You're not following.
What I meant was: if you're totally fine with all your gear being AH-bought, then you'd be totally fine if all your drops were gold, of varying amounts. So instead of an item worth 100M that you would then sell, a gold pile of 100M would drop. What's the point in having loot, if you're gonna sell it all and buy all your gear? Just have different piles of gold drop for you: 10k, 2k, 1M, 500k, etc.
The sad thing is that this would actually be much better than how things are now. There would be no time wasted picking up, iding and pricing items, worrying that you might mis-value an item and either salvage it or list it too low, or wasted time listing and relisting items. I'm not advocating this approach, but it does highlight how bad the current loot situation is.
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...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
The sad thing is that this would actually be much better than how things are now. There would be no time wasted picking up, iding and pricing items, worrying that you might mis-value an item and either salvage it or list it too low, or wasted time listing and relisting items. I'm not advocating this approach, but it does highlight how bad the current loot situation is.
How's the stuff you're talking about highlighting the "current loot situation"? The complaints are about the streamlined loot - there's just a couple of useful affixes and most of the others are crap. Fixing the current loot situation, for example by adding more interesting affixes or make the existing "bad" affixes more appealing as it was proposed in the recent dev journal, would make this process (recognize a valuable item) even more difficult.
I think all this is just proof how much the AH poisoned players' mind. It's not anymore about "let's identify this item... oh, this is really useful for me!", it's just about "oh, let's identify this item and see how much $$$ it could give me".
The sad thing is that this would actually be much better than how things are now. There would be no time wasted picking up, iding and pricing items, worrying that you might mis-value an item and either salvage it or list it too low, or wasted time listing and relisting items. I'm not advocating this approach, but it does highlight how bad the current loot situation is.
How's the stuff you're talking about highlighting the "current loot situation"? The complaints are about the streamlined loot - there's just a couple of useful affixes and most of the others are crap. Fixing the current loot situation, for example by adding more interesting affixes or make the existing "bad" affixes more appealing as it was proposed in the recent dev journal, would make this process (recognize a valuable item) even more difficult.
I think all this is just proof how much the AH poisoned players' mind. It's not anymore about "let's identify this item... oh, this is really useful for me!", it's just about "oh, let's identify this item and see how much $$$ it could give me".
What are you talking about? This whole page of posts is about the AH and it's affect on how one gears up a character, which is what I'm responding to. Granted, that's only one portion of the broader itemization problems, including affixes not being useful which I've given my thoughts on elsewhere, but I fail to see how that somehow invalidates my point.
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...and if you disagree with me, you're probably <insert random ad hominem attack here>.
yes like it was all day from the beginning of d2 with the start of d2jsp and something like that...but most ppl dont know 3rdpartysites like this in there early d2 time and when they dont know them this sites dont exist.
and if u dont know the "best" players (in d2) you are happy with what you have. cuz new ladder comes 3 days later top 10 players got BiS cap chars lvl100...all are boters dupers and traiders(the buy Foren Gold for cash and the items like the RMAH ). and now we have the same in d3 with less boters and less dupers...and traiding was always a big part of diablo and if u disagree with that think about this: its ok that you have a different opinion and in this turn then its ok that someone have a different opinion then you. no one wants to convince you you have your opinion and that is good
back on topic:
like tanis0 says the probs are the less affixes and not the AH if there is a possibility to give an other player an item there will always be an AH (3rd party sites) some ppl they use cash to get better gear and at lest always an economy! and the only people who do not see this are naive or dont know anything beyond the diablo menu...
We had a long discussion about how much D2 was a trading game and so on, I can't find it right now but bottom line it's a fact that many people never used public trading in D2, whereas in D3 the auction house is "right in your face". There's absolutely no point in denying this as this has been mentioned by Blizzard several times - the AH in D3 is just a nice shortcut, buying a cheap low-level item on the AH is faster than farming/crafting, whereas in D2 there was always a somewhat cumbersome and at times dangerous process involved when trading items.
Anyways, to your "back on topic" bit, Travis just posted that the dev team is talking about getting the players back to "play the game" rather than "play the AH", so saying "the AH is not a problem" is just wrong. I completely agree that everyone should be entitled to their own opinion, so I'm not gonna argue with you how much of a trading game Diablo is (even though I could tell you that senior game designer Andrew Chambers said that Diablo is not based on trading). But the game designers consider the AH to be a problem, which is addressed in the last paragraph of Travis's dev journal. He also talks about existing affixes becoming more interesting or new affixes making items more interesting. But that's a different point in his article.
What all this is about, and what maka also pointed out in post #48, is just supporting what the D3 devs think anyways:
Whenever we talk about what the fantasy of Diablo is and what we want the core gameplay to be, never do we say “we want players to farm gold and go buy items off the auction house”. The AH definitely has made an impact on Diablo 3 and we talk about it constantly, but our conversations are usually in the context of “how can we get players to find their own loot instead of just buying it”.
The large, overwhelming majority of D2 players never even touched bnet, and played SP and LAN, so you saying "trading was always a big part of D2" is not (strictly) true; SP was a much, much larger part.
Not that I disbelieve you, but I basically disbelieve anything on the internet that isn't cited.
Do you have a citation for this? It seems like a pretty pivotal part of the point your trying to make, and a citation would go a long way towards making that point.
Anyways, to your "back on topic" bit, Travis just posted that the dev team is talking about getting the players back to "play the game" rather than "play the AH", so saying "the AH is not a problem" is just wrong.
One thing I'd like to point out is that Travis made it PATENTLY clear that they don't believe that sitting in trade chat spamming "WTS/WTB" shit is the right direction - that they think the D2 method is NOT the solution. They clearly want to de-emphasize the AH, which is something that I COMPLETELY agree with. But they don't want to take the mechanism for trading and throw it back to the stone age. This kind of middle ground is *exactly* what we need.
I don't want to HAVE to go to the AH for gear, but I don't want to HAVE to suffer through trade chat to sell items that I don't personally want but which have value to other players. I want options. It's clear that Blizzard wants us to have options too, and I can't express how happy I am with that particular stance.
I mean, the way I look at it is, if I have a "perfect" pair of Lacunis and I find one that's still really high-end, and none of my alts need it (LAWL AS IF!) I still want the ability to capitalize on it, to monetize it (to spend that gold on other things which they hinted they're going to put in)... and to do so without a massive infringement on being able to slaughter more monsters. I think that's a pretty legitemate desire, but that is admittedly coming from someone whose AH interactions are 95%+ sales and a rather small amount of purchases.
Not that I disbelieve you, but I basically disbelieve anything on the internet that isn't cited.
Do you have a citation for this? It seems like a pretty pivotal part of the point your trying to make, and a citation would go a long way towards making that point.
While I wouldn't be able to cite anything D2 related, I could dig up numerous developer posts about a number of differnt games saying the portion of people signing up online is <10% and actually using online functionality <5%.
EDIT: actually I'm sure there was blue post back around the time of the beta stating that <5% people played D2 online, wouldn't be able to dig it up now though.
The AH didnt ruin the game it was assholes running bot programs like Deckard Coin 24/7 and sniping and reselling items that ruined it. Or people running max gold find and botting that cellar in Act 1 24/7. Also the fact Blizzard never did anything about it ruined it. They just let it spiral out of control for the first few months of the game. So by the time they decided to "fix" things all the cheaters had 100s of millions of gold and the rest of us had jack shit. So basically now all the good stuff is so expensive the only way to afford it is if you cheated before everything was fixed or you buy gold.
While I wouldn't be able to cite anything D2 related, I could dig up numerous developer posts about a number of differnt games saying the portion of people signing up online is <10% and actually using online functionality <5%.
EDIT: actually I'm sure there was blue post back around the time of the beta stating that <5% people played D2 online, wouldn't be able to dig it up now though.
It's kinda moot point, though. Back then, far fewer people were online at all... whereas these days, the only question is 'how online are you?'... it's easy to forget how far gamer connectivity and the internet itself has come. The thing Blizzard was aiming to head off isn't D2's third-party item economy, it's the one that would have sprung up around D3. I don't think it's productive to try and discuss D3's AH as if it was a solution to D2's grey-market. The central problem is that any effective method Blizzard could use to try and throttle the GAH and RMAH would instantly induce the very thing those auction houses exist to prevent... including "no AH servers". You don't think those would become targets for gold-spam and trade-scamming?
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The sad thing is that this would actually be much better than how things are now. There would be no time wasted picking up, iding and pricing items, worrying that you might mis-value an item and either salvage it or list it too low, or wasted time listing and relisting items. I'm not advocating this approach, but it does highlight how bad the current loot situation is.
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ModeratorHow's the stuff you're talking about highlighting the "current loot situation"? The complaints are about the streamlined loot - there's just a couple of useful affixes and most of the others are crap. Fixing the current loot situation, for example by adding more interesting affixes or make the existing "bad" affixes more appealing as it was proposed in the recent dev journal, would make this process (recognize a valuable item) even more difficult.
I think all this is just proof how much the AH poisoned players' mind. It's not anymore about "let's identify this item... oh, this is really useful for me!", it's just about "oh, let's identify this item and see how much $$$ it could give me".
What are you talking about? This whole page of posts is about the AH and it's affect on how one gears up a character, which is what I'm responding to. Granted, that's only one portion of the broader itemization problems, including affixes not being useful which I've given my thoughts on elsewhere, but I fail to see how that somehow invalidates my point.
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ModeratorWe had a long discussion about how much D2 was a trading game and so on, I can't find it right now but bottom line it's a fact that many people never used public trading in D2, whereas in D3 the auction house is "right in your face". There's absolutely no point in denying this as this has been mentioned by Blizzard several times - the AH in D3 is just a nice shortcut, buying a cheap low-level item on the AH is faster than farming/crafting, whereas in D2 there was always a somewhat cumbersome and at times dangerous process involved when trading items.
Anyways, to your "back on topic" bit, Travis just posted that the dev team is talking about getting the players back to "play the game" rather than "play the AH", so saying "the AH is not a problem" is just wrong. I completely agree that everyone should be entitled to their own opinion, so I'm not gonna argue with you how much of a trading game Diablo is (even though I could tell you that senior game designer Andrew Chambers said that Diablo is not based on trading). But the game designers consider the AH to be a problem, which is addressed in the last paragraph of Travis's dev journal. He also talks about existing affixes becoming more interesting or new affixes making items more interesting. But that's a different point in his article.
What all this is about, and what maka also pointed out in post #48, is just supporting what the D3 devs think anyways:
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
Not that I disbelieve you, but I basically disbelieve anything on the internet that isn't cited.
Do you have a citation for this? It seems like a pretty pivotal part of the point your trying to make, and a citation would go a long way towards making that point.
One thing I'd like to point out is that Travis made it PATENTLY clear that they don't believe that sitting in trade chat spamming "WTS/WTB" shit is the right direction - that they think the D2 method is NOT the solution. They clearly want to de-emphasize the AH, which is something that I COMPLETELY agree with. But they don't want to take the mechanism for trading and throw it back to the stone age. This kind of middle ground is *exactly* what we need.
I don't want to HAVE to go to the AH for gear, but I don't want to HAVE to suffer through trade chat to sell items that I don't personally want but which have value to other players. I want options. It's clear that Blizzard wants us to have options too, and I can't express how happy I am with that particular stance.
I mean, the way I look at it is, if I have a "perfect" pair of Lacunis and I find one that's still really high-end, and none of my alts need it (LAWL AS IF!) I still want the ability to capitalize on it, to monetize it (to spend that gold on other things which they hinted they're going to put in)... and to do so without a massive infringement on being able to slaughter more monsters. I think that's a pretty legitemate desire, but that is admittedly coming from someone whose AH interactions are 95%+ sales and a rather small amount of purchases.
While I wouldn't be able to cite anything D2 related, I could dig up numerous developer posts about a number of differnt games saying the portion of people signing up online is <10% and actually using online functionality <5%.
EDIT: actually I'm sure there was blue post back around the time of the beta stating that <5% people played D2 online, wouldn't be able to dig it up now though.
It's kinda moot point, though. Back then, far fewer people were online at all... whereas these days, the only question is 'how online are you?'... it's easy to forget how far gamer connectivity and the internet itself has come. The thing Blizzard was aiming to head off isn't D2's third-party item economy, it's the one that would have sprung up around D3. I don't think it's productive to try and discuss D3's AH as if it was a solution to D2's grey-market. The central problem is that any effective method Blizzard could use to try and throttle the GAH and RMAH would instantly induce the very thing those auction houses exist to prevent... including "no AH servers". You don't think those would become targets for gold-spam and trade-scamming?