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I really hope to see this fixed in a future patch. The "opening a present" argument is so stupid. Most players that farm will ID all of their rares at the same time and then look through the trash to see if there are any gems in there. There is no "opening a present" feeling with the current system. No one would be upset if the timer was removed completely.

When they release the numbers I'll have to run some numbers and see if the rewards are worth the slower kills. Since I can already carry a 4 man team pretty easily, I don't think it will be too hard but it may be too slow to be worth cranking the monster levels up high enough.

I can't wait to see the real numbers, it's too hard to say one way or the other until then.

I get 25-30M per hour as a WD although I do use MF gear to make sure I cap out MF at 404. I'd probably pull 30-35 in my real gear but I'd rather have better drops.

Quote from Astrand

There is a cap of 300 MF. NV stacks go beyond that cap to 375 MF with full stacks. Other than that, there is a bug that increase your MF over that cap if it comes from a follower (this might have been fixed, I can't say for sure since EU is still down for few hours).

My MF still shows 403 with 5 stacks of NV. I don't think it's fixed yet.

Too bad about the pvp news for people that were interested in that (I'm not though, I think pvp will be boring and unbalanced).

I wonder if the magic find will allow us to stack over the MF cap. Otherwise it will be a bit contradicting to the system they're going after. Once you acquire good enough gear to do the higher difficulty levels you'll naturally have a higher paragon level (and probably some MF on your gear) so the reward won't be so great.

However, if it lets us break the cap (and possibly more item drops)... that should be a decent reward.

I wonder what is being done to the monsters to increase difficulty though. If it's just increased HP, that won't make the game harder. I hope it's at least increased damage and hp. If they increase the damage though, they're going to run into the same problems they originally ran into with Inferno. Ranged classes getting 1 shot and melee classes complaining that they're forced to take all their defensive skills. It will be pretty funny if this new system brings all those issues back.

Yeah I've had that happen to me as well. Typically, it will disappear after a few days. It is a pretty annoying bug though!

IAS is only a dps increase if you can keep up with the mana cost while spamming your highest damage spell. Don't always trust the paper doll DPS sheet while gearing. It does not tell the whole story.

Quit babying the player base. We don't need the nerfs to monster damage to be so aggresive that in the long run we're taking "less damage than before". That is something that I DO NOT WANT. Blizzard is trying too hard to appease whiners and they're starting to cross the line into making D3 a boring game. Please stop now....

So I tried your suggestions over lunch.

You must have some wicked gear for that to actually work out for you. For me, it was an expensive and frustrating experience.

1.) I don't know how you function with only having zbears for an attack. Anything that runs away is an extreme pain (even worse if it's molten). You need a ranged skill.
2.) I couldn't survive without having zdogs out to distract. It wasn't an issue for early Act 3 but the later stuff in Act 3 was killing me (both trash and elites).
3.) I liked having the speed glyph for horrify but it made reflects damage and certain trash packs a huge headache. I must not have the gear yet to pull this off. Possibly once I get rid of my magic find....
4.) I can't stand Mass Confusion. The very first pack I used it against was knockback.... it took 2-3 times longer to kill because the stupid mobs would punt each other to different parts of the map. I know this was an odd situation but I was not a fan. I did not experience a noticeable increase in kill time either so.... not worth it.

Thanks for the input. My gear cannot handle it though or I simply don't like the playstyle. Maybe it will work better for others.

@ aerialus

Thanks for the good advice. The only thing I disagree with is your advice about using Tyrael's might. I think the 4 piece zuni set is HUGE and you need the chest if you're going to use Thing of the Deep. Also, lifesteal is very important for making reflects damage packs easier... sometimes the health globes don't drop at 50% health and that's when you can have trouble (not dying but you'll have to wait for spirit walk to come back). Lifesteal isn't needed (I don't have it on my MF weapon) but it does help out a lot if you have it.

Personally, I run out of mana on extra health massive units (like tremors) so some of your advice is a bit based on your current gear (you seem to have a ton of +mana regen/max mana/zbear reduction pieces).

I'll try the movespeed boost on horrify and see if I really need the armor boost at my gear level. I've had that rune on my mental checklist to try once I start removing some of my MF gear so we'll see how it goes. Mass confusion seems like an interesting skill to have. I may have to try it instead of dogs but I think I might start dying on trash without my dogs... I don't think my gear is at your level yet in terms of survivability.

How do you stand breaking down doors/objects with zbears? It's so slow and cumbersome. Even if I never used darts for damage it still saves a lot of time in the keeps breaking down doors. My keep clears are much slower when I only have zbears on my bar. I don't think BBV really adds much when you're killing elites in 2-3 seconds anyway. Also, there are times where I can't be close enough to use zombie bears due to molten/arcane if it's an enemy that runs away.

Quote from Catalept

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Quote from luizdeh

Seems like I'm the only one not liking the 'reduced incoming damage' part.

I agree, what is the point in reducing incoming damage? Isn't this game getting easy enough? I've been running through Act 2 and Act 3 pretty much unscathed lately.

I just don't understand why they're nerfing defensive abilities. Wasn't 1.04 supposed to make things easier for players? Why reverse that??

Oh. Wait. It looks like we both only read half of what Blizzard's actually doing. How foolish.

Well... the fact that incoming monster will be reduced will have a big effect on wither or not you even need a defensive ability in the first place which is kind of the worry. Currently, I only barely need a single defensive ability (horrify) and I only use it for the + armor boost. With the new patch, I'm pretty sure I won't even need that... I can use big bad voodoo instead and still never have a chance at dying? That doesn't sound more fun... it sounds more mind numbing.

By nerfing monster damage, you're making it more likely that you'll hit a point of gear where you no longer even need a defensive skill. That's why some people aren't thrilled with the idea of even lower monster damage.

Quote from luizdeh

Seems like I'm the only one not liking the 'reduced incoming damage' part.

I was thinking the same thing going through the first page. I think the surprise of the uber modes distracted people (which is really awesome news).

I think reducing the damage again (it's already at a good point, imo) will make the game a bit lame. After the last series of nerfs... damage isn't very high as is.

Quote from BigEd781

Quote from Ruppgu

Quote from BigEd781

Quote from Ruppgu

Life on kill is not as worthless as you make it out to be.

1.) While leveling up an alt, I had a weapon with 1k+ life on kill (it was a reduced level requirement item) and it was AWESOME. I was immortal.

What is useful while leveling is irrelevant; leveling is brain-dead easy.

2.) When you reach top tiers of gear, life on kill is really neat. I find it's a useful and much cheaper version of life return for my WD. LoH is very expensive and does not work very well with zombie bears. Lifesteal only comes on my mainhand so if I want my life return, I get life on kill from rings. It heals quite a bit on trash when you're killing 5-6 monsters at a time. It allows me to run into the middle of massive mobs with 25k HP and come out without a scratch. It's not worthless.

What works for killing large packs of white mobs is not all that relevant either; white mobs are easy. You need life while fighting elites, not after killing them. Life after kill is a worthless stat, and certainly not comparable in any way to LoH.

I'd have no problem finding it on pre-60 gear, but on inferno gear? No thanks.

Stop talking in absolutes.

How is it worthless if I find it useful?

I can play more recklessly with having a bit of life on kill so it speeds up my runs. That itself is worthwhile right there. I don't care if you think whites are worthless. The only thing I care about is time spent during a run and that makes killing whites the most important thing for me. Elites die in under 5 seconds and the majority of time is spent inbetween packs and killing elites.

You really need to stop talking like everyone is at your gear level. Elites die quickly for me so no... I don't need healing on elites like you claim as a 100% absolute fact. Think outside your bubble please.

//edit: 2 lines got combined not making any since.

My gear level is sufficient for me to stomp all over Act III without dying, pre-patch, so I'm not sure what you mean. It is an objectively worthless stat, as the AH reflects (i.e., people won't pay for it).

You said it yourself; you find it a slight nice to have stat, but you hardly need it. No one is looking for LAK in comparison to other more valuable stats. It is a garbage stat of little value.

You didn't take my advice.

No one?? Really? I guess I don't count when I was picking out my ring then. It's cheap because not everyone wants it. It's not a good stat at normal gear levels.

You are taking your personal characters and your personal gear and saying, "It's worthless for me so therefore it's worthless for everyone".

Take me for example, I'm a WD (a class you haven't even played) and my gear lacks regen + LoH + Lifesteal (unless I'm not using my MF weapon at the time). I only have 1 skill that gives me back a bit of health (and it's a very low amount). For ME, the stat is very useful. LoH does not scale well with the skills I use so I would actually prefer life on kill compared to LoH on a ring. 500 is enough to satisfy all of my health needs. Since I kill 5-10 mobs with 1 cast of zombie bears, I get healed up to full just by having 500 Life on Kill when I cast it.

Why is it cheap? Because most people don't destroy mobs in 1 hit so LoH is much better for them. It's not useful for most people, I'll agree with you there.

Quote from shaggy

Quote from Ruppgu

Quote from shaggy

Life on Kill (Life on Hit, Life/Sec, Life Leech are all vastly superior, Health Globe bonus is iffy)
All three hybrid stats (str/dex, str/int, and dex/int - all are worthless because we all want str/vit, dex/vit, int/vit instead)
Indestructible (repairs, as they stand, are not remotely prohibitive so this property has very little actual value)
Thorns (a very niche property)

Life on kill is not as worthless as you make it out to be.

1.) While leveling up an alt, I had a weapon with 1k+ life on kill (it was a reduced level requirement item) and it was AWESOME. I was immortal.
2.) When you reach top tiers of gear, life on kill is really neat. I find it's a useful and much cheaper version of life return for my WD. LoH is very expensive and does not work very well with zombie bears. Lifesteal only comes on my mainhand so if I want my life return, I get life on kill from rings. It heals quite a bit on trash when you're killing 5-6 monsters at a time. It allows me to run into the middle of massive mobs with 25k HP and come out without a scratch. It's not worthless.

I would say reduced CC effects and thorns are pretty worthless though. That's not the loot problem though. The loot problem is that most ilvl63 items only roll main stats of about 30 when 200-300 is the max.

I'll make two points. Well, just one. BigEd summed up my feelings on Life on Kill perfectly. At best you are arguing that it's a niche property. At worst it's a waste of everyone's time. To me that's a sign that it needs to be re-thought.

http://d3db.com/item/i/archon-faulds

Look through the list of properties you can roll on iLvl 63 legs. Note that the 30 to dex/int/str/vit are coming from the HYBRID stats. I do not see any single stat rolls (just str, just int, just dex, just vit) which are that low. But the hybrid stat properties go as low as 20 (Severe, for example). It seems that for a single stat property the lowest roll is 72. That may be a bit low, but it's nowhere near as low as 20.

The hybrid stats are what you are seeing as the problem. The ones that aren't a primary-vitality combo NEED to go because they ARE responsible for shitting up our gear. Str-Dex, Str-Int, and Dex-Int hybrid properties add absolutely nothing to our gear. Half of their itemization is outright wasted every time they show up which means that, essentially, you're getting half a roll to begin with. That's foolish and stupid.

Never noticed that, thanks. Yeah... the floor on those combo stats need improved then.

Quote from BigEd781

Quote from Ruppgu

Life on kill is not as worthless as you make it out to be.

1.) While leveling up an alt, I had a weapon with 1k+ life on kill (it was a reduced level requirement item) and it was AWESOME. I was immortal.

What is useful while leveling is irrelevant; leveling is brain-dead easy.

2.) When you reach top tiers of gear, life on kill is really neat. I find it's a useful and much cheaper version of life return for my WD. LoH is very expensive and does not work very well with zombie bears. Lifesteal only comes on my mainhand so if I want my life return, I get life on kill from rings. It heals quite a bit on trash when you're killing 5-6 monsters at a time. It allows me to run into the middle of massive mobs with 25k HP and come out without a scratch. It's not worthless.

What works for killing large packs of white mobs is not all that relevant either; white mobs are easy. You need life while fighting elites, not after killing them. Life after kill is a worthless stat, and certainly not comparable in any way to LoH.

I'd have no problem finding it on pre-60 gear, but on inferno gear? No thanks.

Stop talking in absolutes.

How is it worthless if I find it useful?

I can play more recklessly with having a bit of life on kill so it speeds up my runs. That itself is worthwhile right there. I don't care if you think whites are worthless. The only thing I care about is time spent during a run and that makes killing whites the most important thing for me. Elites die in under 5 seconds and the majority of time is spent inbetween packs and killing trash.

You really need to stop talking like everyone is at your gear level. Elites die quickly for me so no... I don't need healing on elites like you claim as a 100% absolute fact. Think outside your bubble please.

//edit: 2 lines got combined not making any since.