do you guys wanna hear from the #1 WD in the world in HC? ok, so here's my 2c:
WD is so OP as it is. really depends on how you play it. i can tank, i can dish out solid amount of damage, and i can cc quite well. some skills are underused, i agree. but even if they buff them, WDs are still going to be a skill-based character. better players are just going to be better than most, even than most classes. so most people think WD are bad only because they are bad at playing it. so for me, no changes is ideal.
Why should we care about #1 HC DPS that's too afraid to leave a1? The #2 dps guy has full cleared. Of course you have no problem in a1, a fresh lvl 60 can faceroll a1. You don't have any experience past a1 on any character (at least on that account) so your opinion has no merit backing it.
i'm pvp-doctor.
Hardcore pvp-doctor with no pvp in the game, that must be fun
do you guys wanna hear from the #1 WD in the world in HC? ok, so here's my 2c:
WD is so OP as it is. really depends on how you play it. i can tank, i can dish out solid amount of damage, and i can cc quite well. some skills are underused, i agree. but even if they buff them, WDs are still going to be a skill-based character. better players are just going to be better than most, even than most classes. so most people think WD are bad only because they are bad at playing it. so for me, no changes is ideal.
Why should we care about #1 HC DPS that's too afraid to leave a1? The #2 dps guy has full cleared. Of course you have no problem in a1, a fresh lvl 60 can faceroll a1. You don't have any experience past a1 on any character (at least on that account) so your opinion has no merit backing it.
i am #34 dps. sorry you were misinformed. also, i'm pvp-doctor. i don't progress. sorry if you think diablo for me is about killing bosses. it is for other people, not me and my team.
Oh sorry, it's "heroscore" - some made up measurement of stats that the site uses to make you feel superior.
So now your opinion matters not because of your progress in the actual game, but rather because of your merits in the non-existent pvp system? The simple fact of the matter is you have no idea how WD will fair in pvp and you have no experience with what ails WD's past the a1 cakewalk.
Absolutely agree, act 1 is like first grade in school and act 3 is like the PHD. If this guy (THE BEST WD iN THE WORLD) did not even passed act 1 than he saw nothing of the game and we really do not need his opinion
what do you mean? i'm farming A3 right now. lol. what more do you want? oh bosses? you think bosses are tougher than elites?
well, im so effin happy. this means i can just stand there and watch my dogs eat diablo alive. and not do a thing. against arcane, means i can spam the hell out of them with sb, dead in 15 seconds and not lose mana. gg indeed! thanks blizzard!
well, im so effin happy. this means i can just stand there and watch my dogs eat diablo alive. and not do a thing. against arcane, means i can spam the hell out of them with sb, dead in 15 seconds and not lose mana. gg indeed! thanks blizzard!
Spirit Barrage with The Spirit Is Willing might be the only thing that can be spammed now that they're completely gutting VQ but it's not nearly as good as bats and bears are.
If you haven't seen the official page yet, they did change VQ as expected (30% mana regen after using a signature spell - permanent if one of those signature spells is rune as a summon ala spider queen), but base mana regen is up from 20 to 45.
I don't have the napkin math to support a projection about how well this will balance out compared to current VQ builds, but it appears their goal (and they are still internally testing) is to level off mana consumption. Whether or not that will translate into "not enough burst," or "holy crap I can spam bears for days," remains to be seen.
If I had to take an honest guess at their goal I would think that the number of bears you can cast before needing to regen would be something equivalent to the number of blizzard casts a wizard can get off before running out of AP. Of course that's an imperfect comparison given the different resource systems and skill synergies, but you get the idea. The (laudable) goal appears to be for current VQ build to be able to save those hefty cooldowns for when they are actually needed, rather than having them churned over constantly in order to keep the passive running.
Again, I won't guess on how close to the mark they will actually come, but I would have to take issue with anyone who thinks the current situation with VQ is superior to their general proposal.
vision quest, spirutal attunement. blood ritual, spider queen a voodoo helm with mana regen 11, a 2h mace or axe with 10-12 zombie charger cost reduction. and no IAS gear
this will reduce the of zombie charger cost per second to about 81, and your mana regen will be about 81 per second.
also remember you will have big bad voodoo - rain dance that will let you channel bears for atleast 20 seconds.
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If you haven't seen the official page yet, they did change VQ as expected (30% mana regen after using a signature spell - permanent if one of those signature spells is rune as a summon ala spider queen), but base mana regen is up from 20 to 45.
I don't have the napkin math to support a projection about how well this will balance out compared to current VQ builds, but it appears their goal (and they are still internally testing) is to level off mana consumption. Whether or not that will translate into "not enough burst," or "holy crap I can spam bears for days," remains to be seen.
If I had to take an honest guess at their goal I would think that the number of bears you can cast before needing to regen would be something equivalent to the number of blizzard casts a wizard can get off before running out of AP. Of course that's an imperfect comparison given the different resource systems and skill synergies, but you get the idea. The (laudable) goal appears to be for current VQ build to be able to save those hefty cooldowns for when they are actually needed, rather than having them churned over constantly in order to keep the passive running.
I'm not familiar with specs that use blizzard but it's not spamable and afaict it doesn't seem like it would be used in any regen based build so it doesn't seem remotely similar. CM builds are based around lowering cd's and regening AP by critting though, and they said that although the proc coefficients of twister are being nerfed, they still expect CM wizards with high crit chance to not notice any difference.
Again, I won't guess on how close to the mark they will actually come, but I would have to take issue with anyone who thinks the current situation with VQ is superior to their general proposal.
I would much rather have the current VQ with the buffed pets that will use 2 of those CD spots and can tank for me, than to have the new VQ that forces you to use a primary spell to activate it and gives hardly any buff anyways.
ps - You can't really use something like spider queen because what are you going to do the rest of the time when you're OOM? You have to have darts or firebomb unless you want to sit idle over half the time.
vision quest, spirutal attunement. blood ritual, spider queen a voodoo helm with mana regen 11, a 2h mace or axe with 10-12 zombie charger cost reduction. and no IAS gear
this will reduce the of zombie charger cost per second to about 81, and your mana regen will be about 81 per second.
I think you have your cost wrong. I'm not sure whether blood ritual or the weapon cost reduction would be calculated first but best case it would be ((140 * 0.85) - 12) * (0.9 casts per sec) = 96.3 mana/sec unless I missed something?
I like what they did overall. To be honest, I'll still be using VQ in most builds, but it's not as overwhelmingly needed as before. Considering going for mana pool gear and Attunement instead, which I'd actually prefer.
In any case, the change means that competitive builds can actually KEEP COOLDOWNS OPEN and use them as needed against enemies, instead of just spamming them for mana. I have just about zero objections to this, and the changes also make leveling a WD much smoother before you get to the point where regen gear gets decent.
With 1H and Fetish the breakpoint is at 1100 mana before Attunement. With a 2H it's around 900. Above this and it works out better than VQ for sustained damage on Bats, and conveniently doesn't require that I stop and cast every few seconds (especially against fast or Shielding mobs, that may be hard to tag) In a group I swap some of my stuff out for poison and drop Fortitude for Medicine to benefit everyone else.
What I like is that I'm actually messing with builds now. Previously there was only negligible differences among the primary builds and a notable lack of progress among anything that wasn't Splinters, Bats, or Bears. Now, even though I still use the Bats as my main striker, the build is VASTLY different than the current models yet still looking both effective and achievable. Good times
vision quest, spirutal attunement. blood ritual, spider queen a voodoo helm with mana regen 11, a 2h mace or axe with 10-12 zombie charger cost reduction. and no IAS gear
this will reduce the of zombie charger cost per second to about 81, and your mana regen will be about 81 per second.
I think you have your cost wrong. I'm not sure whether blood ritual or the weapon cost reduction would be calculated first but best case it would be ((140 * 0.85) - 12) * (0.9 casts per sec) = 96.3 mana/sec unless I missed something?
yes i noted that a while back but dident change it, i just remembered wrong about blood ritual tought it was 30% instead of 15%. but the idea is still valid tho. another thing i saw, is that -cost on bears can only roll on 2h crossbows, and they got 1.1 base attack speed.
you should still be able to channel bears for a long time before running out of mana tho. and your mana would be back up to full in about 9 seconds running around, witch is a great buff considering it took nearly 25 seconds without the use of VQ.
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More builds at the cost of what we currently have, which isn't all that much. I liked bears as much as anyone, but you can't be serious that you'd rather have the status quo than an entirely re-worked skillset to play with?
That's like saying you'd rather live in chains because you like field-work anyway.
I'm sorry, the reactions some of you are having are just silly. We have no idea the specifics of damage and buffs being made to abilities. The only reason VQ builds are attractive pre 1.03 is because most if not every non-VQ build was purely trash and relied on gearing yourself to have good gear than good builds.
Look at the forest not the trees. By inherently making animations faster they are giving us, what will most likely be, an innate buff to attack speed. No other class seems to be getting their animations adjusted so that's a lot bigger than you think.
The changes to mana are going to allow so many other build varieties, combined with overall buffs to their damage, there's a lot to like.
I would think people would be happy to see their class expanded beyond the 1 dimensional bear/dart spam. But maybe I'm wrong. I really don't see how anyone sees an overall class buff/overhaul (not including details we haven't seen yet) as a negative thing.
I'm sorry, the reactions some of you are having are just silly. We have no idea the specifics of damage and buffs being made to abilities. The only reason VQ builds are attractive pre 1.03 is because most if not every non-VQ build was purely trash and relied on gearing yourself to have good gear than good builds.
Look at the forest not the trees. By inherently making animations faster they are giving us, what will most likely be, an innate buff to attack speed. No other class seems to be getting their animations adjusted so that's a lot bigger than you think.
The changes to mana are going to allow so many other build varieties, combined with overall buffs to their damage, there's a lot to like.
I would think people would be happy to see their class expanded beyond the 1 dimensional bear/dart spam. But maybe I'm wrong. I really don't see how anyone sees an overall class buff/overhaul (not including details we haven't seen yet) as a negative thing.
No... the reason why people used VQ was because our ONLY passive skill that increases damage also makes our spells cost 30% more. This creates a situation where you can pick a primary spell and NOT VQ or you can pick a high damage spell AND VQ. Now, our only option is to do less damage or pick PtV + primary spell. PtV needs to be changed if they eliminate Vision Quest (which is effectively what they did).
So now we have more build choices and we also grow weaker as a class. That's not a tradeoff I was expecting or appreciate.
No... the reason why people used VQ was because our ONLY passive skill that increases damage also makes our spells cost 30% more. This creates a situation where you can pick a primary spell and NOT VQ or you can pick a high damage spell AND VQ. Now, our only option is to do less damage or pick PtV + primary spell. PtV needs to be changed if they eliminate Vision Quest (which is effectively what they did).
So now we have more build choices and we also grow weaker as a class. That's not a tradeoff I was expecting or appreciate.
I can't help but feel you're looking at one ability in a 1.04 incarnation and applying it to 1.03 abilities. Obviously PTV and VQ (1.04) would suck if you weren't spamming bears right now and tried to use spirit barrage. 1.04 is going to see a ton of abilities getting buff, and again as I said their animations being sped up which *should be* an innate buff to attack speed for us, thus increasing our damage. Blizzard said specifically WD is getting the greatest overhaul of abilities. They also said that they aren't touching splinters/bears because they want to bring other abilities more in line with it.
We're also doing a straight damage increase on many skills including (but not limited to) Acid Cloud, Firebats, Firebomb, and Spirit Barrage.
Without any details of HOW much these abilities are being buffed I dont' see how you have a case to run out of the house screaming that because VQ is being changed, that all of a sudden the class "won't do damage". Grow weaker as a class? Do you know how ridiculous this sounds? If you're going to say we run VQ because of PTV, then I can use the same logic to say that we run PTV because all the current abilities are TRASH. As in, 1.03 WD is a rubbish class.
We're getting a base mana regen increase, there's going to be better mana regen gear, with VQ you're essentially going to have a 30% regen with almost 100% uptime, and that doesn't include that you can still run blood ritual (15% mana reduction) or Spiritual Attunement with VQ and PTV and still do fine.
Simply put, we have no idea what nitty gritty details are coming out, but we know that blizzard is buffing the class. I really don't get how you can come off saying that we're going to grow weaker as a class.
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Hardcore pvp-doctor with no pvp in the game, that must be fun
http://www.diablofans.com/blizz-tracker/topic/232855-patch-104-preview-witch-doctor/
what do you mean? i'm farming A3 right now. lol. what more do you want? oh bosses? you think bosses are tougher than elites?
You to take your hardcore PvP-doctor to some other forums and troll other people and leave us alone.
That would be excellent.
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Curse PremiumI don't have the napkin math to support a projection about how well this will balance out compared to current VQ builds, but it appears their goal (and they are still internally testing) is to level off mana consumption. Whether or not that will translate into "not enough burst," or "holy crap I can spam bears for days," remains to be seen.
If I had to take an honest guess at their goal I would think that the number of bears you can cast before needing to regen would be something equivalent to the number of blizzard casts a wizard can get off before running out of AP. Of course that's an imperfect comparison given the different resource systems and skill synergies, but you get the idea. The (laudable) goal appears to be for current VQ build to be able to save those hefty cooldowns for when they are actually needed, rather than having them churned over constantly in order to keep the passive running.
Again, I won't guess on how close to the mark they will actually come, but I would have to take issue with anyone who thinks the current situation with VQ is superior to their general proposal.
read my first post in this thread: http://www.diablofan...11#entry1017611
if you dont wanna thread jump you will need.
vision quest, spirutal attunement. blood ritual, spider queen a voodoo helm with mana regen 11, a 2h mace or axe with 10-12 zombie charger cost reduction. and no IAS gear
this will reduce the of zombie charger cost per second to about 81, and your mana regen will be about 81 per second.
also remember you will have big bad voodoo - rain dance that will let you channel bears for atleast 20 seconds.
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Curse PremiumI'm not familiar with specs that use blizzard but it's not spamable and afaict it doesn't seem like it would be used in any regen based build so it doesn't seem remotely similar. CM builds are based around lowering cd's and regening AP by critting though, and they said that although the proc coefficients of twister are being nerfed, they still expect CM wizards with high crit chance to not notice any difference.
I would much rather have the current VQ with the buffed pets that will use 2 of those CD spots and can tank for me, than to have the new VQ that forces you to use a primary spell to activate it and gives hardly any buff anyways.
ps - You can't really use something like spider queen because what are you going to do the rest of the time when you're OOM? You have to have darts or firebomb unless you want to sit idle over half the time.
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Curse PremiumIn any case, the change means that competitive builds can actually KEEP COOLDOWNS OPEN and use them as needed against enemies, instead of just spamming them for mana. I have just about zero objections to this, and the changes also make leveling a WD much smoother before you get to the point where regen gear gets decent.
Looking at something like http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#kcUjYP!bae!YaZbcb
With 1H and Fetish the breakpoint is at 1100 mana before Attunement. With a 2H it's around 900. Above this and it works out better than VQ for sustained damage on Bats, and conveniently doesn't require that I stop and cast every few seconds (especially against fast or Shielding mobs, that may be hard to tag) In a group I swap some of my stuff out for poison and drop Fortitude for Medicine to benefit everyone else.
What I like is that I'm actually messing with builds now. Previously there was only negligible differences among the primary builds and a notable lack of progress among anything that wasn't Splinters, Bats, or Bears. Now, even though I still use the Bats as my main striker, the build is VASTLY different than the current models yet still looking both effective and achievable. Good times
yes i noted that a while back but dident change it, i just remembered wrong about blood ritual tought it was 30% instead of 15%. but the idea is still valid tho. another thing i saw, is that -cost on bears can only roll on 2h crossbows, and they got 1.1 base attack speed.
you should still be able to channel bears for a long time before running out of mana tho. and your mana would be back up to full in about 9 seconds running around, witch is a great buff considering it took nearly 25 seconds without the use of VQ.
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We just lost our best dps builds. If you care at all about farming, those mana changes hurt.
That's like saying you'd rather live in chains because you like field-work anyway.
Look at the forest not the trees. By inherently making animations faster they are giving us, what will most likely be, an innate buff to attack speed. No other class seems to be getting their animations adjusted so that's a lot bigger than you think.
The changes to mana are going to allow so many other build varieties, combined with overall buffs to their damage, there's a lot to like.
I would think people would be happy to see their class expanded beyond the 1 dimensional bear/dart spam. But maybe I'm wrong. I really don't see how anyone sees an overall class buff/overhaul (not including details we haven't seen yet) as a negative thing.
No... the reason why people used VQ was because our ONLY passive skill that increases damage also makes our spells cost 30% more. This creates a situation where you can pick a primary spell and NOT VQ or you can pick a high damage spell AND VQ. Now, our only option is to do less damage or pick PtV + primary spell. PtV needs to be changed if they eliminate Vision Quest (which is effectively what they did).
So now we have more build choices and we also grow weaker as a class. That's not a tradeoff I was expecting or appreciate.
I can't help but feel you're looking at one ability in a 1.04 incarnation and applying it to 1.03 abilities. Obviously PTV and VQ (1.04) would suck if you weren't spamming bears right now and tried to use spirit barrage. 1.04 is going to see a ton of abilities getting buff, and again as I said their animations being sped up which *should be* an innate buff to attack speed for us, thus increasing our damage. Blizzard said specifically WD is getting the greatest overhaul of abilities. They also said that they aren't touching splinters/bears because they want to bring other abilities more in line with it.
Without any details of HOW much these abilities are being buffed I dont' see how you have a case to run out of the house screaming that because VQ is being changed, that all of a sudden the class "won't do damage". Grow weaker as a class? Do you know how ridiculous this sounds? If you're going to say we run VQ because of PTV, then I can use the same logic to say that we run PTV because all the current abilities are TRASH. As in, 1.03 WD is a rubbish class.
We're getting a base mana regen increase, there's going to be better mana regen gear, with VQ you're essentially going to have a 30% regen with almost 100% uptime, and that doesn't include that you can still run blood ritual (15% mana reduction) or Spiritual Attunement with VQ and PTV and still do fine.
Simply put, we have no idea what nitty gritty details are coming out, but we know that blizzard is buffing the class. I really don't get how you can come off saying that we're going to grow weaker as a class.