I'd be okay with this system, but with two restrictions;
If you're only allowed access to items that have dropped for other people in the clan you joined AFTER you joined, and you're only allowed to be in 1 clan per game type ( SC / HC ). I realize this isn't ideal for some, as they probably want to have 1 character in a clan of their buddies, another in a serious one, ect. But, the reason why I'm for BoA in general and why I'd only like this system with these specific restrictions is, I (and yes it's a personal opinion) want the *best* way to acquire items to be actually farming them yourself. If this system is put into place without the 1 clan per game mode rule, then the best way to acquire items instantly becomes having 1 character sit in a 3rd party bot clan, so you can just buy any item that drops off the 99 other bots in the clan from the website ( or whatever the max people in a clan is ).
Well maka, I'm sorry this issue is so stressful for you. I'm sorry this is such a dealbreaker. I'm sorry that Blizzard is telling you what's fun, and bossing you around, and changing your routines and preventing you from interacting with your friends in the way you want.
News flash...I can't fix this. At least not on my own. All I can do is pretty much you said in that other thread...make noise and suggestions. And as far as I can see, that's what I'm doing here.
Where is any real suggestion or noise from you besides contradicting OTHER people day in and day out? Trust me, I'm not telling you to not post in this thread anymore, post here as much as you want. But at least I'm making a well-thought out suggestion. I'm doing my share of critical thinking, coming up with suggestions, ideas, philosophies that seem to make everyone happy on all fronts.
At least making suggestions this way, and on the official forums at the same time, I'm putting other reasonable alternatives right under Blizzard's nose. I can buy the expansion with a clear conscience, knowing I did about as much as can be expected of me as a player, short of holding protests outside their Headquarters, to make this game the best it can be, and not just what I want it to be.
So please do this forum, and Blizzard, a favor. Post a nice long thread about what you think should change about what they're doing in the expansion and pre-patch. I'd love to read all the ways you feel they're tying your hands and ruining your enjoyment, despite practically overhauling the entire game.
I'm sure it won't come off as exaggerated or making mountains out of molehills at all.
Exactly this. I've never once said people who don't like BoA are wrong. I'm not an elitist jaggoff who says people have to play the way I want to play. But unfortunately the amount of counter ideas I've heard on this subject is almost zero. In fact, other than 'just don't do it', I haven't heard a single reasonable approach, or logical thought out idea on how we can have both a stable, non-flooded economy, as well as free trading, balanced self found AND having playing the game the best way to acquire sought after items.
If the answer is 'well, I don't care about an inflated economy, I just want to have free trading and great self found', then awesome, that's where you stand. But realize there's a very large chunk of players (judging solely on the sentiment I see on both here and the Bnet forums) that DO care about how out of control the economy could get, and about how 3rd party bot sites will instantly become THE place to get your gear, again. I think the majority of us can agree that the AH really was detrimental to D3V. Well, taking out the AH but leaving up free for all trading just replaced the AH with 3rd party sites, and we're back to square one.
But realize there's a very large chunk of players (judging solely on the sentiment I see on both here and the Bnet forums) that DO care about how out of control the economy could get...
Those guys that rather prefer no economy at all should just ignore the broken economy that exists when there also is a solid selffound experience. It seems quite hypocritical for me if someone demands a good selffound experience and still complains once he gets it, just because other players also get what they want.
The inflated economy of Diablo 2 non-ladder always found a common currency once the old one became uninteresting or worthless. When I started playing Diablo 2 11 years ago, the standard currencies were 290s charms, 3/20/20 charms, sojs, high runes, ist runes etc. Ignore the fact now all of these were duped for sure in non-ladder, because in ladder mode where dupes are very unlikely compared to 1.08/1.09 times, the same thing happens with standard currencies.
So what I actually want to say with this is, the economy always found a way to have a more or less stable currency. The inflation also didn't make standard uniques completely worthless, because at some point people didn't even bother starting a trade for a too low price and thus the price of those items was stable or effectively increased based on inflation.
What I want to add is, like I said before, just saying no is a suggestion and reflects the personal opinion perfectly (otherwise a no wouldn't be sufficient). I also don't see a point to start a middle-ground discussion with selffound players. They are the ones who get EVERYTHING they demanded, without compromises. And yet the pro-traders are expected to step into negotiations of what could be an acceptable compromise? There is none, because whatever gets suggested to lift trading restrictions doesn't affect the selffound experience in any way (and what is known from RoS there will be a solid selffound experience). So those compromises are always one-sided and basically just need "approval" from the anti-trade faction. I don't think there is a solid foundation for compromises and I will just draw the consequences. And while I am still interested in the progress of the Diablo franchise, it should be understandable I take part in the discussions.
Don't get me wrong, Cardinal, I totally support this from a "it's still a hell of a lot better than the current proposition" perspective. Honestly, I think this is what they should have *started* at instead of going Full Monty on us. I really think we'd *all* be less testy and having much more productive discussion on the subject if a significant segment of the playerbase didn't feel like their backs were against a wall on this subject.
That being said, anything they can do to make clans more than a private chat channel (used mostly for LFG) I would strongly support. I don't want clans to turn into "trade cartels" either. But, I personally hate the "only can have it if you're a friend/clanmate after it dropped" restriction - although you didn't propose this it seems to be a prevalent idea. I just have to say that you and I could be friends. I think it would be really shitty if we decide to be BFFs three months into RoS and suddenly you're not able to have any loot from before that. It's almost like we have to plan out our friends/clanmates.... and to me that's such a bizarre and artificial restriction. It's not very organic, it's not very intuitive.
So, I hope they really stray from that particular notion. It makes sense if you're looking at a "use this to stop traders" perspective, but if you look at it as a holistic solution to a problem, it's very janky and confusing.
Ultimately, I just don't feel that lobbing off 99% of trading produces a very good place to have reasonable, cool-headed, discussion on the subject. That is Blizzard's fault for not playing it cool, for not really even discussing this with us. The fact that there really hasn't been much back-and-forth despite a pretty significant portion of the population wanting LESS RESTRICTIONS on trading is kinda hurtful. We don't even have the decency to understand what they're trying to accomplish and why they think this is the best way to do it.
And, I fully expect something more "meaty" than "we think it's most fun to find your gear from monsters." All of us get that, and all of us agree with that. That doesn't mean we want that to be the ONLY way. Even if I only execute one trade per year, I don't want to hear "you MUST find items from monsters, Nick" ... it's just too totalitarian and absolutist. Let me be the big boy I am and let me figure out if I want to make a trade for a particular item or if I want to keep grinding it. Perhaps this week I'll want to grind it out, but after four months I'll be ready to admit that RNG kicked my ass and move on. I am old enough and smart enough to evaluate that on my own, though. And if I am the cause of my own dissatisfaction with the game... well chalk that up to living and learning.
Quote from Bleu42»
I'm not an elitist jaggoff who says people have to play the way I want to play.
AND having playing the game the best way to acquire sought after items.
No offense, but it does seem to me that you are of the opinion that anyone who "acquires sought-after items" in any means other than killing monsters is "playing the game wrong."
Can't you be a TAD bit more open to the idea that a large portion of us don't want to be trading 24/7. Hell, some of us might not even execute one trade per month. But we still want that option, and that we are not "playing the game wrong?" It's really, really, getting old to hear this (strawman) argument that everyone who trades isn't "playing the game." If I acquire 95% of my items from monsters, hell 90%, isn't that still PLAYING THE GAME 90%+ of the time? Isn't that a pretty damned reasonable threshold? Why does it have to be 99.9999999% or more?
The whole problem with the "anti-trading bloc" argument is the "if you're not getting as close to 100% of your items from monsters as humanly possible then you're not playing the game properly" train of thought leaves NO ROOM FOR ANY NEGOTIATION OR COMPROMISE. It's "play my way or get the fuck out!"
If we're talking about a compromise... that's a horrible starting point. It really comes off as one side refuses to even listen. Their only perspective is "my way or the highway." And, frankly, it may seem good in the short term when you're getting your way, but that's an atrocious way to design a game with millions of players. It can *never* be anyone's way or the highway, even Blizzard's. There are too many parties that have a vested interest in the game for any discussion to be that black-and-white.