Full Disclosure: I've never made a successful T6 character but my Wizard and WD are both very capable in T5, solo or group (and not in the hang back and hope not to die way either)
Looking at some of the datamined info coming out of the PTR I can see how a character which is already T6 capable becoming VERY capable of facerolling T6 - some of the legendary affixes are amazing and having a 5th passive would really incredible (thoughts on what these do to set items is another matter)
I can't help but wonder if T7-T10 are eventual outcomes or if these potential additions to gear/skills are simply what it will take to progress very far in Greater Rifts. I suppose it ammounts to the same thing really but I can see people wanting a bit more challenge out of normal rifts or even (shudder) bountry running/adventure mode.
Im pretty sure to most people its quite obvious they will eventually add more difficult t levels. I think the real question is how will they rebalance the rewards because their curve would skyrocket
There was a pretty good discussion on reddit today about how the scaling of monsters, particularly in T5/6, is actually what kills build diversity. From that perspective, I'd really not like to see further difficulties added. People who want ePeen should be trying to get further in Greater Rifts. What Torment you run on is no longer the measuring stick for dick size.
But your arguement results the same way. Some builds will do better where some will be more fun. Its still going to be 99% the same builds breaking records in greater rifts
Difficulty increases are not the issue is what im saying to your arguement. The issye is a lack of build changing gear. I see seasons fixing that as more and more legs are added. More gear equals more diversity equals more builds doing more dmg
But your arguement results the same way. Some builds will do better where some will be more fun. Its still going to be 99% the same builds breaking records in greater rifts
I fail to see how that statement of the obvious (there will always be some kind of "best" for competitive things) in any way necessitates higher torments especially given that Greater Rifts provide infinite amounts of difficulty.
Or maybe seasons are going to be 2 month long. Starting from 0 is a lot different then at the start of RoS where people already had tons of good items/paragon lvls. In 2 months probably less than 1% of the players would have reached t6 and GR 30+.
Blizzard is clearly going the season way, which mean they dont really care if youre hardcore pwning t6 outside of seasons.
There was a pretty good discussion on reddit today about how the scaling of monsters, particularly in T5/6, is actually what kills build diversity. From that perspective, I'd really not like to see further difficulties added. People who want ePeen should be trying to get further in Greater Rifts. What Torment you run on is no longer the measuring stick for dick size.
I think that's exactly right. That's part of the appeal to 2.0's difficulty setup. You can run fun or less than perfectly optimal builds and still run in Torment I and have access to pretty much everything. For those who want to run The One True Build and faceroll T6, there's Greater Rifts. Great improvement over Vanilla, where if you wanted level 62 drops, you had to be able to survive in Inferno, which limited build diversity a lot.
There was a pretty good discussion on reddit today about how the scaling of monsters, particularly in T5/6, is actually what kills build diversity. From that perspective, I'd really not like to see further difficulties added. People who want ePeen should be trying to get further in Greater Rifts. What Torment you run on is no longer the measuring stick for dick size.
The arguement still isnt valid as youre missing the point. The point I am making is there should not be one best build. There should be multiple ways to play in every t level. Which is where more items and build changers come in. And once they have more builds rolling t6, they should add new t levels. Not expect everyone to just do greater rifts.
The arguement still isnt valid as youre missing the point. The point I am making is there should not be one best build. There should be multiple ways to play in every t level. Which is where more items and build changers come in. And once they have more builds rolling t6, they should add new t levels. Not expect everyone to just do greater rifts.
This is a flawed view. there will always be a "one best build". Absolute balance where there are dozens, or even 2 builds per class that are equal is nearly mathmatically impossible to achieve. The higher the difficulty goes be it in new torment levels, or higher GR levels, optimizations will eventually be found, and without X gear and X build, you'll reach a point that can't be done. each build will have a different limit. They may have some that are close, but there WILL be a best.
higher T levels really aren't needed since there are greater rifts anyways.If they did make higher T levels, they should really make them unlimited like greater rifts.
The moment they put in a max level, a majority of players are going to want to play at the max level. As a result the max level will get watered down to a point where it's like T6 is now. Or like how people literally played MP10 mashing 1-2 buttons.
Im not saying there wont be a best build of course there is. But when there is only 1 or 2 really great builds per class and the rest cant do t5, some cant even do t4, blizz should be absolutely concerned. I guarentee you the class mods are going into meetings trying to think up new items to make other builds competitive. If I could use a blessed shield build in t6 I would because I love the style but as it is the only way I can pass t5 is with darklight or holy shotgun. Id love for phalanx builds shield builds falling sword builds etc to be t6 competitive.
Im not saying there wont be a best build of course there is. But when there is only 1 or 2 really great builds per class and the rest cant do t5, some cant even do t4, blizz should be absolutely concerned.
That was the whole point of the discussion on Reddit, though. The higher you scale up the damage the fewer builds that are going to be viable just by nature of the game. Adding more Torments wouldn't help build diversity, it would just force Blizzard to work even harder and sink even more hours into class balance instead of devoting more hours to better pursuits that result in more enjoyment from the playerbase.
If T5/6 didn't exist, imagine just how diverse builds would be. The number of builds that can successfully farm T4 is significantly higher than the number of builds that can farm T5/6. Why do you think so many builds in D2 could farm Hell, but so few could solo the Uber Tristram event? It's the same general idea. It's the same thing with WoW. Even a 2% DPS difference between, say a Frost and an Unholy DK, would be enough to make most cutting-edge raiders pick the higher one. Whereas if you're just doing your own thing with LFR, it probably doesn't matter if everyone is even optimally-geared, let alone trying to get 2% more DPS from your spec.
The higher the difficulty, the lower the room for fucking up, and the more min/maxing that has to be done to clear the content. We *will* see this with Greater Rifts. Because of that there is absolutely no need to continue to let it play out in bounties and normal rifts.
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Looking at some of the datamined info coming out of the PTR I can see how a character which is already T6 capable becoming VERY capable of facerolling T6 - some of the legendary affixes are amazing and having a 5th passive would really incredible (thoughts on what these do to set items is another matter)
I can't help but wonder if T7-T10 are eventual outcomes or if these potential additions to gear/skills are simply what it will take to progress very far in Greater Rifts. I suppose it ammounts to the same thing really but I can see people wanting a bit more challenge out of normal rifts or even (shudder) bountry running/adventure mode.
in tiered rifts there are infinite difficulty levels.
mmonotony is rarely fun
Or maybe seasons are going to be 2 month long. Starting from 0 is a lot different then at the start of RoS where people already had tons of good items/paragon lvls. In 2 months probably less than 1% of the players would have reached t6 and GR 30+.
Blizzard is clearly going the season way, which mean they dont really care if youre hardcore pwning t6 outside of seasons.
The moment they put in a max level, a majority of players are going to want to play at the max level. As a result the max level will get watered down to a point where it's like T6 is now. Or like how people literally played MP10 mashing 1-2 buttons.
If T5/6 didn't exist, imagine just how diverse builds would be. The number of builds that can successfully farm T4 is significantly higher than the number of builds that can farm T5/6. Why do you think so many builds in D2 could farm Hell, but so few could solo the Uber Tristram event? It's the same general idea. It's the same thing with WoW. Even a 2% DPS difference between, say a Frost and an Unholy DK, would be enough to make most cutting-edge raiders pick the higher one. Whereas if you're just doing your own thing with LFR, it probably doesn't matter if everyone is even optimally-geared, let alone trying to get 2% more DPS from your spec.
The higher the difficulty, the lower the room for fucking up, and the more min/maxing that has to be done to clear the content. We *will* see this with Greater Rifts. Because of that there is absolutely no need to continue to let it play out in bounties and normal rifts.