There's a lot of potential for a bow using class that hasn't been touched on in the past games, so I'm sure we'll see another one.
I don't understand some of the thinking in this thread. In my opinion, traps don't work well in this type of game. Neither does anything related to stealth or sneakiness. The game moves too fast for that kind of a class.
Ok. So all class should just throw a massive destruction skill that 1 hit everythng in it's path, this way the game will be fast enough for you ?
Answer me what is Wall of Zumbie if not a horizontall trap ?
What is Slow Time if not a spheric slow trap against melee enemies ?
You guys take this fast pace talk to serious and think that this game will be like Mario Kart, but your character are the car and the monster 're the coins ¬¬
Yes, D3 shall have a stealth class that rely on agility and tricks to survive/kill.
Ok. So all class should just throw a massive destruction skill that 1 hit everythng in it's path, this way the game will be fast enough for you ?
Answer me what is Wall of Zumbie if not a horizontall trap ?
What is Slow Time if not a spheric slow trap against melee enemies ?
You guys take this fast pace talk to serious and think that this game will be like Mario Kart, but your character are the car and the monster 're the coins ¬¬
I don't think that at all. Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said that every class should just 1 hit kill everything. I'm talking about stealth and other stuff related to sneaking around.
Wall of Zombies, Bone Wall, etc are all a kind of trap. You are right about that. What dub Lucifer is talking about is VERY different from that kind of skill. Please read his last post on page two. He's talking about sneaking around patrol units for Christ's sake.
Diablo: Tactical Espionage Action
I wish I had photo editing skills.
I think I'm gonna need some more time away from Diablo forums.
I don't think that at all. Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said that every class should just 1 hit kill everything. I'm talking about stealth and other stuff related to sneaking around.
Wall of Zombies, Bone Wall, etc are all a kind of trap. You are right about that. What dub Lucifer is talking about is VERY different from that kind of skill. Please read his last post on page two. He's talking about sneaking around patrol units for Christ's sake.
Diablo: Tactical Espionage Action
I wish I had photo editing skills.
I think I'm gonna need some more time away from Diablo forums.
Trap objection solved, now comes the stealth one.
What defines a class in diablo are not only how you kill your enemies, but how you don't let then kill you.
Barbarian will do it by charging, stunning, leaping, having a big hp.
Wiz will do it by slowing time, freezing, teleporting around, killing from distance.
WD di it by confusing, causing fear and summoning.
All I ask is a class that escape from death by vanishing, blinding the enemy, setting traps, dashing or killing by distance with ranged weapons. I don't think this kind of stuff are slower then other classes defensive powers.
About that guys idea, i guess he have played MGS4 and forgot how diablo's work >_<'
All I ask is a class that escape from death by vanishing, blinding the enemy, setting traps, dashing or killing by distance with ranged weapons. I don't think this kind of stuff are slower then other classes defensive powers.
Some of those things you're asking for are fulfilled through other classes. The Wizard can teleport which can be used as a way of escaping death. The Witch Doctor will probably have some sort of blind skill under his spirit tree.
I want a ranged class as much as any one, but I can't be as assertive as some of you are about how it should be made. If I did know how it should be made, I'd probably be at Blizzard HQ workin' on the damn thing. I'm only trying to point out how absurd some of the ideas (however cool they may be) are for this game. I just want to see class ideas kept to a realistic view. Based purely on what we've seen in the game and what we've heard from the developers. What you're talking about is totally realistic, by the way.
I think a cool idea for a ranged class is something similar to the Paragon in Guild Wars. A holy spear chucking badass. Uh...
Of course, though, since we can still expect a support character to come back, my idea would be to combine the two into a new class (a support class that happens to use ranged weaponry, like the Paragon in Guild Wars). Then there's room left for a completely new class.
Also the fire arrows should cause some enemies to burst into flames, fire catching onto everything it touches.
The archer should be the equivalent of a modern sniper.
Stealthy, Deadly, Necessary.
It would also be cool if he had Holy arrow or Light arrow, causing irreparable damage to the undead and demons.
Realistically, you should be able to sneak up on a group of enemies. In D2 it did not matter what you did, as soon as you reached a certain distance the enemy knew you were there regardless of how quiet or hidden you were, this was also mainly because of the stale d2 environments.
I want to have a stealth class, everything from the type of boots you are wearing to the gems in your inventory, to the type of armor you have equipped, to the direction the wind is blowing, should contribute to a noise/awareness level which affects your ability to sneak around and ambush enemies.
A relatively perfect assassin archer would be able to avidly sneak up on most type's of monsters, into prime position and deliver quite a bit of damage in their ambush before discovered, many times having this advantage will be critical. Setting traps would be a good idea before you unleash hell (or heaven in this case) upon them.
Just think if enemy AI actually patrolled area's like guards, and actually behaved in a manor, suiting of hells army. (occasionally stopping to torture some poor soul, or gamble with each other or get into fights amongst themselves, or reinforce a barricade or outpost) I don't want to see a giant clusterfluck of enemies , randomly scattered throughout the game, doing nothing but idling, waiting for you to come in range... I want to see some structure please.
For example, an assassin should be able to sneak behind a patrolling guard, slipping a particularly powerful explosive inside his satchel , disposing of a multitude of high end demons in one swift blast. Why not just throw it at them? This Ai is so good they see your attempt and be ready to toss it away or back at you at any moment. This AI should be at the level of almost impossibly endless scenarios.
I anticipate some parts of D3 are going to take hours to get past, while only facing a few select , unbelievably powerful foes, before facing off against the boss!
In light of Blizzards new AI /Enviroment changes and upgrades I already know a stealthy assasin class is inevivtable, lets just hope they make this one right, a skilled bow warrior, with insight and skill as well as stealth of unimaginable proportions.
That would be awesome. This is what I was thinking but add in some melee.
I hate that the AI knows you are there the minute you aggro them! I mean, if you have a skill (like in DnD the Rogue's don't tigger aggro if they are smart) then you shouldn't. You should be able to sneak attack and pull like a rogue is supposed to do.
Let me just say this:
Nexus TK had rogues who could go invisible and they wouldn't aggro because of this skill and it was TONS of fun. Nexus TK was a 2D downaloadable game I would play for 10 bucks a month. If they can do it, D3 can!
bowazons were fun bring something with bows back bc javelins were meh to me even though they owned the javelin seemed like a barbaric attack to me more than anything
Well we already know taht a bow class is going to retur because of the drops in the first demo.
But I'm sure the class will be different and probably be a melee/ranged hybrid of some kind. Probably like the assassin/rogue hybrid already discussed.
I never cared for the bowzon. I made one javazon and she didn't do as well as I had seen others do. Maybe I didn't use farcast and that is the trick with them I dunno she sucked. While the bowa mowed shit down I was mostly too far away from drops to get anything of value when playing in a party. I mostly ran her solo and that is no fun to me.
It would be cool if the bow that dropped in the gameplay video was for a hireable mercenary. That maybe there is no bow class and blizzard is just doing what it does in being the masters at misperception. They did state that everything that dropped was hand picked. But there will almost definitely be a bow class I'd say.
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The blind mind's eye replies with a sigh and a tear of contempt for those who see the world as it truly is.
Well, if you think about it, the bow class is basically the same thing as a caster class. In most RPGs, ranged characters do less damage and have more defense than casters but that's not the case in Diablo because all characters are DPS and are supposed to do the same amount of damage. So what's the difference between the two?
That's part of the reason why I'd like them to either not have a ranged class at all, or combine the ranged class with the support class.
Except there won't be a support class, cause it defeats the purpose of them all being DPS classes who can solo just fine by themselves.
its diablo, you know theres probably gunna be some sort of bow class, maybe not a javelin based character....since i cant see how you could make something that different than from d2 (enchanting with magic damage is just an alteration of the amazons skills). the same can be said about bows....but you know. its a medieval game, theres gotta be an archer game
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(this build was before D3 launched... looking back on it now - i had no idea what i was doing)
In the videos, there's a scene where the barbarian picks up a pair of bow npc assistants. So they have modelled bows in the game.
How about a Hunter?
Tracking - monsters leave footprint trails visible to the Hunter. Skill upgrade makes the trails last longer. Might also put arrows at the edge of the screen and/or blips on the minimap. Monsters with walking/idle sounds could be heard from much farther away.
Trapping - can set up a covered pit (with spikes), a drop net, a pop-up net bag, a spring-loaded foot-noose, trip-wired fire bombs, trip-wired falling rocks. Might even use a hand-held net as a snare weapon.
Camoflage - can blend in with the scenery, making himself nearly undetectable. Advances include stealth walk and silent run, with smaller aggro rings.
Wilderness Survival - Extensive knowledge of outdoor plantlife, and how to get the most out of butchering game. Gets better food drops, herbs, ingredients, and bonuses on the health hearts. An upgrade could offer minor healing (first aid) skill.
Might be able to have or tame an animal pet.
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My five-point rating system: Yay, Kay, Meh, Erm, Gleh
In the videos, there's a scene where the barbarian picks up a pair of bow npc assistants. So they have modelled bows in the game.
How about a Hunter?
Tracking - monsters leave footprint trails visible to the Hunter. Skill upgrade makes the trails last longer. Might also put arrows at the edge of the screen and/or blips on the minimap. Monsters with walking/idle sounds could be heard from much farther away.
Trapping - can set up a covered pit (with spikes), a drop net, a pop-up net bag, a spring-loaded foot-noose, trip-wired fire bombs, trip-wired falling rocks. Might even use a hand-held net as a snare weapon.
Camoflage - can blend in with the scenery, making himself nearly undetectable. Advances include stealth walk and silent run, with smaller aggro rings.
Wilderness Survival - Extensive knowledge of outdoor plantlife, and how to get the most out of butchering game. Gets better food drops, herbs, ingredients, and bonuses on the health hearts. An upgrade could offer minor healing (first aid) skill.
Might be able to have or tame an animal pet.
Why would you want to TRACK monsters in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
Why would you want to TRAP a monster in a hole in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
Why would you want to be undetectable to monsters in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
IM sorry but stealth in this game is stupid. Monsters in diablo are nothing but lemmings. why are you going to go invisiable and sneak up on them? whats the point? what a waste of time. this isnt WoW.
if there is some kind of invisible skill, it has to be something that has like a 5min cooldown and only lasts a second (to not get surrounded). any other purpose is really stupid.
Im hoping they bring a bow class back. they can do some awesome stuff if they do it right.
Today (Feb 1st, 2009) is at least a year before the game is released, and two classes haven't been revealed. We have seen skelleton archers, and npc/assistant archers. I predict that one of the remaining two classes will wield a bow. It will be a ranged class that kills monsters from a distance, before they get close.
In order to deal ranged damage the bow wielder will want tools that slow down and impede the progress of enemies. Tools that keep the enemy at a distance, and enhance the ability to kill from far away.
Wading through the center of 100s of mobs is the job of a barbarian. A bow wielder kills from across the screen.
The actual killing of 100s of mobs is a design choice, implemented by balancing how many hit points monsters have vs how much damage players dish out. One-shot kills will probably be quite common in Diablo-3, and even multi-kill shots.
Dungeon Seige, Hellgate:Londong, and others like them had monsters with 50000+ hitpoints. Players fought by kicking them in the shins several dozen times, until they keeled over. Diablo-3 has shifted the power balance, giving players the strength to easily kill teaming hoards of monsters.
It is my guess that this is related to their advances in game engine technology, allowing them to have many monsters on screen at once. Which they probably did expressly for this purpose.
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My five-point rating system: Yay, Kay, Meh, Erm, Gleh
If they are to give us a class similar to the Amazon, and another to the Paladin, then what's the point of "Creating 5 new and distinct characters" ? An entirely new concept using the basis of a ranged weapon would be easier to swallow (no/homo), on condition that such a character inherits little to nothing at all from its predecessor, the Amazon.
Why would you want to TRACK monsters in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
Why would you want to TRAP a monster in a hole in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
Why would you want to be undetectable to monsters in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
IM sorry but stealth in this game is stupid. Monsters in diablo are nothing but lemmings. why are you going to go invisiable and sneak up on them? whats the point? what a waste of time. this isnt WoW.
if there is some kind of invisible skill, it has to be something that has like a 5min cooldown and only lasts a second (to not get surrounded). any other purpose is really stupid.
Im hoping they bring a bow class back. they can do some awesome stuff if they do it right.
If monster going to be ''lemmiling'', we kill 100 of then per minute and the only strategy involved in is walk foward and attack, the only thing that will be worthless is Diablo 3.
A game like D2 don't work nowdays. Yes, D2 are played nowdays, but only by old fans. And is very clear that the target public in D3 are not the old fan base.
You say traps and invisibility makes no sense in Diablo. Tell me what is Wall of Zombies if not a linear Trap?
What is Slow Time if not a Slow Trap pluss a slow massile effect ?
And what stealth would do: You become invisible and enemies run around looking for you.
What WD"s Horrify do: You cast fear upon your enemy and they run away.
Whats the difference ? Why should it have 5min cooldown as horrify dont'? Why could I not use my stealth to reach a strategic target (like a enemy that use revive/heal or a ranged glass canon) ?
You guys take to serious what the devs said about the game will be even more fast passed then D2. Theres many many different ways to do it and not make the game totally retard with walking boxes instead of enemies.
We will surely have a bow class, but I hope it is not simple like the zon.
If monster going to be ''lemmiling'', we kill 100 of then per minute and the only strategy involved in is walk foward and attack, the only thing that will be worthless is Diablo 3.
A game like D2 don't work nowdays. Yes, D2 are played nowdays, but only by old fans. And is very clear that the target public in D3 are not the old fan base.
You say traps and invisibility makes no sense in Diablo. Tell me what is Wall of Zombies if not a linear Trap?
What is Slow Time if not a Slow Trap pluss a slow massile effect ?
And what stealth would do: You become invisible and enemies run around looking for you.
What WD"s Horrify do: You cast fear upon your enemy and they run away.
Whats the difference ? Why should it have 5min cooldown as horrify dont'? Why could I not use my stealth to reach a strategic target (like a enemy that use revive/heal or a ranged glass canon) ?
You guys take to serious what the devs said about the game will be even more fast passed then D2. Theres many many different ways to do it and not make the game totally retard with walking boxes instead of enemies.
We will surely have a bow class, but I hope it is not simple like the zon.
i never said traps are bad. i said trapping a monster in a hole is stupid.
to go invisible in a diablo game is just too imbalanced if there is not a longer cooldown than other skills. ie: go invisible, kill monster, go invisible, kill monster, go invisible kill monster.
i never said traps are bad. i said trapping a monster in a hole is stupid.
to go invisible in a diablo game is just too imbalanced if there is not a longer cooldown than other skills. ie: go invisible, kill monster, go invisible, kill monster, go invisible kill monster.
Why put a enemy in a hole is stupid ?
In one side it would not be effective against crowds of small monsters, monster that climb and flying monster.
But it would be veyr effective against larger mobs, once you could trap then and kill it from distance.
And why invisibilty+kill is OP and horrify + kill and teleport + kill isn't ?
Because those things cost MANA and are limited, like ALL other diablo skills.
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"In time the hissing of her sanity
Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
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Ok. So all class should just throw a massive destruction skill that 1 hit everythng in it's path, this way the game will be fast enough for you ?
Answer me what is Wall of Zumbie if not a horizontall trap ?
What is Slow Time if not a spheric slow trap against melee enemies ?
You guys take this fast pace talk to serious and think that this game will be like Mario Kart, but your character are the car and the monster 're the coins ¬¬
Yes, D3 shall have a stealth class that rely on agility and tricks to survive/kill.
I don't think that at all. Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never said that every class should just 1 hit kill everything. I'm talking about stealth and other stuff related to sneaking around.
Wall of Zombies, Bone Wall, etc are all a kind of trap. You are right about that. What dub Lucifer is talking about is VERY different from that kind of skill. Please read his last post on page two. He's talking about sneaking around patrol units for Christ's sake.
Diablo: Tactical Espionage Action
I wish I had photo editing skills.
I think I'm gonna need some more time away from Diablo forums.
Trap objection solved, now comes the stealth one.
What defines a class in diablo are not only how you kill your enemies, but how you don't let then kill you.
Barbarian will do it by charging, stunning, leaping, having a big hp.
Wiz will do it by slowing time, freezing, teleporting around, killing from distance.
WD di it by confusing, causing fear and summoning.
All I ask is a class that escape from death by vanishing, blinding the enemy, setting traps, dashing or killing by distance with ranged weapons. I don't think this kind of stuff are slower then other classes defensive powers.
About that guys idea, i guess he have played MGS4 and forgot how diablo's work >_<'
I want a ranged class as much as any one, but I can't be as assertive as some of you are about how it should be made. If I did know how it should be made, I'd probably be at Blizzard HQ workin' on the damn thing. I'm only trying to point out how absurd some of the ideas (however cool they may be) are for this game. I just want to see class ideas kept to a realistic view. Based purely on what we've seen in the game and what we've heard from the developers. What you're talking about is totally realistic, by the way.
I think a cool idea for a ranged class is something similar to the Paragon in Guild Wars. A holy spear chucking badass. Uh...
I believe we've met in previous threads.
Don't forget the holy damage.
I hate that the AI knows you are there the minute you aggro them! I mean, if you have a skill (like in DnD the Rogue's don't tigger aggro if they are smart) then you shouldn't. You should be able to sneak attack and pull like a rogue is supposed to do.
Let me just say this:
Nexus TK had rogues who could go invisible and they wouldn't aggro because of this skill and it was TONS of fun. Nexus TK was a 2D downaloadable game I would play for 10 bucks a month. If they can do it, D3 can!
But I'm sure the class will be different and probably be a melee/ranged hybrid of some kind. Probably like the assassin/rogue hybrid already discussed.
It would be cool if the bow that dropped in the gameplay video was for a hireable mercenary. That maybe there is no bow class and blizzard is just doing what it does in being the masters at misperception. They did state that everything that dropped was hand picked. But there will almost definitely be a bow class I'd say.
Except there won't be a support class, cause it defeats the purpose of them all being DPS classes who can solo just fine by themselves.
How about a Hunter?
Tracking - monsters leave footprint trails visible to the Hunter. Skill upgrade makes the trails last longer. Might also put arrows at the edge of the screen and/or blips on the minimap. Monsters with walking/idle sounds could be heard from much farther away.
Trapping - can set up a covered pit (with spikes), a drop net, a pop-up net bag, a spring-loaded foot-noose, trip-wired fire bombs, trip-wired falling rocks. Might even use a hand-held net as a snare weapon.
Camoflage - can blend in with the scenery, making himself nearly undetectable. Advances include stealth walk and silent run, with smaller aggro rings.
Wilderness Survival - Extensive knowledge of outdoor plantlife, and how to get the most out of butchering game. Gets better food drops, herbs, ingredients, and bonuses on the health hearts. An upgrade could offer minor healing (first aid) skill.
Might be able to have or tame an animal pet.
Why would you want to TRACK monsters in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
Why would you want to TRAP a monster in a hole in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
Why would you want to be undetectable to monsters in a game where you kill 100s of monsters in minutes? what the hell is the point?
IM sorry but stealth in this game is stupid. Monsters in diablo are nothing but lemmings. why are you going to go invisiable and sneak up on them? whats the point? what a waste of time. this isnt WoW.
if there is some kind of invisible skill, it has to be something that has like a 5min cooldown and only lasts a second (to not get surrounded). any other purpose is really stupid.
Im hoping they bring a bow class back. they can do some awesome stuff if they do it right.
In order to deal ranged damage the bow wielder will want tools that slow down and impede the progress of enemies. Tools that keep the enemy at a distance, and enhance the ability to kill from far away.
Wading through the center of 100s of mobs is the job of a barbarian. A bow wielder kills from across the screen.
The actual killing of 100s of mobs is a design choice, implemented by balancing how many hit points monsters have vs how much damage players dish out. One-shot kills will probably be quite common in Diablo-3, and even multi-kill shots.
Dungeon Seige, Hellgate:Londong, and others like them had monsters with 50000+ hitpoints. Players fought by kicking them in the shins several dozen times, until they keeled over. Diablo-3 has shifted the power balance, giving players the strength to easily kill teaming hoards of monsters.
It is my guess that this is related to their advances in game engine technology, allowing them to have many monsters on screen at once. Which they probably did expressly for this purpose.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
If monster going to be ''lemmiling'', we kill 100 of then per minute and the only strategy involved in is walk foward and attack, the only thing that will be worthless is Diablo 3.
A game like D2 don't work nowdays. Yes, D2 are played nowdays, but only by old fans. And is very clear that the target public in D3 are not the old fan base.
You say traps and invisibility makes no sense in Diablo. Tell me what is Wall of Zombies if not a linear Trap?
What is Slow Time if not a Slow Trap pluss a slow massile effect ?
And what stealth would do: You become invisible and enemies run around looking for you.
What WD"s Horrify do: You cast fear upon your enemy and they run away.
Whats the difference ? Why should it have 5min cooldown as horrify dont'? Why could I not use my stealth to reach a strategic target (like a enemy that use revive/heal or a ranged glass canon) ?
You guys take to serious what the devs said about the game will be even more fast passed then D2. Theres many many different ways to do it and not make the game totally retard with walking boxes instead of enemies.
We will surely have a bow class, but I hope it is not simple like the zon.
i never said traps are bad. i said trapping a monster in a hole is stupid.
to go invisible in a diablo game is just too imbalanced if there is not a longer cooldown than other skills. ie: go invisible, kill monster, go invisible, kill monster, go invisible kill monster.
Why put a enemy in a hole is stupid ?
In one side it would not be effective against crowds of small monsters, monster that climb and flying monster.
But it would be veyr effective against larger mobs, once you could trap then and kill it from distance.
And why invisibilty+kill is OP and horrify + kill and teleport + kill isn't ?
Because those things cost MANA and are limited, like ALL other diablo skills.