So i dunno if it is a bug or something but assuming i dodge everything else that the mobs put out atm my health stays in 1 place due to lifesteal ect. so reflect damage is not much trouble until the mobs get health link is it just me or do you all se major health drops when going against those combos?
I've heard a few people mention that combo, and I've noticed it too. I don't know if it's a bug of just how the health link works, like you do x damage to one, but it only actually does x/3 damage and the other 2x/3 damage is just moved to the other mobs, or something. Then the damage reflect is still based on the X damage. At least, that's my guess.
Also, is it just me or does damage reflect seem to act a little different on groups than individual mobs? I swear that against 1-2 mobs, my health stays even or even goes up a little, but when there's a whole group, like 5 minions+rare elite, my health goes down pretty fast. It seems to me that if I break even against 1 I should break even against any number. Has anyone else seen that or is it just me?
I've heard a few people mention that combo, and I've noticed it too. I don't know if it's a bug of just how the health link works, like you do x damage to one, but it only actually does x/3 damage and the other 2x/3 damage is just moved to the other mobs, or something. Then the damage reflect is still based on the X damage. At least, that's my guess.
Also, is it just me or does damage reflect seem to act a little different on groups than individual mobs? I swear that against 1-2 mobs, my health stays even or even goes up a little, but when there's a whole group, like 5 minions+rare elite, my health goes down pretty fast. It seems to me that if I break even against 1 I should break even against any number. Has anyone else seen that or is it just me?
Without understanding the full context, my guess is that you are probably using AOE skills that hit multiple mobs. For example, if you are using explosive blast and hit 5 monsters (vs. 2), you will be dealing more damage and thus have more damage reflected back.
Would require further exploring if you are using single-target skills though.
could be the same reason that health link+ reflect seem to rape me havent noticed too much on groups but dear god some times just feel like skipping an entire zone just to skip a pack
as for aoe spells.... archon beam is my spell of choice..........
It seems when you hit one elite with Health Link, you're essentially hitting all of them simultaneously. And if you hit them all at one, you're destroying your own HP at a ridiculously high rate.
RD+Health Link. Bad.
RD+Extra Health. Really bad.
RD+Horde. Stupid bad.
RD+Vampiric. Coma-inducing bad.
Any combinations of RD-Extra Health-Horde-Vampiric will make me curse the RNG gods.
I believe the issue is that if you hit 1, your damage gets split to all of them, and they all trigger the reflect.
However, the game calculates Life Steal as if you are just hitting the first one, which means you are getting the full reflect amount but only 1/4 of the life steal. For those people that are basically "break even" on life steal vs reflect mobs, that can be really bad.
so its not the reflect damage that would be the problem it would be blizzard and lifesteal not working as well on i guess groups and health link? also lol jaetch ^.^
side note horde, mortar, reflect, fast demonic tremors CAN GO TO FREAKING HELL SKREW YOU BLIZZARD AND THAT COMBO!
with 3% lifesteal, 8k armor, 700 res all, rend+bloodlust (9% lifesteal) i was actually loosing life vs reflect+link. was quite.... retarded. like... how am i actually supposed to kill that if i LOOSE hp at a rate greater than 12% lifesteal?
I've heard a few people mention that combo, and I've noticed it too. I don't know if it's a bug of just how the health link works, like you do x damage to one, but it only actually does x/3 damage and the other 2x/3 damage is just moved to the other mobs, or something. Then the damage reflect is still based on the X damage. At least, that's my guess.
Also, is it just me or does damage reflect seem to act a little different on groups than individual mobs? I swear that against 1-2 mobs, my health stays even or even goes up a little, but when there's a whole group, like 5 minions+rare elite, my health goes down pretty fast. It seems to me that if I break even against 1 I should break even against any number. Has anyone else seen that or is it just me?
Without understanding the full context, my guess is that you are probably using AOE skills that hit multiple mobs. For example, if you are using explosive blast and hit 5 monsters (vs. 2), you will be dealing more damage and thus have more damage reflected back.
Would require further exploring if you are using single-target skills though.
I mean for Archon beam. I guess I'm the only one seeing that happen. The only thing that I can think of to explain it is the 600 life per sec regen I have on my gear is putting me over the break even point single target, but when I hit multiple mobs that life regen stays the same, but the damage taken increases becaose of more mobs.
I mean for Archon beam. I guess I'm the only one seeing that happen. The only thing that I can think of to explain it is the 600 life per sec regen I have on my gear is putting me over the break even point single target, but when I hit multiple mobs that life regen stays the same, but the damage taken increases becaose of more mobs.
Since archon beam is AOE, I'm guessing what's happening is because you are doing more damage per second (i.e. from hitting 4-5 minions), more damage is reflected back to you than what your life regen covers. Against smaller mobs (1-2 minions), you're doing less overall damage per second and thus less damage is reflected back.
but still ife you are not losing health or even gaining health when hitting 1 mob with reflect why should it be any different when htiting more than one? something just doesnt add up
side note horde, mortar, reflect, fast demonic tremors CAN GO TO FREAKING HELL SKREW YOU BLIZZARD AND THAT COMBO!
Fast is a little redundant, I think, since they're sped up as rares anyway, but I'm 100% with you on that. Damage Reflect Tremors are just horrible for Archon, same with Phasebeasts. With teleport and illiusionist, I can do decent against them though. I just teleport as soon as I get hit once and blast away, though with damage reflect it requires a lot of creative teleporting around health globes or I'll kill myself.
but still ife you are not losing health or even gaining health when hitting 1 mob with reflect why should it be any different when htiting more than one? something just doesnt add up
Uhm.....because you're doing more damage. I thought this was pretty clear.
If you do 100 damage to 1 mob, you get 100 damage back;
If you do 100 damage to 3 mobs at the same time, you get 100+100+100=300 damage back
(numbers are fictitious)
How is this not clear?
Does RD really reflect 100%? I somehow doubt that, because than it's almost impossible to compensate RD with lifesteal. Usually wizards have around 3% lifesteal, which translates to 0.6% on Inferno. My mitigation is definitely not 99.4%, I have no LoH/lifereg, but I can still dps some RD packs without losing life.
Anyways, his point is valid: if you don't lose life when you hit one mob, it means that your lifesteal/LoH is higher than the incoming reflected damage (after mitigation). And this scales, it doesn't matter if it's one or ten mobs, because lifesteal/LoH scales as well. What changes the equasion though is the amount of damage per hit; smaller hits can be mitigated easier, but big hits will just instagib you when reflected (try Arcane Destruction on RD packs).
but still ife you are not losing health or even gaining health when hitting 1 mob with reflect why should it be any different when htiting more than one? something just doesnt add up
Uhm.....because you're doing more damage. I thought this was pretty clear.
If you do 100 damage to 1 mob, you get 100 damage back;
If you do 100 damage to 3 mobs at the same time, you get 100+100+100=300 damage back
(numbers are fictitious)
How is this not clear?
Does RD really reflect 100%? I somehow doubt that, because than it's almost impossible to compensate RD with lifesteal. Usually wizards have around 3% lifesteal, which translates to 0.6% on Inferno. My mitigation is definitely not 99.4%, I have no LoH/lifereg, but I can still dps some RD packs without losing life.
Anyways, his point is valid: if you don't lose life when you hit one mob, it means that your lifesteal/LoH is higher than the incoming reflected damage (after mitigation). And this scales, it doesn't matter if it's one or ten mobs, because lifesteal/LoH scales as well. What changes the equasion though is the amount of damage per hit; smaller hits can be mitigated easier, but big hits will just instagib you when reflected (try Arcane Destruction on RD packs).
Reflect damage is only a portion of the damage inflicted but Maka's point stands.
Also remember that each spell has different coefficients of return for life steal or life on hit. some get horrible returns (cough blizzard) and some get great returns (DH traps) and most fall in between. This is especially true for AoE spells since they are designed to hit multiple mobs and I still haven't read anywhere what the "ideal" number is for everything to line up.
how is it not clear? would going with your same 100 damage set up wouldn't and you had lifesteal say you gained 101 damage from lifesteal and took 100 damage from reflect wouldnt it be -100 +101 -100 +101 -100 +101 -100 +101 for each mob? instead of it changing to something like -100x4 +101? like for instance without reflect but standing in plague or getting hit by spears or what not and your are attacking many mobs at once your lifesteal ticks can go much much higher than if you hit just 1 mob so why wouldnt it be the same?
Also remember that each spell has different coefficients of return for life steal or life on hit. some get horrible returns (cough blizzard) and some get great returns (DH traps) and most fall in between. This is especially true for AoE spells since they are designed to hit multiple mobs and I still haven't read anywhere what the "ideal" number is for everything to line up.
Life Steal has no coefficient aside from the reduction due to difficulty. If you do 100k damage with Spell A, you gain the same life as if you did 100k damage with Spell B. The only exceptions would be if a spell doesn't work with life steal, which hydra may not.
Also, the reported reflected damage is 10% of your damage done, which is further modified by armor and physical resistance. This means with 90% damage reduction you need 5% life steal to break even against a single target, after accounting for the reduction from Inferno. That sounds about right since I have 91% physical DR in Archon form, with 2.7+1.5 = 4.2% Life Steal plus almost 600 life per second regen and I gain life against 1 reflect damage mob. Expected life gain for 225k dps is 6057 life per second for single target, exected damage taken is 6075 damage per target.
for me its 75% for physical and 64% from armor 2.4+1.5 for lifesteal and 357k/379k depending on which mp i decide to play on... and vs 1 reflect mob i dont notice my health move.
side note horde, mortar, reflect, fast demonic tremors CAN GO TO FREAKING HELL SKREW YOU BLIZZARD AND THAT COMBO!
Fast is a little redundant, I think, since they're sped up as rares anyway, but I'm 100% with you on that. Damage Reflect Tremors are just horrible for Archon, same with Phasebeasts. With teleport and illiusionist, I can do decent against them though. I just teleport as soon as I get hit once and blast away, though with damage reflect it requires a lot of creative teleporting around health globes or I'll kill myself.
Any reflect damage mob with illusionist is fine by me, especially with LoK at or around 2500. Each illusion gives you life so bring them on. It's the extra health/reflect mobs that give me the most trouble.
pretty sure if i used an arcane missile on 1 of them i would get 3 returns of reflect assuming that the ones that did not get hit directly had been in range. i think i am just going to go with i need more all/physical resist and just outgear it.
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Also, is it just me or does damage reflect seem to act a little different on groups than individual mobs? I swear that against 1-2 mobs, my health stays even or even goes up a little, but when there's a whole group, like 5 minions+rare elite, my health goes down pretty fast. It seems to me that if I break even against 1 I should break even against any number. Has anyone else seen that or is it just me?
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Without understanding the full context, my guess is that you are probably using AOE skills that hit multiple mobs. For example, if you are using explosive blast and hit 5 monsters (vs. 2), you will be dealing more damage and thus have more damage reflected back.
Would require further exploring if you are using single-target skills though.
as for aoe spells.... archon beam is my spell of choice..........
RD+Health Link. Bad.
RD+Extra Health. Really bad.
RD+Horde. Stupid bad.
RD+Vampiric. Coma-inducing bad.
Any combinations of RD-Extra Health-Horde-Vampiric will make me curse the RNG gods.
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However, the game calculates Life Steal as if you are just hitting the first one, which means you are getting the full reflect amount but only 1/4 of the life steal. For those people that are basically "break even" on life steal vs reflect mobs, that can be really bad.
side note horde, mortar, reflect, fast demonic tremors CAN GO TO FREAKING HELL SKREW YOU BLIZZARD AND THAT COMBO!
yay loh again......
I mean for Archon beam. I guess I'm the only one seeing that happen. The only thing that I can think of to explain it is the 600 life per sec regen I have on my gear is putting me over the break even point single target, but when I hit multiple mobs that life regen stays the same, but the damage taken increases becaose of more mobs.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Since archon beam is AOE, I'm guessing what's happening is because you are doing more damage per second (i.e. from hitting 4-5 minions), more damage is reflected back to you than what your life regen covers. Against smaller mobs (1-2 minions), you're doing less overall damage per second and thus less damage is reflected back.
Fast is a little redundant, I think, since they're sped up as rares anyway, but I'm 100% with you on that. Damage Reflect Tremors are just horrible for Archon, same with Phasebeasts. With teleport and illiusionist, I can do decent against them though. I just teleport as soon as I get hit once and blast away, though with damage reflect it requires a lot of creative teleporting around health globes or I'll kill myself.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Does RD really reflect 100%? I somehow doubt that, because than it's almost impossible to compensate RD with lifesteal. Usually wizards have around 3% lifesteal, which translates to 0.6% on Inferno. My mitigation is definitely not 99.4%, I have no LoH/lifereg, but I can still dps some RD packs without losing life.
Anyways, his point is valid: if you don't lose life when you hit one mob, it means that your lifesteal/LoH is higher than the incoming reflected damage (after mitigation). And this scales, it doesn't matter if it's one or ten mobs, because lifesteal/LoH scales as well. What changes the equasion though is the amount of damage per hit; smaller hits can be mitigated easier, but big hits will just instagib you when reflected (try Arcane Destruction on RD packs).
Reflect damage is only a portion of the damage inflicted but Maka's point stands.
Also remember that each spell has different coefficients of return for life steal or life on hit. some get horrible returns (cough blizzard) and some get great returns (DH traps) and most fall in between. This is especially true for AoE spells since they are designed to hit multiple mobs and I still haven't read anywhere what the "ideal" number is for everything to line up.
Life Steal has no coefficient aside from the reduction due to difficulty. If you do 100k damage with Spell A, you gain the same life as if you did 100k damage with Spell B. The only exceptions would be if a spell doesn't work with life steal, which hydra may not.
Also, the reported reflected damage is 10% of your damage done, which is further modified by armor and physical resistance. This means with 90% damage reduction you need 5% life steal to break even against a single target, after accounting for the reduction from Inferno. That sounds about right since I have 91% physical DR in Archon form, with 2.7+1.5 = 4.2% Life Steal plus almost 600 life per second regen and I gain life against 1 reflect damage mob. Expected life gain for 225k dps is 6057 life per second for single target, exected damage taken is 6075 damage per target.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard