There can be no competition if it doesn't involve two willing participants, it's just killing besides that.
You can't compete with someone who doesn't want to compete. It's like running up with boxing gloves on punching someone out and declaring yourself the winner. Meanwhile the other person and everyone else is standing around going "WTF?".
Half the time it's more like a grown man running in and knocking out a 9 year old. Killing lower levels isn't needed or competition at in any form.
Anyone who joins a game is subjecting themselves to this competition though. The competition is inherent to the game. More so in HC mode. It's like going into a counter-strike game and demanding that everybody use knives... and then when someone kills you with a gun, saying that you weren't willing to engage in a gun fight so they are doing something wrong. If you are familiar with CS, you will know what I mean.
So by joining a public game you are automatically throwing yourself into a potential PvP environment.
There is no competition in a PvP game if people could chose who whey are imune to. This only works in PvE oriented games, which D2 is most definitely not, and D3 wiill also probably be quite shallow in terms of PvE in comparison to MMO's like WoW.
So by joining a public game you are automatically throwing yourself into a potential PvP environment.
There is no competition in a PvP game if people could chose who whey are imune to. This only works in PvE oriented games, which D2 is most definitely not, and D3 wiill also probably be quite shallow in terms of PvE in comparison to MMO's like WoW.
It's NOT a PvP game... it turned into that. They want to refocus the game on cooperative play.
PvP was meant as a side attraction, not a main event. It still pretty much is. I'd say 40% bought Diablo for PvP and a even smaller 10% of that 40% play it for PKing.
This is supported by the fact the game actually has a storyline, long and extensive lore, plenty of items to loot from monsters and bosses and NOTHING to gain from killing people except gold, which you drop gold whether you die by a monster or a player.
Anyone who joins a game is subjecting themselves to this competition though. The competition is inherent to the game. More so in HC mode. It's like going into a counter-strike game and demanding that everybody use knives... and then when someone kills you with a gun, saying that you weren't willing to engage in a gun fight so they are doing something wrong. If you are familiar with CS, you will know what I mean.
It is actually not like that at all. There isn't a large section of counter-strike that can be played without killing other players. The game is based ENTIRELY around conflict with other players. Diablo 2 is not, there is an extensive PvM portion of the game that has had much more effort put into it than the PvP aspect. The games are entirely different, and beyond comparison. You tell people they cannot compare Diablo 2 with any other game when they try to make a point, but you endlessly compare it to games that have very few if any similarities to Diablo 2. You're choosing to selectively pick aspects of the games and use that as support for your argument. "You can kill people in D2, you kill people in CS: Ta-da! It's like the same game."
Just because you choose to ignore the PvM aspect of Diablo 2 does not mean that everyone does.
That is my thing. I myself won't begrudge anybody the right of PvP or PK, but if I were set up a game in multiplayer I wouldn't tolerate it. Unless, of course it's amongst friends. At LEAST I know I would get my stuff back.
Erm how is it NOT Blizzards game? The people wanting PKing are a very small percentile over what will be the whole community of the game. Even if some of the new players are from WoW. A player is a player. Why should 15% have a say against the majority over something that contributes nothing to the game but grief to many and fun to one person?
I know you agreed it's time for a change, I just wanted to see your opinions on these questions.
Exactly, Blizzard is not removing pk from the game because of ''it's they're game bullshit'' they are doing it because a considerable amount of the player base dislike getting griefed.
There's no such thing as ''its mine, i do it my way'', Blizzard take they're fan suggestions serious, and if enough people think that pk(or cartoonish graphics) are a nono them that's the way it's going to be.
ps: I love pk and the new graphics, but i'l trade pk for a deep pvp system anytime, anyday.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
I heard this...can't remember who said it...but it's true. It's not that I can't defend myself or run away or tp, it's interupting the game, and when one person ruins the game for seven other people, there is a problem.
Question: Which should have a louder voice? One person or seven people?
And one thing that REALLY pisses me off, I get to hell and get into a really good Baal run, over and over, then a PK'er comes along and kills everyone and follows the runs, thus ending the run series.
I read the OP's post, and skipped the other 20 some-odd pages of well-stated posts and ill-thought flames, to add my 2gp:
By allowing a full-on PK system (or Griefing), you remove elements of low to mid game by allowing the camping // griefing // and terrorizing of players who are attempting to play the game at a normal and enjoyable pace. I understand there may be a "challenge" involved in running and hiding from, or preparing for someone who is decked out in gear they've worked hard for.... like some "uber-boss"... but lets face it... most true PvPers prefer an even playing field against equal-skilled players, not "Suprise! I killed you while you were trying to kill Baal.... and now you can't finish this run". I feel there is no real honor in PKing.
And while we're on the subject, PvP is much different than PK. Player Killing implies one-sided, oft overpowered and indiscriminate, killing based solely on the idea of "preying on the weak". PvP, however, implies an equal footing, skill versus skill, matchup against two players. Never should those two be associated with each other.
That's my 2gp at least.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
That's like hosting a "what is the best game ever? Diablo or ______( insert any game here) ____" on this site. This website is dedicated to the pre-discussion of a game still 2 years out. I'd say most of the viewers here are fairly die-hard fans that consider the diablo series to be one of the best around. It's called having a bias for the polls. Similarly, if you went to a WoW website and asked what is better, WoW or Age of Conan? you'd most likely receive a similar biased answer.
You don't have to be biased with WoW, nothing can compare with that game. WoW is the best MMORPG game in history @ this point in time. Another picture here WoW is mainstream AoC is not. That game is just another Guild Wars or something lame in comparison.
Anti-PK camp: "Blizzard should give players the option of disallowing PK when they create a game. That way everyone can make a game that is suited to their prefered playing style." Absolutely not. This is an incredibly flawed argument. I will discuss HC in this situation. - Allowing people to avoid non-consentual HC duels in public games by restricting it, is pretty much a way for Blizzard to eliminating PK without actually admitting that they are eliminating it. I am a big fan of the current HC PvP system, but if I am playing HC and I see an option that allows me to be invulnerable to PK, obviously I am going to chose it. - My point is that i dont want to have this option. If I can choose whether or not I can be killed by another player, it completely removes all the suspense and challenge that PK brings to the HC experience. I don't see why my fun should be compromised because many people want an easier game. HC is meant to be very difficult. - The same goes for dueling games. If there is an option to make your dueling game a consent-only dueling game, then obviously all HC players would take the easy road, only participating in polite, consented duels. Talk about a snoozefest.
I personally loved the Pk option in DII. I don't like the people who constantly hostile you because they can while you try to lvl up. So the idea of that option is good. That way I don't have to deal with people like that.
I am really tired of everyone suggesting that those of us who want PK disabled in D3 to "go back to WoW". I, for one, have never played WoW, and never will. I enjoyed Diablo II for a good number of years, and want to be able to enjoy Diablo III in all its glory without the assholery of hackers and griefers breaking the immersion. I want to be able to meet other players and perhaps even make some friends along the way, not be forced to play by myself (may as well just play single-player if that would be the case). You can't make friends if you don't go out and mingle, and you can't mingle if you lock up your games where no one can randomly enter and greet you.
What you pro-PK children are proposing is called a "catch-22". Look it up and get back to us.
Cheers,
SmashBoy (ignorance is futile, you will be assimilated)
"pro-PK children" that was kinda funny noticing your name and all. To you I say MAN up and take it or stop bitching.
I read the OP's post, and skipped the other 20 some-odd pages of well-stated posts and ill-thought flames, to add my 2gp:
By allowing a full-on PK system (or Griefing), you remove elements of low to mid game by allowing the camping // griefing // and terrorizing of players who are attempting to play the game at a normal and enjoyable pace. I understand there may be a "challenge" involved in running and hiding from, or preparing for someone who is decked out in gear they've worked hard for.... like some "uber-boss"... but lets face it... most true PvPers prefer an even playing field against equal-skilled players, not "Suprise! I killed you while you were trying to kill Baal.... and now you can't finish this run". I feel there is no real honor in PKing.
And while we're on the subject, PvP is much different than PK. Player Killing implies one-sided, oft overpowered and indiscriminate, killing based solely on the idea of "preying on the weak". PvP, however, implies an equal footing, skill versus skill, matchup against two players. Never should those two be associated with each other.
That's my 2gp at least.
The way you talk gives off the impression that pking happens at every single game, every run.
Not sure how D2 is this days, but back them... i had what, 1 pk every 40 games/runs or so, and i was a addicted player for more than 2 years, i dont think that ''pk ruins runs'' is a valid statement, and in my view, not even blizzard has a valid argument to remove it.
Yeah it sucks to get griefed(to grief, feels awesome ), but imo pking didnt happen so regurlary in D2 to the point of turning itself an issue in D3.
Get real, folks, the diablo you all knew is dead, a few years ago i said right here in this forum that D3 had a pretty good chance of being blizzard first bust (i was flamed to death ofc), and what you know, its not even beta and its already looking that way.
You claim it caters to both, but it clearly does not. How does your system of disruptive gameplay and broken immersion cater to the people who want to enjoy the gaming experience itself? It does not, so stop pretending to speak for a crowd you simply know nothing about.
Cheers,
SmashBoy (laughs, knowing TPPK is dying)
It isn't broken and I say to you "If it isn't broken don't fix it".
The way you talk gives off the impression that pking happens at every single game, every run.
Not sure how D2 is this days, but back them... i had what, 1 pk every 40 games/runs or so, and i was a addicted player for more than 2 years, i dont think that ''pk ruins runs'' is a valid statement, and in my view, not even blizzard has a valid argument to remove it.
Yeah it sucks to get griefed(to grief, feels awesome ), but imo pking didnt happen so regurlary in D2 to the point of turning itself an issue in D3.
You're right, and I apologize if I gave the impression that it happens every run... but the fact of the matter is, it hinders others' gameplay, no matter if it happens once a minute, or once an hour, per person. Why allow something that is only fun to a select few that take advantage of an aspect on a game designed for enjoyment for all who desire it? I don't think the old adage of "Fight fire with fire" really works here. WoW's credo is "Gank and Gank alike"... lets not let that spill over to D3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Stop using the excuse that you arn't able to play @ the calibur of an elite player.
Oh my pardons good sir, I did not realize you sitting in your computer chair killing low levels in a surprise attack while eating hot pockets made you a "elite player". :rolleyes:
Stop using the excuse that you arn't able to play @ the calibur of an elite player.
Elite player? As far as I know, griefing's hit and run, or camp a corpse to maintain full advantage techniques are hardly of any honor or value, and doesn't make an elite player.... just a person who exploits a weakness in the game to provide cheap thrills at the cost of another person's positive gaming experience
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
------------------------------------------- Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
If only you children could see yourselves as us adults see you now. How pathetic it is that you actually think it a good idea for a high level to PK a low level? That is just sad and pathetic.
I really loved Timaah's response...pretty much sums up there argument well:
Wow, how freaking clueless does one have to be to figure this one out. I guess I actually need to explain this, which is kind of sad. Holding your own...so your argument is a lvl 10 is suppose to hold their own against a lvl 95? LMAO! I have to ask? Do you just plain suck Baals at games so badly you need such a unfair disadvantage? There is absolutely no difference when a high level goes after a low level and when one uses a hack to PvP against a similar level.
This is NOT skill, and anyone who even tries to argue that it is, well I can assure they are someone that gets owned 110% in every FPS game. Maybe that is why they want to come to D2 and PK maybe? Maybe you should find another avenue to vent your inadequacy in games...just a thought
I have a better suggestion, maybe some should try and learn how to play a video game, they are not that hard.
And I would love it? You got to be high or something. Sorry, I am a mature well-adjusted adult, meaning picking on people and deriving my pleasure form other's griefs is NOT my cup of tea mate. If that is how misfit 12 year olds want to play, then fine. But not in OUR game. You want to kill other players, go play COD4 (where I will obviously own your sorry @$$ seeing as you all pretty much have shown to have no skills)
Plain and simple argument kiddies. High level Pking low level is NOT skill, does not take brains, nor any abilities what so ever. It is the action of pathetic and sad losers. If you want to join that crowd, so be it. But you are NOT going to be doing it in D3..so ADIOS, GOODBYE, AU REVOIR. D3 doesn't need to be filled with a bunch of dumb little kids.
Lol I love to PK although I would never waste my time on trivial players especially ones @ a much lower level then I. Actually I believe it to take skill especially when you PK 3 or odd people alone some what close or higher then you are.
You seem to believe the only people that love to PK are Kids/Hackers and those which only go after who they are 100% sure they can take out.
Then I guess you would be a moron but by your post I figured that out pretty quick.
Interesting post, but uh... what about people like me, who mainly just want to do PvE? I'd probably play some PvP, it's fun, but I'm not very competitive when it comes to Diablo, I just kill stuff to get cool items... but then again, I can't be killed instantly, right? So if somebody attacks me, I just have to survive until I get to town, and I can use as much pot as I want. So... pk is fine with me, I think.
Cool but you might wanna edit your "fantasy 5".
The Paladin will make a return as one of the 3 remaining classes under that class name or not he will be there.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Anyone who joins a game is subjecting themselves to this competition though. The competition is inherent to the game. More so in HC mode. It's like going into a counter-strike game and demanding that everybody use knives... and then when someone kills you with a gun, saying that you weren't willing to engage in a gun fight so they are doing something wrong. If you are familiar with CS, you will know what I mean.
So by joining a public game you are automatically throwing yourself into a potential PvP environment.
There is no competition in a PvP game if people could chose who whey are imune to. This only works in PvE oriented games, which D2 is most definitely not, and D3 wiill also probably be quite shallow in terms of PvE in comparison to MMO's like WoW.
It's NOT a PvP game... it turned into that. They want to refocus the game on cooperative play.
PvP was meant as a side attraction, not a main event. It still pretty much is. I'd say 40% bought Diablo for PvP and a even smaller 10% of that 40% play it for PKing.
This is supported by the fact the game actually has a storyline, long and extensive lore, plenty of items to loot from monsters and bosses and NOTHING to gain from killing people except gold, which you drop gold whether you die by a monster or a player.
It is actually not like that at all. There isn't a large section of counter-strike that can be played without killing other players. The game is based ENTIRELY around conflict with other players. Diablo 2 is not, there is an extensive PvM portion of the game that has had much more effort put into it than the PvP aspect. The games are entirely different, and beyond comparison. You tell people they cannot compare Diablo 2 with any other game when they try to make a point, but you endlessly compare it to games that have very few if any similarities to Diablo 2. You're choosing to selectively pick aspects of the games and use that as support for your argument. "You can kill people in D2, you kill people in CS: Ta-da! It's like the same game."
Just because you choose to ignore the PvM aspect of Diablo 2 does not mean that everyone does.
Exactly, Blizzard is not removing pk from the game because of ''it's they're game bullshit'' they are doing it because a considerable amount of the player base dislike getting griefed.
There's no such thing as ''its mine, i do it my way'', Blizzard take they're fan suggestions serious, and if enough people think that pk(or cartoonish graphics) are a nono them that's the way it's going to be.
ps: I love pk and the new graphics, but i'l trade pk for a deep pvp system anytime, anyday.
Hopefully they do PvP justice somehow. I do enjoy PvP just not so much PK.
Question: Which should have a louder voice? One person or seven people?
And one thing that REALLY pisses me off, I get to hell and get into a really good Baal run, over and over, then a PK'er comes along and kills everyone and follows the runs, thus ending the run series.
Now, there isn't any competition about that...
By allowing a full-on PK system (or Griefing), you remove elements of low to mid game by allowing the camping // griefing // and terrorizing of players who are attempting to play the game at a normal and enjoyable pace. I understand there may be a "challenge" involved in running and hiding from, or preparing for someone who is decked out in gear they've worked hard for.... like some "uber-boss"... but lets face it... most true PvPers prefer an even playing field against equal-skilled players, not "Suprise! I killed you while you were trying to kill Baal.... and now you can't finish this run". I feel there is no real honor in PKing.
And while we're on the subject, PvP is much different than PK. Player Killing implies one-sided, oft overpowered and indiscriminate, killing based solely on the idea of "preying on the weak". PvP, however, implies an equal footing, skill versus skill, matchup against two players. Never should those two be associated with each other.
That's my 2gp at least.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
You don't have to be biased with WoW, nothing can compare with that game. WoW is the best MMORPG game in history @ this point in time. Another picture here WoW is mainstream AoC is not. That game is just another Guild Wars or something lame in comparison.
"pro-PK children" that was kinda funny noticing your name and all. To you I say MAN up and take it or stop bitching.
Yes because people should be forced to take things they don't like, even if it's completely avoidable. :rolleyes:
The way you talk gives off the impression that pking happens at every single game, every run.
Not sure how D2 is this days, but back them... i had what, 1 pk every 40 games/runs or so, and i was a addicted player for more than 2 years, i dont think that ''pk ruins runs'' is a valid statement, and in my view, not even blizzard has a valid argument to remove it.
Yeah it sucks to get griefed(to grief, feels awesome ), but imo pking didnt happen so regurlary in D2 to the point of turning itself an issue in D3.
It isn't broken and I say to you "If it isn't broken don't fix it".
L2PLY
Stop using the excuse that you arn't able to play @ the calibur of an elite player.
You're right, and I apologize if I gave the impression that it happens every run... but the fact of the matter is, it hinders others' gameplay, no matter if it happens once a minute, or once an hour, per person. Why allow something that is only fun to a select few that take advantage of an aspect on a game designed for enjoyment for all who desire it? I don't think the old adage of "Fight fire with fire" really works here. WoW's credo is "Gank and Gank alike"... lets not let that spill over to D3.
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Oh my pardons good sir, I did not realize you sitting in your computer chair killing low levels in a surprise attack while eating hot pockets made you a "elite player". :rolleyes:
Elite player? As far as I know, griefing's hit and run, or camp a corpse to maintain full advantage techniques are hardly of any honor or value, and doesn't make an elite player.... just a person who exploits a weakness in the game to provide cheap thrills at the cost of another person's positive gaming experience
-------------------------------------------
Those who stand for nothing will fall for anything.
-------------------------------------------
Lol I love to PK although I would never waste my time on trivial players especially ones @ a much lower level then I. Actually I believe it to take skill especially when you PK 3 or odd people alone some what close or higher then you are.
You seem to believe the only people that love to PK are Kids/Hackers and those which only go after who they are 100% sure they can take out.
Then I guess you would be a moron but by your post I figured that out pretty quick.
Well I'm glad to enlighten you, your welcome.
Cool but you might wanna edit your "fantasy 5".
The Paladin will make a return as one of the 3 remaining classes under that class name or not he will be there.