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@ mattheo:
I don't hink thrown trap would be OP'd. It would create a balancing issue but so does every skill. To me, that is like saying "why play a barb when you can play a wizard and blast away the enemies from a safe distance". Every class has their own strengths and weaknesses. Maybe the fifth class has to rely on this diversion tactic because their weapon damage is not very strong. It is a differen play style but not an OP'd one. it sems similar to skelemancers. Pull monsters and let the skeletons do all of the work. I do agree that AI will be better and could be programmed to attack or flee the traps.

I also would like the traps to be more of a utility skill rather than a damage skill. As mentioned, most "elements" of damage are being used by the other classes. I think having traps that ensnare, weaken, or strengthen yourself could give this class a unique ability and it could help avoid people throwing in a bunch in a letting them do everything.

Blizzard still said they wanted to add "auras". Maybethis couldbe their way of doing it.

@ temporalsky:
I don't think the traps need to be stepped in, more of a proximity situation and throwing the traps would also help. Also, I think we all can agree that the last class will have bows but what will make the class stand out. Thy have to have some sort of special damage type other than just range. What do you think it will be?

I honestly believe that traps are really cool in concept but were applied poorly in D2. I don't believe traps should be made as a main damage output skill. The character should have this responsibility.

On the other hand I do believe that if traps were made so as to help out in different situations by offering various boosts, then they wouldn't become overpowered.

Such as confuse traps(obvious), blinding traps(also obvious), silence traps(anti-casters), gravity traps (pull on enemy forces and projectile deviation). etc. etc.

They could efficiently become strategical tools instead of nukes like they used to be in D2.

Complete with a strong character setup, they could make up for any build's weakness. Melee builds would find Blind Traps, or Silence Traps very useful. Ranged Builds would tend to go more for Grav Traps and Confuse traps to keep enemies at a safe distance. Etc.

I don't think that the character has to be he source for most of the damage. People love playing summoning classes where they rely on their summons for their damage.

My favorite build was a summoning Druid where I ran around disabling the monsters with shockwave while my pets ran around and killed everything. It still took skill even though I wasn't the source of the damage.

I want to be able to summon dragons. Make them look progressively cooler and more powerful. Then later on be able to summon a few really powerful ones. Maybe go out side the typical dragon and be able to summon a dragon that breathes ice, one that does the typical fire, and the one that does the typical lightning. Each of them being immune to their own element..

Quote from "scyberdragon" »

I don't think that the character has to be he source for most of the damage. People love playing summoning classes where they rely on their summons for their damage.

Yes but this is a different situation where summons are creatures that can be attacked and killed easily without proper support from the player.

Unlike traps which monsters can't even target, run away from or even do anything for that matters. So it's totally over powered. Specially for the fact that summons won't go much anywhere without the main char going there first.

True, traps would have to be altered to be targeted or fleed from. However, with my Druid, my wolves would constantly run ahead and clear rooms before I got there.

Quote from "temporalsky" »

I want to be able to summon dragons. Make them look progressively cooler and more powerful. Then later on be able to summon a few really powerful ones. Maybe go out side the typical dragon and be able to summon a dragon that breathes ice, one that does the typical fire, and the one that does the typical lightning. Each of them being immune to their own element..

Dragons are cool, I admit.

But this idea IMHO would be horrible. Dragons are supposed to be the strongest, single most powerfull creatures even in Sanctuary. So if you made that they could be summoned, they would be either overpowered (that's an understatement) OR they would be made underpowered to keep game balancee and which would consequently ruin the IDEA of a DRAGON. Thus making them look stupidly weak.

@ Scyberdragon

1) your wolves often went in rooms before you but not always since u cant control them.

2) Wolves would get owned anywhere past Hell Act 1, so it's kinda irrelevant.

3) Traps can be thrown, thus controlled. You could stay outside a room indefinately and just keep on throwing shit inside, whereas wolves would only slightly enter, if your char ever backed away from the door slightly, they would try to run back, as most summons would to stay with the caster.

okay then, how about a dragon as an intermediate boss, maybe as a guard to one of the final bosses?

Then Perhaps some sort of flying creatures similar to how i described earlier would suffice.

There were no traps in D2. There were sentrys, but not traps.

Wow..

I just can't think of anything else to say but....(Cough...Trapsin...Cough)


It's the same thing with a different name. It was and will always be considered a trap assassin. They just slapped a cool name on them.

So you don't get confused by all the words being used I'll give you the exact definition;

2. A stratagem for catching or tricking an unwary person.
3. A confining or undesirable circumstance from which escape or relief is difficult

So basically you can call anything relating to this a trap. Consequently bringing me back to D2, which was a term commonly used to refer to the "sentrys" as you so put it. They had a good concept going but were applied poorly.


PS: I hope your not planning on turning this into another one of those 99.9999999 % NO, means 0.0000000000000001 % Yes discussions.....

Well, technically speaking, the assassin's tree was called traps not sentry. However, some of the skills had the name sentry added to them such as the death sentry. I look at traps as both. I think there could be some that simple discharge once when a monster it close proximity triggers it but I would also like sentrys that emanate for a short duration. I think utilizing both would be vital.

I also think with some balancing, the traps would not be OP'd. There are a number of ways to balance them out. Through weaker damage, being targetable, or AI to flee from traps, or not being able to throw them too far, or monsters AI to attack the character who is using the traps. Unlike D2 I think the monsters AI will allow them to leave the room and attack the person throwing the traps. In D2 it would have been unfair because you could simply stay out of sight and launch all of the traps and kill everyone without any problems. I think in D3 the monsters will be smart enough to come after you even if you are not in sight. therefore you could avoid

You could stay outside a room indefinately and just keep on throwing shit inside

Other than traps, I wonder what other kind of skills the last class could have. There is still the possibility of the last class having one or two really strong pets to contradict the WD's summons. I don't know what form the pets would take (hopefully not animals, too similar to druid) but they would be more dependable than the multiple minions of the WD. The pet could have skills of their own to utilize and level up. Not like in wow where they have their own tree but skills in your tree improve the pet(s). Sort of like going from the wolves to the dire wolves but more expansive. You could control if your pet(s) became a tank or damager.

I personally love micromanaging in games like this. I think having a pet or two plus some utility traps would be a very fun and different way of playing compared to the other classes so far.

Well, technically speaking, the assassin's tree was called traps not sentry. However, some of the skills had the name sentry added to them such as the death sentry. I look at traps as both. I think there could be some that simple discharge once when a monster it close proximity triggers it but I would also like sentrys that emanate for a short duration. I think utilizing both would be vital.

I also think with some balancing, the traps would not be OP'd. There are a number of ways to balance them out. Through weaker damage, being targetable, or AI to flee from traps, or not being able to throw them too far, or monsters AI to attack the character who is using the traps. Unlike D2 I think the monsters AI will allow them to leave the room and attack the person throwing the traps. In D2 it would have been unfair because you could simply stay out of sight and launch all of the traps and kill everyone without any problems. I think in D3 the monsters will be smart enough to come after you even if you are not in sight. therefore you could avoid

You could stay outside a room indefinately and just keep on throwing shit inside

Other than traps, I wonder what other kind of skills the last class could have. There is still the possibility of the last class having one or two really strong pets to contradict the WD's summons. I don't know what form the pets would take (hopefully not animals, too similar to druid) but they would be more dependable than the multiple minions of the WD. The pet could have skills of their own to utilize and level up. Not like in wow where they have their own tree but skills in your tree improve the pet(s). Sort of like going from the wolves to the dire wolves but more expansive. You could control if your pet(s) became a tank or damager.

I personally love micromanaging in games like this. I think having a pet or two plus some utility traps would be a very fun and different way of playing compared to the other classes so far.

bow and 2handed axe wave of mice go go MICE!

Quote from "scyberdragon" »

I do agree that AI will be better and could be programmed to attack or flee the traps.

I also would like the traps to be more of a utility skill rather than a damage skill. As mentioned, most "elements" of damage are being used by the other classes. I think having traps that ensnare, weaken, or strengthen yourself could give this class a unique ability and it could help avoid people throwing in a bunch in a letting them do everything.

Blizzard still said they wanted to add "auras". Maybethis couldbe their way of doing it.

:thumbsup: ohhh yeah, I love the way you think

Indeed, the trap must be set up quickly, to keep you in action. Destructible trap is possible.

@Emil : :confused: you play with the words ??? traps / sentry... Sentry aren't a good name for traps in d2... "Traps" is a common name used to cover many kind of gameplay (traps definition: something you set up and be useful to do something)

Quote from temporalsky »

I want to be able to summon dragons. Make them look progressively cooler and more powerful. Then later on be able to summon a few really powerful ones. Maybe go out side the typical dragon and be able to summon a dragon that breathes ice, one that does the typical fire, and the one that does the typical lightning. Each of them being immune to their own element..

...I don't like, I don't know why, maybe I don't see a dragon fit in the world of diablo. Dragon in game are over-used, it's too stereotyped.

Quote from "luc1027" »

(traps definition: something you set up and be useful to do something).

LoL!

Could you tell us which dictionnary you took that from?:facepalm:

But still, I disagree with any kind of automated trap/system/sentry that would imput damage without a player having to do anything UNLESS it was a very fragile concept that would be complemented by good AI that would immediately seek to destroy it.

This way it would actually have to be used as a "trap" instead of a sentry gun that just annihilates everything. A trap should be set in a secret location and sprung dealing quick, devestating damage or critical effects that would hinder monsters. Not just thrown in the middle of a fight and have it act like a nuke.

Quote from "mattheo_majik" »

LoL!

Could you tell us which dictionnary you took that from?:facepalm:

But still, I disagree with any kind of automated trap/system/sentry that would imput damage without a player having to do anything UNLESS it was a very fragile concept that would be complemented by good AI that would immediately seek to destroy it.

This way it would actually have to be used as a "trap" instead of a sentry gun that just annihilates everything. A trap should be set in a secret location and sprung dealing quick, devestating damage or critical effects that would hinder monsters. Not just thrown in the middle of a fight and have it act like a nuke.

LOL, definition from a game view. I'm extremly disagree with "traps" who only do damage (eurkkk boring) It's why I want utility traps (could replace auras)

Quote from "emilemil1" »

Sounds like totems to me. And more like stationary summons than traps. You have a very odd definition of "trap".

AHAH you really play with words... We don't care how we name it. When I said "trap" I talk about a kind of gameplay (totems, sentry, stationary summons, etc) all those words mean : something you set up on ground that help you either attacking, defending or helping you with boosting stats... etc

When you work on something, why calling the same kind of thing many differents manner ? When I worked in video games, any designers named "traps" when they talk about all features with the same kind of gameplay...

I think "trap" regroup : totems, sentry, stationary summons and all others synonymous you can bring...

You seem to only wanting to contradict me, even if you understand what I mean.

Ohhh lol thank you for the teaching and the beautiful picture...

I think "device" word will better fit for re-groupe all kind of traps, totem...etc

Quote from "luc1027" »

I find any ranged (bow) characters that they never pwn.

You obviously didn't play Diablo2 version 1.09. Well over half of the population were amazons because they pwned HARD.

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Does anyone remember the Witch Doctor's Black Magic damage type? Not sure if they removed it, but it belonged to one his Spirit skills if I remember correctly. I even recall a developer (or possibly bashiok) mentioning the skill and touching down on damage type and saying he didn't want to complicate things through resistance and having to equip items for resistance for individual damage types. To that, he said there are many possible solutions. Just thought I'd mention that since no one has yet brought it up.

For the next class, I think the bows+(traps+auras) is a very good idea; I remember Jay Wilson saying he'd like to do auras for a character but the Monk would be too obvious, so that makes it seem even more likely. For this bow class, I'd like to see more sniper-style skills, moving the class out of the crowd-control territory into the specialized/massive damager. Of course, they'll still have some comparitively less powerful AoE attacks.

Quote from "Rocksteady" »

You obviously didn't play Diablo2 version 1.09. Well over half of the population were amazons because they pwned HARD.

I think I never played this patch ? ... I think you can pwd but only if you have the only one unique bow (the best) any others bows, are craps... and I think on the version 1.00, the amazon, with the targeting arrow and a passive skill your arrows can perce monster and return on the same target infinitly (yes very good but with health leech you'are invisible lol, so they remove this great trick ...)

Quote from "Rocksteady" »

Does anyone remember the Witch Doctor's Black Magic damage type? Not sure if they removed it, but it belonged to one his Spirit skills if I remember correctly. I even recall a developer (or possibly bashiok) mentioning the skill and touching down on damage type and saying he didn't want to complicate things through resistance and having to equip items for resistance for individual damage types. To that, he said there are many possible solutions. Just thought I'd mention that since no one has yet brought it up.

I like it (bold quote)

Quote from "Rocksteady" »

For the next class, I think the bows+(traps+auras) is a very good idea; I remember Jay Wilson saying he'd like to do auras for a character but the Monk would be too obvious, so that makes it seem even more likely. For this bow class, I'd like to see more sniper-style skills, moving the class out of the crowd-control territory into the specialized/massive damager. Of course, they'll still have some comparitively less powerful AoE attacks.

yes it's true auras will be certainly for the fifth class !!

I like your idea to be more "sniper-style" ! Normally bow has a slow attack, so logically for balancing it's need to do more damage, but don't forget your weapon has a ranged attack (I think the bows need to do a little bit less damage than 2 hands swords)




Other question ?

Do you think if d3 had bows, blizzard will made an arrows system like d2 ? or for the gameplay they will forget that (infinite arrow like TQ and certainly many others games) ?