is their reality.
Why? Its a game from the same franchise and the game aspect we are discussing currently was good in that game.
Then don't tell me that you don't want D3 to be the same as D2.
I think you just dont get what "reality" can mean.
No, I get it. I think you don't understand that a game doesn't need to meet a BS standard of reality as designed by YOU - unless it's your game.
If theres some weird stuff with the physics in the game, like a bug or something you know (dont know how to exactly explain), its both un-realistic and bad for immersiveness.
There isn't a problem like this in the gameplay video.
But if you have demons and undead and dragons and magic etc. in a game, its un-realistic but can very well remain immersive as long as its designed properly.
You mean designed according to your tastes.
You should stop cutting out parts of a paragraph.
Read the rest and come back.
You should stop arguing just for the sake of arguing. I know you like to think that you've devised this great idea that will somehow make everyone happy, but in truth you are pushing for your vision and your agenda to be implemented in Diablo - which is never going to happen. Of course you're going to keep going and going. It's your opinion and you feel that you can justify it as something D3 needs when in fact it doesn't.
Go listen to the newest Blizzcast. Listen to Jay Wilson explain the art direction on D3 and how they worked on it for 2 friggin' years and came to the best outcome that they could.
The D3 barb has armor parts that are so big and bulky that they even clash in some animations. When zoomed in, some armor parts like the horns on the girdle and the pauldrons stick out, and they look over-exaggerated almost like a smaller WoW-style shoulder pad. Also the shoulder pads are floating over the shoulders like if it wouldnt be a part of the armor.
Some environmental objects have somehow the same problem, so its not only about some specific equipment part of some class.
Diablo was always a serious game with totally immersive models, animations and environment so the D3 style models are affecting the Diablo feel in a bad way, for someone who cares about those graphical aspects.
Someone whos always concentrating on gameplay or something else thats not related with graphics wouldnt care, but there are lots of people who care about graphic style.
However, its possible to change/improve those models (and hopefully some animations and other things too, but thats irrevelant) without touching the art style and without raising system requirements. The laziest solution would be sizing some armor parts down (mainly the horns on the girdle and the pauldrons) but i doubt that this would be a good solution so its best someone comes out with a good, simplistic solution.
I think the best solution is to leave the art and the style as is. I've really yet to notice any kind of collision issues with the armor, and I've watched that HD gameplay trailer at least 20 times now. So I wonder where exactly you see this happening.
Your reasoning for saying diablo3 is less immersive is clearly only because in your opinion diablo1 and 2 are more immersive, Which btw, is pretty much impossible to know unless you actually sit down and play the game. So I'm going to assume that you are just saying D3 is less immersive... (I don't even think you really know what that word means.) because in your opinion diablo2 had environments, armor, and animation you liked and D3 doesn't.
The coherence of style, story, and design along with gameplay is what makes a game immersive, and I think we can safely assume Diablo3 is definitely not lacking in these respects. You might not like the style or the design, but that does not mean the game is not presented well or provides an immersive experience.
The simple solution is to just keep things as they are, maybe add shaders to the armor, and parts of the environment to give a more tactile quality to the surfaces. These things can all still be accomplished later on in development, and there might even be plans to do so, as such features are usually added in much later in the development cycle.
That being said though I think it's hard to argue that this game does not have a cohesive style, and is not presented well, or that the D3 armor is an more ridiculous looking than some of the necro armor, or even the barbarian armor for D2, not to mention that some of the color pallet's found on the armor in D2 were completely over the top.
My feeling is that you are holding on to some mental image of how Diablo3 should look like, and when Blizzards version didn't match your own, you felt that they had some how ruined the Diablo name. This of course is just your opinion.
Though they talked about the situation numerous times and now theyll change the dungeons a bit, so think they still care in some way.
No they won't. They said in earliest interviews that they were going to go back and add props, stains, etc to dungeons, later as the development goes. It's nothing to do with the petition or any such faggotry.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
After the trap scene, where the barb wears armor the first time, and the cam is zooming in.
Its clearly seen that the pauldrons clash with the head.
If the Necro would lift his right arm, the spike would go right through his head. But that's hard to tell on the tiny 2D sprite.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
A gameplay trailer with the barb is pretty much enaugh. No need to play it, as immersiveness is mostly about visuals.
And by 'immersive visuals', you mean fluorescent green, fluorescent blue, purple and pink armour and weapons in D2, right?
Quote from "Kenzai" »
If they explain how some magical device works, by using some funky magical terms, it may be immersive, but not when i see some visual aspect thats about the graphical quality or something like that. It reminds you that its all just a game. =P
And pink zombies don't remind you that it is just a game. Okay.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
Yes, some minor changes are what im damn craving for. Just some minor improvements in models, animations and maybe environment and lighting...
You cannot selfishly insist that changing certain things to your standards is necessarily 'improvements'... You need to get some things straight in your mind.
I really cant do anything if you dont see the difference.
Exactly. Fantasy armor is allowed to be large and intimidating.
So what you say is basically: "Diablo 2 has big shoulder pads, Diablo 3 has big shoulder pads and World of Warcraft has big shoulder pads. Its all the same."
Yup. ALL of it is fantasy armor. All of it is typical of a fantasy game.
Im telling that since many posts.
Exactly. So big armor falls under the fantasy genre. So it's allowed, right? So will shrinking down the pads to a certain size make people on the whole happier? Nope.
Just tell me that WoW style shoulder pads arent a problem either (in Diablo) and we know what you think.
This is what I've been saying. Big shoulder armor on a freakin' He-man barbarian isn't uncommon. It has nothing to do with WoW.
I dont say Diablo 3 is like WoW, try to get the point.
Constantly with the WoW references...constantly with the comparisons to "WoW shoulders".
You obviously dont understant examples. I tried to explain the difference between totally relistic and "immersive but not really realistic".
I wasnt talking about D3.
It's just easier for you if you can tell yourself that I don't get it, right?
Your talking about the art direction again. That got old bud. I already explained how what i say doesnt mean changing the art-direction.
Actually, a change in shoulder pad design is essentially a change in art direction. You want a standard of reality to be met from the art direction, which would require heavy changes. How about instead, if you don't like certain shoulder armor in the game you just refrain from using it?
Its not about D3 needing something. Its about what some people like to see. And if Blizz doesnt care about those people at all, f' it.
They care, but they don't care about meeting ridiculous stipulations on shoulder armor size and movement ability.
If anything I think the barbarian shoulder pad size could be shrunk a bit, and maybe it will be.
@whoever said shrinking shoulder pads wouldn't make it better: I don't think anyone would complain that should pads are too small. If they were shrunk, there would be no complaints, since no one really likes big pads. Not even Bashiok.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
@whoever said shrinking shoulder pads wouldn't make it better: I don't think anyone would complain that should pads are too small. If they were shrunk, there would be no complaints, since no one really likes big pads. Not even Bashiok.
I think people would complain if the shoulder pads were to small, just like people complain now that they are to big. I don't really care if the make the shoulder pads a little bit smaller, however this really is more of nit picking than anything else.
Wow... And i dont mean World of Warcraft. Just wow.
You really think armor is spiced into two catagories as "fantasy" and "real-life"?
Anything thats fantasy can be big as shit no matter what style of game we are talking about?
Hey, hear that everyone! Creepsville says this or this isnt a problem in Diablo because its all fantasy shoulder pads and not only in WoW. :thumbsup:
Yes, because WoW is the most famous game that has such aspects. Maybe i should say Knight Online shoulder pads or Mu-Online shoulder pads instead???
Well you dont get it, thats the fact.
Nope. Maybe some displacement of the shoulder pads, or just cutting the size down. Otherwise they may just make something with the same art style that looks and is placed etc. different.
Those are some specialities of good shoulder pad designs for a serious RPG.
You really like the over-exaggerated MMO shoulder pads dont you?
If its all that unimportant why not just have something like this: http://www.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2007/october/pl_pauldrons_stone_resolve.jpg
Because they look "intimidating". :rolleyes:
I hope you understand now how much different fantasy products can be. Saying they all are the same is like saying a Ferrari and an Opel is the same. (Really dont know how good that example was.)
You're opinions have been proven not as something better for the game, but only a matter of taste that won't make people happier with the game. Your points have become inane to the point to where all you can do is type "lol" and claim that I don't understand.
Your droning about your warped interpretation of Diablo shoulder pads has become somewhat of a parody of how far gamers will go to nitpick the very things they claim to be fans of.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If large shoulder pads don't take you out of the experience of the game then they probably aren't too big. They don't distract. They keep the fantasy alive. Therefore, you have no real changes that need to be made. You don't know what's better. You don't know what immersive even means. You know this, and yet you keep droning and misunderstanding most of what people type to you, all the while taking jabs at them. This shows me that you aren't worth speaking to - again.
I'm going to put you on ignore again. Your huge mind numbing posts that show your lack of understanding what people type to you and your presentations of your personal taste as if it is something that will make everyone happy with Diablo disgusts me. It's childish. And I'm done telling you what's up only to have you planning your next ramble out before you're even done reading what I'm actually saying.
And I really don't see people demanding bigger shoulder pads. It would be too random, like, what would they need them for? Most of the time (orcs in Warcraft, Barbarian in Diablo) characters seem to wear large shoulder pads so that they seem to be armored while still showing off their abs or cleavage (in females case).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
Bashiok is only a community manager which means he has absolutely no control over the design of the game. His opinions are exactly the same as ours. Don't take his words for valid merit that Blizzard may or may not condone adjustments of the pauldrons.
There has and continues to be a very strong push towards keeping the art stylized, but realistic, and this is especially true for the size of armor and weapons.
I think people see the barbarian's shoulder pads and then decide that it's an exaggerated art style, which simply isn't the case. The artists have had a very specific commitment to keeping items very much based in a realistic style, size, and appearance. Or at least as much as is appropriate for a fantasy game. Look at the hands, feet, head, facial features, etc. and you'll see that they're being kept at a very realistic proportion.
If anything I think the barbarian shoulder pad size could be shrunk a bit, and maybe it will be, but a single slot on a single class really shouldn't be used to form an opinion when there are plenty of other pieces to examine that show the contrary.
I understand Bashiok's level, but he is the one who brought the complaints about the vanishing bodies to the dev's attention.
Also, what Bashiok is saying it %100 correct about the character models. Just tone down the Shoulder pads (and those blasted horns:P)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
Kenzai, rare monsters and weapons tend to be in fluorescent pastels regardless of the being poisoned etc. You should refresh your memory.
Barbarian shoulderpads in D2 clashed with the helmet that was 2.5 times taller than his actual head (counting the ridiculously oversized horns) even when he just stands still and doesn't move. I can provide screenshots if you wish.
And also thanks for giving me this laugh with your "Oh,...wow.". I love you too.
Can I ask you one thing? Are you affected by tunnel vision? Given most of your replies to other members, they all focus on and attack one or two words. Apparently you also dodged whatever else Bashiok had to say about the large pauldrons whereby
(...) a single slot on a single class really shouldn't be used to form an opinion when there are plenty of other pieces to examine that show the contrary.
Kenzai, don't take Bashiok's words as the mandate that now a Blizzard representative has said it, it will be changed. He is a community manager which means he does PR control. I doubt if his position has any type of power in changing the size of shoulder pads. He can probably pass onto the design team about the forum's opinions but regardless of that, his words are amongst common grounds to both you and I.
Since you seem to always be ready and eager to smite everyone with your infallible wisdom which proves that only your opinion matters and everyone else is wrong, can you please answer this: why exactly does D3 need to have realistic armour, or comfortable armour or whatever your argument was actually since it doesn't seem to make any sense. But whatever it is, why exactly does it have to be like that? Just don't bring up D2 or WoW since that's completely beside the point.
Then I'd like you to ask yourself this: why are you continuing to go on? What drives you?
a) Satisfaction from proving to everyone that they are wrong and you are right
Trying to make a difference (which you already know you can't)
c) It helps you loose tension by expressing your dissatisfaction on everyday basis to no end
I am really fascinated and would like to know.
I note this and I will shout some insult at you when they show more screenshot of shoulderpads and more pieces of armor with huge shoulderpads.
Besides it's not my fault if Blizzard makes another pair that looks like those or if you have some mental problem and can't stand certain appearances of armour. I was just pointing out that someone around here is generalizing things a bit too much, as if he knows more than anyone else does on the subject, and all that is based on one trivial example which doesn't indicate a thing.
Last time I checked, there was a new screenshot circulating showing female barbarian with tiny shoulderpads, and I didn't start humping your leg about it.
You're trying to get me to see a difference in shoulder armor that YOU see. You've had to make up differences in order to complain for the most part.
So you admit that D2 has some fantasy shoulder armor,...finally.
Nope. It's not a problem with graphics. It's quite common for 3-D games with all kinds of armor to wear to have such a set up. Secondly, you misunderstood me - I was speaking about the reality that Blizzard has personally created for D3. It is there world. So that creation is their reality.
Then don't tell me that you don't want D3 to be the same as D2.
No, I get it. I think you don't understand that a game doesn't need to meet a BS standard of reality as designed by YOU - unless it's your game.
There isn't a problem like this in the gameplay video.
You mean designed according to your tastes.
You should stop arguing just for the sake of arguing. I know you like to think that you've devised this great idea that will somehow make everyone happy, but in truth you are pushing for your vision and your agenda to be implemented in Diablo - which is never going to happen. Of course you're going to keep going and going. It's your opinion and you feel that you can justify it as something D3 needs when in fact it doesn't.
Go listen to the newest Blizzcast. Listen to Jay Wilson explain the art direction on D3 and how they worked on it for 2 friggin' years and came to the best outcome that they could.
I think the best solution is to leave the art and the style as is. I've really yet to notice any kind of collision issues with the armor, and I've watched that HD gameplay trailer at least 20 times now. So I wonder where exactly you see this happening.
Your reasoning for saying diablo3 is less immersive is clearly only because in your opinion diablo1 and 2 are more immersive, Which btw, is pretty much impossible to know unless you actually sit down and play the game. So I'm going to assume that you are just saying D3 is less immersive... (I don't even think you really know what that word means.) because in your opinion diablo2 had environments, armor, and animation you liked and D3 doesn't.
The coherence of style, story, and design along with gameplay is what makes a game immersive, and I think we can safely assume Diablo3 is definitely not lacking in these respects. You might not like the style or the design, but that does not mean the game is not presented well or provides an immersive experience.
The simple solution is to just keep things as they are, maybe add shaders to the armor, and parts of the environment to give a more tactile quality to the surfaces. These things can all still be accomplished later on in development, and there might even be plans to do so, as such features are usually added in much later in the development cycle.
That being said though I think it's hard to argue that this game does not have a cohesive style, and is not presented well, or that the D3 armor is an more ridiculous looking than some of the necro armor, or even the barbarian armor for D2, not to mention that some of the color pallet's found on the armor in D2 were completely over the top.
My feeling is that you are holding on to some mental image of how Diablo3 should look like, and when Blizzards version didn't match your own, you felt that they had some how ruined the Diablo name. This of course is just your opinion.
If the Necro would lift his right arm, the spike would go right through his head. But that's hard to tell on the tiny 2D sprite.
And by 'immersive visuals', you mean fluorescent green, fluorescent blue, purple and pink armour and weapons in D2, right?
And pink zombies don't remind you that it is just a game. Okay.
You cannot selfishly insist that changing certain things to your standards is necessarily 'improvements'... You need to get some things straight in your mind.
Exactly. Fantasy armor is allowed to be large and intimidating.
Yup. ALL of it is fantasy armor. All of it is typical of a fantasy game.
Exactly. So big armor falls under the fantasy genre. So it's allowed, right? So will shrinking down the pads to a certain size make people on the whole happier? Nope.
This is what I've been saying. Big shoulder armor on a freakin' He-man barbarian isn't uncommon. It has nothing to do with WoW.
Constantly with the WoW references...constantly with the comparisons to "WoW shoulders".
It's just easier for you if you can tell yourself that I don't get it, right?
Actually, a change in shoulder pad design is essentially a change in art direction. You want a standard of reality to be met from the art direction, which would require heavy changes. How about instead, if you don't like certain shoulder armor in the game you just refrain from using it?
They care, but they don't care about meeting ridiculous stipulations on shoulder armor size and movement ability.
@whoever said shrinking shoulder pads wouldn't make it better: I don't think anyone would complain that should pads are too small. If they were shrunk, there would be no complaints, since no one really likes big pads. Not even Bashiok.
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
I think people would complain if the shoulder pads were to small, just like people complain now that they are to big. I don't really care if the make the shoulder pads a little bit smaller, however this really is more of nit picking than anything else.
You're opinions have been proven not as something better for the game, but only a matter of taste that won't make people happier with the game. Your points have become inane to the point to where all you can do is type "lol" and claim that I don't understand.
Your droning about your warped interpretation of Diablo shoulder pads has become somewhat of a parody of how far gamers will go to nitpick the very things they claim to be fans of.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: If large shoulder pads don't take you out of the experience of the game then they probably aren't too big. They don't distract. They keep the fantasy alive. Therefore, you have no real changes that need to be made. You don't know what's better. You don't know what immersive even means. You know this, and yet you keep droning and misunderstanding most of what people type to you, all the while taking jabs at them. This shows me that you aren't worth speaking to - again.
I'm going to put you on ignore again. Your huge mind numbing posts that show your lack of understanding what people type to you and your presentations of your personal taste as if it is something that will make everyone happy with Diablo disgusts me. It's childish. And I'm done telling you what's up only to have you planning your next ramble out before you're even done reading what I'm actually saying.
Here you go.
And I really don't see people demanding bigger shoulder pads. It would be too random, like, what would they need them for? Most of the time (orcs in Warcraft, Barbarian in Diablo) characters seem to wear large shoulder pads so that they seem to be armored while still showing off their abs or cleavage (in females case).
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
Oh,...wow.
Also, what Bashiok is saying it %100 correct about the character models. Just tone down the Shoulder pads (and those blasted horns:P)
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
Those horns kick ass.
Barbarian shoulderpads in D2 clashed with the helmet that was 2.5 times taller than his actual head (counting the ridiculously oversized horns) even when he just stands still and doesn't move. I can provide screenshots if you wish.
http://www.battle.net/images/battle/diablo2exp/images/superuniques/beetleburst.jpg
http://www.battle.net/images/battle/diablo2exp/images/superuniques/kaa.jpg
Kenzai, what does your name mean? Or is it just something you like to go by?
I'm not really sure why it puzzles me so.
My name is kinda parody of Stephen Kings Dreamcatcher.
That's a courtesy explanation, just in case.
Over confidence is the rot.