Just finished reading the Diablo books and it seems that the light is no where to be seen. It always seems to just be mortals vs hell.. Light is totally taken out the the equation. In the book the black road it seems like the light is non existant and whenever it is mentioned it sounds just as bad as hell...
When i frist started Diablo i always thought it was Good vs Evil, and now it seems like its one evil vs another. I dont know i just find it a bit strange. Has anyone else noticed this?
I also dislike that balance thing where basically the books say that nothing can ever happen to sanctuary because if evil introduces something there will be something light introduces that counters it automatically. Meaning that no one should worry at all because it will get sorted out eventually...
Generally, heaven is forbidden from interferring with the mortal realm. Tyreal was one of the disciples that ignored heavens law and assisted man against evil. This is probably why it is not mentioned at all in the Diablo books.
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Those before me shall quiver in my wake as I unleash the fury within!
Actually, the demons and angels made atruce about 2,000 years before The Black Road takes place to not interfere with Sanctuary...
Demons break promises all the time, and Tyrael, 2,000 years before The Black Road, was assigned to be Sanctuary's guardian so that nothing would interfere with the peace treaty, etc.
Good is just as evil as Evil, btw.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
see thats what i dont like at all.. thats totally fucked up imo... so basically you arent fighting for anything... REALLY GAY
I always imagined myself being a holy warrior when playing diablo, to banish evil back to hell so that the good could come back to the world.. but i guess not
Too me that sounds more realistic... even good is evil... reminds me of humans
Even angels can fight dirty, although i havent read all the books; that idea appeases me
Edit- It also takes it further away from the "generic angel/demon heaven/hell" thing Equinox mentioned. Makes the story more complex and not so straightforward. Although the myths and legends depict Angels are saviours.. who knows what theyre like?
But I havent read all the books so I dont even know if they depict angels like this im just commenting on what LordRayken said " Good is just as evil as Evil, btw. "
Heavens= Good
sanctuary (men)= evil + good could be both
hell= Evil
there shouldnt be any fluctuation since that defeats the whole purpose.. there is no point to fight for anything but your own survival then. That sort of mentality belongs in Starcraft not Diablo.
Anyways my main point is that this was not really portrayed in the games themselves. Only the books strayed off and made the light as bad as hell
Just finished reading the Diablo books and it seems that the light is no where to be seen. It always seems to just be mortals vs hell.. Light is totally taken out the the equation. In the book the black road it seems like the light is non existant and whenever it is mentioned it sounds just as bad as hell...
As Thasador said, there is policy of non-interference from Heaven. Partially because some in Heaven are fairly curious about mortals and the potential of their existence. But also because they know that the Prime Evils are interested in it and the High Heavens do not wish for the mortal realm to become a full blown front for the Great Conflict. But in the form of the Sin War, renegade agents aided mortals to an extent anyway. There may be have been more than jus Tyrael who was reprimanded for this. But Tyrael exerted his influence more than any other High Heavens agent.
Quote from "Num3n" »
When i frist started Diablo i always thought it was Good vs Evil, and now it seems like its one evil vs another. I dont know i just find it a bit strange. Has anyone else noticed this?
It's not strange to me. I actually find it quite typical. It's not like all of the Burning Hells are completely aligned. Take for example when the Lesser Evils overthrew the Prime Evils. Each Evil or any other demon desires power for him or herself. Many demons are aligned with the Prime Evils cause it benefits them to do so as the Prime Evils are the most powerful of the seven Evils and the Three are the most united which also makes them powerful. But despite the power of the Prime Evils, opportunistic demons may always come along and attempt to usurp power whenever they can. This is what makes them petty and this is their weakness. The High Heavens have weaknesses too; but theirs are more like they are complacent and highly aloof.
Quote from "Num3n" »
I also dislike that balance thing where basically the books say that nothing can ever happen to sanctuary because if evil introduces something there will be something light introduces that counters it automatically. Meaning that no one should worry at all because it will get sorted out eventually...
It's just that Sanctuary has been lucky to remain balanced under the influences of either Heaven or Hell. While the Burning Hells wishes to turn Sanctuary into a permanent hellish outpost, Heaven's intentions toward it are not so honorable either. Diablo lore drops many hints that if it were up to certain powers in the High Heavens, Sanctuary would be destroyed. The Balance is a good analogy for describing what keeps Sanctuary intact. Where as if either side gained too much power and influence, then the scales would tip over to that side and there could be no stopping it.
To me, when the Worldstone was destroyed, this was the ultimate balancing act. It greatly diminished the powers that the High Heavens and Burning Hells had over Sanctuary and basically made it impossible for either side to directly interfere in the mortal's destiny again. Basically, it many ways it severed lots of various magics (especially demonic kinds) including any lingering Nephalem powers and made mortals less powerful, yet more in control of their destiny. This is my theory any way and the consequences of the Worldstone's destrcution are very debatable. But hopefully some of this that I've written have addressed some of your issues.
I always imagined myself being a holy warrior when playing diablo, to banish evil back to hell so that the good could come back to the world
Holy Warrior, If the world of Sanctuary is anything like the real world; Then all these 'Holy Warriors' are just religious fanatics. That shows in the world of Sanctuary aswell with the religon of Zakarum being corrupted so easily (Hand of Zakarum, Knights of Khanduras), creating so many fanatical paladins and zealots who cant see the line between good and evil. Maybe Angels start to miss the line between good and evil too?
Zakarum was started by the ArchAngel Yaerius, And Zakarum caused many fanatical deaths; Doesnt that make the Angel Yaeruis seem a little less 'holy'?... Throws his intentions into question
Anyone seen the movie Constantine? The Angel Gabriel is corrupt, but not actually a 'Fallen Angel' untill right at the end. I think thats badass.
@ Num3n It is Rathma's and Trag Oul's job to keep the balance in sanctuary.
And yes I agree that originally it was Good vs Evil but the Sin War trilogy has turned that on its head, I suspect to give the game writers more of an angle to work with.
But personally I enjoyed the classic Good v Evil dynamic.
gahhh... well its just me then i guess.. and i still dont like it lol
by the way thank you guys for answering my questions
I gotta admit, I'm disappointed that none of our arguments did anything to sway you. Does the whole plot seem a contrivance to you? Or is there something else about it specifically?
see thats what i dont like at all.. thats totally fucked up imo... so basically you arent fighting for anything... REALLY GAY
I always imagined myself being a holy warrior when playing diablo, to banish evil back to hell so that the good could come back to the world.. but i guess not
You shouldn't view it as Good against Evil, it's never been said in the game. Rather, you should view it as Order against Chaos. Neither is entirely good or evil, but on the other hand we need both to exist as humans. And that's what it's supposed to reprsent; as humans, we would suffer equally if either force gained dominance over us.
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Evil wants to take over and use the humans agaisnt Heaven, they want to throw all of Sanctuary into chaos and rule over everything...
And Heaven wants to control everything and have inhuman order and dominate everything and control everything because no matter what, they are all so arrogant they believe everything they say and do is right...
What makes good so good? Angels aren't merciful... They are slayers of anything against them. If Humans are neutral, that makes them against Heaven.
Trag'Oul is the thing in between Heaven and Hell, he has to keep Sanctuary balanced, because if theres too much evil, the hells DESTROY everything and enslave humans... If theres too much good, the heavens DOMINATE everything and control humans...
In the eyes of the humans, Angels are just as bad as Demons. Sure, Angels are good as opposed to Demons, but they still think their way is the best way in the entire multiverse and they believe they should be able to command and control everything on Sanctuary, whereas Demons just want to take over, destroy everything, and rule.
It's a double edged sword dude, Humans are out on their own. Tyrael is the closest it gets to being a "Good Angel" because he voted for Sanctuary to be kept instead of destroyed and he chose to watch over the humans as they grow and protect them.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
It's Trag'Oul... Blizzard names mispell things a lot in instruction manuals, etc. I'm just Trang'Oul in D2 was just a misspell.
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"When men are most sure and arrogant, they are commonly the most mistaken, and have then given views to passion, without that proper deliberation and suspense which can alone secure them from the grossest absurdities"
I actually think the books missspelled it because the armor in the game is spelt trang'oul.. but then in the books its always trag'oul
Either way that pisses me off about the whole there is no good just evil
I gotta admit, I'm disappointed that none of our arguments did anything to sway you. Does the whole plot seem a contrivance to you? Or is there something else about it specifically?
idk i suppose it goes against my conventional way of thinking... And again when playing the game i always felt like some holy warrior chosen by the heavens to bring balance to sanctuary and defeat evil so that the light could prevail and everyone would be happy lol... But now its like im some dude who just so happened along and defeated evil so the humans in sanctuary could continue about their ways.. idk just messes up my entire perspective of this game.. fuck
For me it makes the game seem more realistic, less of a fairy tale with stupid ideals about right and wrong. More human, more evil... yum
Quote from "AlecShade" »
On the other side, would you prefer to play the game with magic pony and angels and everything light and peaceful? I think not. I personal prefer neutral vs. evil anytime (or simply evil vs. evil).
Damn straight
Now go make an introduction thread if you havent already
When i frist started Diablo i always thought it was Good vs Evil, and now it seems like its one evil vs another. I dont know i just find it a bit strange. Has anyone else noticed this?
I also dislike that balance thing where basically the books say that nothing can ever happen to sanctuary because if evil introduces something there will be something light introduces that counters it automatically. Meaning that no one should worry at all because it will get sorted out eventually...
Demons break promises all the time, and Tyrael, 2,000 years before The Black Road, was assigned to be Sanctuary's guardian so that nothing would interfere with the peace treaty, etc.
Good is just as evil as Evil, btw.
see thats what i dont like at all.. thats totally fucked up imo... so basically you arent fighting for anything... REALLY GAY
I always imagined myself being a holy warrior when playing diablo, to banish evil back to hell so that the good could come back to the world.. but i guess not
Even angels can fight dirty, although i havent read all the books; that idea appeases me
Edit- It also takes it further away from the "generic angel/demon heaven/hell" thing Equinox mentioned. Makes the story more complex and not so straightforward. Although the myths and legends depict Angels are saviours.. who knows what theyre like?
But I havent read all the books so I dont even know if they depict angels like this im just commenting on what LordRayken said " Good is just as evil as Evil, btw. "
Heavens= Good
sanctuary (men)= evil + good could be both
hell= Evil
there shouldnt be any fluctuation since that defeats the whole purpose.. there is no point to fight for anything but your own survival then. That sort of mentality belongs in Starcraft not Diablo.
Anyways my main point is that this was not really portrayed in the games themselves. Only the books strayed off and made the light as bad as hell
It's not strange to me. I actually find it quite typical. It's not like all of the Burning Hells are completely aligned. Take for example when the Lesser Evils overthrew the Prime Evils. Each Evil or any other demon desires power for him or herself. Many demons are aligned with the Prime Evils cause it benefits them to do so as the Prime Evils are the most powerful of the seven Evils and the Three are the most united which also makes them powerful. But despite the power of the Prime Evils, opportunistic demons may always come along and attempt to usurp power whenever they can. This is what makes them petty and this is their weakness. The High Heavens have weaknesses too; but theirs are more like they are complacent and highly aloof.
It's just that Sanctuary has been lucky to remain balanced under the influences of either Heaven or Hell. While the Burning Hells wishes to turn Sanctuary into a permanent hellish outpost, Heaven's intentions toward it are not so honorable either. Diablo lore drops many hints that if it were up to certain powers in the High Heavens, Sanctuary would be destroyed. The Balance is a good analogy for describing what keeps Sanctuary intact. Where as if either side gained too much power and influence, then the scales would tip over to that side and there could be no stopping it.
To me, when the Worldstone was destroyed, this was the ultimate balancing act. It greatly diminished the powers that the High Heavens and Burning Hells had over Sanctuary and basically made it impossible for either side to directly interfere in the mortal's destiny again. Basically, it many ways it severed lots of various magics (especially demonic kinds) including any lingering Nephalem powers and made mortals less powerful, yet more in control of their destiny. This is my theory any way and the consequences of the Worldstone's destrcution are very debatable. But hopefully some of this that I've written have addressed some of your issues.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Holy Warrior, If the world of Sanctuary is anything like the real world; Then all these 'Holy Warriors' are just religious fanatics. That shows in the world of Sanctuary aswell with the religon of Zakarum being corrupted so easily (Hand of Zakarum, Knights of Khanduras), creating so many fanatical paladins and zealots who cant see the line between good and evil. Maybe Angels start to miss the line between good and evil too?
Zakarum was started by the ArchAngel Yaerius, And Zakarum caused many fanatical deaths; Doesnt that make the Angel Yaeruis seem a little less 'holy'?... Throws his intentions into question
Anyone seen the movie Constantine? The Angel Gabriel is corrupt, but not actually a 'Fallen Angel' untill right at the end. I think thats badass.
by the way thank you guys for answering my questions
It is Rathma's and Trag Oul's job to keep the balance in sanctuary.
And yes I agree that originally it was Good vs Evil but the Sin War trilogy has turned that on its head, I suspect to give the game writers more of an angle to work with.
But personally I enjoyed the classic Good v Evil dynamic.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Good is horrible.
Evil is horrible.
Dude, look at the two factions!
Evil wants to take over and use the humans agaisnt Heaven, they want to throw all of Sanctuary into chaos and rule over everything...
And Heaven wants to control everything and have inhuman order and dominate everything and control everything because no matter what, they are all so arrogant they believe everything they say and do is right...
What makes good so good? Angels aren't merciful... They are slayers of anything against them. If Humans are neutral, that makes them against Heaven.
Trag'Oul is the thing in between Heaven and Hell, he has to keep Sanctuary balanced, because if theres too much evil, the hells DESTROY everything and enslave humans... If theres too much good, the heavens DOMINATE everything and control humans...
In the eyes of the humans, Angels are just as bad as Demons. Sure, Angels are good as opposed to Demons, but they still think their way is the best way in the entire multiverse and they believe they should be able to command and control everything on Sanctuary, whereas Demons just want to take over, destroy everything, and rule.
It's a double edged sword dude, Humans are out on their own. Tyrael is the closest it gets to being a "Good Angel" because he voted for Sanctuary to be kept instead of destroyed and he chose to watch over the humans as they grow and protect them.
Ok, i always thought it was Trang Oul, but then in the Legacy of Blood its spelt Trag'Oul
http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Trang-Oul
:confused:
Either way that pisses me off about the whole there is no good just evil
idk i suppose it goes against my conventional way of thinking... And again when playing the game i always felt like some holy warrior chosen by the heavens to bring balance to sanctuary and defeat evil so that the light could prevail and everyone would be happy lol... But now its like im some dude who just so happened along and defeated evil so the humans in sanctuary could continue about their ways.. idk just messes up my entire perspective of this game.. fuck
lol
Damn straight
Now go make an introduction thread if you havent already
Not EVERYTHING is evil... I mean, Why are you living right now?