Hey guys , I Was wondering how the monster HP and XP gear changes will effect the paragon farming methods come 2.4.
Are we still going to have support builds with 2 dpsers or will it be 1 supp+3 dps or do you think we will ever find ourselves in a position that solo farming will be the way to go?
I couldn't get into ptr due to not having much free time these days so any input from the testing guys would be appreciated.
XP change is great in my opinion because now everyone, including supports, can focus on gear optimization instead of xp and simply try to do higher GRs more efficiently to compensate for the measly few % a xp build will give. Now an xp build of 200% bonus exp will result in 20% which will be divided 4 ways so 5% only per player instead of 50% previously. A ruby in a helm will result in only 1% bonus exp per player now; it's just not worth it anymore. Simply doing one GR higher due to more optimized gear will more than compensate for this change due to the changes in the system.
4 dps seems unlikely except for speed GRs where survivability doesn't matter. Maybe we'll see more hybrid balanced characters pop up. Maybe a standard 1 support / 3 dps or 1 support + 1 balanced + 2 dps or something...
1-2 sup + 2-3 dps I guess will be optimal still. However, I think hybrid support/dps will be more common, for instance monks with Epiphany: Soothing Mist for healing doesn't gimp you in the same way as Mantra of Healing does live. As long as you have high AS and 75% CDR you can roll with whatever stats you prefer. You'll still not do tons of damage but you'll do way, way more than a zDPS.
Could be possible utility will be spread on everyone in the group as well, but I think 1-2 characters focusing on utility/support will be more effective.
The best experience bang for your buck in non-grift play is probably gearing where gold=experience... so an avarice ring with ranked up boon of hoarder and custerian bracers (goldwrap if you need toughness, goldskin chest maybe), etc. switched out for high dps/defense gear in grifts.
And it helps to make tons of gold so you can keep spending it on empowered grifts..
So far, group play still seems to be the way to go for loot/exp. I'm guessing the game will always be geared towards group play over solo.
Edit: btw gearing this way will give you the gold conquest/seasonal journey thing pretty quickly
for the best xp/hour for the masses it will be T10 regular rifts, as for Grifts specifically it will come down to what you and your party can handle as the highest tier GR and how fast you can reliably clear that tier.
I've tested PTR a long time and normal rifts will give less xp than bounties due to the new xp buff from massacres not applying in rifts, but grifts 60+ are still the way to go.
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Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
It's just going to be doing the highest gr tier your group can do effectively, people won't necessarily be using xp gear anymore so they will try to gear their characters as best they can to farm the highest gr's they can without the risk of "failing" a gr. I think groups will still be using a support barb to provide ignore pain and some pulling/crowd control abilities along with other group buffs.
I'm guessing there'll still be at least one support, probably crusader for long distance elite movement. Assuming everyone does equal damage, having a support sader adds more to the 3 dps than having a 4th dps would provide
XP change is great in my opinion because now everyone, including supports, can focus on gear optimization instead of xp and simply try to do higher GRs more efficiently to compensate for the measly few % a xp build will give. Now an xp build of 200% bonus exp will result in 20% which will be divided 4 ways so 5% only per player instead of 50% previously. A ruby in a helm will result in only 1% bonus exp per player now; it's just not worth it anymore. Simply doing one GR higher due to more optimized gear will more than compensate for this change due to the changes in the system.
4 dps seems unlikely except for speed GRs where survivability doesn't matter. Maybe we'll see more hybrid balanced characters pop up. Maybe a standard 1 support / 3 dps or 1 support + 1 balanced + 2 dps or something...
its all relative. it doesnt matter if the xp Gear was nerfed by a factor of a million. As long as it exists and it provides a bonus relative to gear that has 0 of the bonuses, those % become even more poweful. Thats all the botters and nerds do is farm GR so yes XP gear will still be present so they can chase para 4,000-5,000
XP change is great in my opinion because now everyone, including supports, can focus on gear optimization instead of xp and simply try to do higher GRs more efficiently to compensate for the measly few % a xp build will give. Now an xp build of 200% bonus exp will result in 20% which will be divided 4 ways so 5% only per player instead of 50% previously. A ruby in a helm will result in only 1% bonus exp per player now; it's just not worth it anymore. Simply doing one GR higher due to more optimized gear will more than compensate for this change due to the changes in the system.
4 dps seems unlikely except for speed GRs where survivability doesn't matter. Maybe we'll see more hybrid balanced characters pop up. Maybe a standard 1 support / 3 dps or 1 support + 1 balanced + 2 dps or something...
its all relative. it doesnt matter if the xp Gear was nerfed by a factor of a million. As long as it exists and it provides a bonus relative to gear that has 0 of the bonuses, those % become even more poweful. Thats all the botters and nerds do is farm GR so yes XP gear will still be present so they can chase para 4,000-5,000
not sure I agree with your logic. the XP focused gear most likely will mean the effective GR level you can push goes down (either for reasons of surviveability or dps) so that the net result is you earn less xp with the xp gear. In my opinion it has become a pointless, and therefore wasted stat. Maybe they should have dumped it altogether and created a new secondary to replace it. I'm thinking Life Per Second with a red gem in helmet would be a whole lot more meaningful than 4% xp, especially since the healer monk has also been nerfed into the ground.
Hey guys , I Was wondering how the monster HP and XP gear changes will effect the paragon farming methods come 2.4.
Are we still going to have support builds with 2 dpsers or will it be 1 supp+3 dps or do you think we will ever find ourselves in a position that solo farming will be the way to go?
I couldn't get into ptr due to not having much free time these days so any input from the testing guys would be appreciated.
Thnx
Blizz intrinsically removed the XP bonus from gear so people would not "farm paragon".
Basically, they want you to farm rifts and bounties instead of farming paragon.
So to answer your question, people will not be "farming paragon" they will instead be farming gear, mats, GR levels, and get XP along the way like it is meant to be.
XP change is great in my opinion because now everyone, including supports, can focus on gear optimization instead of xp and simply try to do higher GRs more efficiently to compensate for the measly few % a xp build will give. Now an xp build of 200% bonus exp will result in 20% which will be divided 4 ways so 5% only per player instead of 50% previously. A ruby in a helm will result in only 1% bonus exp per player now; it's just not worth it anymore. Simply doing one GR higher due to more optimized gear will more than compensate for this change due to the changes in the system.
4 dps seems unlikely except for speed GRs where survivability doesn't matter. Maybe we'll see more hybrid balanced characters pop up. Maybe a standard 1 support / 3 dps or 1 support + 1 balanced + 2 dps or something...
its all relative. it doesnt matter if the xp Gear was nerfed by a factor of a million. As long as it exists and it provides a bonus relative to gear that has 0 of the bonuses, those % become even more poweful. Thats all the botters and nerds do is farm GR so yes XP gear will still be present so they can chase para 4,000-5,000
not sure I agree with your logic. the XP focused gear most likely will mean the effective GR level you can push goes down (either for reasons of surviveability or dps) so that the net result is you earn less xp with the xp gear. In my opinion it has become a pointless, and therefore wasted stat. Maybe they should have dumped it altogether and created a new secondary to replace it. I'm thinking Life Per Second with a red gem in helmet would be a whole lot more meaningful than 4% xp, especially since the healer monk has also been nerfed into the ground.
sounds like you don't have any experience endgame or realize that they are already clearing GR 90s pre 2.4 which is when there will be even more damage done in groups and allow for even more XP gear to be used. Atm the game is only 1 dps and 3 XP supp....LOL and it will stay that way FOREVER AS LONG AS XP GEAR EXISTS....xp is the most powerful stat in the game > all else easily
Hey guys , I Was wondering how the monster HP and XP gear changes will effect the paragon farming methods come 2.4.
Are we still going to have support builds with 2 dpsers or will it be 1 supp+3 dps or do you think we will ever find ourselves in a position that solo farming will be the way to go?
I couldn't get into ptr due to not having much free time these days so any input from the testing guys would be appreciated.
Thnx
Blizz intrinsically removed the XP bonus from gear so people would not "farm paragon".
Basically, they want you to farm rifts and bounties instead of farming paragon.
So to answer your question, people will not be "farming paragon" they will instead be farming gear, mats, GR levels, and get XP along the way like it is meant to be.
since when does anything surpass the xp earned in GR80s speed farm?
XP change is great in my opinion because now everyone, including supports, can focus on gear optimization instead of xp and simply try to do higher GRs more efficiently to compensate for the measly few % a xp build will give. Now an xp build of 200% bonus exp will result in 20% which will be divided 4 ways so 5% only per player instead of 50% previously. A ruby in a helm will result in only 1% bonus exp per player now; it's just not worth it anymore. Simply doing one GR higher due to more optimized gear will more than compensate for this change due to the changes in the system.
4 dps seems unlikely except for speed GRs where survivability doesn't matter. Maybe we'll see more hybrid balanced characters pop up. Maybe a standard 1 support / 3 dps or 1 support + 1 balanced + 2 dps or something...
its all relative. it doesnt matter if the xp Gear was nerfed by a factor of a million. As long as it exists and it provides a bonus relative to gear that has 0 of the bonuses, those % become even more poweful. Thats all the botters and nerds do is farm GR so yes XP gear will still be present so they can chase para 4,000-5,000
not sure I agree with your logic. the XP focused gear most likely will mean the effective GR level you can push goes down (either for reasons of surviveability or dps) so that the net result is you earn less xp with the xp gear. In my opinion it has become a pointless, and therefore wasted stat. Maybe they should have dumped it altogether and created a new secondary to replace it. I'm thinking Life Per Second with a red gem in helmet would be a whole lot more meaningful than 4% xp, especially since the healer monk has also been nerfed into the ground.
sounds like you don't have any experience endgame or realize that they are already clearing GR 90s pre 2.4 which is when there will be even more damage done in groups and allow for even more XP gear to be used. Atm the game is only 1 dps and 3 XP supp....LOL and it will stay that way FOREVER AS LONG AS XP GEAR EXISTS....xp is the most powerful stat in the game > all else easily
Sounds to me like you have trouble with basic logic. When the xp gear bonus is nerfed to the level that is being detailed for patch 2.4 it is the GR level you can push effectively, not the xp bonus on your gear that is going to dictate how much xp you get per time spent getting it. A stat with +Xp on it is therefore not as valuable as a stat that offres more toughness or dps. If you can't understand the ratiionale in that, I guess you may as well just join the flat earth society.
Hey guys , I Was wondering how the monster HP and XP gear changes will effect the paragon farming methods come 2.4.
Are we still going to have support builds with 2 dpsers or will it be 1 supp+3 dps or do you think we will ever find ourselves in a position that solo farming will be the way to go?
I couldn't get into ptr due to not having much free time these days so any input from the testing guys would be appreciated.
Thnx
Blizz intrinsically removed the XP bonus from gear so people would not "farm paragon".
Basically, they want you to farm rifts and bounties instead of farming paragon.
So to answer your question, people will not be "farming paragon" they will instead be farming gear, mats, GR levels, and get XP along the way like it is meant to be.
since when does anything surpass the xp earned in GR80s speed farm?
So you are speed farming GR80's atm? Didn't think so, takes about 12-14 min per clear for the best of the best. Thing is, the players speed farming GR50 week one were speed farming 30 on day one with XP gear, giving them 800+ para in a few days. That will not happen in S5, xp gains in S5 will be much more like S1-2 were. Just where it should be.
*As of right now GR62 speed runs would give equal XP gains per hour as most people can run 3 GR62 in the same amount of time as 1 GR80 if geared, why deal with the hastle?
People need to take a step back before this loses its focus.
Hear is a summary:
1- Season 4, week 1, several players already Para 800
2- Why? Because XP gear, two players ran Zdps or support and they would simply grind GR's for multiplicative XP.
3- Season 5, no xp gear will be beneficial at 70.
4- Effect? Players will not be Para 800 within a few days because they will not be gaining multiplicative XP gains off that XP gear.
End Result, we are likely going to see Paragon levels that compare to season 3 when you factor the XP gear removal but addition of a higher power level.
Answer to OP's post:
Everything, players will do what they did in season 1, 2, and 3. They will farm rifts, bounties, and GR to push.
So you are speed farming GR80's atm? Didn't think so, takes about 12-14 min per clear for the best of the best. Thing is, the players speed farming GR50 week one were speed farming 30 on day one with XP gear, giving them 800+ para in a few days. That will not happen in S5, xp gains in S5 will be much more like S1-2 were. Just where it should be.
*As of right now GR62 speed runs would give equal XP gains per hour as most people can run 3 GR62 in the same amount of time as 1 GR80 if geared, why deal with the hastle?
Just to make sure this discussion is being held with the right assumptions, yes people are speedfarming around GR 82-84 no boss in around 5-8 min average, getting around 600-800b XP per hour. With the incredible powercreep we are going to see next patch (30-40% from Caldesann's Despair alone, not even counting any of the newly added sets, items or additive damage bonuses) and the fact that we can now run 4 dps without any XP gear (even supports will probably run some LoN builds or something), we are probably going to speedfarm around tier 95+ after a couple weeks next season (perhaps even including RG if bosskillers like S6 / Carnevil make it into the groups). In any case, it would be a very weird move for Blizzard to reduce our power level or farming speed, something that has never happened in the past and would screw over nonseason players anyway. I'd expect similar or slightly higher XP/h numbers than we have now (probably passing the 1t/h once we have optimized setups).
XP change is great in my opinion because now everyone, including supports, can focus on gear optimization instead of xp and simply try to do higher GRs more efficiently to compensate for the measly few % a xp build will give. Now an xp build of 200% bonus exp will result in 20% which will be divided 4 ways so 5% only per player instead of 50% previously. A ruby in a helm will result in only 1% bonus exp per player now; it's just not worth it anymore. Simply doing one GR higher due to more optimized gear will more than compensate for this change due to the changes in the system.
4 dps seems unlikely except for speed GRs where survivability doesn't matter. Maybe we'll see more hybrid balanced characters pop up. Maybe a standard 1 support / 3 dps or 1 support + 1 balanced + 2 dps or something...
its all relative. it doesnt matter if the xp Gear was nerfed by a factor of a million. As long as it exists and it provides a bonus relative to gear that has 0 of the bonuses, those % become even more poweful. Thats all the botters and nerds do is farm GR so yes XP gear will still be present so they can chase para 4,000-5,000
not sure I agree with your logic. the XP focused gear most likely will mean the effective GR level you can push goes down (either for reasons of surviveability or dps) so that the net result is you earn less xp with the xp gear. In my opinion it has become a pointless, and therefore wasted stat. Maybe they should have dumped it altogether and created a new secondary to replace it. I'm thinking Life Per Second with a red gem in helmet would be a whole lot more meaningful than 4% xp, especially since the healer monk has also been nerfed into the ground.
sounds like you don't have any experience endgame or realize that they are already clearing GR 90s pre 2.4 which is when there will be even more damage done in groups and allow for even more XP gear to be used. Atm the game is only 1 dps and 3 XP supp....LOL and it will stay that way FOREVER AS LONG AS XP GEAR EXISTS....xp is the most powerful stat in the game > all else easily
Sounds to me like you have trouble with basic logic. When the xp gear bonus is nerfed to the level that is being detailed for patch 2.4 it is the GR level you can push effectively, not the xp bonus on your gear that is going to dictate how much xp you get per time spent getting it. A stat with +Xp on it is therefore not as valuable as a stat that offres more toughness or dps. If you can't understand the ratiionale in that, I guess you may as well just join the flat earth society.
IDK if you ever played D3, sounds like not? But the higher GR lvl the more XP you get....by a lot. GR 70s and 80s give hundreds of billions and trillions of xp/hr. More than any bounty or rift. Changing the values of xp gear wont matter as long as they exist they will be required by farmers.
People need to take a step back before this loses its focus.
Hear is a summary:
1- Season 4, week 1, several players already Para 800
2- Why? Because XP gear, two players ran Zdps or support and they would simply grind GR's for multiplicative XP.
3- Season 5, no xp gear will be beneficial at 70.
4- Effect? Players will not be Para 800 within a few days because they will not be gaining multiplicative XP gains off that XP gear.
End Result, we are likely going to see Paragon levels that compare to season 3 when you factor the XP gear removal but addition of a higher power level.
Answer to OP's post:
Everything, players will do what they did in season 1, 2, and 3. They will farm rifts, bounties, and GR to push.
all wrong. xp and power increases every season. gear gets better every season. more chinaman going for paragon 3100+ every season blowing away even the nerdiest American and euro botters and farmers. just watch. its called REAPER OF SOU:LS for a reason, LOL
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Hey guys , I Was wondering how the monster HP and XP gear changes will effect the paragon farming methods come 2.4.
Are we still going to have support builds with 2 dpsers or will it be 1 supp+3 dps or do you think we will ever find ourselves in a position that solo farming will be the way to go?
I couldn't get into ptr due to not having much free time these days so any input from the testing guys would be appreciated.
Thnx
Either 1 support and 3 dps's pushing as high as possible or even (dare i say it) 4 dps's.
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
XP change is great in my opinion because now everyone, including supports, can focus on gear optimization instead of xp and simply try to do higher GRs more efficiently to compensate for the measly few % a xp build will give. Now an xp build of 200% bonus exp will result in 20% which will be divided 4 ways so 5% only per player instead of 50% previously. A ruby in a helm will result in only 1% bonus exp per player now; it's just not worth it anymore. Simply doing one GR higher due to more optimized gear will more than compensate for this change due to the changes in the system.
4 dps seems unlikely except for speed GRs where survivability doesn't matter. Maybe we'll see more hybrid balanced characters pop up. Maybe a standard 1 support / 3 dps or 1 support + 1 balanced + 2 dps or something...
1-2 sup + 2-3 dps I guess will be optimal still. However, I think hybrid support/dps will be more common, for instance monks with Epiphany: Soothing Mist for healing doesn't gimp you in the same way as Mantra of Healing does live. As long as you have high AS and 75% CDR you can roll with whatever stats you prefer. You'll still not do tons of damage but you'll do way, way more than a zDPS.
Could be possible utility will be spread on everyone in the group as well, but I think 1-2 characters focusing on utility/support will be more effective.
The best experience bang for your buck in non-grift play is probably gearing where gold=experience... so an avarice ring with ranked up boon of hoarder and custerian bracers (goldwrap if you need toughness, goldskin chest maybe), etc. switched out for high dps/defense gear in grifts.
And it helps to make tons of gold so you can keep spending it on empowered grifts..
So far, group play still seems to be the way to go for loot/exp. I'm guessing the game will always be geared towards group play over solo.
Edit: btw gearing this way will give you the gold conquest/seasonal journey thing pretty quickly
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Last edited by HuckleberryPhlegm: 2 hours from now
for the best xp/hour for the masses it will be T10 regular rifts, as for Grifts specifically it will come down to what you and your party can handle as the highest tier GR and how fast you can reliably clear that tier.
I've tested PTR a long time and normal rifts will give less xp than bounties due to the new xp buff from massacres not applying in rifts, but grifts 60+ are still the way to go.
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
It's just going to be doing the highest gr tier your group can do effectively, people won't necessarily be using xp gear anymore so they will try to gear their characters as best they can to farm the highest gr's they can without the risk of "failing" a gr. I think groups will still be using a support barb to provide ignore pain and some pulling/crowd control abilities along with other group buffs.
I'm guessing there'll still be at least one support, probably crusader for long distance elite movement. Assuming everyone does equal damage, having a support sader adds more to the 3 dps than having a 4th dps would provide
Blizz intrinsically removed the XP bonus from gear so people would not "farm paragon".
Basically, they want you to farm rifts and bounties instead of farming paragon.
So to answer your question, people will not be "farming paragon" they will instead be farming gear, mats, GR levels, and get XP along the way like it is meant to be.
*As of right now GR62 speed runs would give equal XP gains per hour as most people can run 3 GR62 in the same amount of time as 1 GR80 if geared, why deal with the hastle?
People need to take a step back before this loses its focus.
Hear is a summary:
1- Season 4, week 1, several players already Para 800
2- Why? Because XP gear, two players ran Zdps or support and they would simply grind GR's for multiplicative XP.
3- Season 5, no xp gear will be beneficial at 70.
4- Effect? Players will not be Para 800 within a few days because they will not be gaining multiplicative XP gains off that XP gear.
End Result, we are likely going to see Paragon levels that compare to season 3 when you factor the XP gear removal but addition of a higher power level.
Answer to OP's post:
Everything, players will do what they did in season 1, 2, and 3. They will farm rifts, bounties, and GR to push.
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