- if runes drop attuned you have a (5 classes, 20 skills each, 5 runes each skill = 5 x 20 x 5 = 500) 1/500 chance approximately to find the rune you want
This is of course nonsense, but it gave me a good thought.
5 classes
20 skills each
5 runes each
Now lets say there are 10 Random stats, each with 10 different # of stats.
5*20*5*10*10 = 50,000 possible Rank X runes
7 ranks of runes => 350,000 possible runes in total.
Now can you imagine looking through all those runes on the AH?
Without filters it would be difficult at best to sort through them all.
Even if you filter out Ranks, and classes, you still have a possible 10,000 Runes.
Why would you even want to mod D3?
...
And because they do not want you to?
Here lies the problem, the fact that people want to mod a particular game is entirely different from developer wanting people to mod their game or not. In this case blizz clearly dont want modding to happen, on the other hand, the players really want to mod the game. I just don't suddenly stop wanting to mod the game when they don't want me to. That's why emulator and sandbox development are going very fast for d3.
And by players, you mean an extraordinarily small % of the player base.
And the fact that it is against the rules, possibly the law does matter to some of those people.
PS: Yes, stopping cheating is another huge issue. I gladly give up pretty much anything to be guaranteed that.
Well in WoW there were UI (user interface) mods that allowed you to effectively moderate your character better. Statistic calculators, such as how much DPS you will deal, what your chance of critical hit is, and so on and so forth. So I guess people were expecting Diablo 3 to have similar support.
As bashiok said, that was a horrible assumption and expectation.
Why would you not mod for an engine that basically a hack-and-slash environment with heavy support for rpg elements ? Look at how the hero rpg element keep raising the bar for wc3 mods and maps.
And these 2 games are completely different, like apples and oranges.
And because they do not want you to?
What good does it do to make a map, like in that video, that no one will see or use?
You cant use it online, and there isnt even a single player, so its only useful on your fake server.
Maybe if you were a programmer you might play with it to experiment, but other than that its worthless.
Dumb luck in gear drops I can accept. That just means I'm a bit weaker than I want. Dumb luck in rune rolls means I can't play my class the way I want to. That sucks way more. It's just not the same.
I think that adding random affixes to colored runes that only appear when they're socketed into a skill is the perfect level of variation. There will still be better runes out there to look for, but in the meantime you can use the build you want to play the way you want.
If you want it to take 1,000,000 kills to get one perfect rune, that can be done without unattuned runes. Unattuned or not does not impact the rarity. Colored vs. unattuned simply means that when you do get that drop, it's useful. Just like any rare drop in Diablo is useful (whether to use, sell, trade, or give to an alt).
It's not a question of rarity, it's a question of player experience. I'm of the opinion that it just sucks more to have bad luck mean you can't play your class the way you want to play it. Character strength from gear is a different level of power than character viability from rune color.
I agree with this 110%, unattuned runes are simply a bad idea.
Just give random stats to colored runes when you place them in skills.
Lets you use the abilities you want, while giving you the ability to change builds, and still gives you something to work towards w/o it being near impossible.
If you chose one of the top 3, then quickly explain how often you cheated.
Cheating includes; Knowingly buying duped or bot'd items, using map hacks, bots, Loot grabbers, hacked items, etc...
Ohh and I let my computer bot at night, and used maphack when I played. I might have bought a couple items I suspected were duped/bot'd.
It is also dumb luck, but so are gear drops.
The mentality of the hardcore, not survival mode, D2 players is a little insane tbh. If items are not damn near impossible to get, then the game is not hard enough. Except, most of the them didnt get said items, they cheated for them.
I am fine with items and runes being uncommon, as long as its not insanely difficult to get a good Rank7 rune w/ stats.
Now please calculate for me how much gold/$ each of those lvl 13/14 gems will go for on the AH.
That is tough....
For one RANK14 Gem, and nothing else.
It takes 3^7 = 2187 gems, and 3^7/3 = 729 transmutes
Average time to farm one Rank14 gem is, 3^7/5 = 437.4 hours of playtime
Transmutes cost 50g each, and take ~5 seconds.
That is at minimum 1 hour of just transmuting, at a cost of 36,450 gold.
Not a sizable amount of gold, not even on the beta.
Meh I have seen better, someone on the Blzz D3 forums said she had an abortion for Diablo3 2011 release. Thus she concluded that she deserved a beta key, due to the delay. The thread was gone 5 mins later.
This isn't just a Tier 7 rune issue. You're not going to be swimming in runes at all. Tier 1 runes might be pretty common drops. That gives players the ability to play around with an effect to see if they even want the higher level runes of that color. But Tier 2 will be rarer, Tier 3 rarer, Tier 4 rarer, Tier 5 rarer, Tier 6 rarer, and Tier 7 rarer.
I wouldn't be surprised if you get through Hell with only seeing one or two Tier 6 runes total and maybe 3-4 Tier 5s. On average, that would give you one skill with a level 5 or 6 rune, and the rest still sub 4. It just makes a rather essential part of character customization random and frustrating. I think higher level rune drops will be rare enough that it will be exciting to get one, to not have to bother with the additional dice roll 20% shot at what you want.
To me, it all comes down to how runes are used. Runes are a part of your character's build, not a simple piece of gear. A player should have a reasonable ability to choose their build without randomness.
You don't seriously think we get through Hell once and expect to be good on lvl 5-6 runes do you? You talk about equipment as a simple piece of gear? Are you serious?
Better equipment is king in Diablo. And Runes are just another item to collect. And if you don't like the unassigned rune idea, just farm gold and get one on the AH. If they are bound to skills then you can bet it will be on the AH.
Random drops and countless runs are the hallmark of Diablo. That's why its so important that gameplay is fun, because you'll be doing it over and over and over. Level 1 & 2 runes will be very plentiful, so socket all your skills with them. Then start on level 3 & 4. If you find Nightmare mode or Hell mode too tough, its time to constantly farm for better equipment (inc runes) on a lower level), and/or join co-op games.
With enough farming, lots of luck and playing the AH, you'll eventually be decently geared. But unless you're willing to spend A LOT of time in D3, don't expect to get all the uniques or level 7 runes you are expecting. Do you think everyone who wanted a Windforce in D2 got it? Heck I've played Diablo 2 a lot and I've only every found a Stone of Jordan twice.
Idk, Rank 7 runes shouldnt be as rare as you two think. Especially if they allow attuned and unattuned runes to drop. If rank 7 runes are ridiculously hard to get, then Rank7 unattuned runes attuned to good skills w/ good stats are going to be damn near impossible to get.
If your chances to get any rune is Rare, then your chance to get an unattuned rune is 1/6 of that, and you chance to attune it to the skill you want is 1/5, and then after you have to calculate the chance of getting good stats. Add all that together and getting a good rune attacked to a good skill with good stats would be like winning the lotto.
I'm glad to see a few people have made clear that most of this stuff isn't confirmed. So a couple of thoughts along those lines..
First, as with many of you here, I think the only way this "unattuned" system would work is if unattuned runes dropped in addition to colored runes. Your entire build being subject to constant /roll is beyond frustrating.. it's a showstopper. I'm around 98% (+/- 2%) sure that Blizzard knows this.
Second, let's assume both unattuned and colored runes drop. I think unattuned runes should be vastly superior to colored runes. What I mean by vastly is open to interpretation, but in general, they should be highly coveted. That's the only way I see the addition of unattuned runes moving beyond the simply annoying mechanic of D2 charms, and actually becoming a feature that increases replay value and fun factor.
In my opinion, games in general need to be difficult and frustrating. You shouldn't be getting your loot-based dopamine reward very often, else the game loses appeal quickly. I want to really have to WORK on my character to make him strong. When a level 7 unattuned rune drops, I want to be STOKED. When I pop it into the skill, and THIS time it FINALLY tunes exactly as needed, I want to poop my pants. Is that too much to ask? Pooping my pants?
The attuned runes on good skills with good stats would be extraordinarily rare and in high demand. Thus their value would skyrocket. That could be a problem, especially for casuals.
That is a nice video, but there are a couple problems with it.
#1 It tries to estimate the time to acquire a single Rank14 gem. My estimation is a realistic time to acquire numerous rank 13s, and finally craft your 1st rank14.
#2 There is one mistake. The video says that drop rate of a specific gem is 4gems/hour, but that also means that the drop rate of the other 4 or 6 gems is also 4 gems/hour. Thus after 3.37 years, you have 4 or 6 gems, not just 1.
(4 or 6)
Currently we do not know how many gems their will be. They announced 6, but only 4 are in the items tab.
I see you mention rank 7 to be the gem dropping in Inferno. Didn't they say something about only the 5 first ranks will drop at all?
That comment is really old.
Quote from name="BAshiok 04/08/2011 10:54:15 AM PD" »
We'll probably be dropping gems a couple levels further than the 5th (as previously stated), which should help. We also want to make sure it doesn't become a pain to have a ton of gems sitting around waiting for another one to upgrade, so there may be some crafting solutions that help with that. But more importantly we expect a more robust trading system will make it much more feasible to sell off a ton of gems, earn that wealth, and then buy back into gems later when you want - and on the buyer side of that, if you have some gems and just need one more to upgrade, it will be quick and easy to go get one for a reasonable price.
Of course this one is also old, but it clearly insinuates Rank7 gems.
It also says that there will be some crafting solutions....who knows what that is though.
And as I mentioned earlier, Rank5 & 6 have time frames that are insane.
At the same rate, it would take 9 years to get 10*Rank14 gems with a Base Rank of 6, and 27 years with a base Rank of 5.
Even if you increased the drop rate to absurd levels, there is no way Rank5 becomes a viable choice.
Rank 6 is a distant maybe...you would need 15 gems per hour, one every 4 mins, to put this in the 3 year ballpark. And imo, that drop rate is just way too high, and you are still at 3 years.
With those 2 things combined, imo, it is clear evidence that Rank7 will drop in inferno.
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This is of course nonsense, but it gave me a good thought.
5 classes
20 skills each
5 runes each
Now lets say there are 10 Random stats, each with 10 different # of stats.
5*20*5*10*10 = 50,000 possible Rank X runes
7 ranks of runes => 350,000 possible runes in total.
Now can you imagine looking through all those runes on the AH?
Without filters it would be difficult at best to sort through them all.
Even if you filter out Ranks, and classes, you still have a possible 10,000 Runes.
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That 1st thread was about icons, and the 2nd thread was estimating something different, and the time listed was wrong.
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And the fact that it is against the rules, possibly the law does matter to some of those people.
PS: Yes, stopping cheating is another huge issue. I gladly give up pretty much anything to be guaranteed that.
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As bashiok said, that was a horrible assumption and expectation.
And these 2 games are completely different, like apples and oranges.
And because they do not want you to?
What good does it do to make a map, like in that video, that no one will see or use?
You cant use it online, and there isnt even a single player, so its only useful on your fake server.
Maybe if you were a programmer you might play with it to experiment, but other than that its worthless.
0
I agree with this 110%, unattuned runes are simply a bad idea.
Just give random stats to colored runes when you place them in skills.
Lets you use the abilities you want, while giving you the ability to change builds, and still gives you something to work towards w/o it being near impossible.
0
Cheating includes; Knowingly buying duped or bot'd items, using map hacks, bots, Loot grabbers, hacked items, etc...
Ohh and I let my computer bot at night, and used maphack when I played. I might have bought a couple items I suspected were duped/bot'd.
0
The mentality of the hardcore, not survival mode, D2 players is a little insane tbh. If items are not damn near impossible to get, then the game is not hard enough. Except, most of the them didnt get said items, they cheated for them.
I am fine with items and runes being uncommon, as long as its not insanely difficult to get a good Rank7 rune w/ stats.
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0
That is tough....
For one RANK14 Gem, and nothing else.
It takes 3^7 = 2187 gems, and 3^7/3 = 729 transmutes
Average time to farm one Rank14 gem is, 3^7/5 = 437.4 hours of playtime
Transmutes cost 50g each, and take ~5 seconds.
That is at minimum 1 hour of just transmuting, at a cost of 36,450 gold.
Not a sizable amount of gold, not even on the beta.
If Rank5 = $___ & $0.01 & $0.05
Rank5 ---> ____ --> 0.01 --> 0.05
Rank6 ---> ____ --> 0.03 --> 0.15
Rank7 ---> 0.01 --> 0.09 --> 0.45
Rank8 ---> 0.03 --> 0.27 --> 1.35
Rank9 ---> 0.09 --> 0.81 --> 4.05
Rank10 --> 0.27 --> 2.43 --> 12.15
Rank11 --> 0.81 --> 7.29 --> 36.45
Rank12 --> 2.43 --> 21.87 -> 109.35
Rank13 --> 7.29 --> 65.61 -> 328.05
Rank14 -> 21.87 -> 196.83 -> 984.15
If,
Rank5 gem = 10 gold, 1*Rank14 gem = 200,000 gold (2 hundred thousand)
Rank5 gem = 100 gold, 1*Rank14 gem = 2,000,000 gold (2 million)
Rank5 gem = 1000 gold, 1*Rank14 gem = 20,000,000 gold (20 million)
If you make $8 an hour, and you ignore the other items you pickup(Horrible Assumption), it would cost you about $3500 per Rank14 gem.
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Meh I have seen better, someone on the Blzz D3 forums said she had an abortion for Diablo3 2011 release. Thus she concluded that she deserved a beta key, due to the delay. The thread was gone 5 mins later.
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Idk, Rank 7 runes shouldnt be as rare as you two think. Especially if they allow attuned and unattuned runes to drop. If rank 7 runes are ridiculously hard to get, then Rank7 unattuned runes attuned to good skills w/ good stats are going to be damn near impossible to get.
If your chances to get any rune is Rare, then your chance to get an unattuned rune is 1/6 of that, and you chance to attune it to the skill you want is 1/5, and then after you have to calculate the chance of getting good stats. Add all that together and getting a good rune attacked to a good skill with good stats would be like winning the lotto.
Lol, I did not catch that.
I am hoping it was some poorly chosen words....I usually play games to relieve frustration.
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The attuned runes on good skills with good stats would be extraordinarily rare and in high demand. Thus their value would skyrocket. That could be a problem, especially for casuals.
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That is a nice video, but there are a couple problems with it.
#1 It tries to estimate the time to acquire a single Rank14 gem. My estimation is a realistic time to acquire numerous rank 13s, and finally craft your 1st rank14.
#2 There is one mistake. The video says that drop rate of a specific gem is 4gems/hour, but that also means that the drop rate of the other 4 or 6 gems is also 4 gems/hour. Thus after 3.37 years, you have 4 or 6 gems, not just 1.
(4 or 6)
Currently we do not know how many gems their will be. They announced 6, but only 4 are in the items tab.
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Of course this one is also old, but it clearly insinuates Rank7 gems.
It also says that there will be some crafting solutions....who knows what that is though.
And as I mentioned earlier, Rank5 & 6 have time frames that are insane.
At the same rate, it would take 9 years to get 10*Rank14 gems with a Base Rank of 6, and 27 years with a base Rank of 5.
Even if you increased the drop rate to absurd levels, there is no way Rank5 becomes a viable choice.
Rank 6 is a distant maybe...you would need 15 gems per hour, one every 4 mins, to put this in the 3 year ballpark. And imo, that drop rate is just way too high, and you are still at 3 years.
With those 2 things combined, imo, it is clear evidence that Rank7 will drop in inferno.
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They only do it for the PR.
I think they expected a 2011 release, and screwed up by offering the Beta way too early.