I realize the simple answer is bots but I see people quite often with a massive inventory of Legendary's, 42 Echos, 16 Mempos ect but I don't even understand how obtaining these EVEN with botting is obtainable.
Seven Hundred hours in, and this is being generous due to I want to average out the time I've been level 100, I actually have 1100 hours played and I've found an exact total of 1 Mempo and 5 Echoing fury's EVER.
It is mind boggling to think that this other guy, just finds that many more legendarys then I do! Its not just one or two people like I said, its all the time that I see these people with all of these legendarys that they're selling unid.
I got a Paragon lvl 36 Wizard, never really "farmed" the game the way people do. I almost always played Public Games (despite not being efficient back then), and I always farmed all 4 Acts, even though I knew Act 3 was the best.
I have found at least 3-4 Echoing Furies. People who are consistently farming at Paragon 100 (or max Magic Find), being as efficient as humanly possible and having 400k~ dps can definitely get a lot more.
I really doubt you have farmed 700 hours at Paragon 100 and didn't get many repeated Legendaries. Are you farming at low Monster Powers? The higher chance to have an item drop (for higher MPs) can definitely improve your chances at a Legendary from what I've heard.
I'm about 1,000 hours on my wizard, and a combined 300 or so hours on the other classes.
I've found two Mempos and two Witching Hours. One Ice Climbers, one Zunimassa's Marrow, one Inna's Vast Expanse, one Tal Rasha's Allegiance.
I've never, ever found a Zunimassa's Pox, Ouroboros, Immortal King's Irons.
People buy in bulk. Constantly. At one point I bought a couple dozen Echoing Furies and Lacuni Prowlers. I spent several hundred millions worth of gold, but I profited about 200-300M after selling off the well-rolled ones. I could have re-invested the gold and repeated the same thing over and over.
There are players who do this on a full-time basis, just like there are players who camp the AH and RMAH day in and day out, or those who camp d2jsp and trade forums for good deals.
Oftentimes, when you buy unID in bulk, you can get a discount. Sometimes, those who get discounts via buying bulk will resell individual unIDs for market value. This is much like real life auctions that feature "bulk lots." Tons of potential profits can be made by reselling individual items within a lot and there are many people in real life who have side jobs dedicated specifically to buying item lots.
Then you probably have owners of bots pumping out their unID loot over and over. They all come from somewhere, but by no means will the average player accumulate 60 Manticores in their playtime. You buy them, hoard them, then either resell or gamble on the ID.
Is it really that much about "bots"? Any evidence for that? (Read: evidence...)
If a level 63 helm drops, you can leave it unidentified and sell it for about 70m nowadays on D2JSP. If you ID it and it doesn't roll crit, you just blew 69m. I can understand that... just found a WH a couple of minutes ago, ID'ed, 8/40/11allres/poison res. Basically worthless. Could've gotten quite a lot as an unid sell... so it's not that unreasonable that there are quite a few legit unid items are floating around.
People buy unids's all the time...?? I'm only seeing people sell Echoing Fury unid for 10-14m. I don't know what Mempos are going for but last I checked it was around 60m unid. Still for people with billions of gold that is chump change and essentially the rich keep getting richer.
I too have only found maybe 4 EF and have never found a mempo. Hard to say botting is the cause because botting doesn't really increase your chance of getting a mempo or echoing fury.
I never stated that I've never found repeat legendaries in my 700 hours but I can recall most of the highlights of my drops cause that moment of "Holy shit, that just dropped" is memorable.
1x Mempo
2x Nats ring
2x Innas Pants
3x Innas helm
5x Echos
1x Nats boots
2x IK Gloves
1x IK Chest
I could keep listing but I'm sure I'd miss something anyway, I should say that I still find 3 legendaries an hour but Its almost always The Tormenter, Frostburn Gauntlets, Gladiators Gauntlets, Tzo Krin's Gaze, Mad Stone, Two handed mace, two handed sword, Sunkeeper, Inna's Favor, Fire Walkers and all of the other shitty things that I can't think of off the top of my head. Its incredible how many of the legendaries that actually can't be good, that I find.
Now I'm just whining, I'm sorry. I created this thread mostly cause I feel as if I'm doing something wrong, I play on MP10 and I'm P100, most people are like, It rainnnnssss legendaries! Sure, the ones that can't be good.
I think were talking about ppl multiboxing and controlling hundreds of bots. U see streamers buying from the same trader close to a thousand echoing furies every week.
Its professional farming from the gold seller websites..
If a level 63 helm drops, you can leave it unidentified and sell it for about 70m nowadays on D2JSP. If you ID it and it doesn't roll crit, you just blew 69m.
i got like 1600 hours combined and got:
2memphos
5-6 EF
3IK chests
3zuni pox (1 trifecta)
+-10 ice climbers
Suppose, you owe me some boots! My Fire Walkers - Ice Climbers ratio is about 50:0 (not exactly sure of the first number)
I found several Mempos, that I remember, but I think, most of them were when they were bugged and rolled without a main stat. I think, it's reasonable to find most of the items once, not all of them for statistical reasons, several multiple times for the same reasons.
Common sense tells us that there are many bots out there farming stuff. Someone with 50 bots could obtain an inventory of Mempos in less than a week, I think. But there is no evidence, which items have been found legitimately and which were gathered by bots. Therefore people who buy them don't know, if they're buying legal stuff or not. They could make an educated guess when buying in bulk, but I don't demand that they care, if they don't buy them, someone else will.
supply and demand
people who have large amounts of unid are buyers and have suppliers. i have a personal unid buyer/sell friend who told me how it works and it's pretty simple too. funny how he doesn't even play and just sits and wait, earn gold, cash out 90%, buy gold with 10%, repeat
while me, farming my life away 24/7, has yielded disastrous results. even though i amassed supposed 'good ones' i just don't have the heart or will anymore to id them so i give them away via contests that i hold from time to time in the wizard forum (US forum).
you do find a lot legendaries with high mf/paragon level on high mps. that combined with the group buff to mf, the tendency to farm very high monster powers and the now cheap items necessary to farm them lead to more legendary drops.
But those legendaries are worth less and less with mediocre stats, so the unid prices rise and it becomes more appealing to the average player to sell unid legendaries.
so of course parts of those unid bulks come from "legit" players but the majority of it doesnt. it's naive to assume, that bots aren't involved.
i have to disagree with the "you do find a lot legendaries with high mf/paragon level on high mps."
you do find a lot legendaries with high mf/paragon level on high mps. that combined with the group buff to mf, the tendency to farm very high monster powers and the now cheap items necessary to farm them lead to more legendary drops.
But those legendaries are worth less and less with mediocre stats, so the unid prices rise and it becomes more appealing to the average player to sell unid legendaries.
so of course parts of those unid bulks come from "legit" players but the majority of it doesnt. it's naive to assume, that bots aren't involved.
i have to disagree with the "you do find a lot legendaries with high mf/paragon level on high mps."
No, he's right. I played a lot last week, when I was sick and the amount of legendaries was immense at plvl90+ in MP7 Fields of Misery. It's just that most of them are Spirit Stones, Wizard Hats and Hand Crossbows. Not to forget Gloves ofc..
I always wondered, can players have lots of UNID legendaries, copy their account over to PTR, ID them all to see which ones are the good ones, then sell the bad ones?
That's pretty much made me not want to ever buy UNID legendaries.
I always wondered, can players have lots of UNID legendaries, copy their account over to PTR, ID them all to see which ones are the good ones, then sell the bad ones?
That was fixed with 1.07 - unidentified items won't be copied over to the PTR anymore.
I don't see how this is even up to question. It is hands down wothout a doubt botting. Not saying the individual adveryising on the forums selling the Unids is the botter, but the items are coming from botters. A self fpund player would have the time to broker thier own items. All the Unid sellers on battle.net and other forums have new stock daily. There is no explanation for a player having a new supply of 30x mempos, 60x manticores, 30 lacunis, 30 Efs etc at the start of ever day. Yet this happens.
If you would just go on the demonbuddy forums, demonbuddy is the main botting program, you can see botters statistics fod using certain profiles, routes, plugins. In a1 mp10 running high densoty areas with a good barb profile its possible to average nearly two i63 legendaries an hour. This is refered to as LPH (legendaries per hour), usually running profiles that drop 1400+ items per hour. Either demonbuddy or a plugin keeps analytics of their runs broken down by item level, and color.. This is all available publically if you just browse their forums.
So do the math. 2 i63 LPH x 24 hours x7 days = 336 i63 legendaries a week for one account.now realize its very common for a personal use botter to run 6 bots. 2016 i63 legendaries a week. Actual farming operations will run 40-100 accounts.
See how crazy this gets? These mass Unid items are just a result of gold prices diving into the ground. It is the only way to be profitable botting now.
Botters only care about gold. Rng is terrible, gold is money, money is king. To seriously think these items are coming from anywhere else is crazy talk.
Yeah, your math is interesting... but if you actually READ the Demonbuddy forums you'd find out that no one runs their bots 24/7 as this increases the probability of getting banned to almost 100%, and almost everyone who's running 3+ bots has experienced a ban of at least one of them recently (it's easier to focus on "bot-like behavior" coming from the same IP).
Maybe *some* items are coming from botters, but I really can't stand this "90% of players are bots" attitude unless someone provides evidence. We have a lot of players on these forums with 1000+ hours played and a lot of elite kills, who knows, maybe they're bots as well? Unless you have evidence for the claim that all unid's come from botters (and some random math is not evidence, I could just construct some faked counter-evidence by turning math against you) I'd say we're all "crazy talking".
There are just too many unid legendaries for it to not be largly from botters. I'm not saying all players are botters, I'm saying it is undeniable that large mass quantities of legendaries are coming from botters. Just 100 effective p100 bots 24/7 would be enough to flood the forums.There are plenty of players with 1000 hours of game time, sure, but the quantity these items are selling at is insane. 1 p100 24/7 will find more items in a week than an actual player will find in their entire game experience.
I've purchased unid off sellers on battle.net, guess what? From the ~10 different vendors a mule was used each time for the transaction. Starts to get pretty obvious.
There are plenty of botters who run partial days like you said. They all eventually get banned no matter what the hours. If you would look around there are many posts on that forum from a lot of accounts saying they bot 24/7, some have 40+ accounts live for over 6 months, some bot 4hrs a day and only last 3 days. Its pure luck and mimicing human behavior gaurentees them nothing.
I pulled those numbers from reports of running bots. Ignore them if you'd like, but it is undeniable a large portion of the unid item market is coming from bots. They have a plugin that picks out and stops your legendaries from being identified and stores them to be sold in mass quantities.
Yeah, your math is interesting... but if you actually READ the Demonbuddy forums you'd find out that no one runs their bots 24/7 as this increases the probability of getting banned to almost 100%, and almost everyone who's running 3+ bots has experienced a ban of at least one of them recently (it's easier to focus on "bot-like behavior" coming from the same IP).
Pretty much this. Specially the underlined text.
People really think Blizzard isn't doing anything against botters but if you skim through their forums once a week you will definitely see botters being banned constantly, and some are even losing money (from investing 60 dollars and not getting back much).
Anyways. if you know how bots work you'd pretty much know that there's absolutely no failsafe way nowadays to detect these.
They have actions so similar to human beings (they even make "twitch"-like actions every now and then, randomly opening the inventory, randomly crafting stuff, randomly stopping for a few seconds/minutes) that it's nigh impossible to create a detecting script without doing friendly fire (to the players).
Maybe *some* items are coming from botters, but I really can't stand this "90% of players are bots" attitude unless someone provides evidence.
^ completely agreed.
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Seven Hundred hours in, and this is being generous due to I want to average out the time I've been level 100, I actually have 1100 hours played and I've found an exact total of 1 Mempo and 5 Echoing fury's EVER.
It is mind boggling to think that this other guy, just finds that many more legendarys then I do! Its not just one or two people like I said, its all the time that I see these people with all of these legendarys that they're selling unid.
There just has to be something that I'm missing.
I have found at least 3-4 Echoing Furies. People who are consistently farming at Paragon 100 (or max Magic Find), being as efficient as humanly possible and having 400k~ dps can definitely get a lot more.
I really doubt you have farmed 700 hours at Paragon 100 and didn't get many repeated Legendaries. Are you farming at low Monster Powers? The higher chance to have an item drop (for higher MPs) can definitely improve your chances at a Legendary from what I've heard.
I've found two Mempos and two Witching Hours. One Ice Climbers, one Zunimassa's Marrow, one Inna's Vast Expanse, one Tal Rasha's Allegiance.
I've never, ever found a Zunimassa's Pox, Ouroboros, Immortal King's Irons.
People buy in bulk. Constantly. At one point I bought a couple dozen Echoing Furies and Lacuni Prowlers. I spent several hundred millions worth of gold, but I profited about 200-300M after selling off the well-rolled ones. I could have re-invested the gold and repeated the same thing over and over.
There are players who do this on a full-time basis, just like there are players who camp the AH and RMAH day in and day out, or those who camp d2jsp and trade forums for good deals.
Oftentimes, when you buy unID in bulk, you can get a discount. Sometimes, those who get discounts via buying bulk will resell individual unIDs for market value. This is much like real life auctions that feature "bulk lots." Tons of potential profits can be made by reselling individual items within a lot and there are many people in real life who have side jobs dedicated specifically to buying item lots.
Then you probably have owners of bots pumping out their unID loot over and over. They all come from somewhere, but by no means will the average player accumulate 60 Manticores in their playtime. You buy them, hoard them, then either resell or gamble on the ID.
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If a level 63 helm drops, you can leave it unidentified and sell it for about 70m nowadays on D2JSP. If you ID it and it doesn't roll crit, you just blew 69m. I can understand that... just found a WH a couple of minutes ago, ID'ed, 8/40/11allres/poison res. Basically worthless. Could've gotten quite a lot as an unid sell... so it's not that unreasonable that there are quite a few legit unid items are floating around.
I too have only found maybe 4 EF and have never found a mempo. Hard to say botting is the cause because botting doesn't really increase your chance of getting a mempo or echoing fury.
to the OP, it's not bots....it's aliens.
I never stated that I've never found repeat legendaries in my 700 hours but I can recall most of the highlights of my drops cause that moment of "Holy shit, that just dropped" is memorable.
1x Mempo
2x Nats ring
2x Innas Pants
3x Innas helm
5x Echos
1x Nats boots
2x IK Gloves
1x IK Chest
I could keep listing but I'm sure I'd miss something anyway, I should say that I still find 3 legendaries an hour but Its almost always The Tormenter, Frostburn Gauntlets, Gladiators Gauntlets, Tzo Krin's Gaze, Mad Stone, Two handed mace, two handed sword, Sunkeeper, Inna's Favor, Fire Walkers and all of the other shitty things that I can't think of off the top of my head. Its incredible how many of the legendaries that actually can't be good, that I find.
Now I'm just whining, I'm sorry. I created this thread mostly cause I feel as if I'm doing something wrong, I play on MP10 and I'm P100, most people are like, It rainnnnssss legendaries! Sure, the ones that can't be good.
Its professional farming from the gold seller websites..
That much? What are the odds of rolling crit?
Suppose, you owe me some boots! My Fire Walkers - Ice Climbers ratio is about 50:0 (not exactly sure of the first number)
I found several Mempos, that I remember, but I think, most of them were when they were bugged and rolled without a main stat. I think, it's reasonable to find most of the items once, not all of them for statistical reasons, several multiple times for the same reasons.
Common sense tells us that there are many bots out there farming stuff. Someone with 50 bots could obtain an inventory of Mempos in less than a week, I think. But there is no evidence, which items have been found legitimately and which were gathered by bots. Therefore people who buy them don't know, if they're buying legal stuff or not. They could make an educated guess when buying in bulk, but I don't demand that they care, if they don't buy them, someone else will.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
people who have large amounts of unid are buyers and have suppliers. i have a personal unid buyer/sell friend who told me how it works and it's pretty simple too. funny how he doesn't even play and just sits and wait, earn gold, cash out 90%, buy gold with 10%, repeat
while me, farming my life away 24/7, has yielded disastrous results. even though i amassed supposed 'good ones' i just don't have the heart or will anymore to id them so i give them away via contests that i hold from time to time in the wizard forum (US forum).
i have to disagree with the "you do find a lot legendaries with high mf/paragon level on high mps."
No, he's right. I played a lot last week, when I was sick and the amount of legendaries was immense at plvl90+ in MP7 Fields of Misery. It's just that most of them are Spirit Stones, Wizard Hats and Hand Crossbows. Not to forget Gloves ofc..
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
That's pretty much made me not want to ever buy UNID legendaries.
That was fixed with 1.07 - unidentified items won't be copied over to the PTR anymore.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7592800873?page=7#130
If you would just go on the demonbuddy forums, demonbuddy is the main botting program, you can see botters statistics fod using certain profiles, routes, plugins. In a1 mp10 running high densoty areas with a good barb profile its possible to average nearly two i63 legendaries an hour. This is refered to as LPH (legendaries per hour), usually running profiles that drop 1400+ items per hour. Either demonbuddy or a plugin keeps analytics of their runs broken down by item level, and color.. This is all available publically if you just browse their forums.
So do the math. 2 i63 LPH x 24 hours x7 days = 336 i63 legendaries a week for one account.now realize its very common for a personal use botter to run 6 bots. 2016 i63 legendaries a week. Actual farming operations will run 40-100 accounts.
See how crazy this gets? These mass Unid items are just a result of gold prices diving into the ground. It is the only way to be profitable botting now.
Botters only care about gold. Rng is terrible, gold is money, money is king. To seriously think these items are coming from anywhere else is crazy talk.
Maybe *some* items are coming from botters, but I really can't stand this "90% of players are bots" attitude unless someone provides evidence. We have a lot of players on these forums with 1000+ hours played and a lot of elite kills, who knows, maybe they're bots as well? Unless you have evidence for the claim that all unid's come from botters (and some random math is not evidence, I could just construct some faked counter-evidence by turning math against you) I'd say we're all "crazy talking".
I've purchased unid off sellers on battle.net, guess what? From the ~10 different vendors a mule was used each time for the transaction. Starts to get pretty obvious.
There are plenty of botters who run partial days like you said. They all eventually get banned no matter what the hours. If you would look around there are many posts on that forum from a lot of accounts saying they bot 24/7, some have 40+ accounts live for over 6 months, some bot 4hrs a day and only last 3 days. Its pure luck and mimicing human behavior gaurentees them nothing.
I pulled those numbers from reports of running bots. Ignore them if you'd like, but it is undeniable a large portion of the unid item market is coming from bots. They have a plugin that picks out and stops your legendaries from being identified and stores them to be sold in mass quantities.
People really think Blizzard isn't doing anything against botters but if you skim through their forums once a week you will definitely see botters being banned constantly, and some are even losing money (from investing 60 dollars and not getting back much).
Anyways. if you know how bots work you'd pretty much know that there's absolutely no failsafe way nowadays to detect these.
They have actions so similar to human beings (they even make "twitch"-like actions every now and then, randomly opening the inventory, randomly crafting stuff, randomly stopping for a few seconds/minutes) that it's nigh impossible to create a detecting script without doing friendly fire (to the players).
^ completely agreed.