I think sometimes companies like these try to appease the general public a little to much. Sure the general public is the majority of the population but they are not always right and most of them prolly dont care or even think about the game on a complex level they just play and thats fine. I hope blizzard listens to the smaller groups of people who really do care and put a lot of thought into there games.
Annnnd with that, we can stop hearing all the crying about people wanting to make a bow barbarian or a melee wizard because now they can
I never wanted to do that random shit, though I believe players should have the option to. I wanted the game to retain another parameter of excellence (stat distribution) that separated me, and players like me, from the unwashed masses of clueless perpetual noobs.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Am I alone in my happiness? I love every change they're making.
Diablo 3 ftw.
Yeah I'm pretty much happy about everything so far, because the last fun I had in D2 was before LOD came and there is no returning to that in battle.net. ( don't wanna play single player with old patch)
Yeah I'm pretty much happy about everything so far, because the last fun I had in D2 was before LOD came and there is no returning to that in battle.net. ( don't wanna play single player with old patch)
So then everyone has the same melee Wizard wearing the same +Strength gear? How silly is that?
So your implying that in the diablo 2 system, everyone had differing stat point distributions? As in they some people put melee sorcs into Energy without putting points in Strength/Dexterity?
Even if they did you can still gear for more energy... it's the same sort of thing.
It's more or less the same except for you aren't penalised as much if you screw up, replacing a piece of gear isn't as frustrating as re levelling the same character the same way.
Think of the "base stats" a sorc has are similar to how an assassin got 3 points of life per vitality compared to other classes getting 1, 1.5 or 2 etc....
It's a similar system in that regards transfered into another one
Quote from "Lord_Jaroh" »
I prefer customization. I would like a Melee Wizard to stand a chance against a Barbarian, since they gave us the option to make one. Otherwise why bother? Give different reasons for upping the stats and you have stopped "dump stats"
I believe stat allocation gives the ILLUSION of customisation, really there is all ways an optimal way to spend those attribute points and you are penalised for not following that distribution and you can not undo that distribution. Even then your particular class is still limited by A) their starting attributes and the rate they scale in life/mana/regeneration and in the case of strength/dexterity how much damage/block bonus you get per point allocated.
Have you seen the wizards skill tree's, I had a breif glance and saw there was a special armour, a special weapon enchant and if you gear yourself with vitality/strength items, use the appropriate runes (btw the skill rune system is a far more diverse and interesting/entertaining form of customisation that stat point allocation) and spells, you can still most likely be a melee caster.
Over all I think the most important thing to mention is that these crazy off specs were very rare and not overly powerful... I saw "shout barbs" and they were pathetic, I attempted to make one and it wasn't powerful or fun. I'm not saying you shouldn't have the right to make these crazy off spec characters... But they were a minority and making the game worse for the majority to benefit the minority is a pretty bad business logic.
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"If we're actually making the game worse with no other reason than to be different from WoW, then it's a bad choice." - Jay Wilson (D3 lead designer)
Btw when creating your first characters it was sad that with the weak gear you first had, you needed to pump a lot of str/dex to use the new weapon. Then later you found amulet with str/dex and if you wanted to have a lot of vitality as many wanted the points you pumped at start was useless.
I remember many of my untwinked sorcs that had this problem. In classic I wanted to make them with base str/dex but it was really hard as untwinked you would have pretty much no gear for long time.
The current D2 stats system is fine. Auto stats are fail imo.
Why?
Because it destroy replay value and individualism. Sure almost everyone gets min stat requirements to where there gear and pump vitality. Cool so what thats almost like auto stats right? But if you like you have the option to make those different and extreme chars if you like.
The only thing I see wrong with the current D2 stat system is stupid mistakes and having to rebuild chars. My solution is a system that does not allow respecs but prevents mistakes.
Solution
A system that when putting in points you have a small amount of time (Ex: You have 60 seconds to undo) to undo what you did if you misclicked or make a bad calculation. What this does is allow you to fix mistakes without having the time to test out different builds. The other part of the system will be a stat allocation system.
Example:
STAT --------------------- TOTAL POINTS ------------- ALLOCATE
This will allow you to move a small amount of points like 40 max from one stat to another. Say your max level and you have put all your points in. Then you find a new weapon that requires 15 more strength than your current weapon but you already put your min strength requirement in for your current weapon and pumped the rest in vitality. Just allocate 15 points from vitality into streangth.
Non of this matters though cuz there are no item requirements.
simple is not always better and neither is complex you have to find a happy medium which is hard.
This system does a few things...
Prevents stupid mistakes (misclicks)
Prevents total respecs
Allows you to make end game minor ajustments
Jay says "For the most part attribute spending in Diablo II was a great way - when you didn’t know how to play the game - to break your character."
Anyone who's new to the game should have to go through a learning phase. With no learning curve the game quickly becomes boring because there's barely any choices to make. Why why why is Jay on a mission to make this the easiest candy-coated game on the market? I liked being able to make choices, sometimes I made mistakes but oh well, I learned from them and felt like a better player because of it. But now Jay chooses all my attribute points for me? Who's Jay to say, "THIS is how we play!"
Anyone who's new to the game should have to go through a learning phase. With no learning curve the game quickly becomes boring because there's barely any choices to make. Why why why is Jay on a mission to make this the easiest candy-coated game on the market? I liked being able to make choices, sometimes I made mistakes but oh well, I learned from them and felt like a better player because of it. But now Jay chooses all my attribute points for me? Who's Jay to say, "THIS is how we play!"
lol gogo appease the general public and make the game idiot proof
mistakes and are good and lead to self improvement... this is true in real life and video games.
Stop whining about games being idiot proof. They all are nowadays. Tell me where you can find a game nowadays that is only for the hardcore audience that does nothing else but study the game system? Nothing, even Wow that was quite easy to start has gone even easier for the casual players. If you want hardcore RPG multiplayer game with visuals that you can yourself imagine play MUD's. For singleplayer play some of those roguelike games adom or nethack.
absolutely
Well then you are the first one I know that don't think: pre-lod > lod.
It's because of people whining that they make them idiot proof. Diablo 2 wasn't idiot proof and it was a great success. Why should Diablo 3 change that?
It's because of people whining that they make them idiot proof. Diablo 2 wasn't idiot proof and it was a great success. Why should Diablo 3 change that?
Just because it was a success doesn't mean that it didn't have flaws (obviously)
It's because of people whining that they make them idiot proof. Diablo 2 wasn't idiot proof and it was a great success. Why should Diablo 3 change that?
As I said, this is the direction in gaming, too bad. But it doesn't mean that we don't have any new challenges in the game. Picking the right items to your spec, picking the right skills in the first place.
D2 was idiot proof the minute you wrote "Class X guide" to google.
Just because it was a success doesn't mean that it didn't have flaws (obviously)
Calling something a flaw implies it's a small part of something greater. We're talking about something like the attribute system which is a huge part of game play. To say that removing the attribute system is just removing a flaw is wrong.
As I said, this is the direction in gaming, too bad.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I choose to support notions that I agree with instead of saying, "oh, this is how things are, too bad."
Calling something a flaw implies it's a small part of something greater. We're talking about something like the attribute system which is a huge part of game play. To say that removing the attribute system is just removing a flaw is wrong.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I choose to support notions that I agree with instead of saying, "oh, this is how things are, too bad."
A flaw is an imperfection or weakness that detracts from the whole or hinders effectiveness. If the game is the whole then the attribute system is the flaw that is affecting its effectiveness. I truly believe that the attribute system hindered the customization of classes by creating an instance in which the bounds of effectiveness were drawn clearly within a single set of variables, instead of being drawn with a multitude of complex and strategic variables that reach the same ends but with more end results.
I truly believe that the attribute system hindered the customization of classes by creating an instance in which the bounds of effectiveness were drawn clearly within a single set of variables, instead of being drawn with a multitude of complex and strategic variables that reach the same ends but with more end results.
Are you trying to confuse me into agreeing with you? I'm going to have to ignore the bomb you just dropped and stick to the one part that makes sense: attribute system hindered the customization of classes. The attribute system lets us customize our classes however we want. No attribute system automates our classes for us. Customization good. Automation bad. Let's keep it simple.
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I never wanted to do that random shit, though I believe players should have the option to. I wanted the game to retain another parameter of excellence (stat distribution) that separated me, and players like me, from the unwashed masses of clueless perpetual noobs.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Yeah I'm pretty much happy about everything so far, because the last fun I had in D2 was before LOD came and there is no returning to that in battle.net. ( don't wanna play single player with old patch)
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
mmm best time imo was patch 1.09
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Well did u play before lod?:)
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
So your implying that in the diablo 2 system, everyone had differing stat point distributions? As in they some people put melee sorcs into Energy without putting points in Strength/Dexterity?
Even if they did you can still gear for more energy... it's the same sort of thing.
It's more or less the same except for you aren't penalised as much if you screw up, replacing a piece of gear isn't as frustrating as re levelling the same character the same way.
Think of the "base stats" a sorc has are similar to how an assassin got 3 points of life per vitality compared to other classes getting 1, 1.5 or 2 etc....
It's a similar system in that regards transfered into another one
I believe stat allocation gives the ILLUSION of customisation, really there is all ways an optimal way to spend those attribute points and you are penalised for not following that distribution and you can not undo that distribution. Even then your particular class is still limited by A) their starting attributes and the rate they scale in life/mana/regeneration and in the case of strength/dexterity how much damage/block bonus you get per point allocated.
Have you seen the wizards skill tree's, I had a breif glance and saw there was a special armour, a special weapon enchant and if you gear yourself with vitality/strength items, use the appropriate runes (btw the skill rune system is a far more diverse and interesting/entertaining form of customisation that stat point allocation) and spells, you can still most likely be a melee caster.
Over all I think the most important thing to mention is that these crazy off specs were very rare and not overly powerful... I saw "shout barbs" and they were pathetic, I attempted to make one and it wasn't powerful or fun. I'm not saying you shouldn't have the right to make these crazy off spec characters... But they were a minority and making the game worse for the majority to benefit the minority is a pretty bad business logic.
Btw when creating your first characters it was sad that with the weak gear you first had, you needed to pump a lot of str/dex to use the new weapon. Then later you found amulet with str/dex and if you wanted to have a lot of vitality as many wanted the points you pumped at start was useless.
I remember many of my untwinked sorcs that had this problem. In classic I wanted to make them with base str/dex but it was really hard as untwinked you would have pretty much no gear for long time.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
The current D2 stats system is fine. Auto stats are fail imo.
Why?
Because it destroy replay value and individualism. Sure almost everyone gets min stat requirements to where there gear and pump vitality. Cool so what thats almost like auto stats right? But if you like you have the option to make those different and extreme chars if you like.
The only thing I see wrong with the current D2 stat system is stupid mistakes and having to rebuild chars. My solution is a system that does not allow respecs but prevents mistakes.
Solution
A system that when putting in points you have a small amount of time (Ex: You have 60 seconds to undo) to undo what you did if you misclicked or make a bad calculation. What this does is allow you to fix mistakes without having the time to test out different builds. The other part of the system will be a stat allocation system.
Example:
STAT --------------------- TOTAL POINTS ------------- ALLOCATE
Strength ---------------------- 120 ----------------------------- 40
This will allow you to move a small amount of points like 40 max from one stat to another. Say your max level and you have put all your points in. Then you find a new weapon that requires 15 more strength than your current weapon but you already put your min strength requirement in for your current weapon and pumped the rest in vitality. Just allocate 15 points from vitality into streangth.
Non of this matters though cuz there are no item requirements.
simple is not always better and neither is complex you have to find a happy medium which is hard.
This system does a few things...
Prevents stupid mistakes (misclicks)
Prevents total respecs
Allows you to make end game minor ajustments
+ GoneHostile.com - Diablo III PvP Community +
Support My D3: PvP and Mule Pet Systems!
lol gogo appease the general public and make the game idiot proof
mistakes and are good and lead to self improvement... this is true in real life and video games.
+ GoneHostile.com - Diablo III PvP Community +
Support My D3: PvP and Mule Pet Systems!
absolutely
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Support My D3: PvP and Mule Pet Systems!
Well then you are the first one I know that don't think: pre-lod > lod.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
It's because of people whining that they make them idiot proof. Diablo 2 wasn't idiot proof and it was a great success. Why should Diablo 3 change that?
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
As I said, this is the direction in gaming, too bad. But it doesn't mean that we don't have any new challenges in the game. Picking the right items to your spec, picking the right skills in the first place.
D2 was idiot proof the minute you wrote "Class X guide" to google.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Calling something a flaw implies it's a small part of something greater. We're talking about something like the attribute system which is a huge part of game play. To say that removing the attribute system is just removing a flaw is wrong.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I choose to support notions that I agree with instead of saying, "oh, this is how things are, too bad."
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Are you trying to confuse me into agreeing with you? I'm going to have to ignore the bomb you just dropped and stick to the one part that makes sense: attribute system hindered the customization of classes. The attribute system lets us customize our classes however we want. No attribute system automates our classes for us. Customization good. Automation bad. Let's keep it simple.