well the mentioned game is dull you don't need to think much because it doesn't matter you can reskill, autostats and once the new expansion is arriving they gonna remove more effects --->braindead.
May work for wow but Diablo was never meant to be that way!
I'll take the risk of coming off like a bit of a jerk and say that I think it's a bit sad if the enjoyment you get out of a game comes from placing stats, and the lack thereof makes it dull. In any case, I have a feeling that, to make up for not having like 400 stat points to spend that stats from items will have a greater impact. Thus, customization from items will become even more important.
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"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will." -Thomas Carlyle
I completely disagree. It's so much more obvious what your getting if it reads :
+5%Dodge
+10%Crtical
Than if you get something like this :
+5 Dexterity
+10 Strength
-----------------------
If your say easy to compare by terms of generelization "yeah I got +1 to dex" then yes your right. But honestly, once your past the fact that you got +1 to dex, whats the next train of thought?
WTF is Dex doing for me......
But if they leave you guessing as to what does strength do for me apart from the obvious boost in physical strength, then I think it's utterly useless.
I was looking for a way to word how I felt about this and you captured it perfectly. On a side note...we have no possible idea what other elements they are implementing into gameplay. Just because they are getting rid of placing your own stats does not mean something better, more useful and more rewarding will not take its place. Maybe I'm confused, but won't stats just come from items anyways? So what's the difference between pressing a button in a menu to say "I want to use this item cause it boosts x stat which will increase x% of this".
Understand your point of view but do you really believe items alone will make people start over and over again? I don't think so.
Diablo II's replayability was a combination of custom stats, (fun) builds + gear. I did ask some friends and they all told me they are worried too about the replayability of this game. There is no ladder so what to do after reaching "max level" just farming gear? Whats the point of it? There is no endgame.
Testing another build? Why I can respecc so not many things left.
I know thats based on assumptions but seriously fewer customization = fewer motivation that simple.
What if they gonna implement "class sets"? Thanks to autostats every class will have the same amount at max level and if they add something like class sets everyone will look the same...
I have no idea where this mind set of replayability is coming from. Stats give little replayability value compared to the rest, and thats not even including anything they have not told us about new, unexpected ways to customize your character, which you immediately forget and just go crazy about stats.
Stats is just fake customization. There is little to it, there is little that is valid to do with it. Other than fun build and stupid things, which I'm not saying are not fun to try, but there is nothing thats worth keeping.
I'm not defending this game's customization from what we currently know, because if anything is bland and boring, its the new skill trees. But my point is the stats are really of no concern to the replayability and customization in this game, seriously.
Whats this all about, anyway? Aren't Strength and Dex just more stats together? Strength affect all physical damage, not just min or max, and etc... Dex affects dodging, blocking, hit rating...
I don't want 3 modifier everytime I get something that would essentially be "+ Dex". Beside, we don't really know how its all going to work stats wise. I saw no problem with it and WoW.
Except the entire point is if you have items of DIFFERING stats comparing them is impossible unless you wear them
I don't see a problem with Blizzard taking away how we use stats.
Most people generally bumped up their stats the same way anyway, giving more mana energy to the magic using characters or giving more strength to the barbarian so he use a bigger weapon or get better armor.
If the new rune system works how I think it's going to work, you're going to have more variety then you know what to do with.
that is especially true because more of your characters power will come from the gear that you can find. as well as runes. good choice i think.:thumbsup:
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]I find your lack of faithdisturbing.
I don't see a problem with Blizzard taking away how we use stats.
Most people generally bumped up their stats the same way anyway, giving more mana energy to the magic using characters or giving more strength to the barbarian so he use a bigger weapon or get better armor.
If the new rune system works how I think it's going to work, you're going to have more variety then you know what to do with.
This again is not about variety...
Read the thread please
Quote from "Jaycub" »
that is especially true because more of your characters power will come from the gear that you can find. as well as runes. good choice i think.:thumbsup:
Isn't that kind of backwards ? Stats are a part of your character. Items are an extension of your character. Thus stats should ultimately 'be' your character right ? not the items he/she is wearing.. which should 'personify' them.
What if items we equiped somehow.. changed your characters name what would you say then ?
All of this just exemplifies that stats.. are not what makes your character in D3. Which means they are useless entirely. Displaying them does nothing, its pointless. Show us the character defining things instead.
Just because your stats are customized by what gear you choose to wear instead of direct stat placement does not mean that stats are useless at all. Displaying them is just as useful as it has ever been.
There isn't going to be a choice in the gear you wear. It will come down to carbon copy players with 'best of slot' gear. So not a whole lot of customization anyways. You got an auction house, your going to have players farm drops, and then you'll have people winding up with best of slots for levels blah blah blah blah blah.
Not only that, but the statistical system bears no significant role, because it is the items you wear that defines then anyways. You would never even need to know what stats any items provided. You really don't need to know them.
You are simply going to 'upgrade' your item based on damage / armor value, not by the stats it provides. You don't go.. gee my character defiantly needs more dex.. I'm going to go ahead and find me some 'same' item im wearing and swap it out for more dex. Could you imagine such a chore ?.
Items are items, the 'stats' are a mere wupty do bonus. No one playing even the demo cared to look at stats. No one mentioned them, that is exactly how important they are.
Let me give you guys a crazy example:
So we have a futuristic car, that is driven automatically by gps. Does the driver honestly need to see a tachometer, speedometer ? Does the driver need the illusion that they could drive by providing a steering wheel ?
There isn't going to be a choice in the gear you wear. It will come down to carbon copy players with 'best of slot' gear. So not a whole lot of customization anyways. You got an auction house, your going to have players farm drops, and then you'll have people winding up with best of slots for levels blah blah blah blah blah.
Not only that, but the statistical system bears no significant role, because it is the items you wear that defines then anyways. You would never even need to know what stats any items provided. You really don't need to know them.
You are simply going to 'upgrade' your item based on damage / armor value, not by the stats it provides. You don't go.. gee my character defiantly needs more dex.. I'm going to go ahead and find me some 'same' item im wearing and swap it out for more dex. Could you imagine such a chore ?.
Items are items, the 'stats' are a mere wupty do bonus. No one playing even the demo cared to look at stats. No one mentioned them, that is exactly how important they are.
Let me give you guys a crazy example:
So we have a futuristic car, that is driven automatically by gps. Does the driver honestly need to see a tachometer, speedometer ? Does the driver need the illusion that they could drive by providing a steering wheel ?
You're missing the point. Stats are just as useful to look at even if they are only supplied by gear. You want to know what the total strength from all the gear you're wearing is, and you want to know the effect of it on your damage output when you hover over the stat (or in a second box under it). It's that simple.
I don't get it. Just because you can't modify stats with every level up doesn't mean they become useless.
We all know in D2 that the only use for stats were to equip certain items and for some crazy builds. So why are so many people complaining?
1. There will still be many ways to customize stats, quests, equips, buffs, probably some special items (one time, through a quest or something, so its not farmable). I can almost guarantee that, assuming stats had the same value and effect as in D2, that you will be able to allocate at least 10-20 stat points in one difficulty.
2. Stats are not just there for fun. They are vital for the programming of the game. The make alot of things easier on the developer's side and also on the players side. For us hardcore " I want to know exactly how much damage i do" people there will still be ways to find that out. I personally like having to whip out my calculator and start pressing buttons and seeing numbers and stuff. Just because I can't change my stats by 5 every level doesn't mean they wont effect the game. They will still determine damage and what not. And everyone who is complaining will still be doing every thing to get that +1 in str.
3. Why does anyone even give a damn? As far as I'm concerned there are already many ways to customize you character. Runes, Skills, Items with new and interesting modifiers, Mercs, Gems & Sockets...of course blizzard will come up with something new, and Stats will still be a major part of the game.
My argument is that in D3 stats wont be as much as of a concern, you wont even notice/care if they are gone, it isnt D2 without stat allocation, its D3. They will still be vital but even if the 2 barbs have the same stats they probably wont be the same in any other way. What blizzard is aiming for in D3 is playstyle, A.K.A SKILL, not just "oh i max this and max that and now i can 1 shot everything."
As we already can see, blizz is making the game harder. Removing TP's, adding more difficult situations, assigning stats so they can understand how strong you will be at lvl X and bump the difficulty so you dont feel like youve reached endgame yet, and who knows what else they will do? Probably Duriel 2 or something...
Id rather see whats infront of me and act based on that than spend 1 hour looking at builds, then sucking at low levels to save points and then spending them after i beat the game and then 1 shoting every thing in my path. Maybe im missing something but I just don't understand why some people want it the way it was before. Think about it this way, if Blizz is going to make a hell mode and they put less emphasis on resistances and stats blah blah blah, AND they still live up to the name hell mode how awsome would that be. Even if there wont be new monsters or anything, there will be situtations were you just yell OH S***. I could care less about stats as long as my character is still different in some way, the game still retains major RPG elements, and i yell at my screen every 30 seconds because the game is that good.
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Why do you people INSIST that what I'm talking about has anything to do with Diablo 2.
This is about giving back customization of stats, and making them worth while, orremoving them from sight, and only showing modifiers instead.
If we cannot adjust stats, do not display them to us. Just show us the individual modifiers... all 20 gazillion of them.
Item customization is not customization at all. There will 'always' be best per slot items. I honestly doubt, that we will see 1h swords with the SAME dex modifier that daggers will get.
All the unique items and quest items, will not be a 'customizational' aspect of your character. Anyone one player can get a drop, anyone can get on the forum and make a cookie cutter build. You act like there won't be cookie cutter builds based on talent points and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH... seriously that IS NOT AN ARGUMENT POINT.
Items are going to have a set amount of allocation 'points' they can distribute based on the item level it is. That is obvious at this point.
Ex:
Greens 10
Blues 20
Purples 30
+ level or some crap like that
Otherwise the items are going to be severely overpowered if they have words and ranges, like how D2 was.
So now, if you honestly wanted to go a specific direction with your character, that is not mainstream you will most likely never be as powerful as some cookie cutter crap.
Now I'm not talking about have extreme left or extreme right builds. I'm talking about strengthening one aspect of your character over another. Crit over raw damage, mana regen over large pools, speed over power.
Everyone will be generic because you cannot do what you want with your character if there is no supporting items to do it. How is THAT customization.. I'll never understand.
i really hope they dont make it to where you have to have some dext or str and stuff to wield things i want more like WoW with required levels...to me thats much better...and btw no more runewords in diablo 3 you just forge some certain runes together and customize a spell or skill you have like the wizard teleporting will do a AoE when used and do dmg at same time as teleporting thats cool
does customizing your stats really matter? didnt everyone in d2 choose the same exact stat assignments anyway?
keep the customization focused on modifying our skills, and let all of the stat customization come from our gear. what were stat assignments except a sort of compliment to our gear anyway?
Everyone will be generic because you cannot do what you want with your character if there is no supporting items to do it. How is THAT customization.. I'll never understand.
How is that any different from any possible sort of "customization"? Items, skills, stats, everything is absolutely meaningless customization according to you. If you can customize your stats, its the same damn freakin' thing. Something will be better, something will give "more" and thats what most will go for.
Customization is when a large number of multiple paths is balanced together more or less consistently at more or less the same stages of the game. Customization suffers when some path that should be viable is not viable, or some other path is too viable. Paths should also be intuitive enough that one doesn't need a guide to know it will be viable...
Auto-stats is one of the best changes being introduced in Diablo III, it's just taking people forever to grasp the concept and what it means gameplay-wise.
And what exactly does it mean? Besides destroying any possibilities of creating a truly customized character. Auto-stats suck dick because they take away the last chance of customization outside of items. Items now are the pure source of creating a good character, just like in WoW and many other new games. This was the main reason why Guild Wars was so appealing to me. Items mean barely anything while skill and teamwork (Along with creating a good team "build") were what truly decided who won the fight.
Why is almost every aspect of the game that was changed, now more like WoW? Items, auto-stats, skills, gameplay itself, bosses?
I wish they could have given you more monsters to kill instead of less. Make stats more customizable instead of removing them. And weaken items as the source of true power instead of strengthening them. Why would they do these things? By making items the only way to better your character this makes time playing the game more important than any skill required (as if their was any in the first place....)
I don't understand why they would make time spent playing the game so important, like in WoW, when they are not making profit on how much you play but only the initial sale.
The whole point of having a different franchise is to make different games, not only in storyline but in gameplay as well. I see Diablo 3 becoming even more of a WoW clone as patches come out in the future.
Up until recently I was very set on buying this game on release date, but as more announcements are made about the game the less I want to buy it.
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I'll take the risk of coming off like a bit of a jerk and say that I think it's a bit sad if the enjoyment you get out of a game comes from placing stats, and the lack thereof makes it dull. In any case, I have a feeling that, to make up for not having like 400 stat points to spend that stats from items will have a greater impact. Thus, customization from items will become even more important.
"Everywhere the human soul stands between a hemisphere of light and another of darkness; on the confines of the two everlasting empires, necessity and free will."
-Thomas Carlyle
I was looking for a way to word how I felt about this and you captured it perfectly. On a side note...we have no possible idea what other elements they are implementing into gameplay. Just because they are getting rid of placing your own stats does not mean something better, more useful and more rewarding will not take its place. Maybe I'm confused, but won't stats just come from items anyways? So what's the difference between pressing a button in a menu to say "I want to use this item cause it boosts x stat which will increase x% of this".
Amen. Sad really.
I have no idea where this mind set of replayability is coming from. Stats give little replayability value compared to the rest, and thats not even including anything they have not told us about new, unexpected ways to customize your character, which you immediately forget and just go crazy about stats.
Stats is just fake customization. There is little to it, there is little that is valid to do with it. Other than fun build and stupid things, which I'm not saying are not fun to try, but there is nothing thats worth keeping.
I'm not defending this game's customization from what we currently know, because if anything is bland and boring, its the new skill trees. But my point is the stats are really of no concern to the replayability and customization in this game, seriously.
Except the entire point is if you have items of DIFFERING stats comparing them is impossible unless you wear them
Most people generally bumped up their stats the same way anyway, giving more mana energy to the magic using characters or giving more strength to the barbarian so he use a bigger weapon or get better armor.
If the new rune system works how I think it's going to work, you're going to have more variety then you know what to do with.
This again is not about variety...
Read the thread please
Isn't that kind of backwards ? Stats are a part of your character. Items are an extension of your character. Thus stats should ultimately 'be' your character right ? not the items he/she is wearing.. which should 'personify' them.
What if items we equiped somehow.. changed your characters name what would you say then ?
All of this just exemplifies that stats.. are not what makes your character in D3. Which means they are useless entirely. Displaying them does nothing, its pointless. Show us the character defining things instead.
There isn't going to be a choice in the gear you wear. It will come down to carbon copy players with 'best of slot' gear. So not a whole lot of customization anyways. You got an auction house, your going to have players farm drops, and then you'll have people winding up with best of slots for levels blah blah blah blah blah.
Not only that, but the statistical system bears no significant role, because it is the items you wear that defines then anyways. You would never even need to know what stats any items provided. You really don't need to know them.
You are simply going to 'upgrade' your item based on damage / armor value, not by the stats it provides. You don't go.. gee my character defiantly needs more dex.. I'm going to go ahead and find me some 'same' item im wearing and swap it out for more dex. Could you imagine such a chore ?.
Items are items, the 'stats' are a mere wupty do bonus. No one playing even the demo cared to look at stats. No one mentioned them, that is exactly how important they are.
Let me give you guys a crazy example:
So we have a futuristic car, that is driven automatically by gps. Does the driver honestly need to see a tachometer, speedometer ? Does the driver need the illusion that they could drive by providing a steering wheel ?
You're missing the point. Stats are just as useful to look at even if they are only supplied by gear. You want to know what the total strength from all the gear you're wearing is, and you want to know the effect of it on your damage output when you hover over the stat (or in a second box under it). It's that simple.
(='.'=)
(")_(")
Stay awhile, and listen.
We all know in D2 that the only use for stats were to equip certain items and for some crazy builds. So why are so many people complaining?
1. There will still be many ways to customize stats, quests, equips, buffs, probably some special items (one time, through a quest or something, so its not farmable). I can almost guarantee that, assuming stats had the same value and effect as in D2, that you will be able to allocate at least 10-20 stat points in one difficulty.
2. Stats are not just there for fun. They are vital for the programming of the game. The make alot of things easier on the developer's side and also on the players side. For us hardcore " I want to know exactly how much damage i do" people there will still be ways to find that out. I personally like having to whip out my calculator and start pressing buttons and seeing numbers and stuff. Just because I can't change my stats by 5 every level doesn't mean they wont effect the game. They will still determine damage and what not. And everyone who is complaining will still be doing every thing to get that +1 in str.
3. Why does anyone even give a damn? As far as I'm concerned there are already many ways to customize you character. Runes, Skills, Items with new and interesting modifiers, Mercs, Gems & Sockets...of course blizzard will come up with something new, and Stats will still be a major part of the game.
My argument is that in D3 stats wont be as much as of a concern, you wont even notice/care if they are gone, it isnt D2 without stat allocation, its D3. They will still be vital but even if the 2 barbs have the same stats they probably wont be the same in any other way. What blizzard is aiming for in D3 is playstyle, A.K.A SKILL, not just "oh i max this and max that and now i can 1 shot everything."
As we already can see, blizz is making the game harder. Removing TP's, adding more difficult situations, assigning stats so they can understand how strong you will be at lvl X and bump the difficulty so you dont feel like youve reached endgame yet, and who knows what else they will do? Probably Duriel 2 or something...
Id rather see whats infront of me and act based on that than spend 1 hour looking at builds, then sucking at low levels to save points and then spending them after i beat the game and then 1 shoting every thing in my path. Maybe im missing something but I just don't understand why some people want it the way it was before. Think about it this way, if Blizz is going to make a hell mode and they put less emphasis on resistances and stats blah blah blah, AND they still live up to the name hell mode how awsome would that be. Even if there wont be new monsters or anything, there will be situtations were you just yell OH S***. I could care less about stats as long as my character is still different in some way, the game still retains major RPG elements, and i yell at my screen every 30 seconds because the game is that good.
This is about giving back customization of stats, and making them worth while, or removing them from sight, and only showing modifiers instead.
If we cannot adjust stats, do not display them to us. Just show us the individual modifiers... all 20 gazillion of them.
Item customization is not customization at all. There will 'always' be best per slot items. I honestly doubt, that we will see 1h swords with the SAME dex modifier that daggers will get.
All the unique items and quest items, will not be a 'customizational' aspect of your character. Anyone one player can get a drop, anyone can get on the forum and make a cookie cutter build. You act like there won't be cookie cutter builds based on talent points and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah BLAH... seriously that IS NOT AN ARGUMENT POINT.
Items are going to have a set amount of allocation 'points' they can distribute based on the item level it is. That is obvious at this point.
Ex:
Greens 10
Blues 20
Purples 30
+ level or some crap like that
Otherwise the items are going to be severely overpowered if they have words and ranges, like how D2 was.
So now, if you honestly wanted to go a specific direction with your character, that is not mainstream you will most likely never be as powerful as some cookie cutter crap.
Now I'm not talking about have extreme left or extreme right builds. I'm talking about strengthening one aspect of your character over another. Crit over raw damage, mana regen over large pools, speed over power.
Everyone will be generic because you cannot do what you want with your character if there is no supporting items to do it. How is THAT customization.. I'll never understand.
keep the customization focused on modifying our skills, and let all of the stat customization come from our gear. what were stat assignments except a sort of compliment to our gear anyway?
How is that any different from any possible sort of "customization"? Items, skills, stats, everything is absolutely meaningless customization according to you. If you can customize your stats, its the same damn freakin' thing. Something will be better, something will give "more" and thats what most will go for.
And what exactly does it mean? Besides destroying any possibilities of creating a truly customized character. Auto-stats suck dick because they take away the last chance of customization outside of items. Items now are the pure source of creating a good character, just like in WoW and many other new games. This was the main reason why Guild Wars was so appealing to me. Items mean barely anything while skill and teamwork (Along with creating a good team "build") were what truly decided who won the fight.
Why is almost every aspect of the game that was changed, now more like WoW? Items, auto-stats, skills, gameplay itself, bosses?
I wish they could have given you more monsters to kill instead of less. Make stats more customizable instead of removing them. And weaken items as the source of true power instead of strengthening them. Why would they do these things? By making items the only way to better your character this makes time playing the game more important than any skill required (as if their was any in the first place....)
I don't understand why they would make time spent playing the game so important, like in WoW, when they are not making profit on how much you play but only the initial sale.
The whole point of having a different franchise is to make different games, not only in storyline but in gameplay as well. I see Diablo 3 becoming even more of a WoW clone as patches come out in the future.
Up until recently I was very set on buying this game on release date, but as more announcements are made about the game the less I want to buy it.