In Diablo 2, there were methods on leveling up 'quick'. Like from 1-15 it was Tristram runs, 15-20/24 Tomb runs, or an alternative 20-24 Cow runs. Then it was Baal runs from 25-40, then from then on it was baal runs, or chaos runs at level 60-75/80. Then Hell baal runs and Chaos to 99. I will admit it's useful and time preserving when you just want to level the character up so you can equip all of your "godly" gear. But sometimes that gets a bit repetetive. How many people actually play through the game? When I got my in real life friend started on Diablo 2, I played through all of the acts with him, 1-5. Even gathering the khalims flail items to get passed act 3. Took us several hours to just get to act 3. But I realized how playing the game was actually fun, and I feel like Diablo 2 is a blow off for that.
Diablo 2 is, and forever will be my favorite game. There are flaws like that though. I am hoping in Diablo 3 there wont really be any quick and easy ways to level, or glitches like "G uber" where you can glitch rush a level 1 to hell, and use Uber Tristram to get from level 1-80 in an hour. That's just a complete blow off. I don't even think glitch rushing should be there. I want the best way to level up in Diablo 3 to be actually playing the game. To progress with a few friends, and just enjoy the story line. Not where it gets to the point where the acts are just something to get through to get to the best way to level. Of course there are going to be monsters/places where the experience is better than somewhere else, but there should be a fine balance on it.
I also wouldn't mind more quests. And not just the same ones, but ones that go with the Character Class you are. Different Lore for different character. For Diablo 2 it was all the same. I noticed in Diablo 3 the opening scenes for Sorceress, and some cinematics for the Monk, it seems like they are making the classes different Lore, a bit different paths bit still the same destination. I hope that is what it means, anyways. But it'd be nice to see different quests. And give more depth into a specific class, letting you get to actually feel with them more. With more and new interesting quests, and differing with each class, it's sure to have people actually playing through the game, that's my thought anyways.
What do you all think?
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
Randomly generated? I forgot about that. That will add a lot of flavor to the game. Thing is, I don't want it to be like WoW though, where there's so many quests it takes forever to complete them. Unless they are little side quests, that wouldn't take more than maybe 20-30 minutes to do, at the most. And yeah, I like the fact NPC's will react differently to each class.
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
Yeah I agree. There defiantly needs to be more variety with Diablo 3. They are working on character customization, but NPC are just as important. Without a good story line and/or NPC interaction, you're just left with a game like Two Moons.
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
all i hope for is that you dont lvl as fast as in d2 but it dont take as long as wow
Never really played WoW, but I heard leveling is very slow. Diablo 2 leveling is way too fast. The only time it really feels like you're not moving much is 90+ and still the only way to really level is Baal runs.
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
Didn't know what else to compare it too, I'm haven't really been playing many games lately. And yes the leveling progresses normally, if you stay away from rushes and all of that. But that's the thing, if it's there who's really going to skip it? The idea is to make it more intriguing to actually play rather than play just to level up and get the best items. A game should have just as much plot as it does playability. Not many people I know really listen to the long dialogue of the NPCs, they skip it, look at their quest log and go. or just get rushed all together. Cinematics are only a one time thing, they should be interesting enough to watch again and again.
Also I wasn't comparing experience rates with Two Moons, I was comparing lack of a plot. And it really wasn't comparing, it was saying without a plot that's what it be, and I'm contradicting myself so I'm shutting up
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
I want the best way to level up in Diablo 3 to be actually playing the game.
Yeh :~)
Imo the experience rating of bosses and ordinary monsters should decrease. However you should get experience whenever you complete a main quest. This way the best way of leveling would proceed instead of farming a high exp area.
Well, thats why I never followed the crowd. Just played my way with friends, away from runs. A lot of people think thats what the game is about. It seriously isn't. If you live D2 by doing runs, you are not playing the same game I am. It -is- annoying though, since its a widely used method of playing, just because its efficient.
Sick of people that forget its called a game, and sick of them making the majority of the gamers. Sad. Hopefully, D3's most efficient way to level up will be more fun, yes.
I agree Emil. Those can be solutions, there are others, too.
People are greedy, that's much too true. I am not the best person in the world, I like having good items too, and I like competing, but there's a line between obsessing and enjoying yourself. Many Diablo 2 players have a different sense of enjoyment. I personally don't like PvP, unless it's with a friend and it's good fun. A lot of PvPers are just bad mouthing people who take your gold every chance they get, and run their mouth too. Not all of them, but a good portion. And being on Diablo 2 for the last few hours has brought me to another thought. I do hope they have better control over 3rd party software. Most specifically bots. Spam/Buy bots are the most annoying thing ever, and it's sad when you have to push "N" to clear messages every 30 seconds, if not less in a public game.
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
exactly i couldn't agree more either i think they are going to make it where you start at different places and different backgrounds and different quests and about quests i think they are making it where you do gain EXP. from them FINALLY!
Haha, yes 'finally'. I have high hopes in Diablo 3. From updates I have differentiating feelings about it, but I still am hoping it will be the best of the three so far. And if it's to be the last Diablo, let it be with a bang
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
I really like that idea. Yes, team work is what Diablo 3 should be about. Single Player is nice, but not so many people play that. Multi Player Diablo is what got me started in online gaming, it was one of the best Multi-player games of it's time. And stated awhile back in one of the gaming demos of Diablo 3, they are working on team work and co-op a lot. Experience gains should also revolve around Team work, because not many people actually do "team" work. It's mostly individual, that's all it's about. Anyways ending random ramble. I really do make myself sound stupid at times ;P
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
i really think playing diablo 2 in single player with players 8, an almost perfect leveling.
just makes sure that all skills/builds are somewhat efficient as you go up on your level.
everybody knows that if you don't spend your skills points wisely we you get far on the game, you won't cut through it, it's not even doable after some point, and that hurts the game alot.
That ok to have some builds being better, others more item Dependant, but, not fun when you have a char, and the skill you choose don't do a scratch when you get to act 4/5
or NM.
i love trying stupid builds. but, in single player, when you get to a point you can't evolve, it's just sad...
(then i usually just mule a bit and start another one... but you know, there are only a few builds that everybody does that make the game really easy to play)
if you can experience more, without getting strongly penalized for it on the end game, then i think the whole thing is ok.
i won't even comment on rushing. i think there are both types of playing, i usually enjoy just getting on single player alone, but sometimes it is fun just to get rushed and mess up with a new char.
if i can play my single player just fine and have fun, i don't care if people are able to rush. i would also do it sometimes just for a change.
Yes the game was made to progress normally but what I want to know is why Blizzard never fixed things like where you could skip the entire process of collecting all of Khalims flail, and if someone had Durance of Hate's waypoint, that you could advance anyhow? And why should you be able to skip Ancients, if you are level one, or lower then 25, and get Baal quest if someone's in the party who can get? Why put these little flaws in here? Why are you able to level like crazy in Uber when you're level 1-80/90. When you can't level fast if you're in act 5, and you're level one? You don't progress at all. Why have these things there for people to just, well I guess cheat shouldn't be the word, but jump there way up there? It just doesn't seem logical to me.
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
Yes the game was made to progress normally but what I want to know is why Blizzard never fixed things like where you could skip the entire process of collecting all of Khalims flail, and if someone had Durance of Hate's waypoint, that you could advance anyhow? And why should you be able to skip Ancients, if you are level one, or lower then 25, and get Baal quest if someone's in the party who can get? Why put these little flaws in here?
They are flaws, but I doubt that they intentionally "put them in there". They were most likely oversights that would have been fixed if noticed. People found them and learned how to exploit them.
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Why have these things there for people to just, well I guess cheat shouldn't be the word, but jump there way up there? It just doesn't seem logical to me.
These things would have been easy enough to fix, however, in the end the programmers provide a product based on what the majority of players want. Sure, many traditionalists would have been pleased if these loopholes were fixed, but the overwhelming response would have been negative and led to decreases in the number of players using their product.
I haven't played D2 for over a year now, but when I was playing I did make use of these avenues for leveling. Yes, it decreases the significance of levels because they are easy to obtain, but it made trying new characters much more appealing. I would have been hesitant to try new characters if I knew that I would have to play them for 2 months to get them to a useful level. Developing new characters provides game variety, and variety is key to keeping players playing. (Of course I say that and then remember doing 500 meph runs in a row )
With that being said, I agree that the experience of the game would be increased if power leveling were not possible. This could be achieved by carefully scouring the game code for loophole possibilities and eliminating them (catch them before people get used to them) and limiting shared experience within a group based on level and/or kill ratio.
Rushing would also have to be controlled. One option would be to require that each and every quest is completed before advancing. Requiring a character to make a certain number of kills at each step along the way could also prevent a higher-level character from completely clearing the way. It looks as though they are going to severly limit teleport as well, which is annoying but effective for decreasing rushing of characters.
I just had a thought. They are bringing Skill Respecing in the Patch 1.13 right? Perhaps Blizzard did leave those glitches there so the re-playability of Diablo was consistent. But with Skill Respecing it might throw those glitches away. Because really all you'd need is one of each class, maybe? I don't know, just a thought.
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
It is like all of those free servers for WoW that gives you instant level 80... that is like doing 50% of the whole RPG element for the player, what is the fun in that? Diablo 2 had replayability, but the quests was not a part of that replayability, so they skipped it completely. D3 will probably be different with randomized quests and more interesting fights. You can level up in more ways than in D2 so it will stay interesting (and hopefully rewarding).
Yea that is one of the reasons I loved wow so much and eventually quit after the first expansion came out.
There is SOOOOO much content the the original wow, and after the expansion came out everyone went to the new zones and the old one was left barren and unpopulated. I was a die hard wow fan started playing since open beta. I played through all of the quests and all of the original dungeons, MC, and Ony being the most memorable, and I hated how all that was thrown away for a tiny new peice of real estate that the expansion gave.
Like Jay wilson said players will take the path of least resistance, they will go to that little peice of real estate if that is the place that gives them the best loot and best exp, even if it is not as big or fun as the older area.
I don't want D2 to die!! R.I.P. Diablo 2: The Worlds Best Action RPG.
But yeah. WoW started okay, then just got to be what I would call ridiculous. If any game should die, it should be WoW. But then again, WoW is making all of the money and if it stopped, where would Blizzard be?
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"From the smallest necessity to the highest religious abstraction, from the wheel to the skyscraper, everything we are and everything we have comes from one attribute of man - the function of his reasoning mind." ~ Ayn Rand
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Diablo 2 is, and forever will be my favorite game. There are flaws like that though. I am hoping in Diablo 3 there wont really be any quick and easy ways to level, or glitches like "G uber" where you can glitch rush a level 1 to hell, and use Uber Tristram to get from level 1-80 in an hour. That's just a complete blow off. I don't even think glitch rushing should be there. I want the best way to level up in Diablo 3 to be actually playing the game. To progress with a few friends, and just enjoy the story line. Not where it gets to the point where the acts are just something to get through to get to the best way to level. Of course there are going to be monsters/places where the experience is better than somewhere else, but there should be a fine balance on it.
I also wouldn't mind more quests. And not just the same ones, but ones that go with the Character Class you are. Different Lore for different character. For Diablo 2 it was all the same. I noticed in Diablo 3 the opening scenes for Sorceress, and some cinematics for the Monk, it seems like they are making the classes different Lore, a bit different paths bit still the same destination. I hope that is what it means, anyways. But it'd be nice to see different quests. And give more depth into a specific class, letting you get to actually feel with them more. With more and new interesting quests, and differing with each class, it's sure to have people actually playing through the game, that's my thought anyways.
What do you all think?
Although he always had the same things to say.
I hope what each NPC says varies way more..
<---- Hates repetition.
Never really played WoW, but I heard leveling is very slow. Diablo 2 leveling is way too fast. The only time it really feels like you're not moving much is 90+ and still the only way to really level is Baal runs.
Also I wasn't comparing experience rates with Two Moons, I was comparing lack of a plot. And it really wasn't comparing, it was saying without a plot that's what it be, and I'm contradicting myself so I'm shutting up
Yeh :~)
Imo the experience rating of bosses and ordinary monsters should decrease. However you should get experience whenever you complete a main quest. This way the best way of leveling would proceed instead of farming a high exp area.
Sick of people that forget its called a game, and sick of them making the majority of the gamers. Sad. Hopefully, D3's most efficient way to level up will be more fun, yes.
People are greedy, that's much too true. I am not the best person in the world, I like having good items too, and I like competing, but there's a line between obsessing and enjoying yourself. Many Diablo 2 players have a different sense of enjoyment. I personally don't like PvP, unless it's with a friend and it's good fun. A lot of PvPers are just bad mouthing people who take your gold every chance they get, and run their mouth too. Not all of them, but a good portion. And being on Diablo 2 for the last few hours has brought me to another thought. I do hope they have better control over 3rd party software. Most specifically bots. Spam/Buy bots are the most annoying thing ever, and it's sad when you have to push "N" to clear messages every 30 seconds, if not less in a public game.
just makes sure that all skills/builds are somewhat efficient as you go up on your level.
everybody knows that if you don't spend your skills points wisely we you get far on the game, you won't cut through it, it's not even doable after some point, and that hurts the game alot.
That ok to have some builds being better, others more item Dependant, but, not fun when you have a char, and the skill you choose don't do a scratch when you get to act 4/5
or NM.
i love trying stupid builds. but, in single player, when you get to a point you can't evolve, it's just sad...
(then i usually just mule a bit and start another one... but you know, there are only a few builds that everybody does that make the game really easy to play)
if you can experience more, without getting strongly penalized for it on the end game, then i think the whole thing is ok.
i won't even comment on rushing. i think there are both types of playing, i usually enjoy just getting on single player alone, but sometimes it is fun just to get rushed and mess up with a new char.
if i can play my single player just fine and have fun, i don't care if people are able to rush. i would also do it sometimes just for a change.
They are flaws, but I doubt that they intentionally "put them in there". They were most likely oversights that would have been fixed if noticed. People found them and learned how to exploit them.
These things would have been easy enough to fix, however, in the end the programmers provide a product based on what the majority of players want. Sure, many traditionalists would have been pleased if these loopholes were fixed, but the overwhelming response would have been negative and led to decreases in the number of players using their product.
I haven't played D2 for over a year now, but when I was playing I did make use of these avenues for leveling. Yes, it decreases the significance of levels because they are easy to obtain, but it made trying new characters much more appealing. I would have been hesitant to try new characters if I knew that I would have to play them for 2 months to get them to a useful level. Developing new characters provides game variety, and variety is key to keeping players playing. (Of course I say that and then remember doing 500 meph runs in a row )
With that being said, I agree that the experience of the game would be increased if power leveling were not possible. This could be achieved by carefully scouring the game code for loophole possibilities and eliminating them (catch them before people get used to them) and limiting shared experience within a group based on level and/or kill ratio.
Rushing would also have to be controlled. One option would be to require that each and every quest is completed before advancing. Requiring a character to make a certain number of kills at each step along the way could also prevent a higher-level character from completely clearing the way. It looks as though they are going to severly limit teleport as well, which is annoying but effective for decreasing rushing of characters.
if it followed a formula like that then most enemies would you the same or similar exp and the whole game would be even for how much exp is given
i think that really is the only way to do it lol
thats why mmos do it when they have much much bigger gaming worlds =3
Be my Buddy =^.^=
There is SOOOOO much content the the original wow, and after the expansion came out everyone went to the new zones and the old one was left barren and unpopulated. I was a die hard wow fan started playing since open beta. I played through all of the quests and all of the original dungeons, MC, and Ony being the most memorable, and I hated how all that was thrown away for a tiny new peice of real estate that the expansion gave.
Like Jay wilson said players will take the path of least resistance, they will go to that little peice of real estate if that is the place that gives them the best loot and best exp, even if it is not as big or fun as the older area.
But yeah. WoW started okay, then just got to be what I would call ridiculous. If any game should die, it should be WoW. But then again, WoW is making all of the money and if it stopped, where would Blizzard be?