I'll agree that I expected a lot more on the itemization front. It almost felt like there should have been a "Crusader Preview" panel and a "Game Systems" panel. Either they didn't have enough solid info (which is possible) to fill a panel, or there was just too much going on at Blizzcon to get another full Diablo panel into the schedule. Also keep in mind that Starcraft, outside of the tournaments, was barely talked about at this Blizzcon and we know they have another full expansion to go (this is just an example of how they tend to focus on specific products at each blizzcon).
On top of itemization, there are a lot of class refinements coming that were barely talked about at all other than Wyatt making a comment here or there while introducing the Level 70 abilities.
Not being able to trade top tier legendary and set items could benefit you from a materials perspective. They've indicated a few times that the Blacksmith is going to have a lot of improvements to crafting. That's potentially the chance to craft great items that of course, would require great materials. So salvaging what you can't use might be something valuable.
Second - trading materials, gold, gems, etc for items in a game with others will probably become completely necessary.
I just burned through my stack of Tomes crafting gloves. I went to the AH and bought a couple thousand more Tomes, because I could. I don't want to WAIT to find them on my own, I will just buy them.
In RoS we will surely need a new Tome equivalent, a Demonic Essence like item, some other Essence from blue/rare items, whatever white items break down into and of course gold. These materials will be NEW in RoS, so we aren't going to have stacks up stacks of them. We will have to find them on our own.
Unless you find a legendary/set item that you don't need and someone in your group does.....
Not being able to trade top tier legendary and set items could benefit you from a materials perspective. They've indicated a few times that the Blacksmith is going to have a lot of improvements to crafting. That's potentially the chance to craft great items that of course, would require great materials. So salvaging what you can't use might be something valuable.
Second - trading materials, gold, gems, etc for items in a game with others will probably become completely necessary.
I just burned through my stack of Tomes crafting gloves. I went to the AH and bought a couple thousand more Tomes, because I could. I don't want to WAIT to find them on my own, I will just buy them.
In RoS we will surely need a new Tome equivalent, a Demonic Essence like item, some other Essence from blue/rare items, whatever white items break down into and of course gold. These materials will be NEW in RoS, so we aren't going to have stacks up stacks of them. We will have to find them on our own.
Unless you find a legendary/set item that you don't need and someone in your group does.....
I'd love to see crafting become more useful, more like it was in beta. Hopefully we are seeing the beginnings of that. If we have to sacrifice trading to get a more robust crafting system, I think I'd be OK with that.
I'd love to see crafting become more useful, more like it was in beta. Hopefully we are seeing the beginnings of that. If we have to sacrifice trading to get a more robust crafting system, I think I'd be OK with that.
If THAT is the sacrifice, so be it. My anger will subside.
But it's still a TERRIBLE mistake to tell us half the story. If this is, indeed, a way to make crafting "better" ... well it should have been announced in full, with that context. The current lack of information other than "hey, shit's gonna be BoA" is major cause for concern for me.
But it's still a TERRIBLE mistake to tell us half the story. If this is, indeed, a way to make crafting "better" ... well it should have been announced in full, with that context. The current lack of information other than "hey, shit's gonna be BoA" is major cause for concern for me.
(manufacturers warning: not trying to flame, but to politely argue)
How do you want them to communicate with you?
Travis said this in an interview at Blizzcon and said that this very well may change before they launch. Its something they are exploring.
Whether the intention is to improve crafting or to simply meet their goal to get you to play the game to find items, rather than trading/buying/sharing - they are working on it in the development of the game.
Do you consider that since they didn't announce this with as much pomp and circumstance as something like the AH removal, that might mean they don't intend on keeping it in the game?
Players want more communication from the development team. We got it - they said its something they are thinking about and it might very well change. Now you want them to tell you in a large announcement/definitive way as if its something that they are absolutely doing?
If its something they are thinking about - how do you want them to tell you that, other than to say "its something we are thinking about?"
EDIT: To clarify: I'm not saying that people can't argue against this idea of BoA items - I'm pushing the point that many are taking this as if they said they are absolutely doing this and its a done deal.
But it's still a TERRIBLE mistake to tell us half the story. If this is, indeed, a way to make crafting "better" ... well it should have been announced in full, with that context. The current lack of information other than "hey, shit's gonna be BoA" is major cause for concern for me.
(manufacturers warning: not trying to flame, but to politely argue)
How do you want them to communicate with you?
Travis said this in an interview at Blizzcon and said that this very well may change before they launch. Its something they are exploring.
Whether the intention is to improve crafting or to simply meet their goal to get you to play the game to find items, rather than trading/buying/sharing - they are working on it in the development of the game.
Do you consider that since they didn't announce this with as much pomp and circumstance as something like the AH removal, that might mean they don't intend on keeping it in the game?
Players want more communication from the development team. We got it - they said its something they are thinking about and it might very well change. Now you want them to tell you in a large announcement/definitive way as if its something that they are absolutely doing?
If its something they are thinking about - how do you want them to tell you that, other than to say "its something we are thinking about?"
EDIT: To clarify: I'm not saying that people can't argue against this idea of BoA items - I'm pushing the point that many are taking this as if they said they are absolutely doing this and its a done deal.
In principle, I agree with everything you just said. But this is a pretty major bomb to drop on us as an afterthought in a post-blizzcon interview. It's nice that they are communicating, of course, but this was just sloppy.
EDIT: To clarify: I'm not saying that people can't argue against this idea of BoA items - I'm pushing the point that many are taking this as if they said they are absolutely doing this and its a done deal.
Where I worry is when Travis said "In Reaper of Souls, The way it's gonna work is....."
Actually, Blizzard has said multiple times during Blzizcon that they wanted to improve crafting., Of course, with lack of details, it is just hot air.
One thing is certain in all this, it really is terrible communication.
It might be so on purpose though. Drop a bomb outside the focus of Blizzcon, sit back and watch the reaction. So much easier to backtrack if you can say it was just a misunderstanding.
Most of your "solutions" could also be instated if people exercised some strength of character and willpower, instead of mindlessly following the path of least resistance like some brainless electrons.
If people are trying to become as good as they possibly can, using all tools available is reasonable.
It shouldn't be needed to make up our own arbitrary limitations for the game to be fun.
You're absolutely right - Travis said specifically legendary items. What I was remembering/confusing was during the Q&A on the stage, Kevin Martins said this:
"I think that when we had the Auction House live trading was a valid way to get items but the scale had gotten way out of whack so the trading became the easiest, fastest, best way to get items as far as efficiency point of view goes. So we want to rebalance that essentially, as such we still do see the value of trading and we want there to be a good social aspect to trading so we are trying to keep the rules as wide as possible. Quite likely, and this could change by the time we ship, probably the very top tier of items, the top tier of legendaries will remain account bound and probably commodities as well. We probably want to avoid having another Stone of Jordan situation where we get an alternate economy going because we didn’t think this through. So we are working on all of this stuff and it’s still being locked down"
Again, I say that because they didn't mention this in a Dev Blog or with fanfares and videos, this idea is in development.
So as a community can we respond to the idea with critical thinking and let some of that thinking actually come of out of considering their idea?
^^What can I say, I just don't like it. And this is coming from someone that does very, very little trading, and that trading is never done with strangers. So I don't really have a horse in this race; I just think it's a bad move.
I'm nervous about it too. I was trying to consider it at least. Its something that we do my studio; all ideas are on the table and critically discussed from a standpoint of actual implementation of the idea.
I hated trading in D2. Mainly because you'd offer 10 SoJ for an item and one joker would tell you "the going rate for X item is 50 SoJ, NUB" and the next fool would tell you the rate was 30. The AH helped establish a going rate that everyone could easily confirm in any trade situation.
When I think back to the days when I had a stash of uniques that I didn't need (because I was never going to play that class) and I had pretty decent gear for my farming purposes, I realize that's when I stopped playing. In D3 at least I had the option to accumulate gold and then turn that into money - which I actually never sold a thing on the RMAH.
My point in mentioning that whole process is simply that from my own historical Diablo gaming experience, I have no reason to be concerned about trading being affected this way.
Yet I'm still concerned about it
I'm hoping that there is more on the table and it will all come together.
Risk vs. reward my friends. Risk vs. reward. The higher the risk, the sweeter the reward. We have to shed this sense of entitlement that we are owed every item in the game. In order to enjoy the sweetest taste of victory you have to run the risk that you could also taste the bitterest defeat. One cannot exist without the other! Some treasures are meant to be elusive and unfound. Let's not spoil it for ourselves by having someone else find them for us. Recognize this, acknowledge this, accept this, and then go out and savor every moment of the hunt!!
They are talking about a 1-2 hours trading window before it becomes soulbound, so lets c what happens.
Yes 1-2 hours of people in your party, anyone else can downright go fuck themselves, because seriously trading ruins the game so fucking much that Blizzard said "FUCK IT TOO MUCH INSTA-GRATIFICATION NO TRADING" and then said "FUCK THESE PEOPLE"
Their reaction is like a childs, so far in one direction for no apparent reason. Worse is they really haven't done anything to explain themselves. IT's quite ridiculous if you ask me. They need to focus on solutions to bigger problems not forcing solutions upon us through shitty means. If they would've stopped and thought to themselves" Wow, well if we take out trading there really is no point in finding gear once you've found yours." or the better question "Why did we just take out trading of the only useful items in the game?"...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
Trading for the best items, or friends giving me them, will not make me jump out of my seat...
So....basically, you don't have the willpower to refuse handouts. That's what it boils down to.
Ok don't take handouts into account. Lets say I trade an awesome Magefist for your Frostburns as I want to be a cold Wizard. We make the trade..yay I feel happy.
But I will argue that I would have been much much more excited if BoA was present so that I could only Find the best Items. Lets say I had been hunting for some Frostburns for ages then they dropped for me with a big golden beam on screen. I could see the item on the ground, read the text and know what it was before I pick it up and I will punch the air and be like 'fuck yes!'
That feeling might still happen without a BoA model but it is just going to be a god damn AH again where I will find something and just stop playing until I trade the item for what I actually wanted.
I don't want to have be in games saying 'wug' , 'wanna trade x for y', 'no that trade is unfair' and time ticks by, I sit there getting frustrated at this fucking archaic trading system when we had an AH and then my game time is up and go to bed thinking did I even play D3 tonight?
JUST MAKE THE TOP TOP GEAR BOA - ilvl 71,72,73 legendaries or something
HAVE ALL ITEMS UNDER ilvlx (70) BE TRADEABLE
That way we can still trade for gear to get the legendaries you want (ilvl70 ones) but they will not be as powerful as the BoA ones that drop. And if you get one of the BOA ones you will get that goood feeeling you don't get when trading
But it's still a TERRIBLE mistake to tell us half the story. If this is, indeed, a way to make crafting "better" ... well it should have been announced in full, with that context. The current lack of information other than "hey, shit's gonna be BoA" is major cause for concern for me.
(manufacturers warning: not trying to flame, but to politely argue)
How do you want them to communicate with you?
Travis said this in an interview at Blizzcon and said that this very well may change before they launch. Its something they are exploring.
Whether the intention is to improve crafting or to simply meet their goal to get you to play the game to find items, rather than trading/buying/sharing - they are working on it in the development of the game.
Do you consider that since they didn't announce this with as much pomp and circumstance as something like the AH removal, that might mean they don't intend on keeping it in the game?
Players want more communication from the development team. We got it - they said its something they are thinking about and it might very well change. Now you want them to tell you in a large announcement/definitive way as if its something that they are absolutely doing?
If its something they are thinking about - how do you want them to tell you that, other than to say "its something we are thinking about?"
EDIT: To clarify: I'm not saying that people can't argue against this idea of BoA items - I'm pushing the point that many are taking this as if they said they are absolutely doing this and its a done deal.
Miles kinda said it best.
This is a HUGE bomb to drop on us without context like "hey... guys... don't worry, crafting is going to be so awesome that you'll be HAPPY to brimstone those untradeable legendary/set items."
When they announced the AH/RMAH shutdown we already had context for that, namely Loot 2.0 and even some Paragon 2.0 stuff I believe. They announced it AFTER Gamescom, so it wasn't an announcement in a vacuum. We *knew* at that point that they were working hard on making self-found suck less dick. So when they made the announcement we already had the context that was important to keep it from being a total kick in the balls.
With this one.... we have NONE of that extra information that *might* make people take this as something more than "HAR HAR HAR LULZ ASSHATS U CAN'T TRADE NO MORE." It's a major bomb that really, really, really needs clarification beyond "We're going to make top items BoA."
What are top items?
Why do I have to trade them ONLY with 3 other people and ONLY in a 2-hour timeframe? Why can't I at least share them with my friends and clanmates? Why is it so important that they're PRESENT for the drop? For me, I work til the early morning hours. It's harder to connect with my friends. This is very important to me because I'd still like to enjoy D3 with them as best I can given my schedule. If I have to have been grouped with them and execute the trade within 2 hours of it dropping, well that's going to basically mean I'm playing 98%+ solo.
Does this mean that drop rates are going to be console-esque? This is really important because many people have expressed big reservations that the console drop rates are far too high for any longevity in the PC game.
Are we going to have something to do with the numerous items that are relegated to alts or vendor that would make us think that being unable to trade them isn't so horrible?
What mechanisms do we have to combat BAD RNG in a world with severely-limited trading? As much as we hate the AH that's exactly the service it provided, and it's a big service. You can't simply say to someone who has invested 5000 hours in a game "so sorry, too bad, try harder to find a Mempo" despite the fact that they've found five dozen Lacuni Prowlers. That's BAD gameplay.
There has to be a system to amelorate that kind of bad luck streak. "Just grind more" is only an excuse for so long, especially when we're depending on these items to DEFINE our builds. If I want to have a pet spec WD I need to have a REASONABLE expectation that I can find these on my own if trading is basically ruled out. I can't spend two years grinding, never to find the items I want to get the enjoyment out of my character that I seek.
These are all major... major... points that require a good deal of clarification. Much more than "hey, no trading... so sorry, so sad" which is basically what we got.
With an announcement THIS BIG there's so much importance in the details/context. Without that information, yeah, it's really going to get people up in arms.
THEN DON'T TRADE!!!
Reply after reply, all I see is "I can't resist handouts", or "I can't resist trading". What the hell's wrong with you that you can't avoid ruining your own fun?
If getting legendaries through trade is not fun to you, then DON'T DO IT.
I'm gonna jump in here and back Maka up, that he speaks what he actually does. He turned down an offer from me to give him 10mil HC gold to help him get rolling. He said "No thanks".
I've said it before here, I'll say it again. When developers start designing the game around concerns over 3rd party sites, they inevitably step on the toes of the majority of players whom do not engage in such practices.
When the developers start saying "Here's what we think you guys would have more fun with" and the majority of the people say "No. That's not what we think is fun".....it smacks the players as arrogant and disconnected.
I'll remind people of one of several incidents that came up in which this dynamic played out.
Individual identification.
Right off the bat, the majority of players threw a fucking fit about this. We asked, we pleaded and then we demanded they just let us ID-all. We were given a series of canned passive-aggressive responses from Blues...them telling us why we should like individually ID'ing items. For months this went on, and they half-ass fixed it, shortening the time it takes but still having us individually ID items.
We asked, we pleaded and then we demanded an ID-all. Again, a series of canned passive aggressive responses came our way, telling us what's best for "our" fun. Finally, after many months, they relented and the change was HUGE, in terms of the ebb 'n' flow quality of life.
We were right. They were wrong.
I see this Trade issue being much the same. At least we have time to curry their favor before this BAD idea is introduced into the game.
In this interview with Thunderclaww , Travis Day says ALL legs and sets are BOA (except the game you’re in). no top tiers or anything, ALL.
He explains their reasoning (earn your loot) at around 11.30.. (he did say ..right now..) So it could change..
And crafting doesn’t get a major overhaul! (other that, any craft will be a smart “drop”)
Side note: I didn’t liked his answer about jewels, at all. ( as if more options would be bad)
Ya see....I don't get this?
"Earn your loot"?
Lemme take us back to an example from my D2 days. True story even; I found a Perfect 200% ED eth HoZ from meph (after years of never getting a HoZ and "working" hard to get one). By far, my best drop ever. Thing is, I already had a 198% non-eth (garnered from trade), and I really didn't have use for the Eth HoZ.
BUT....My Zealot needed a real weapon. So I traded the HoZ for a well rolled 415% EbotdZ.
How the fuck did I not earn that EbotdZ? Explain that to me, Travis? Explain how I got it for "free" after untold hours spent farming for a commodity worthy of trading for it?
THEN DON'T TRADE!!!
Reply after reply, all I see is "I can't resist handouts", or "I can't resist trading". What the hell's wrong with you people that you can't avoid ruining your own fun?
If getting legendaries through trade is not fun to you, then DON'T DO IT. As long as the game is balanced around minimal trading, we'll be fine.
To be honest, this sounds familiar to me... remember when people in discussions about the AH said "THEN DON'T USE THE AH"?
Yeah, I know, you can resist the AH, but many (including me) just couldn't.
Besides, think about the implications of this design decision: if items are BoA, their drop rates can be even higher. Exactly the same argument as to why the AH was supposed to be removed even for those people who could resist it - it allows for higher drop rates.
Note: I agree with you that this is an overreaction and I'm not sure this will make it too live; I just wanna point out that saying "THEN DON'T TRADE" is a weak argument...
Besides, think about the implications of this design decision: if items are BoA, their drop rates can be even higher. Exactly the same argument as to why the AH was supposed to be removed even for those people who could resist it - it allows for higher drop rates.
I would much rather have lower drop rates and be able to trade, if drop rates are so high that they negate the need for trading then drop rates for legendaries are too high and it's going to feel unrewarding after you've found that 500th legendary item that you don't want and can't use.
On top of itemization, there are a lot of class refinements coming that were barely talked about at all other than Wyatt making a comment here or there while introducing the Level 70 abilities.
Not being able to trade top tier legendary and set items could benefit you from a materials perspective. They've indicated a few times that the Blacksmith is going to have a lot of improvements to crafting. That's potentially the chance to craft great items that of course, would require great materials. So salvaging what you can't use might be something valuable.
Second - trading materials, gold, gems, etc for items in a game with others will probably become completely necessary.
I just burned through my stack of Tomes crafting gloves. I went to the AH and bought a couple thousand more Tomes, because I could. I don't want to WAIT to find them on my own, I will just buy them.
In RoS we will surely need a new Tome equivalent, a Demonic Essence like item, some other Essence from blue/rare items, whatever white items break down into and of course gold. These materials will be NEW in RoS, so we aren't going to have stacks up stacks of them. We will have to find them on our own.
Unless you find a legendary/set item that you don't need and someone in your group does.....
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I'd love to see crafting become more useful, more like it was in beta. Hopefully we are seeing the beginnings of that. If we have to sacrifice trading to get a more robust crafting system, I think I'd be OK with that.
If THAT is the sacrifice, so be it. My anger will subside.
But it's still a TERRIBLE mistake to tell us half the story. If this is, indeed, a way to make crafting "better" ... well it should have been announced in full, with that context. The current lack of information other than "hey, shit's gonna be BoA" is major cause for concern for me.
(manufacturers warning: not trying to flame, but to politely argue)
How do you want them to communicate with you?
Travis said this in an interview at Blizzcon and said that this very well may change before they launch. Its something they are exploring.
Whether the intention is to improve crafting or to simply meet their goal to get you to play the game to find items, rather than trading/buying/sharing - they are working on it in the development of the game.
Do you consider that since they didn't announce this with as much pomp and circumstance as something like the AH removal, that might mean they don't intend on keeping it in the game?
Players want more communication from the development team. We got it - they said its something they are thinking about and it might very well change. Now you want them to tell you in a large announcement/definitive way as if its something that they are absolutely doing?
If its something they are thinking about - how do you want them to tell you that, other than to say "its something we are thinking about?"
EDIT: To clarify: I'm not saying that people can't argue against this idea of BoA items - I'm pushing the point that many are taking this as if they said they are absolutely doing this and its a done deal.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
In principle, I agree with everything you just said. But this is a pretty major bomb to drop on us as an afterthought in a post-blizzcon interview. It's nice that they are communicating, of course, but this was just sloppy.
Where I worry is when Travis said "In Reaper of Souls, The way it's gonna work is....."
He sounded a bit resolute.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
One thing is certain in all this, it really is terrible communication.
It might be so on purpose though. Drop a bomb outside the focus of Blizzcon, sit back and watch the reaction. So much easier to backtrack if you can say it was just a misunderstanding.
If people are trying to become as good as they possibly can, using all tools available is reasonable.
It shouldn't be needed to make up our own arbitrary limitations for the game to be fun.
You're absolutely right - Travis said specifically legendary items. What I was remembering/confusing was during the Q&A on the stage, Kevin Martins said this:
"I think that when we had the Auction House live trading was a valid way to get items but the scale had gotten way out of whack so the trading became the easiest, fastest, best way to get items as far as efficiency point of view goes. So we want to rebalance that essentially, as such we still do see the value of trading and we want there to be a good social aspect to trading so we are trying to keep the rules as wide as possible. Quite likely, and this could change by the time we ship, probably the very top tier of items, the top tier of legendaries will remain account bound and probably commodities as well. We probably want to avoid having another Stone of Jordan situation where we get an alternate economy going because we didn’t think this through. So we are working on all of this stuff and it’s still being locked down"
Again, I say that because they didn't mention this in a Dev Blog or with fanfares and videos, this idea is in development.
So as a community can we respond to the idea with critical thinking and let some of that thinking actually come of out of considering their idea?
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
I'm nervous about it too. I was trying to consider it at least. Its something that we do my studio; all ideas are on the table and critically discussed from a standpoint of actual implementation of the idea.
I hated trading in D2. Mainly because you'd offer 10 SoJ for an item and one joker would tell you "the going rate for X item is 50 SoJ, NUB" and the next fool would tell you the rate was 30. The AH helped establish a going rate that everyone could easily confirm in any trade situation.
When I think back to the days when I had a stash of uniques that I didn't need (because I was never going to play that class) and I had pretty decent gear for my farming purposes, I realize that's when I stopped playing. In D3 at least I had the option to accumulate gold and then turn that into money - which I actually never sold a thing on the RMAH.
My point in mentioning that whole process is simply that from my own historical Diablo gaming experience, I have no reason to be concerned about trading being affected this way.
Yet I'm still concerned about it
I'm hoping that there is more on the table and it will all come together.
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
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Yes 1-2 hours of people in your party, anyone else can downright go fuck themselves, because seriously trading ruins the game so fucking much that Blizzard said "FUCK IT TOO MUCH INSTA-GRATIFICATION NO TRADING" and then said "FUCK THESE PEOPLE"
Their reaction is like a childs, so far in one direction for no apparent reason. Worse is they really haven't done anything to explain themselves. IT's quite ridiculous if you ask me. They need to focus on solutions to bigger problems not forcing solutions upon us through shitty means. If they would've stopped and thought to themselves" Wow, well if we take out trading there really is no point in finding gear once you've found yours." or the better question "Why did we just take out trading of the only useful items in the game?"...
Ok don't take handouts into account. Lets say I trade an awesome Magefist for your Frostburns as I want to be a cold Wizard. We make the trade..yay I feel happy.
But I will argue that I would have been much much more excited if BoA was present so that I could only Find the best Items. Lets say I had been hunting for some Frostburns for ages then they dropped for me with a big golden beam on screen. I could see the item on the ground, read the text and know what it was before I pick it up and I will punch the air and be like 'fuck yes!'
That feeling might still happen without a BoA model but it is just going to be a god damn AH again where I will find something and just stop playing until I trade the item for what I actually wanted.
I don't want to have be in games saying 'wug' , 'wanna trade x for y', 'no that trade is unfair' and time ticks by, I sit there getting frustrated at this fucking archaic trading system when we had an AH and then my game time is up and go to bed thinking did I even play D3 tonight?
JUST MAKE THE TOP TOP GEAR BOA - ilvl 71,72,73 legendaries or something
HAVE ALL ITEMS UNDER ilvlx (70) BE TRADEABLE
That way we can still trade for gear to get the legendaries you want (ilvl70 ones) but they will not be as powerful as the BoA ones that drop. And if you get one of the BOA ones you will get that goood feeeling you don't get when trading
Miles kinda said it best.
This is a HUGE bomb to drop on us without context like "hey... guys... don't worry, crafting is going to be so awesome that you'll be HAPPY to brimstone those untradeable legendary/set items."
When they announced the AH/RMAH shutdown we already had context for that, namely Loot 2.0 and even some Paragon 2.0 stuff I believe. They announced it AFTER Gamescom, so it wasn't an announcement in a vacuum. We *knew* at that point that they were working hard on making self-found suck less dick. So when they made the announcement we already had the context that was important to keep it from being a total kick in the balls.
With this one.... we have NONE of that extra information that *might* make people take this as something more than "HAR HAR HAR LULZ ASSHATS U CAN'T TRADE NO MORE." It's a major bomb that really, really, really needs clarification beyond "We're going to make top items BoA."
What are top items?
Why do I have to trade them ONLY with 3 other people and ONLY in a 2-hour timeframe? Why can't I at least share them with my friends and clanmates? Why is it so important that they're PRESENT for the drop? For me, I work til the early morning hours. It's harder to connect with my friends. This is very important to me because I'd still like to enjoy D3 with them as best I can given my schedule. If I have to have been grouped with them and execute the trade within 2 hours of it dropping, well that's going to basically mean I'm playing 98%+ solo.
Does this mean that drop rates are going to be console-esque? This is really important because many people have expressed big reservations that the console drop rates are far too high for any longevity in the PC game.
Are we going to have something to do with the numerous items that are relegated to alts or vendor that would make us think that being unable to trade them isn't so horrible?
What mechanisms do we have to combat BAD RNG in a world with severely-limited trading? As much as we hate the AH that's exactly the service it provided, and it's a big service. You can't simply say to someone who has invested 5000 hours in a game "so sorry, too bad, try harder to find a Mempo" despite the fact that they've found five dozen Lacuni Prowlers. That's BAD gameplay.
There has to be a system to amelorate that kind of bad luck streak. "Just grind more" is only an excuse for so long, especially when we're depending on these items to DEFINE our builds. If I want to have a pet spec WD I need to have a REASONABLE expectation that I can find these on my own if trading is basically ruled out. I can't spend two years grinding, never to find the items I want to get the enjoyment out of my character that I seek.
These are all major... major... points that require a good deal of clarification. Much more than "hey, no trading... so sorry, so sad" which is basically what we got.
With an announcement THIS BIG there's so much importance in the details/context. Without that information, yeah, it's really going to get people up in arms.
I'm gonna jump in here and back Maka up, that he speaks what he actually does. He turned down an offer from me to give him 10mil HC gold to help him get rolling. He said "No thanks".
I've said it before here, I'll say it again. When developers start designing the game around concerns over 3rd party sites, they inevitably step on the toes of the majority of players whom do not engage in such practices.
When the developers start saying "Here's what we think you guys would have more fun with" and the majority of the people say "No. That's not what we think is fun".....it smacks the players as arrogant and disconnected.
I'll remind people of one of several incidents that came up in which this dynamic played out.
Individual identification.
Right off the bat, the majority of players threw a fucking fit about this. We asked, we pleaded and then we demanded they just let us ID-all. We were given a series of canned passive-aggressive responses from Blues...them telling us why we should like individually ID'ing items. For months this went on, and they half-ass fixed it, shortening the time it takes but still having us individually ID items.
We asked, we pleaded and then we demanded an ID-all. Again, a series of canned passive aggressive responses came our way, telling us what's best for "our" fun. Finally, after many months, they relented and the change was HUGE, in terms of the ebb 'n' flow quality of life.
We were right. They were wrong.
I see this Trade issue being much the same. At least we have time to curry their favor before this BAD idea is introduced into the game.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Ya see....I don't get this?
"Earn your loot"?
Lemme take us back to an example from my D2 days. True story even; I found a Perfect 200% ED eth HoZ from meph (after years of never getting a HoZ and "working" hard to get one). By far, my best drop ever. Thing is, I already had a 198% non-eth (garnered from trade), and I really didn't have use for the Eth HoZ.
BUT....My Zealot needed a real weapon. So I traded the HoZ for a well rolled 415% EbotdZ.
How the fuck did I not earn that EbotdZ? Explain that to me, Travis? Explain how I got it for "free" after untold hours spent farming for a commodity worthy of trading for it?
Am I making sense here?
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
To be honest, this sounds familiar to me... remember when people in discussions about the AH said "THEN DON'T USE THE AH"?
Yeah, I know, you can resist the AH, but many (including me) just couldn't.
Besides, think about the implications of this design decision: if items are BoA, their drop rates can be even higher. Exactly the same argument as to why the AH was supposed to be removed even for those people who could resist it - it allows for higher drop rates.
Note: I agree with you that this is an overreaction and I'm not sure this will make it too live; I just wanna point out that saying "THEN DON'T TRADE" is a weak argument...
I would much rather have lower drop rates and be able to trade, if drop rates are so high that they negate the need for trading then drop rates for legendaries are too high and it's going to feel unrewarding after you've found that 500th legendary item that you don't want and can't use.
I suppose, it's better to have a restriction -even this most restrictive one- to the trading of legendaries than having none.
Maybe some middle-ground would be better but I could shut down all of my ideas in that regard myself with reasons why they wouldn't work
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450