The Drake equation states that:
where: N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible; and R* is the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxyfp is the fraction of those stars that have planetsne is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planetsfℓ is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some pointfi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent lifefc is the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into spaceL is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.[2]
the only problem with the drake equation is that you can throw whatever data you want into it... but with realistic data compiled by nasa they figured it to be 2.31 more advanced civilizations in our galaxy... this is pretty good estimate seeing as how our galaxy alone is 10,000 light years thick and 300,000 light years wide...
the only problem with the drake equation is that you can throw whatever data you want into it... but with realistic data compiled by nasa they figured it to be 2.31 more advanced civilizations in our galaxy... this is pretty good estimate seeing as how our galaxy alone is 10,000 light years thick and 300,000 light years wide...
Good analysis gamma. However, I doubt that formula is able to take into account some of the unusual circumstances we've found ourselves in on Earth. For example, we have an unusually gigantic moon which helps pull asteroids away from Earth. Some scientists theorize that our large moon is the only reason we've survived long enough to advance as far as we have.
I really don't know if those kinds of considerations are accounted for in this formula, but here's my general mode of thought on the subject. I'm almost positive we're going to discover life on other planets. The sheer numbers are staggeringly in favor of it. Basically all you need is an rocky planet that's the correct distance away from it's star to have liquid water. Scientists already know that we're going to find countless planets that meet these specifications, nearly any of which could harbor life, albeit this life would most likely be types of algae and bacteria.
The challenge isn't going to be finding a planet with life, it's going to be finding another planet with life of intelligence comparable to ours. However, if you think about it... we're not gonna find them, they're gonna find us. If we find life, it will be burgeoning life that probably can't communicate. The life with superior intelligence will also be searching, much like we will, and they'll probably contact us before we even know they're there, simply because they're more advanced than we are.
Our existence has been in the blink of an eye, so the intelligent life out there is likely to have existed far longer than we have, because the odds of them evolving at the same time as us are astronomically small (pun intended :P). With this in mind, they probably have the technology to search the universe and locate us with ease. If they exist, they've probably been watching us for a long time now. Some would argue that the fact that they haven't contacted us should be proof enough that this advanced life doesn't exist, but maybe they're just waiting for the right time to say hi...
Good analysis gamma. However, I doubt that formula is able to take into account some of the unusual circumstances we've found ourselves in on Earth. For example, we have an unusually gigantic moon which helps pull asteroids away from Earth. Some scientists theorize that our large moon is the only reason we've survived long enough to advance as far as we have.
I really don't know if those kinds of considerations are accounted for in this formula, but here's my general mode of thought on the subject. I'm almost positive we're going to discover life on other planets. The sheer numbers are staggeringly in favor of it. Basically all you need is an rocky planet that's the correct distance away from it's star to have liquid water. Scientists already know that we're going to find countless planets that meet these specifications, nearly any of which could harbor life, albeit this life would most likely be types of algae and bacteria.
The challenge isn't going to be finding a planet with life, it's going to be finding another planet with life of intelligence comparable to ours. However, if you think about it... we're not gonna find them, they're gonna find us. If we find life, it will be burgeoning life that probably can't communicate. The life with superior intelligence will also be searching, much like we will, and they'll probably contact us before we even know they're there, simply because they're more advanced than we are.
Our existence has been in the blink of an eye, so the intelligent life out there is likely to have existed far longer than we have, because the odds of them evolving at the same time as us are astronomically small (pun intended :P). With this in mind, they probably have the technology to search the universe and locate us with ease. If they exist, they've probably been watching us for a long time now. Some would argue that the fact that they haven't contacted us should be proof enough that this advanced life doesn't exist, but maybe they're just waiting for the right time to say hi...
yea i agree for the most part but we have the perfect environment for our type of life... we do not know yet if life can survive off of different molecules... we are carbon based and require oxygen to breathe and support our life functions... the only thing that they have been talking about as far as planets go is them being in the habitibable zone of a star... they are leaving ope the thoughts that if a planet is a gas planet or a terrestrial (rocky) planet there might be other molecules that can provide a basis of life... and i think they havent contacted us yet because they are smart...we are eventually going to kill ourselves off regardless of what anybody else thinks... the earth has been through many many mass extinction events and were overdue for another one... the next one probably wont be a natural phenomenon though... it willl probably be at the hands of our own technology...
If Egyptians had electricity then where are their electrical devices and generators?
If they were intelligent enough to have complex electrical supplies then wheres the technical diagrams and electrical mathematics etc
Some people go 'ancient technology' crazy... There have been times in history where historians have been surprised at ancient technology I'm sure. Like intricate calculating machinery and very primitive electrical sources which are way ahead of their time. Ancient civilizations were also much better at moving large objects than was previously thought...
But to say that they were somehow MORE advanced then todays technology is just plain stupid. Satellites, electronic computation, combustion motors, flying machines... evidence? no... *sigh*
Not directed at you Ranim, directed at crazy people
If Egyptians had electricity then where are their electrical devices and generators?
If they were intelligent enough to have complex electrical supplies then wheres the technical diagrams and electrical mathematics etc
Some people go 'ancient technology' crazy... There have been times in history where historians have been surprised at ancient technology I'm sure. Like intricate calculating machinery and very primitive electrical sources which are way ahead of their time. Ancient civilizations were also much better at moving large objects than was previously thought...
But to say that they were somehow MORE advanced then todays technology is just plain stupid. Satellites, electronic computation, combustion motors, flying machines... evidence? no... *sigh*
Not directed at you Ranim, directed at crazy people
You can easily say logically that it was improbable. But we have barely anything from 15,000 years ago so how can we absolutely rule out the possability that at an earlier point there was a civilization that was similarly advanced or more than ours. There is at least 200,000 years of unaccounted history, even if we were not as sophisticated as we are now. How is it that we are genetically incompatible with Neanderthals, while we're at it. Fly cars is a stretch but we live in a country where the ordinary would have caused people like George Washtington to shoot at cars at first sight because he would think they are mechanical demons
There is a paper thin sheet of the glass that is made from a nuclear explosion (I think it's called Trinitium) spread across Europe, the Mideast, Northern Africa and India, deep under the soil simultaniously at a layer point in all excavated areas dating to at least 6,000 years old. I don't even know if there is a link that talks about it, it's been years since I learned about it.
Despite that though, we're still re-evaluating our perspective of the past, so I'm still a moderate to it.
If mankind was wiped off the face of the planet, even by the most horrendous nuclear war tomorrow, evidence of our species would last much longer than 15,000 years. I'd bet it would last longer than 200,000 years also. With our current technology to detect the extraordinarily subtle, we should be able to detect something as monstrously effecting as an advanced civilization
we're still re-evaluating our perspective of the past
I agree that people often have a warped view of ancient technologies (especially the theoretical, like ancient mathematics). Some people think that all they had was a lion cloth and two sticks to rub together... But some people think cavemen ran around with gravity guns :rolleyes:
P.S - I kept that link, and when i get an hour or so, I'll watch it the entire way through
If mankind was wiped off the face of the planet, even by the most horrendous nuclear war tomorrow, evidence of our species would last much longer than 15,000 years. I'd bet it would last longer than 200,000 years also. With our current technology to detect the extraordinarily subtle, we should be able to detect something as monstrously effecting as an advanced civilization
I agree that people often have a warped view of ancient technologies (especially the theoretical, like ancient mathematics). Some people think that all they had was a lion cloth and two sticks to rub together... But some people think cavemen ran around with gravity guns :rolleyes:
P.S - I kept that link, and when i get an hour or so, I'll watch it the entire way through
According to Stephen hawking, the chance that an alien life form exists in the whole universe is 100%, considering how bit the universe is.
I believe that aliens that are way more technologically advanced than us, have already visited us, and you ask "Then why didnt they show themselves, or why didnt we see it on news" Well, heres your answer:
If you were a super technological advanced living being, and you discovered this planet, after a few minutes you would discover the most secret bases on earth, like area 51 and the likes. So, you go and visit those places because you know that the most powerful people on this planet are there. Why would you just go to the streets of some big city and get pwned by 1000000000 people trying to take a photo of you or something...
Now its important for us to understand how much our knowledge is affected by the media. Everything that happens today, we know about it because of the media. In secret countries' bases, there are no cameras and reporters... Therefore we dont know anything about what happens there.
Now im not telling you that theres a world wide conspiracy involving our country leaders and the aliens, b ut im just saying that we should all be aware of this fact, because it is most likely to happen, IF it happens...
There is a paper thin sheet of the glass that is made from a nuclear explosion (I think it's called Trinitium) spread across Europe, the Mideast, Northern Africa and India, deep under the soil simultaniously at a layer point in all excavated areas dating to at least 6,000 years old. I don't even know if there is a link that talks about it, it's been years since I learned about it.
Not very likely. There's a sheet of glass in Africa that is about 6,000 years old I think which can be created by nuclear explosions. However, a meteor can also create the same effect. All requires is some masive heat.
You'll definately have to dig up a link if you want us to buy that it exists everywhere in the world.
Quote from "Jamoose" »
If you were a super technological advanced living being, and you discovered this planet, after a few minutes you would discover the most secret bases on earth, like area 51 and the likes. So, you go and visit those places because you know that the most powerful people on this planet are there. Why would you just go to the streets of some big city and get pwned by 1000000000 people trying to take a photo of you or something...
Or better yet: Anyone ever think that perhaps they haven't dared entering our atmosphere? perhaps oxygen is toxic to them, or they do not know what kind of microbial life we have that may affect them upon contact.
I mean, if we were to explore other worlds, we'd definately make sure the atmosphere was safe for humans before we landed people
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Most scientist who claim there are no extra-terrestrial beings besides ourselves are basing it on the fact that they think like HAS to be carbon based, just like ourselves.
I think that's an extremely ignorant way of looking at things. Just because we haven't discovered non-carbon based lifeforms doesn't mean they exist. It was like people back i the 1600's saying they were positive that the only land masses on the planet was Europe, Asian, and Africa (since NA had yet to be discovered). Maybe a bad analogy, but you get my point.
Hell, we don't even know for sure if physics are the same throughout the entire Universe.
And I think this should explain pretty well as to the question of the chance that there's other life besides ourselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGxRWCmwSDE ... yeah.
Yeah.... there probably are aliens out there.
Pretty much the most common argument ever right here, but our universe is massive, so it's pretty much impossible that we're on the ONLY planet capable of creating/sustaining life.
And yeah, like Lydeck said.. who says that all life must be carbon based?
Hell, each planet could produce a different form of life. On earth, life has evolved based on the materials present. Most animals/plants/whatever here on earth needs water, oxygen or carbon dioxide, and nutrients.
If life evolved on say Jupiter, who says that it cannot breathe hydrogen ?
Hope that made sense :/
Basically trying to say that all life doesn't have to work like us.
Just because a planet can't support human life, doesn't mean that it can't support other forms of life.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
Not very likely. There's a sheet of glass in Africa that is about 6,000 years old I think which can be created by nuclear explosions. However, a meteor can also create the same effect. All requires is some masive heat.
You'll definately have to dig up a link if you want us to buy that it exists everywhere in the world.
I took a few minutes to try looking for it, but all I found were more conspiracy theory websites. I guess I can't prove it.
So, there were ancient civilizations that were more technologically advanced than we think or know... These civilizations were wiped out by strange heat waves which can be created only by a volcano eruption, a meteor crash, and an atom bomb. When there are no volcanoes in the area, and no signs of a meteor crash site, then scientists have only one option and its that there was some kind of an atom bomb explosion or a different kind of weapon that wiped out all those empires like Atlantis, Indian, Pakistani, middle eastern empires...
The glass on the desert sand (Libyan Desert Glass) Is also an effect of great heat on sand, which melts the silicon in the sand and causes it to surface and form a glass like layer... This heat is also unknown... Either a weapon such as an atom bomb, or a natural disaster that we do not know of.
All of this could be alien intervening in our world maybe? maybe some alien culture had a reason to change a few things in our world, or maybe they were just having fun with the primitive earthlings... who knows.
I think we should all wait to see what will happen in 2012 ;-)
So, there were ancient civilizations that were more technologically advanced than we think or know... These civilizations were wiped out by strange heat waves which can be created only by a volcano eruption, a meteor crash, and an atom bomb. When there are no volcanoes in the area, and no signs of a meteor crash site, then scientists have only one option and its that there was some kind of an atom bomb explosion or a different kind of weapon that wiped out all those empires like Atlantis, Indian, Pakistani, middle eastern empires...
Just think about it for a moment though. A civilization that existed 8,000 years ago, suddenly disappeared, and the only thing left are glass sheets? No ruins whatsoever? No buried spacecraft of the past somewhere undergorund?
Sure there are strange things in our world. But perhaps we should not jump to the most extreme of conclusions as fast as we can.
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where:
N is the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible; and
R* is the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxyfp is the fraction of those stars that have planetsne is the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planetsfℓ is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some pointfi is the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent lifefc is the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into spaceL is the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.[2]
the only problem with the drake equation is that you can throw whatever data you want into it... but with realistic data compiled by nasa they figured it to be 2.31 more advanced civilizations in our galaxy... this is pretty good estimate seeing as how our galaxy alone is 10,000 light years thick and 300,000 light years wide...
gamma11 > east
Good analysis gamma. However, I doubt that formula is able to take into account some of the unusual circumstances we've found ourselves in on Earth. For example, we have an unusually gigantic moon which helps pull asteroids away from Earth. Some scientists theorize that our large moon is the only reason we've survived long enough to advance as far as we have.
I really don't know if those kinds of considerations are accounted for in this formula, but here's my general mode of thought on the subject. I'm almost positive we're going to discover life on other planets. The sheer numbers are staggeringly in favor of it. Basically all you need is an rocky planet that's the correct distance away from it's star to have liquid water. Scientists already know that we're going to find countless planets that meet these specifications, nearly any of which could harbor life, albeit this life would most likely be types of algae and bacteria.
The challenge isn't going to be finding a planet with life, it's going to be finding another planet with life of intelligence comparable to ours. However, if you think about it... we're not gonna find them, they're gonna find us. If we find life, it will be burgeoning life that probably can't communicate. The life with superior intelligence will also be searching, much like we will, and they'll probably contact us before we even know they're there, simply because they're more advanced than we are.
Our existence has been in the blink of an eye, so the intelligent life out there is likely to have existed far longer than we have, because the odds of them evolving at the same time as us are astronomically small (pun intended :P). With this in mind, they probably have the technology to search the universe and locate us with ease. If they exist, they've probably been watching us for a long time now. Some would argue that the fact that they haven't contacted us should be proof enough that this advanced life doesn't exist, but maybe they're just waiting for the right time to say hi...
It is known that on earth some life forms NEED very extreme conditions to live...Example, fish, algae in the ocean floor..
Or bacteria that live in volcanoes (or near it)..
If they find a bacteria on another planet, then we know already that the chances of life on other planets are 100's of times better..
This guy is right about a lot of what he claims, but some of what he says is baseless rubbish
yea i agree for the most part but we have the perfect environment for our type of life... we do not know yet if life can survive off of different molecules... we are carbon based and require oxygen to breathe and support our life functions... the only thing that they have been talking about as far as planets go is them being in the habitibable zone of a star... they are leaving ope the thoughts that if a planet is a gas planet or a terrestrial (rocky) planet there might be other molecules that can provide a basis of life... and i think they havent contacted us yet because they are smart...we are eventually going to kill ourselves off regardless of what anybody else thinks... the earth has been through many many mass extinction events and were overdue for another one... the next one probably wont be a natural phenomenon though... it willl probably be at the hands of our own technology...
gamma11 > east
If they were intelligent enough to have complex electrical supplies then wheres the technical diagrams and electrical mathematics etc
Some people go 'ancient technology' crazy... There have been times in history where historians have been surprised at ancient technology I'm sure. Like intricate calculating machinery and very primitive electrical sources which are way ahead of their time. Ancient civilizations were also much better at moving large objects than was previously thought...
But to say that they were somehow MORE advanced then todays technology is just plain stupid. Satellites, electronic computation, combustion motors, flying machines... evidence? no... *sigh*
Not directed at you Ranim, directed at crazy people
You can easily say logically that it was improbable. But we have barely anything from 15,000 years ago so how can we absolutely rule out the possability that at an earlier point there was a civilization that was similarly advanced or more than ours. There is at least 200,000 years of unaccounted history, even if we were not as sophisticated as we are now. How is it that we are genetically incompatible with Neanderthals, while we're at it. Fly cars is a stretch but we live in a country where the ordinary would have caused people like George Washtington to shoot at cars at first sight because he would think they are mechanical demons
There is a paper thin sheet of the glass that is made from a nuclear explosion (I think it's called Trinitium) spread across Europe, the Mideast, Northern Africa and India, deep under the soil simultaniously at a layer point in all excavated areas dating to at least 6,000 years old. I don't even know if there is a link that talks about it, it's been years since I learned about it.
Despite that though, we're still re-evaluating our perspective of the past, so I'm still a moderate to it.
If mankind was wiped off the face of the planet, even by the most horrendous nuclear war tomorrow, evidence of our species would last much longer than 15,000 years. I'd bet it would last longer than 200,000 years also. With our current technology to detect the extraordinarily subtle, we should be able to detect something as monstrously effecting as an advanced civilization
I agree that people often have a warped view of ancient technologies (especially the theoretical, like ancient mathematics). Some people think that all they had was a lion cloth and two sticks to rub together... But some people think cavemen ran around with gravity guns :rolleyes:
P.S - I kept that link, and when i get an hour or so, I'll watch it the entire way through
John Deer made the Earth!
I believe that aliens that are way more technologically advanced than us, have already visited us, and you ask "Then why didnt they show themselves, or why didnt we see it on news" Well, heres your answer:
If you were a super technological advanced living being, and you discovered this planet, after a few minutes you would discover the most secret bases on earth, like area 51 and the likes. So, you go and visit those places because you know that the most powerful people on this planet are there. Why would you just go to the streets of some big city and get pwned by 1000000000 people trying to take a photo of you or something...
Now its important for us to understand how much our knowledge is affected by the media. Everything that happens today, we know about it because of the media. In secret countries' bases, there are no cameras and reporters... Therefore we dont know anything about what happens there.
Now im not telling you that theres a world wide conspiracy involving our country leaders and the aliens, b ut im just saying that we should all be aware of this fact, because it is most likely to happen, IF it happens...
Was i clear enough? xD
You'll definately have to dig up a link if you want us to buy that it exists everywhere in the world.
Or better yet: Anyone ever think that perhaps they haven't dared entering our atmosphere? perhaps oxygen is toxic to them, or they do not know what kind of microbial life we have that may affect them upon contact.
I mean, if we were to explore other worlds, we'd definately make sure the atmosphere was safe for humans before we landed people
I think that's an extremely ignorant way of looking at things. Just because we haven't discovered non-carbon based lifeforms doesn't mean they exist. It was like people back i the 1600's saying they were positive that the only land masses on the planet was Europe, Asian, and Africa (since NA had yet to be discovered). Maybe a bad analogy, but you get my point.
Hell, we don't even know for sure if physics are the same throughout the entire Universe.
And I think this should explain pretty well as to the question of the chance that there's other life besides ourselves: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGxRWCmwSDE ... yeah.
CyberPunk RP Nexus
Pretty much the most common argument ever right here, but our universe is massive, so it's pretty much impossible that we're on the ONLY planet capable of creating/sustaining life.
And yeah, like Lydeck said.. who says that all life must be carbon based?
Hell, each planet could produce a different form of life. On earth, life has evolved based on the materials present. Most animals/plants/whatever here on earth needs water, oxygen or carbon dioxide, and nutrients.
If life evolved on say Jupiter, who says that it cannot breathe hydrogen ?
Hope that made sense :/
Basically trying to say that all life doesn't have to work like us.
Just because a planet can't support human life, doesn't mean that it can't support other forms of life.
I took a few minutes to try looking for it, but all I found were more conspiracy theory websites. I guess I can't prove it.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ancientatomicwar/esp_ancient_atomic_01.htm
There's the link anyway.
I love this toon, it's so me.
So, there were ancient civilizations that were more technologically advanced than we think or know... These civilizations were wiped out by strange heat waves which can be created only by a volcano eruption, a meteor crash, and an atom bomb. When there are no volcanoes in the area, and no signs of a meteor crash site, then scientists have only one option and its that there was some kind of an atom bomb explosion or a different kind of weapon that wiped out all those empires like Atlantis, Indian, Pakistani, middle eastern empires...
The glass on the desert sand (Libyan Desert Glass) Is also an effect of great heat on sand, which melts the silicon in the sand and causes it to surface and form a glass like layer... This heat is also unknown... Either a weapon such as an atom bomb, or a natural disaster that we do not know of.
All of this could be alien intervening in our world maybe? maybe some alien culture had a reason to change a few things in our world, or maybe they were just having fun with the primitive earthlings... who knows.
I think we should all wait to see what will happen in 2012 ;-)
Edit: btw, thanks for the great link.
Sure there are strange things in our world. But perhaps we should not jump to the most extreme of conclusions as fast as we can.