Orbs are out, potions are in, Not spammable but there, and I'm sure pit of fire doesn't cost that much by the time you actually get it, plus with traits and runes you can get it to cost as much as a tier 1 skill probably.
Using those same traits/runes to lower the cost of a higher tier skill you could also reduce the cost of a tier 1 skill. This would make that tier 1 skill even more viable at higher levels, through increased spammability. So your choice would be something like reducing a tier 4 skill to tier 1 in terms of cost, or reducing tier 1 to cost basically nothing so you can constantly spam it.
Orbs are out, potions are in, Not spammable but there, and I'm sure pit of fire doesn't cost that much by the time you actually get it, plus with traits and runes you can get it to cost as much as a tier 1 skill probably.
Timeout! When did they announce potions are back in the game?
Hah, where have you been? The potions are supposed to be harder to find and on a long cooldown so you won't be able to spam them.
Imo high resource costs + not so overpowered effects + 10~15 seconds cooldown would be much, much better imo.
The high resource costs would not dry out your character enterely. Most of D3 resources systens are based on fast consuption / fast regeneration (the only possible exception is the WD). It would only bring you down for a few moments.
Well with the WD we already have two choices that will have us go back at least once Plague or Dogs. This isn't including how the runes can alter these, just think of how we've seen Plague of Frogs change. Now I agree that cookie cutting builds suck, but I don't think the tiered choices make or break that fear. If you can just choose whatever by waiting that doesn't mean there won't be an optimal build. It just means you have to play in basic melee combat longer till you get the skill you want, that is something blizzard has stated they wanted to avoid.
Another point worth bring up is that Blizzard has some design around every class with these abilities. You are either a Dog or Frog, a Bola Shot, Grenades, a Magic Missle, or Spectral blades, and more of course. These are your foundation skills. You pick Toads and that will affect your choice of the next tier. I seem to remember it once being said that tiers are more about the choice of an ability more than the grade of power of it.
WD is my last choice of a class but looking at what is the suppose tiers I will try and show you what I mean.
If I go Dogs I think I would go Charger, then Sacrifice, then Fire Bats, then Fire Bomb, Gargantuan, and Fetish Army
If I go Frogs I woud go spiders, then Grasp of the Dead (something about holding a mob while creepy crawlies kill him sounds fun,) locust swarm, then Horrify, and Mass Confusion, and then Spirit Barrage.
That is just two builds not even accounting for Runes. One is an army of what I imagine to be heavy hitters, the other a massive DoT army that rips apart massive army of confused and scared demons. It is limited but hardly cookie cutter.
but by definition cookie cutter is having to choose this straight path and only this straight path. So even though they are limited they are still cookie cutter because in, order for it to be effective you can't go any other way besides the way you've posted. thats what i want to avoid. I want to say hey i want locust swarm pit of fire corpse spider and mass confusion, and keep it optimal, but it wont be because I'm stacking all these mob abilities then I'm dispersing the mob. So what i want is this exact build to be viable and equal even though it goes against normal playstyles.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
I still don't get why that build would not be viable. Blizzard has talked a lot about how they are trying to make a lot of different viable builds, and because none of us have played the full game I'm not sure what these opinions are based on.
Pikke, I think you and I are on the same page, were just reading it differently
As for the root of the current argument as I see it, Why does everyone assume the higher tier skills 'must' be more powerful? I am sure I'm not the only one here That has Played FF10 so I will use an example from that game. Despite its funny appearance, It is basically a tier system, especially early game where you're progression is predetermined. Tidus has 3 abilities called cheer (his first ability), provoke, and protect. Cheer boosts all allies atk and def, provoke makes foes target him, and protect defends one ally. Despite protect and provoke being higher tier (and much higher than Cheer) They all have comparable power, but the situations you use them in are different. in this example the higher level skills are not actually more powerful, and yet there is still a feeling of progression in skills gained because as you progress through the game as different situations come up you have the exact skill or spell to be able to handle it, and don't need to rely on powers that work, but are not perfect for the situation.
If diablo has an approach at all like this (where higher tiers are not necessarily better spells but can be in some situations) then I think people will be happy.
In regards to the chess analogy, This game is not like chess, A better analogy would be playing in go, but after you're first move all subsequent stones must be within 4 spaces of a previous stone. This would give the player a sense of progression, but it would also be incredibly restricting and hinder peoples game-play. Now consider that you were once told that anywhere on the board is a viable play. I don't know about you, I would feel cheated.
Last response, While I wont be able to play all 2200 combinations per class personally, while playing on the NA servers, I will likely play with many other people and among the ~1.2 million people who will play in that region (I think that is a conservative estimate) the 240000 players who will also be playing the Doc (based on his popularity in this poll. there could easily be 100s of people who have my same exact build. especially since the Doc is most restricted in his skill selection based on Sacrifices dependance on other skills. With the absurd number of builds advertised, its possible that I will find a unique build. That is one problem with reducing diversity of build options.
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If that made sense to you, Bravo! I think I even confused myself...
Right as I was going to post this like 24 hours ago, my internet crashed, its just back now, and I'm just posting what I was going to post:
Cooldowns is just one of many things for Blizzard to focus and centralize their design and prevent the players from creating or thinking anything.
Blizzard has shown me with SC2 as well that they don't care about you having the ability to play around with more things than planned for unexpected results. They don't want to give you that freedom. They don't care. You're going to play the calculated Diablo 3, because every inch of it, like SC2, is so carefully put and glued together it makes me sick.
But since D3 has a lot of freedom in its base design in the first place, I can forgive them that here.
But if you want me to just put my opinion on the cooldown and thats it: I think that no cooldown whatsoever should ever go above 30 sec, and -all- skills should be somehow upgradeable (with more skill points or whatever) to have a 10 sec cooldown or less.
Cooldown in minutes is bullshit. We only have 7 skills for god sakes.
Orbs are out, potions are in, Not spammable but there, and I'm sure pit of fire doesn't cost that much by the time you actually get it, plus with traits and runes you can get it to cost as much as a tier 1 skill probably.
Using those same traits/runes to lower the cost of a higher tier skill you could also reduce the cost of a tier 1 skill. This would make that tier 1 skill even more viable at higher levels, through increased spammability. So your choice would be something like reducing a tier 4 skill to tier 1 in terms of cost, or reducing tier 1 to cost basically nothing so you can constantly spam it.
Sup people, been following dfans pretty much since 08 but was always too lazy to make an account...anyways I finally decided to make an account so here i am
Back to the post, I agree with what you guys said, but another option you could take would be rather than choose traits/perks that reduce the cost of your skills, choose traits that boost damage. Which would leave u with the option to either, a) lower the cost of firebats similar to that of a tier 1 skill, or increase the damage output of that tier 1 skill to be greater than or equal to the firebat skill. In both cases you would have a fairly strong spell with roughly the same amount of mana cost, the only difference being which spell you like the most.
Of course this is all just speculation as we have no idea yet how the game will turnout, but im sure you guys get my point...hopefully
I'm not going to bother with a rebuttal against those naive, and ignorant who still think level 1 skills still cant be viable later on vs higher tier skills, if your brain cant grasp this concept, it can't grasp it, no one can help you, probably the same kind of people who made Diablo 2 but luckily we have people working on Diablo 3 who can think out side of the box, who can grasp the concept of true balance.
On the cooldowns, there should be 2 skills per class tops that require a whopping 2 minute cooldown, then maybe a few awesome ones that require 30 seconds, then a few more that require 5-15 seconds, like he said we are only going to have 7 skills, we shouldn't have to wait around for each one even if they do nuke the entire screen,
but again we don't know all of the ways we will have of reducing these cool downs, you might be able to reduce a 2 minute cooldown to 30 maybe even 20 seconds for all we know.
and no, we'll have a total of 20 skills but only 7 will be usable at one time.
Um, can you explain this? I admit I only played D2 briefly and when I was younger, but I thought you can only pick 7 skills out of the 21 permanently and if you wanted to switch you would need to reroll or respec, you can switch which skills you want during the game whenever? sorry, someone please explain how the choosing skills work out.
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I agree with feminism. I don't think that it's right that for every dollar a man makes, a women gets 70 cents. Why do I only get 30 cents and some chick gets the rest?
I hope we all take a long look at what's gone on the past few days. This. THIS is why blizzard never gives us info. This is why we go months with no updates. We get a Tiny bit of info like "some Barbarian skills have cool downs" and people start acting like fools. We know NOTHING to justify these outlandish sweeping comments of dislike. This really makes me sick. Never mind that the 3 skills I'm question. Make PERFECT sense to have CDs. CotA will likely past one min and with runea and traits will Polly be up at all times. Just chill.. sriously.
As for the root of the current argument as I see it, Why does everyone assume the higher tier skills 'must' be more powerful?
That's easy, plenty of people grown up reading/watching fantasy novels/books/manga/anime/movies in which the hero learns ever more powerful skills and then blows away the opponent with a nice superpowerful attack. It's a typical cliché. It's also one of evolution's tenet, the strongest wins.
Usually people read "strongest" as "most powerful" while in evolution "strongest" is a more complex concept implying intelligence, strenght, speed, resilience, adaptability and so on.
We may say evolution would be the perfect Diablo player, lot of fantasy and plenty of time to play.
Unfortunately I have not played FF10 but I think I got your point.
Me too would like (and hope it will be so) for Diablo to have a similar approach, just I think a more powerful (in terms of sheer damage or utility or crowd control or whatelse) skill with a CD (hey, back on topic eventually ) is not such a bad idea. That's the point I don't agree with Equinox, as well as the fact that I have no problem with there being some builds which are better than others, since there will always be something like that and honestly I will not feel compelled to pick one of those builds.
My approach has always been to try to figure out a build then try it out in the game, it's not just about winning, it's about having fun. To me it's funny to figure uncommon, not so viable builds and try them out to see if I can make them work.
In regards to the chess analogy, This game is not like chess, A better analogy would be playing in go, but after you're first move all subsequent stones must be within 4 spaces of a previous stone. This would give the player a sense of progression, but it would also be incredibly restricting and hinder peoples game-play. Now consider that you were once told that anywhere on the board is a viable play. I don't know about you, I would feel cheated.
Err...I dunno a thing about chess or go so I find it difficult to understand the analogy (sorry ) but I guess ( ) you are referring to tiers and "one skill per tier" here ( I really missed the one skill per tier announcement, have to check on this). Well, one skill per tier will be THE limiting factor and, yes, I'd feel cheated too. But being cynical I've never taken for good the 96billions stuff, So not much disappointment here.
Last response, While I wont be able to play all 2200 combinations per class personally, while playing on the NA servers, I will likely play with many other people and among the ~1.2 million people who will play in that region (I think that is a conservative estimate) the 240000 players who will also be playing the Doc (based on his popularity in this poll. there could easily be 100s of people who have my same exact build. especially since the Doc is most restricted in his skill selection based on Sacrifices dependance on other skills. With the absurd number of builds advertised, its possible that I will find a unique build. That is one problem with reducing diversity of build options.
ok, I guess you'd like to find out your personal unique build and that this is part of the fun for you. So reducing the amount of possible viable builds would reduce your share of fun. I can see how this could be disappointing for you and hope it would not be so.
I used to be more on SP than MP so my perspective is a bit different since having other people with the same identical build is not an issue.
When Blizzard will let us (eventually!!!!!) grab the game I'll go for WD as first, but I'll make sure to send a you message so we would not end up with the same build!
Well with the WD we already have two choices that will have us go back at least once Plague or Dogs. This isn't including how the runes can alter these, just think of how we've seen Plague of Frogs change. Now I agree that cookie cutting builds suck, but I don't think the tiered choices make or break that fear. If you can just choose whatever by waiting that doesn't mean there won't be an optimal build. It just means you have to play in basic melee combat longer till you get the skill you want, that is something blizzard has stated they wanted to avoid.
Another point worth bring up is that Blizzard has some design around every class with these abilities. You are either a Dog or Frog, a Bola Shot, Grenades, a Magic Missle, or Spectral blades, and more of course. These are your foundation skills. You pick Toads and that will affect your choice of the next tier. I seem to remember it once being said that tiers are more about the choice of an ability more than the grade of power of it.
WD is my last choice of a class but looking at what is the suppose tiers I will try and show you what I mean.
If I go Dogs I think I would go Charger, then Sacrifice, then Fire Bats, then Fire Bomb, Gargantuan, and Fetish Army
If I go Frogs I woud go spiders, then Grasp of the Dead (something about holding a mob while creepy crawlies kill him sounds fun,) locust swarm, then Horrify, and Mass Confusion, and then Spirit Barrage.
That is just two builds not even accounting for Runes. One is an army of what I imagine to be heavy hitters, the other a massive DoT army that rips apart massive army of confused and scared demons. It is limited but hardly cookie cutter.
but by definition cookie cutter is having to choose this straight path and only this straight path. So even though they are limited they are still cookie cutter because in, order for it to be effective you can't go any other way besides the way you've posted. thats what i want to avoid. I want to say hey i want locust swarm pit of fire corpse spider and mass confusion, and keep it optimal, but it wont be because I'm stacking all these mob abilities then I'm dispersing the mob. So what i want is this exact build to be viable and equal even though it goes against normal playstyles.
So you want the game to be played randomly ?
Random builds will fail, like inb any other game. This is the fun of creating a build: trying to seek something viable in a certain contest.
and no, we'll have a total of 20 skills but only 7 will be usable at one time.
Um, can you explain this? I admit I only played D2 briefly and when I was younger, but I thought you can only pick 7 skills out of the 21 permanently and if you wanted to switch you would need to reroll or respec, you can switch which skills you want during the game whenever? sorry, someone please explain how the choosing skills work out.
You will have a total of 20 or 21 (IDK) skills available to you after spending points but because the UI will only have 7 boxes for skills you will still have access to your other 20/21 skills but you can only use 7 of them actively at a time.
So you want the game to be played randomly ?
Random builds will fail, like inb any other game. This is the fun of creating a build: trying to seek something viable in a certain contest.
Sounds like you have been playing too much diablo 2 where your forced down a linear path of choosing one of 4 viable builds for your character.
Well with the WD we already have two choices that will have us go back at least once Plague or Dogs. This isn't including how the runes can alter these, just think of how we've seen Plague of Frogs change. Now I agree that cookie cutting builds suck, but I don't think the tiered choices make or break that fear. If you can just choose whatever by waiting that doesn't mean there won't be an optimal build. It just means you have to play in basic melee combat longer till you get the skill you want, that is something blizzard has stated they wanted to avoid.
Another point worth bring up is that Blizzard has some design around every class with these abilities. You are either a Dog or Frog, a Bola Shot, Grenades, a Magic Missle, or Spectral blades, and more of course. These are your foundation skills. You pick Toads and that will affect your choice of the next tier. I seem to remember it once being said that tiers are more about the choice of an ability more than the grade of power of it.
WD is my last choice of a class but looking at what is the suppose tiers I will try and show you what I mean.
If I go Dogs I think I would go Charger, then Sacrifice, then Fire Bats, then Fire Bomb, Gargantuan, and Fetish Army
If I go Frogs I woud go spiders, then Grasp of the Dead (something about holding a mob while creepy crawlies kill him sounds fun,) locust swarm, then Horrify, and Mass Confusion, and then Spirit Barrage.
That is just two builds not even accounting for Runes. One is an army of what I imagine to be heavy hitters, the other a massive DoT army that rips apart massive army of confused and scared demons. It is limited but hardly cookie cutter.
but by definition cookie cutter is having to choose this straight path and only this straight path. So even though they are limited they are still cookie cutter because in, order for it to be effective you can't go any other way besides the way you've posted. thats what i want to avoid. I want to say hey i want locust swarm pit of fire corpse spider and mass confusion, and keep it optimal, but it wont be because I'm stacking all these mob abilities then I'm dispersing the mob. So what i want is this exact build to be viable and equal even though it goes against normal playstyles.
So you want the game to be played randomly ?
Random builds will fail, like inb any other game. This is the fun of creating a build: trying to seek something viable in a certain contest.
Exactly I want to say i can choose any skill and have it be viable thats ten times more fun than going to a website and seeing "BEST SKILL BUILD FOR WIZARDS - +1Electorcute... etc" Thats fucking Bullshit and I hate having to build a certain way in order to play the game it was meant to be played. When this happens it makes it so that anyone without this build will fail so much easier and have a much more difficult time than those who follow this build.
and no, we'll have a total of 20 skills but only 7 will be usable at one time.
Um, can you explain this? I admit I only played D2 briefly and when I was younger, but I thought you can only pick 7 skills out of the 21 permanently and if you wanted to switch you would need to reroll or respec, you can switch which skills you want during the game whenever? sorry, someone please explain how the choosing skills work out.
You will have a total of 20 or 21 (IDK) skills available to you after spending points but because the UI will only have 7 boxes for skills you will still have access to your other 20/21 skills but you can only use 7 of them actively at a time.
No I'm pretty sure that you can literally only choose 7 spells. You have a choice between 21 but you can only actually get 7
And To everyone saying Blizzard will balance it, They know what they're doing. I hope you are right. I can see traits stopping cooldown adding damage to make them equal and everything but from the looks of traits right now, from what we know it looks like they are general spell traits. Such as the WitchDoctors Tier 2 Meditation: Spirit Spells return X% of their mana cost over 10 sec. This now applies to ALL spirit spells so instead of just making one more even to a higher one it also makes the higher one cost less effectively making it equal to the tier 1 spell while also reducing the tier 1 spell. Therefore it keeps that ratio and is unbalance. Obviously this is just one example and I'm sure there are some that work against my argument but there are still some that work for my argument. In order for them to balance it, traits have to be for specific spells. Also, I might add this is all on speculation right now so now need to get frustrated or anything we don't even know if these are still traits in the game, they could've put in spell specific traits I am not sure, Aug 2nd will be the tell all date for everything we need to know about his game.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
So you want the game to be played randomly ?
Random builds will fail, like inb any other game. This is the fun of creating a build: trying to seek something viable in a certain contest.
Sounds like you have been playing too much diablo 2 where your forced down a linear path of choosing one of 4 viable builds for your character.
Edit: and wtf is a ''random '' build?
Sounds like you never played too much diablo 2.
Theres around 80 viable PvE builds in D2 (build = strategy set. Chanign one or other skill is not a new build, so i'm not playing with numbers here). And by viable i mean you can play and beat hell with it.
And random builds is: Choose seven skills at random. Choose your traits randomly too. This is a random build.
Asking for too easy character developemtn (i mean, any combination you choose will work) is asking for the game' ruin. For many, many ppl the fun of the game lies in character creation and planning. If everything you do works, theres no reason to plan and think. A game you can't loose isn't a game.
And no, i don't like cookie cutter only. If you're smart enough you can easilly build something not cookie cutter that works. I've 2 necros, a zon, a barb, 2 sorcs and a druid that are totally uncoventional and play on hell easilly. They are not the best build, but they are good enough.
So you want the game to be played randomly ?
Random builds will fail, like inb any other game. This is the fun of creating a build: trying to seek something viable in a certain contest.
Sounds like you have been playing too much diablo 2 where your forced down a linear path of choosing one of 4 viable builds for your character.
Edit: and wtf is a ''random '' build?
Sounds like you never played too much diablo 2.
Theres around 80 viable PvE builds in D2 (build = strategy set. Chanign one or other skill is not a new build, so i'm not playing with numbers here). And by viable i mean you can play and beat hell with it.
And random builds is: Choose seven skills at random. Choose your traits randomly too. This is a random build.
Asking for too easy character developemtn (i mean, any combination you choose will work) is asking for the game' ruin. For many, many ppl the fun of the game lies in character creation and planning. If everything you do works, theres no reason to plan and think. A game you can't loose isn't a game.
And no, i don't like cookie cutter only. If you're smart enough you can easilly build something not cookie cutter that works. I've 2 necros, a zon, a barb, 2 sorcs and a druid that are totally uncoventional and play on hell easilly. They are not the best build, but they are good enough.
I never said i wanted it to be an unloosable game, I just want them all to be able to beat it eventually without any m,ore difficulty than the next. It should be this way because it allows more diversity than just 80 builds...
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
Using those same traits/runes to lower the cost of a higher tier skill you could also reduce the cost of a tier 1 skill. This would make that tier 1 skill even more viable at higher levels, through increased spammability. So your choice would be something like reducing a tier 4 skill to tier 1 in terms of cost, or reducing tier 1 to cost basically nothing so you can constantly spam it.
The high resource costs would not dry out your character enterely. Most of D3 resources systens are based on fast consuption / fast regeneration (the only possible exception is the WD). It would only bring you down for a few moments.
but by definition cookie cutter is having to choose this straight path and only this straight path. So even though they are limited they are still cookie cutter because in, order for it to be effective you can't go any other way besides the way you've posted. thats what i want to avoid. I want to say hey i want locust swarm pit of fire corpse spider and mass confusion, and keep it optimal, but it wont be because I'm stacking all these mob abilities then I'm dispersing the mob. So what i want is this exact build to be viable and equal even though it goes against normal playstyles.
As for the root of the current argument as I see it, Why does everyone assume the higher tier skills 'must' be more powerful? I am sure I'm not the only one here That has Played FF10 so I will use an example from that game. Despite its funny appearance, It is basically a tier system, especially early game where you're progression is predetermined. Tidus has 3 abilities called cheer (his first ability), provoke, and protect. Cheer boosts all allies atk and def, provoke makes foes target him, and protect defends one ally. Despite protect and provoke being higher tier (and much higher than Cheer) They all have comparable power, but the situations you use them in are different. in this example the higher level skills are not actually more powerful, and yet there is still a feeling of progression in skills gained because as you progress through the game as different situations come up you have the exact skill or spell to be able to handle it, and don't need to rely on powers that work, but are not perfect for the situation.
If diablo has an approach at all like this (where higher tiers are not necessarily better spells but can be in some situations) then I think people will be happy.
In regards to the chess analogy, This game is not like chess, A better analogy would be playing in go, but after you're first move all subsequent stones must be within 4 spaces of a previous stone. This would give the player a sense of progression, but it would also be incredibly restricting and hinder peoples game-play. Now consider that you were once told that anywhere on the board is a viable play. I don't know about you, I would feel cheated.
Last response, While I wont be able to play all 2200 combinations per class personally, while playing on the NA servers, I will likely play with many other people and among the ~1.2 million people who will play in that region (I think that is a conservative estimate) the 240000 players who will also be playing the Doc (based on his popularity in this poll. there could easily be 100s of people who have my same exact build. especially since the Doc is most restricted in his skill selection based on Sacrifices dependance on other skills. With the absurd number of builds advertised, its possible that I will find a unique build. That is one problem with reducing diversity of build options.
Cooldowns is just one of many things for Blizzard to focus and centralize their design and prevent the players from creating or thinking anything.
Blizzard has shown me with SC2 as well that they don't care about you having the ability to play around with more things than planned for unexpected results. They don't want to give you that freedom. They don't care. You're going to play the calculated Diablo 3, because every inch of it, like SC2, is so carefully put and glued together it makes me sick.
But since D3 has a lot of freedom in its base design in the first place, I can forgive them that here.
But if you want me to just put my opinion on the cooldown and thats it: I think that no cooldown whatsoever should ever go above 30 sec, and -all- skills should be somehow upgradeable (with more skill points or whatever) to have a 10 sec cooldown or less.
Cooldown in minutes is bullshit. We only have 7 skills for god sakes.
Sup people, been following dfans pretty much since 08 but was always too lazy to make an account...anyways I finally decided to make an account so here i am
Back to the post, I agree with what you guys said, but another option you could take would be rather than choose traits/perks that reduce the cost of your skills, choose traits that boost damage. Which would leave u with the option to either, a) lower the cost of firebats similar to that of a tier 1 skill, or increase the damage output of that tier 1 skill to be greater than or equal to the firebat skill. In both cases you would have a fairly strong spell with roughly the same amount of mana cost, the only difference being which spell you like the most.
Of course this is all just speculation as we have no idea yet how the game will turnout, but im sure you guys get my point...hopefully
On the cooldowns, there should be 2 skills per class tops that require a whopping 2 minute cooldown, then maybe a few awesome ones that require 30 seconds, then a few more that require 5-15 seconds, like he said we are only going to have 7 skills, we shouldn't have to wait around for each one even if they do nuke the entire screen,
but again we don't know all of the ways we will have of reducing these cool downs, you might be able to reduce a 2 minute cooldown to 30 maybe even 20 seconds for all we know.
Um, can you explain this? I admit I only played D2 briefly and when I was younger, but I thought you can only pick 7 skills out of the 21 permanently and if you wanted to switch you would need to reroll or respec, you can switch which skills you want during the game whenever? sorry, someone please explain how the choosing skills work out.
Yes, all in life is about different perspectives
That's easy, plenty of people grown up reading/watching fantasy novels/books/manga/anime/movies in which the hero learns ever more powerful skills and then blows away the opponent with a nice superpowerful attack. It's a typical cliché. It's also one of evolution's tenet, the strongest wins.
Usually people read "strongest" as "most powerful" while in evolution "strongest" is a more complex concept implying intelligence, strenght, speed, resilience, adaptability and so on.
We may say evolution would be the perfect Diablo player, lot of fantasy and plenty of time to play.
Unfortunately I have not played FF10 but I think I got your point.
Me too would like (and hope it will be so) for Diablo to have a similar approach, just I think a more powerful (in terms of sheer damage or utility or crowd control or whatelse) skill with a CD (hey, back on topic eventually ) is not such a bad idea. That's the point I don't agree with Equinox, as well as the fact that I have no problem with there being some builds which are better than others, since there will always be something like that and honestly I will not feel compelled to pick one of those builds.
My approach has always been to try to figure out a build then try it out in the game, it's not just about winning, it's about having fun. To me it's funny to figure uncommon, not so viable builds and try them out to see if I can make them work.
Err...I dunno a thing about chess or go so I find it difficult to understand the analogy (sorry ) but I guess ( ) you are referring to tiers and "one skill per tier" here ( I really missed the one skill per tier announcement, have to check on this). Well, one skill per tier will be THE limiting factor and, yes, I'd feel cheated too. But being cynical I've never taken for good the 96billions stuff, So not much disappointment here.
ok, I guess you'd like to find out your personal unique build and that this is part of the fun for you. So reducing the amount of possible viable builds would reduce your share of fun. I can see how this could be disappointing for you and hope it would not be so.
I used to be more on SP than MP so my perspective is a bit different since having other people with the same identical build is not an issue.
When Blizzard will let us (eventually!!!!!) grab the game I'll go for WD as first, but I'll make sure to send a you message so we would not end up with the same build!
So you want the game to be played randomly ?
Random builds will fail, like inb any other game. This is the fun of creating a build: trying to seek something viable in a certain contest.
You will have a total of 20 or 21 (IDK) skills available to you after spending points but because the UI will only have 7 boxes for skills you will still have access to your other 20/21 skills but you can only use 7 of them actively at a time.
Monk > Wizard > Barbarian > Demon Hunter > Witch Doctor
Sounds like you have been playing too much diablo 2 where your forced down a linear path of choosing one of 4 viable builds for your character.
Edit: and wtf is a ''random '' build?
Exactly I want to say i can choose any skill and have it be viable thats ten times more fun than going to a website and seeing "BEST SKILL BUILD FOR WIZARDS - +1Electorcute... etc" Thats fucking Bullshit and I hate having to build a certain way in order to play the game it was meant to be played. When this happens it makes it so that anyone without this build will fail so much easier and have a much more difficult time than those who follow this build.
No I'm pretty sure that you can literally only choose 7 spells. You have a choice between 21 but you can only actually get 7
And To everyone saying Blizzard will balance it, They know what they're doing. I hope you are right. I can see traits stopping cooldown adding damage to make them equal and everything but from the looks of traits right now, from what we know it looks like they are general spell traits. Such as the WitchDoctors Tier 2 Meditation: Spirit Spells return X% of their mana cost over 10 sec. This now applies to ALL spirit spells so instead of just making one more even to a higher one it also makes the higher one cost less effectively making it equal to the tier 1 spell while also reducing the tier 1 spell. Therefore it keeps that ratio and is unbalance. Obviously this is just one example and I'm sure there are some that work against my argument but there are still some that work for my argument. In order for them to balance it, traits have to be for specific spells. Also, I might add this is all on speculation right now so now need to get frustrated or anything we don't even know if these are still traits in the game, they could've put in spell specific traits I am not sure, Aug 2nd will be the tell all date for everything we need to know about his game.
Sounds like you never played too much diablo 2.
Theres around 80 viable PvE builds in D2 (build = strategy set. Chanign one or other skill is not a new build, so i'm not playing with numbers here). And by viable i mean you can play and beat hell with it.
And random builds is: Choose seven skills at random. Choose your traits randomly too. This is a random build.
Asking for too easy character developemtn (i mean, any combination you choose will work) is asking for the game' ruin. For many, many ppl the fun of the game lies in character creation and planning. If everything you do works, theres no reason to plan and think. A game you can't loose isn't a game.
And no, i don't like cookie cutter only. If you're smart enough you can easilly build something not cookie cutter that works. I've 2 necros, a zon, a barb, 2 sorcs and a druid that are totally uncoventional and play on hell easilly. They are not the best build, but they are good enough.
I never said i wanted it to be an unloosable game, I just want them all to be able to beat it eventually without any m,ore difficulty than the next. It should be this way because it allows more diversity than just 80 builds...
You can swap spells in and out of your hotkeys.
Total of 5 on the UI and 2 on the Mouse (Left & Right click).
Monk > Wizard > Barbarian > Demon Hunter > Witch Doctor