Seems like the frenzy barb is now viable in 2.3 using the depth digger pants (100%), rorg (used for undisputed champion slot) and the furnace (50% dmg to elites) as kanai passives.
Wearing IK gloves, helm, armor, pants, boots + the undisputed champion to unlock all frenzy runes. Also use focus/restraint. (100%)
Cold build using ice blink, azurewrath, utars, + simplicity strength and taeguk
I've not tried this out yet, what are your thoughts?
LOL, no theres no viable Frenzy build, just with Vanguard rune (now nerfed in last patch) for more %MS
Frenzy is unusable because Blizzard has made a game where you cannot stand still in one spot and deal damage as a melee character, YOU MUST BE MOVING AROUND ALWAYS ESPECIALLY AT HIGH GRs TO STAY ALIVE!!!!! Even with the Waste set that gives a very very high respectable 40% total damage reduction across the board when WWing....and in WW you are able to dodge hit boxes and move through mobs, imagine trying to stand still clipping mobs and no 40% DR.......
So there's no viable competitive Frenzy build, just more trash added in the patch to make the D3 populace think it won't be cookie cutter next patch but it alway is
Theres always Maras kaleidoscope and a healthy layer of RNG to save the day tho in Diablo - just get the Maras and fish fish fish RNG for the Poison blob man, fun times
Otherwise, Blizzard will never let you sit in one spot as a melee character, too easy, too bottable (even more than the game is already ruined by bots)
LOL, no theres no viable Frenzy build, just with Vanguard rune (now nerfed in last patch) for more %MS
Frenzy is unusable because Blizzard has made a game where you cannot stand still in one spot and deal damage as a melee character, YOU MUST BE MOVING AROUND ALWAYS ESPECIALLY AT HIGH GRs TO STAY ALIVE!!!!! Even with the Waste set that gives a very very high respectable 40% total damage reduction across the board when WWing....and in WW you are able to dodge hit boxes and move through mobs, imagine trying to stand still clipping mobs and no 40% DR.......
So there's no viable competitive Frenzy build, just more trash added in the patch to make the D3 populace think it won't be cookie cutter next patch but it alway is
I'm not sure how you come to your conclusions without much proof. There are drastic damage reductions in mobs in greater rifts; this will inevitably have an effect on alternative play styles, especially with permanent CC being neutered. While I don't think he has the optimal set up for it, I think it's silly to say at this point what is optimal and what isn't. I also don't know how you figured he meant "stand still"? Who is to say that the next Barbarian set does not have some frenzy/bash/cleave/non-WW related strengths. They're already adding something in that affects cleave.
The real reason why wastes is good is because you can damage and move at the same time without any delay; it is good damage and excellent speed. It is not about dodging hit boxes because you will not be tanking the higher tier greater rifts you're talking about unless you're perfectly geared...and even then it isn't something you can take a bunch of hits in.
There is a lot more depth and complexity to what was added this patch than possibly the entire expansion so far. Really, you need to open up your eyes and think, rather than be "that guy".
P.S. Surviving greater rifts is not about constantly moving; it is about correctly positioning yourself when the mobs come in. Speed clearing rifts is about constantly moving. This is a massive and fundamental difference.
The question is about frenzy build being viable, not frenzy build being fun. Anything can be fun , that is subjective. Viable means efficient. So yeah its not viable. It might be fun for some ppl. Thread lock .
You haven't provided a concrete reason as to why it isn't viable. Not a single reason. The OP said "seems viable" he did not say "it was definitely viable". The purpose here is to theorycraft, toss out some ideas, etc, not to stamp your unvalidated opinion on the thread about what you THINK is viable and unviable.
The "thread lock" part made me laugh, you're not a moderator either.
I think with the new HOTA Bracers you could probably make an interesting Frenzy build. I would have to think about it for awhile, but I'm sure it's possible.
Only viable builds i can see coming in foreseeable future are with HOTA and SS, using respective new bracers. All they need to do is change one value in a code for IK set - from 100% to at least 300 (rather 400?). But i guess that would take weeks of internal testing, then ptr crap and whatnot.....
Its so pathetic they accidentally buffed WW set to the sky with something intended to help Ik-oriented build.. ( Bracers of First Men). Now the wrists will get nerfed which will hit HOTA build so hard it will be stuck at GR45 or so.
LOL, no theres no viable Frenzy build, just with Vanguard rune (now nerfed in last patch) for more %MS
Frenzy is unusable because Blizzard has made a game where you cannot stand still in one spot and deal damage as a melee character, YOU MUST BE MOVING AROUND ALWAYS ESPECIALLY AT HIGH GRs TO STAY ALIVE!!!!! Even with the Waste set that gives a very very high respectable 40% total damage reduction across the board when WWing....and in WW you are able to dodge hit boxes and move through mobs, imagine trying to stand still clipping mobs and no 40% DR.......
So there's no viable competitive Frenzy build, just more trash added in the patch to make the D3 populace think it won't be cookie cutter next patch but it alway is
I'm not sure how you come to your conclusions without much proof. There are drastic damage reductions in mobs in greater rifts; this will inevitably have an effect on alternative play styles, especially with permanent CC being neutered. While I don't think he has the optimal set up for it, I think it's silly to say at this point what is optimal and what isn't. I also don't know how you figured he meant "stand still"? Who is to say that the next Barbarian set does not have some frenzy/bash/cleave/non-WW related strengths. They're already adding something in that affects cleave.
The real reason why wastes is good is because you can damage and move at the same time without any delay; it is good damage and excellent speed. It is not about dodging hit boxes because you will not be tanking the higher tier greater rifts you're talking about unless you're perfectly geared...and even then it isn't something you can take a bunch of hits in.
There is a lot more depth and complexity to what was added this patch than possibly the entire expansion so far. Really, you need to open up your eyes and think, rather than be "that guy".
P.S. Surviving greater rifts is not about constantly moving; it is about correctly positioning yourself when the mobs come in. Speed clearing rifts is about constantly moving. This is a massive and fundamental difference.
And in GRs you have to survive and clear at the fastest speed possible, thus you constantly move and need survivability......that's what the leaderboard system is.....
No, the leaders are grouping up large amounts of mobs and killing them. If you're referring to solo leaderboards, then it's about fishing for a rift that doesn't have an unfavourable set of mobs that will ruin your day. That's what the current leaderboard system is.. You'd be crazy to think you could just run into all your highest tiered rifts ww'ing without thought through them. That might be how you do it, but that's not how leaders do it.
No, the leaders are grouping up large amounts of mobs and killing them. If you're referring to solo leaderboards, then it's about fishing for a rift that doesn't have an unfavourable set of mobs that will ruin your day. That's what the current leaderboard system is.. You'd be crazy to think you could just run into all your highest tiered rifts ww'ing without thought through them. That might be how you do it, but that's not how leaders do it.
And this is being changed and theorycrafted every single day.
They are already removing perma CC which harms the ability to properly pull and kill mobs the way the top groups are doing it. They are also dramatically reducing the amount of damage that creatures do in general, which does open up the window for more builds like a frenzy+IK+HOTA build.
We are far to early in PTR to make any real conclusive statements, but at this moment I would say the gap went from around a 50% gap to only a 10-15% gap, and could still close or widen through the PTR process.
No, the leaders are grouping up large amounts of mobs and killing them. If you're referring to solo leaderboards, then it's about fishing for a rift that doesn't have an unfavourable set of mobs that will ruin your day. That's what the current leaderboard system is.. You'd be crazy to think you could just run into all your highest tiered rifts ww'ing without thought through them. That might be how you do it, but that's not how leaders do it.
And this is being changed and theorycrafted every single day.
They are already removing perma CC which harms the ability to properly pull and kill mobs the way the top groups are doing it. They are also dramatically reducing the amount of damage that creatures do in general, which does open up the window for more builds like a frenzy+IK+HOTA build.
We are far to early in PTR to make any real conclusive statements, but at this moment I would say the gap went from around a 50% gap to only a 10-15% gap, and could still close or widen through the PTR process.
I already commented on that, I was responding to his comment about the leaderboards currently. In fact, i mentioned exactly the same things you did before when talking about the potential viability of alternative builds. I also mentioned how it's far too early....
However, dropping permanent CC and drastically reducing monster damage will allow for people to still pull off the grouping and pulling of mobs that they are currently doing now. The mobs just won't be so perfectly placed, which is most likely going to be offset by the 'more accurate reflection of mob kill to rift progression', that they are doing...a second time. It depends on how much damage is incoming in conjunction with how many mobs they are able to handle.
My point was addressing his incorrect notion of how the 'leaderboards' are currently operating, not how they will operate. I definitely do think there is a vast amount of area to improve upon and add to the game with this patch, as i said in this thread "more possibilities added in this patch than the entirety of the new expansion".
No, the leaders are grouping up large amounts of mobs and killing them. If you're referring to solo leaderboards, then it's about fishing for a rift that doesn't have an unfavourable set of mobs that will ruin your day. That's what the current leaderboard system is.. You'd be crazy to think you could just run into all your highest tiered rifts ww'ing without thought through them. That might be how you do it, but that's not how leaders do it.
And this is being changed and theorycrafted every single day.
They are already removing perma CC which harms the ability to properly pull and kill mobs the way the top groups are doing it. They are also dramatically reducing the amount of damage that creatures do in general, which does open up the window for more builds like a frenzy+IK+HOTA build.
We are far to early in PTR to make any real conclusive statements, but at this moment I would say the gap went from around a 50% gap to only a 10-15% gap, and could still close or widen through the PTR process.
I already commented on that, I was responding to his comment about the leaderboards currently. In fact, i mentioned exactly the same things you did before when talking about the potential viability of alternative builds. I also mentioned how it's far too early....
However, dropping permanent CC and drastically reducing monster damage will allow for people to still pull off the grouping and pulling of mobs that they are currently doing now. The mobs just won't be so perfectly placed, which is most likely going to be offset by the 'more accurate reflection of mob kill to rift progression', that they are doing...a second time. It depends on how much damage is incoming in conjunction with how many mobs they are able to handle.
My point was addressing his incorrect notion of how the 'leaderboards' are currently operating, not how they will operate. I definitely do think there is a vast amount of area to improve upon and add to the game with this patch, as i said in this thread "more possibilities added in this patch than the entirety of the new expansion".
I disagree with your second paragraph, because without CC, the Mobs will 1shot 2 of the 4 members as they are built with low toughness to maximize CDR.
I'm not sure how you come to your conclusions without much proof. There are drastic damage reductions in mobs in greater rifts; this will inevitably have an effect on alternative play styles, especially with permanent CC being neutered.
The damage reduction is not that drastic. WW barbs are still using 40% DR from wastes and 50% DR from ignore pain and taking lots of dmg. While it may be a little lower than before at any specific lvl, when you push a few lvls higher from all the extra dps you get in 2.3 then you start taking just as much or more dmg than before. You need lots of toughness/DR to handle the highest levels and you need strong AoE dps but frenzy has neither.
I'm not sure how you come to your conclusions without much proof. There are drastic damage reductions in mobs in greater rifts; this will inevitably have an effect on alternative play styles, especially with permanent CC being neutered.
The damage reduction is not that drastic. WW barbs are still using 40% DR from wastes and 50% DR from ignore pain and taking lots of dmg. While it may be a little lower than before at any specific lvl, when you push a few lvls higher from all the extra dps you get in 2.3 then you start taking just as much or more dmg than before. You need lots of toughness/DR to handle the highest levels and you need strong AoE dps but frenzy has neither.
Straight from the patch notes:
Monster damage in Greater Rifts above tier 25 has been significantly reduced.
As for @Demonmonger; all of those DPS classes you're talking about are getting large buffs to their ability to mitigate damage. The Mage has Archon and a much better revival passive; the Demon Hunter is getting massive LoH as well as new bracers that offer 30-35% damage reduction, etc. All classes are getting some way to handle the unavoidable/high damage nukes from champion packs in the form of skills/passives/items. You will still be able to accomplish something very similar to what we have today; it just won't be as efficient since the mobs can move.
@phuzi0n, the point is lower damage allows other playstyles to climb further. Blizzard says it is a significant reduction, you're saying 'not that drastic'. I don't know what your definition of this is, but for now I am going to respectfully side with Blizzard on this one. Even at 20% less damage, it is massively huge. I'll explain this to you in mathematical terms:
If a mob on Greater Rift XX does 20 million damage a hit on 2.2, at 20%, it now does 16 million. What does that mean? For that Barbarian you're talking about, just on the basis of those 3 damage reducing abilities (I'm assuming 4pc IK, so another 50%) and 80% armour and 80% all resistances, he receives 84,000 damage a hit and after the patch he takes he takes 67,200 damage a hit. 16,800 less damage a hit at the same level of greater rift; that is huge. This is made even more favourable by damage reducing passives, unity/items, allied benefits/damage reduction, etc. Even if we take Blizzard's wording as "significant" to mean 10%, 8,400 damage a hit less is still massive. Since it is a straight across-the-board reduction, this only becomes increasingly better for those taking hits and climbing; not the opposite as you're trying to propose with: "we climb faster so we take more damage because we've reached higher levels of rifts"; I don't think fits here. To add to this, monsters have received some dramatic changes to some affixes as well as some rift guardians. They are reducing damage, increasing the odds of avoiding damage as well as lowering the damage on monsters themselves/fixing bugs associated with this.
I'm sure it will be possible to fix the aoe problem; especially with sidearm and stalgrad, but that is not the problem. The problem is making the use of frenzy to the efficiency level of other comparable builds.
The question is about frenzy build being viable, not frenzy build being fun. Anything can be fun , that is subjective. Viable means efficient. So yeah its not viable. It might be fun for some ppl. Thread lock .
Viable means feasible, not efficient. Did the op ask if frenzy can beat rank 1 world? Or did he ask if it's a viable build?
@Tsesmatas, You couldn't even use the quote system properly. The solo leaderboards and the group leaderboards are completely different. Group play is nothing like solo play. I do play D3 and I have a clue and an understanding of how things work. Also, if something was a flavour of the month, it's usually because it's powerful. There's so much wrong with what you said in so few words that it's questionably worth reading :/
Please stick to reading rather than posting on here, as you clearly haven't read the rules for this forum:
Flaming 1 point - Personal Attacks. Directly attacking a/other member(s) based on their game experience, game-play style, intelligence (including "noob", "nub", and various other spellings), age, sex, post count, sitejoin date, and/or any other factor. This may include explicit cursing and profanity directed at said member(s).
Gems: New Gem, Bane of the Powerful, Simplicities Strength
If you build around that you would have like 95% damage to Elites your Frenzy would do 125% damage and perma WOTB on top of everything else and that's just to start. I think you might be able to make it work.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Seems like the frenzy barb is now viable in 2.3 using the depth digger pants (100%), rorg (used for undisputed champion slot) and the furnace (50% dmg to elites) as kanai passives.
Wearing IK gloves, helm, armor, pants, boots + the undisputed champion to unlock all frenzy runes. Also use focus/restraint. (100%)
Cold build using ice blink, azurewrath, utars, + simplicity strength and taeguk
I've not tried this out yet, what are your thoughts?
LOL, no theres no viable Frenzy build, just with Vanguard rune (now nerfed in last patch) for more %MS
Frenzy is unusable because Blizzard has made a game where you cannot stand still in one spot and deal damage as a melee character, YOU MUST BE MOVING AROUND ALWAYS ESPECIALLY AT HIGH GRs TO STAY ALIVE!!!!! Even with the Waste set that gives a very very high respectable 40% total damage reduction across the board when WWing....and in WW you are able to dodge hit boxes and move through mobs, imagine trying to stand still clipping mobs and no 40% DR.......
So there's no viable competitive Frenzy build, just more trash added in the patch to make the D3 populace think it won't be cookie cutter next patch but it alway is
Theres always Maras kaleidoscope and a healthy layer of RNG to save the day tho in Diablo - just get the Maras and fish fish fish RNG for the Poison blob man, fun times
Otherwise, Blizzard will never let you sit in one spot as a melee character, too easy, too bottable (even more than the game is already ruined by bots)
I'm not sure how you come to your conclusions without much proof. There are drastic damage reductions in mobs in greater rifts; this will inevitably have an effect on alternative play styles, especially with permanent CC being neutered. While I don't think he has the optimal set up for it, I think it's silly to say at this point what is optimal and what isn't. I also don't know how you figured he meant "stand still"? Who is to say that the next Barbarian set does not have some frenzy/bash/cleave/non-WW related strengths. They're already adding something in that affects cleave.
The real reason why wastes is good is because you can damage and move at the same time without any delay; it is good damage and excellent speed. It is not about dodging hit boxes because you will not be tanking the higher tier greater rifts you're talking about unless you're perfectly geared...and even then it isn't something you can take a bunch of hits in.
There is a lot more depth and complexity to what was added this patch than possibly the entire expansion so far. Really, you need to open up your eyes and think, rather than be "that guy".
P.S. Surviving greater rifts is not about constantly moving; it is about correctly positioning yourself when the mobs come in. Speed clearing rifts is about constantly moving. This is a massive and fundamental difference.
omfg a suggested build that won't be able to reach rank #1 world??!!! Should never even try it, just for fun.
You haven't provided a concrete reason as to why it isn't viable. Not a single reason. The OP said "seems viable" he did not say "it was definitely viable". The purpose here is to theorycraft, toss out some ideas, etc, not to stamp your unvalidated opinion on the thread about what you THINK is viable and unviable.
The "thread lock" part made me laugh, you're not a moderator either.
I think with the new HOTA Bracers you could probably make an interesting Frenzy build. I would have to think about it for awhile, but I'm sure it's possible.
Only viable builds i can see coming in foreseeable future are with HOTA and SS, using respective new bracers. All they need to do is change one value in a code for IK set - from 100% to at least 300 (rather 400?). But i guess that would take weeks of internal testing, then ptr crap and whatnot.....
Its so pathetic they accidentally buffed WW set to the sky with something intended to help Ik-oriented build.. ( Bracers of First Men). Now the wrists will get nerfed which will hit HOTA build so hard it will be stuck at GR45 or so.
But IK6 is bugged and doesn't work I've heard? Maybe Frenzy does enough damage with the 6pc working
And in GRs you have to survive and clear at the fastest speed possible, thus you constantly move and need survivability......that's what the leaderboard system is.....
No, the leaders are grouping up large amounts of mobs and killing them. If you're referring to solo leaderboards, then it's about fishing for a rift that doesn't have an unfavourable set of mobs that will ruin your day. That's what the current leaderboard system is.. You'd be crazy to think you could just run into all your highest tiered rifts ww'ing without thought through them. That might be how you do it, but that's not how leaders do it.
And this is being changed and theorycrafted every single day.
They are already removing perma CC which harms the ability to properly pull and kill mobs the way the top groups are doing it. They are also dramatically reducing the amount of damage that creatures do in general, which does open up the window for more builds like a frenzy+IK+HOTA build.
We are far to early in PTR to make any real conclusive statements, but at this moment I would say the gap went from around a 50% gap to only a 10-15% gap, and could still close or widen through the PTR process.
I already commented on that, I was responding to his comment about the leaderboards currently. In fact, i mentioned exactly the same things you did before when talking about the potential viability of alternative builds. I also mentioned how it's far too early....
However, dropping permanent CC and drastically reducing monster damage will allow for people to still pull off the grouping and pulling of mobs that they are currently doing now. The mobs just won't be so perfectly placed, which is most likely going to be offset by the 'more accurate reflection of mob kill to rift progression', that they are doing...a second time. It depends on how much damage is incoming in conjunction with how many mobs they are able to handle.
My point was addressing his incorrect notion of how the 'leaderboards' are currently operating, not how they will operate. I definitely do think there is a vast amount of area to improve upon and add to the game with this patch, as i said in this thread "more possibilities added in this patch than the entirety of the new expansion".
I disagree with your second paragraph, because without CC, the Mobs will 1shot 2 of the 4 members as they are built with low toughness to maximize CDR.
Other than that, I agree with your post.
The damage reduction is not that drastic. WW barbs are still using 40% DR from wastes and 50% DR from ignore pain and taking lots of dmg. While it may be a little lower than before at any specific lvl, when you push a few lvls higher from all the extra dps you get in 2.3 then you start taking just as much or more dmg than before. You need lots of toughness/DR to handle the highest levels and you need strong AoE dps but frenzy has neither.
Straight from the patch notes:
As for @Demonmonger; all of those DPS classes you're talking about are getting large buffs to their ability to mitigate damage. The Mage has Archon and a much better revival passive; the Demon Hunter is getting massive LoH as well as new bracers that offer 30-35% damage reduction, etc. All classes are getting some way to handle the unavoidable/high damage nukes from champion packs in the form of skills/passives/items. You will still be able to accomplish something very similar to what we have today; it just won't be as efficient since the mobs can move.
@phuzi0n, the point is lower damage allows other playstyles to climb further. Blizzard says it is a significant reduction, you're saying 'not that drastic'. I don't know what your definition of this is, but for now I am going to respectfully side with Blizzard on this one. Even at 20% less damage, it is massively huge. I'll explain this to you in mathematical terms:
If a mob on Greater Rift XX does 20 million damage a hit on 2.2, at 20%, it now does 16 million. What does that mean? For that Barbarian you're talking about, just on the basis of those 3 damage reducing abilities (I'm assuming 4pc IK, so another 50%) and 80% armour and 80% all resistances, he receives 84,000 damage a hit and after the patch he takes he takes 67,200 damage a hit. 16,800 less damage a hit at the same level of greater rift; that is huge. This is made even more favourable by damage reducing passives, unity/items, allied benefits/damage reduction, etc. Even if we take Blizzard's wording as "significant" to mean 10%, 8,400 damage a hit less is still massive. Since it is a straight across-the-board reduction, this only becomes increasingly better for those taking hits and climbing; not the opposite as you're trying to propose with: "we climb faster so we take more damage because we've reached higher levels of rifts"; I don't think fits here. To add to this, monsters have received some dramatic changes to some affixes as well as some rift guardians. They are reducing damage, increasing the odds of avoiding damage as well as lowering the damage on monsters themselves/fixing bugs associated with this.
I'm sure it will be possible to fix the aoe problem; especially with sidearm and stalgrad, but that is not the problem. The problem is making the use of frenzy to the efficiency level of other comparable builds.
Viable means feasible, not efficient. Did the op ask if frenzy can beat rank 1 world? Or did he ask if it's a viable build?
@Tsesmatas, You couldn't even use the quote system properly. The solo leaderboards and the group leaderboards are completely different. Group play is nothing like solo play. I do play D3 and I have a clue and an understanding of how things work. Also, if something was a flavour of the month, it's usually because it's powerful. There's so much wrong with what you said in so few words that it's questionably worth reading :/
Please stick to reading rather than posting on here, as you clearly haven't read the rules for this forum:
Flaming
1 point - Personal Attacks. Directly attacking a/other member(s) based on their game experience, game-play style, intelligence (including "noob", "nub", and various other spellings), age, sex, post count, sitejoin date, and/or any other factor. This may include explicit cursing and profanity directed at said member(s).
Grow up, please.
So could do something like this:
Cube= Furnace, SOJ, Depth Diggers
Set: IK
Gems: New Gem, Bane of the Powerful, Simplicities Strength
If you build around that you would have like 95% damage to Elites your Frenzy would do 125% damage and perma WOTB on top of everything else and that's just to start. I think you might be able to make it work.