When making assumptions about Scatter, please consider that there are not always 4 mobs (1 mob and 3 nearby mobs to receive the split arrows). In many cases you might find your arrow split into 3 arrows with nothing to hit.
The chances of the other runes piercing and hitting an additional target is higher because:
1. they just need 1 additional target
2. they can hit the same target they pierced (which scatter PROBABLY can't. Would be really OP if it could)
Scatter will therefore blow more damage into thin air, instead of mobs, more on average than the other runes.
Sure - but you don't have to use said rune in any situation where there is less than three mobs.
Switching runes will cause delay and the loss of valor buff.
My original point was anyway, that in all those calculations on the rune you assume that the arrows will hit, which they won't a lot of the time.
I'm pretty sure that the shattered arrows btw won't be able to hit the same target they originated from. Why would anyone prefer any of the other runes?
Devouring arrow: 70% bonus dmg if the arrow pierces.
Shatter shot: 230% bonus dmg if the arrow pierces.
hmm..
Nowhere did I say to switch runes. Are you going to be using hungering arrow on a boss? Grab a single target skill for a boss and if there are less than 3 mobs left alive, use a smaller aoe or the single target. That's what I was getting at. I don't plan on swapping runes all that often.
Nowhere did I say to switch runes. Are you going to be using hungering arrow on a boss? Grab a single target skill for a boss and if there are less than 3 mobs left alive, use a smaller aoe or the single target. That's what I was getting at. I don't plan on swapping runes all that often.
Aha, sorry for misinterpreting.
Anyway, shooting hungering arrow with shatter on 4 mobs is no guarantee that the shots will hit. Mobs might:
- flee
- burry
- fly
- go invis
- die from merc
- die from teamate
- die from companion
- die from trap
- die from dot
Of course all of this can happen with other runes as well, but as they only require 1 target (instead of 4) to maximize their efficiency they will be less likely to be affected.
This is no biggy. The rune will probably still be good. I'm just saying: It's not as good as it's on paper.
That's why I say you should have a skill for every situation :P. My build probably won't even include HA, so :3.
Nowhere did I say to switch runes. Are you going to be using hungering arrow on a boss? Grab a single target skill for a boss and if there are less than 3 mobs left alive, use a smaller aoe or the single target. That's what I was getting at. I don't plan on swapping runes all that often.
Aha, sorry for misinterpreting.
Anyway, shooting hungering arrow with shatter on 4 mobs is no guarantee that the shots will hit. Mobs might:
- flee
- burry
- fly
- go invis
- die from merc
- die from teamate
- die from companion
- die from trap
- die from dot
Of course all of this can happen with other runes as well, but as they only require 1 target (instead of 4) to maximize their efficiency they will be less likely to be affected.
This is no biggy. The rune will probably still be good. I'm just saying: It's not as good as it's on paper.
That's why I say you should have a skill for every situation :P. My build probably won't even include HA, so :3.
If shatter is not guided, then there is almost no situation that its better that one of the other choices.
You need 1.5 out of the 3 arrows to hit, just to make the runeskill better than the unruned hungering arrow.
You need all 3/3 arrows to hit for it to put out as much dmg as say puncturing.
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Again, the more fundamental issue is that the runes *only* modify dps and don't change how we use or look at the ability.
Rend Mutilate vs Lacerate.
70%/s base for 3 = 210%
90%/s Lacerate for 3 = 270%
70%/s Mutilate for 5 = 350%
At least those have slight differences, since one is better in an infinite rage situation and the other is better in a DPC. The difference between runes for Hungering just don't differ enough, which again leads me to believe that they will be changing the runes.
If shatter is not guided, then there is almost no situation that its better that one of the other choices.
You need 1.5 out of the 3 arrows to hit, just to make the runeskill better than the unruned hungering arrow.
You need all 3/3 arrows to hit for it to put out as much dmg as say puncturing.
For it to put out as much damage as say Puncturing does over time. Puncturing has to pierce 3 times for it to do as much damage as Shatter does. I will assume that all the arrows will hit because if I were to choose it I would only be firing it into gigantic swarms.
Shatter is more "bursty" in nature against larger packs. I see it as a fair trade off and something worth considering before dismissing it.
So mathematically it may not be better, but when looking at the speed in which it delivers it's damage, it should get more credit imo.
Anyway, shooting hungering arrow with shatter on 4 mobs is no guarantee that the shots will hit. Mobs might:
- flee
- burry
- fly
- go invis
- die from merc
- die from teamate
- die from companion
- die from trap
- die from dot
Of course all of this can happen with other runes as well, but as they only require 1 target (instead of 4) to maximize their efficiency they will be less likely to be affected...
Like I said earlier though, it really shouldn't be used against a group that small. It's potential lies in using it against hordes of monsters.
The damage is also practically instant opposed to Devouring, Puncturing, and Cinder runes "ramping up" to do their full damage (they have to move along single targets at a time before landing at their full potential).
So you trade off single target / small pack viability for large-pack-burst damage.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
What do you guys think about the current wording on devouring shot?
I take it to mean that you won't get the 70% dmg bonus after the 1st pierce.
Do you think this is accurate? The # seems kinda low when you do it that way....
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One is never hurt by being given additional choices, only by taking them away. A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Devouring arrow is only at 215% dmg, and its dmg is very spiky. Worst choice for any situation imo.
Assuming that Spray of teeth hits the initial target, which should obviously happen, then it becomes by far the best rune at roughly 70% crit chance. At that point not only does it do equal single target dps, but it has the AoE component to boot.
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
When making assumptions about Scatter, please consider that there are not always 4 mobs (1 mob and 3 nearby mobs to receive the split arrows). In many cases you might find your arrow split into 3 arrows with nothing to hit.
The chances of the other runes piercing and hitting an additional target is higher because:
1. they just need 1 additional target
2. they can hit the same target they pierced (which scatter PROBABLY can't. Would be really OP if it could)
Scatter will therefore blow more damage into thin air, instead of mobs, more on average than the other runes.
They are assuming the 3 after split arrow are homing so they will almost allways hit.
In case they are not homing this rune is really weak. Already explaned.
The split arrows from Scatter do pierce and are seeking.
However, be aware that the homing mechanism on hungering arrow is not 100% reliable. I've seen plenty of arrows fail to acquire a target even when one seems to be in range. Sometimes they hit a barrier and disappear before they turn around as well. At any rate, it's the rune I'm using right now, and it even looks pretty awesome.
Oh, someone asked somewhere. Yes, all three splits can come back and hit the same target.
Yes, all three splits can come back and hit the same target.
I only used it for one act but I was unable to replicate this, I know what you mean by unreliable homing, but as far as single target goes ive only ever had one of the arrows come back and hit the original target, even when theres only one mob in the room.
Yeah, I haven't been able to get it to happen again either. I thought I saw it happen once, but I've been unable to do it again, so I may have been seeing something else.
if it splits, all arrows can seek, however only 1 will re-seek the original target. in other words, i don't think more than 1 of the split arrows can hit the split-originating target again. i have not tried it in a large group so i am not sure if the split arrows can be split. going to try and test that now.
edit: more testing. it seems like there is a "no track" distance that the 3 arrows will travel before they seek. if one arrow hits during this period, another may track back to that same target. I have not yet seen 2 arrows track to the same target. i have not yet seen a second split.
I used this briefly and from what I could tell, only 1 arrow would come back and hit the original target again, The other 2 arrows Shot off screen and it was hard to decipher what happened to them. Also I am uncertain if the arrow capable of tracking is also capable of multiple pierces. It happens so fast you might need to FRAPS it to get definite confirmation of the mechanics.
Though my guess is that the one arrow acts just like hungering arrow and the other 2 arrows just go off straight trajectory w/o pierce. The would in turn probably make this rune a poor choice.
EDIT: Of course it won't split more than once, that is clearly written in the description.
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Do you want to get scammed? Perhaps a nice keylogger?
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
I used this briefly and from what I could tell, only 1 arrow would come back and hit the original target again, The other 2 arrows Shot off screen and it was hard to decipher what happened to them. Also I am uncertain if the arrow capable of tracking is also capable of multiple pierces. It happens so fast you might need to FRAPS it to get definite confirmation of the mechanics.
Though my guess is that the one arrow acts just like hungering arrow and the other 2 arrows just go off straight trajectory w/o pierce. The would in turn probably make this rune a poor choice.
EDIT: Of course it won't split more than once, that is clearly written in the description.
I'm just going to echo this. I have yet to notice one of the split arrows piercing, but again it all occurs very fast...it's definitely possible I've just missed it. It certainly does not seem to be a particularly good rune choice.
So just to clarify, you found Devouring to actually raise each subsequent hit by a factor of 1.7, as opposed to it simply adding 70%*115% weapon damage each pierce (the former gives us that ~284% figure, the latter would give us ~244%)? You aren't just assuming this, but actually tested it, correct?
So after trying to figure out which of these is better(Puncturing VS Devouring) and failing many times due to simple mistakes, I decided to make sure all my data was correct(weapon damage modifier, chance to pierce, etc) and sit down and do the math as simply as possible. Hopefully, I made no mistakes this time!
So let's assume we test these 2 shots by firing 100 shots total. For the sake of the test, each shot gets the right amount of pierces.
Puncturing Arrow
100 shots hit for 115%=11500%
50 come back and hit again for 115%=5750%
25=2875%
12=1438%
6=719%
3=359%
1=180% Total weapon damage done=22821% weapon damage
Devouring Arrow(Multiplicative)
100 for 115%=11500%
35 for 195.5%=6843%
12 for 332.4%=3988%
4 for 564.9%=2260%
1 for 960.5%=960.5% Total weapon damage done=25551% weapon damage
Devouring Arrow(Additive)
100 for 115%=11500%
35 for 185%=6475%
12 for 255%=3060%
4 for 325%=1300%
1 for 395%=395% Total weapon damage done=22730% weapon damage
So if this is all correct(which I hope it is), then Devouring(mult) is the most powerful by quite a bit. However, if the 70% is additive, then it and Puncturing are almost the same with damage done.
Dividing up a hundred shots and rounding it is a bit less accurate than using summation, but it gives a decent picture to the less mathy folks. I believe it's still a question as to whether each pierce of Devouring Arrow adds 70% of weapon damage, or 70% of the initial hit (which would be 70% * 115% = 80.5%)
Devouring Arrow may do a little bit more damage on average, if the above is accurate, but its so close that I am going to continue using Puncturing Arrow (which yields an average of 2 hits vs 1.53, and thus works better with On Hit and On Crit effects)
Dividing up a hundred shots and rounding it is a bit less accurate than using summation, but it gives a decent picture to the less mathy folks. I believe it's still a question as to whether each pierce of Devouring Arrow adds 70% of weapon damage, or 70% of the initial hit (which would be 70% * 115% = 80.5%)
Devouring Arrow may do a little bit more damage on average, if the above is accurate, but its so close that I am going to continue using Puncturing Arrow (which yields an average of 2 hits vs 1.53, and thus works better with On Hit and On Crit effects)
We know its for sure not 70% OF the initial hit. First off, you can see the damage going up in game, rather than down. And secondly, the tooltip says it increases the damage of the arrow BY 70% for each pierce. So the question is whether its multiplicative or additive. If multipilicative, than Devouring Arrow does a TON more damage, but if additive, it does a tiny bit less than Puncturing. And yeah, I figured my math wasn't super accurate like a summation would be, but I thought it would paint a general picture of how much damage each rune does over a period of time that everyone can understand.
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Nowhere did I say to switch runes. Are you going to be using hungering arrow on a boss? Grab a single target skill for a boss and if there are less than 3 mobs left alive, use a smaller aoe or the single target. That's what I was getting at. I don't plan on swapping runes all that often.
That's why I say you should have a skill for every situation :P. My build probably won't even include HA, so :3.
If shatter is not guided, then there is almost no situation that its better that one of the other choices.
You need 1.5 out of the 3 arrows to hit, just to make the runeskill better than the unruned hungering arrow.
You need all 3/3 arrows to hit for it to put out as much dmg as say puncturing.
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Rend Mutilate vs Lacerate.
70%/s base for 3 = 210%
90%/s Lacerate for 3 = 270%
70%/s Mutilate for 5 = 350%
At least those have slight differences, since one is better in an infinite rage situation and the other is better in a DPC. The difference between runes for Hungering just don't differ enough, which again leads me to believe that they will be changing the runes.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
For it to put out as much damage as say Puncturing does over time. Puncturing has to pierce 3 times for it to do as much damage as Shatter does. I will assume that all the arrows will hit because if I were to choose it I would only be firing it into gigantic swarms.
Shatter is more "bursty" in nature against larger packs. I see it as a fair trade off and something worth considering before dismissing it.
So mathematically it may not be better, but when looking at the speed in which it delivers it's damage, it should get more credit imo.
Like I said earlier though, it really shouldn't be used against a group that small. It's potential lies in using it against hordes of monsters.
The damage is also practically instant opposed to Devouring, Puncturing, and Cinder runes "ramping up" to do their full damage (they have to move along single targets at a time before landing at their full potential).
So you trade off single target / small pack viability for large-pack-burst damage.
Epicurus
I take it to mean that you won't get the 70% dmg bonus after the 1st pierce.
Do you think this is accurate? The # seems kinda low when you do it that way....
A QUADRILLION MAGIC FIND is worthless if you can't kill shit!
Assuming that Spray of teeth hits the initial target, which should obviously happen, then it becomes by far the best rune at roughly 70% crit chance. At that point not only does it do equal single target dps, but it has the AoE component to boot.
Epicurus
They are assuming the 3 after split arrow are homing so they will almost allways hit.
In case they are not homing this rune is really weak. Already explaned.
The split arrows from Scatter do pierce and are seeking.
However, be aware that the homing mechanism on hungering arrow is not 100% reliable. I've seen plenty of arrows fail to acquire a target even when one seems to be in range. Sometimes they hit a barrier and disappear before they turn around as well. At any rate, it's the rune I'm using right now, and it even looks pretty awesome.
Oh, someone asked somewhere. Yes, all three splits can come back and hit the same target.
I only used it for one act but I was unable to replicate this, I know what you mean by unreliable homing, but as far as single target goes ive only ever had one of the arrows come back and hit the original target, even when theres only one mob in the room.
if it splits, all arrows can seek, however only 1 will re-seek the original target. in other words, i don't think more than 1 of the split arrows can hit the split-originating target again. i have not tried it in a large group so i am not sure if the split arrows can be split. going to try and test that now.
edit: more testing. it seems like there is a "no track" distance that the 3 arrows will travel before they seek. if one arrow hits during this period, another may track back to that same target. I have not yet seen 2 arrows track to the same target. i have not yet seen a second split.
Though my guess is that the one arrow acts just like hungering arrow and the other 2 arrows just go off straight trajectory w/o pierce. The would in turn probably make this rune a poor choice.
EDIT: Of course it won't split more than once, that is clearly written in the description.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
I'm just going to echo this. I have yet to notice one of the split arrows piercing, but again it all occurs very fast...it's definitely possible I've just missed it. It certainly does not seem to be a particularly good rune choice.
So let's assume we test these 2 shots by firing 100 shots total. For the sake of the test, each shot gets the right amount of pierces.
Puncturing Arrow
100 shots hit for 115%=11500%
50 come back and hit again for 115%=5750%
25=2875%
12=1438%
6=719%
3=359%
1=180%
Total weapon damage done=22821% weapon damage
Devouring Arrow(Multiplicative)
100 for 115%=11500%
35 for 195.5%=6843%
12 for 332.4%=3988%
4 for 564.9%=2260%
1 for 960.5%=960.5%
Total weapon damage done=25551% weapon damage
Devouring Arrow(Additive)
100 for 115%=11500%
35 for 185%=6475%
12 for 255%=3060%
4 for 325%=1300%
1 for 395%=395%
Total weapon damage done=22730% weapon damage
So if this is all correct(which I hope it is), then Devouring(mult) is the most powerful by quite a bit. However, if the 70% is additive, then it and Puncturing are almost the same with damage done.
Devouring Arrow may do a little bit more damage on average, if the above is accurate, but its so close that I am going to continue using Puncturing Arrow (which yields an average of 2 hits vs 1.53, and thus works better with On Hit and On Crit effects)
We know its for sure not 70% OF the initial hit. First off, you can see the damage going up in game, rather than down. And secondly, the tooltip says it increases the damage of the arrow BY 70% for each pierce. So the question is whether its multiplicative or additive. If multipilicative, than Devouring Arrow does a TON more damage, but if additive, it does a tiny bit less than Puncturing. And yeah, I figured my math wasn't super accurate like a summation would be, but I thought it would paint a general picture of how much damage each rune does over a period of time that everyone can understand.