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Imagine if he'd had a damage shrine... there's one that increases crit damage isn't there? Or is my mind failing me?

Each resource has it's own item modifiers that are typically only found on the class specific gear.

The #1 I want to see is options. As many options as possible. Be they options abouit how to build your class, how to gear your character, or how to GET that gear. I want options.

Quote from Kenorwoks

I think they are trying to make a system so that you can just kill everything and have it all be equally rewarding, including bosses, and I think that is all what we really hope for.

That is EXACTLY what I hope for.

I want to be able to log in, think to myself 'what do I want to kill today' and not feel like I'm restricted in how I answer that question based off of bad loot mechanics.

Edit: @Emyln, the defense seems strong because it really bothers me to watch people be 1) Selfish and 2) Illogical at the same time. Logic would dictate that a system that allows all hard monsters to be equally rewarding based off of the time it takes to kill them would be fun for everyone by allowing everyone to choose what they wish to do and be rewarded for it, but people are saying that such a system would negatively impact them somehow - which is illogical.

Selflessness would dictate that people would be happy if others were ALSO able to have fun as long as it didn't take away from their own, but people are saying that they'd rather that other people are NOT allowed to have fun because they want their way to be the only way - which is selfish.

It's really a necessary change. They had two options: 1) They could give every caster weapon essentially a +spell damage effect or 2) They could base the spells off weapon damage.

Option 1 would mean that casters couldn't EVER use non-caster weapons, which would really limit itemization. So option 2 is the natural choice.


To the person who said LotR worked like this... Please... please. Read the books. Please. Like... Please.

I think mine did that as well at some point when I wasn't looking, but I'm going to bed anyways so since it'll be done before tomorrow I'm fine with however big it is

Boub... I don't care enough about mmo-champ being efficient to do so. I do, whoever, care about this site, however, so I hope your meddling doesn't result in the same problems that happened there. That's prettymuch all there is to say.

Patch is up now - Unfortunately it won't let me copy the notes from the downloader lol

but it's a biiiiiiig one.

the invites would go out once the servers are stable most likely

servers are still down. No patch is available for donwload yet.

We know their reasoning, and we think it's stupid. That's why we're posting. Not because we want bosses to be 'the way to go' but because we want bosses to feel meaningful. We want bosses to be a reasonable option. I'd love to be able to mix it up - do boss runs one day do act 2 runs another do secret <blank> level another...

Etc.


But this system removes the ability to include bosses in that rotation of 'things to do' and that makes me truly sad.

In d2 bosses are harder than ALL champions. Because Champions have no affixes. As far as non-super-unique rares go there were really only a couple of combos that were even difficult. MSLE, con/fe/gloam+con... those are really the 3. Any other rare and there were THOUSANDS of other rares were really cake.

But no, if bosses are not at least PROPORTIONAL to rares then NOBODY will EVER kill them more than once per character. If you're saying anything else, you're foolish really.

Even in the beta - there are typically 4-5 rares or champion sets PER FLOOR on EVERY floor of nearly every major dungeon. I doubt the numbers are going to go down in higher difficulties - I'd be very much surprised if they didn't go up.

But even if that IS the case, you're wasting your time to kill a boss. It's MOST LIKELY to be more difficult, it will take longer(absolutely - even in d2 bosses nearly always took significantly longer than champions to kill), and it will reward less loot. Why even bother?

People will do whatever it is that gets them the most gear the fastest. Look at d2: Everyone did Pindle, Meph and sometimes Shenk. Not because those were the most fun. But because they gave them the highest chance-per-hour of getting the loot they wanted with the lowest risk.

That trend will continue no matter what Blizzard implements - people will go for the highest efficiency with the lowest risk. Now, of course Blizzard wants to spread it out some. Brilliant idea, I'm glad to see it. But the current plan completely cuts bosses out of the equation because they will be lower efficiency than something you can find by turning a corner.

Edit: It makes NO DIFFERENCE AT ALL. Even if bosses had an EQUAL DROPRATE to champions and rares. 100% equal. People would still avoid them. Risk-reward. Bosses are typically harder than your average rare or champion and take longer. So higher risk for lower reward. People will ALSO avoid those rare champions that have modifiers that make THEM exceptionally difficult for the same reason. It will just be more efficient to just skip them.

I'm not saying Blizzard should implement a system that encourages boss farming - just that they should modify the system so it doesn't actively DISCOURAGE them. There are people out there who enjoy boss runs - why PUNISH them?

Farming bosses WILL be useless unless they have a droprate proportional to the amount of time it takes to kill them. If bosses have, as is currently implied, a lower droprate than champions - it WILL 100% absolutely no question mean that NOBODY on hardcore and NEARLY NOBODY on softcore will ever kill a boss more than once. It's a very simple if-then statement. If bosses do not provide rewards equal to their challenge when you kill them, people will not do them. Regardless of how static they are or how predictable. If the reward is not equal to the challenge, they will be ignored.

There is NO WAY that bosses will be easier than the average champion. Yes, there will be the rare chance of getting a perfect set of modifiers on a champion that makes him nigh-unkillable. Absolutely. But those chances are much like getting a perfect item. Sure it happens sometimes, but you can't really expect it

Tekkiller that is actually the entire point of our comments. The information they've provided us mnakes it feel like they ARE going counter to the objective of increasing flexibility, so we are expressing our concerns. How is it that people cannot understand that? We're not saying Blizzard can't fix it, we're not even saying it would be HARD to fix. We're not saying that such things won't be adjusted even. Just that these are the concerns we see with the CURRENTLY DISCUSSED SYSTEM.

So final statement:

Yes, I know it's fixable. Yes I know it's EASILY fixable. But the information we have points to a situation where bosses have inferior droprates to mere champions. This leads me to the point which I will express in code:

If(BossLootChance != BossChallenge) Then(BossKillPerPlayer = 1)

I don't really think anyone can argue with the above statement... it's as close to factual as anything can be in this sort of a discussion.


Edit: One small thing to be aware of. Monsters like Lord DeSeis would be considered bosses in Diablo 3. They weren't 'rare mobs' they were unique mobs. They were always there, always in the same or similar spot, and always had a certain pre-set modifier set in addition to random mods at higher difficulties. There was a reason they were often referred to as 'super-rare' or 'super-unique' mobs. They're sort of the equivalent to Leoric in Diablo 3's beta. So yes, Lord DeSeis is a boss.