After the most recent changes (that have followed years and years of development) I feel like someone on the development team needs to step up and say, "This is our goal. We know what we want to do, now let's go out and make it happen."
Lately it seems to me that they are unsure of what they want, so it leads to things like this most recent "major overhaul".
At some point, someone has to take the reigns.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
This is about money, it's got nothing to do with making a good game.
I'm sure the RMAH is still meeting resistance in various countries.
There is just no hope for some people..
Indeed some people will just never learn.
But no, I strongly disagree with what you say Nastai. The only reason you feel this way is because they actually shared the whole development from the very beginning. This isn't much diffrent from how they make their other games. Those games have just not this much coverage on them.
So really it's more an issue of too much information. People can't understand that you wanna change something that is working, but sometimes that makes something truly great. Changing something 100% good, and making it 10% better. Iterational devolopment is just one of the best ways to get something really great out there.
This is about money, it's got nothing to do with making a good game.
I'm sure the RMAH is still meeting resistance in various countries.
There is just no hope for some people..
Indeed some people will just never learn.
But no, I strongly disagree with what you say Nastai. The only reason you feel this way is because they actually shared the whole development from the very beginning. This isn't much diffrent from how they make their other games. Those games have just not this much coverage on them.
So really it's more an issue of too much information. People can't understand that you wanna change something that is working, but sometimes that makes something truly great. Changing something 100% good, and making it 10% better. Iterational devolopment is just one of the best ways to get something really great out there.
I mainly agree. For the future, I hope Blizzard keeps us in the dark to be honest. That way, I don't have to read through pages upon pages with people voicing their opinion how Blizzard should do their job, or how they just wont stand for this and wont play the game etc. It gets old, really fast =(
I'd like people to understand how game development works... A lot of you complains about their change of direction. It's normal for game designers to change idea, even do 180 on ideas they said. It's in their nature of game design iteration, it happens in ALL the game. You should see the changes in game design that happened in the ME serie and Skyrim...
You might disagree with their changes, but it has nothing to do with the leader. Pointing what they want for a game is not as simple as to say I want my car color's to be black.
Often times they take a stand, then realize later after gameplay test and iteration that finally their idea wasn't so great due to various reasons. And those reasons are quantifiable... so they don't pull it out of their arses.
Yes, there's a chance to fall into over-iteration, but Diablo 3 is not in this phase yet. Yes it's long for Blizzard to release it, and a lot of you will say that they are over-iterating, but they know that if they release a game with system that players don't like, it will make the fans disappointed and they will say Blizzard botched a game.
If they take time, the fans will whine they make them wait.... In all the cases they are getting "attacked" by the fans.
Try to understand their position they want to make an awesome game. Even if they have to make you wait some months... The price to pay will be WAY less than the price to pay if they don't deliver the game with the quality we are expecting...
Also, for those who says Blizzard is only there for money and points to the RMAH. Do you really think a capitalism company in a capitalism country and society will skip the chance to add another source of revenue to their pocket? That's what we call capitalism. And for your information guys, developing a game costs A LOT more than it used to be. The cost increase over the years... And selling the game 50-60$ is not even enough for a lot of compagnies to make the game more profitable.
This is about money, it's got nothing to do with making a good game.
I'm sure the RMAH is still meeting resistance in various countries.
There is just no hope for some people..
So you CAN prove that RMAH has been approved globally and that the paypal functionality is working 100%? I mean i'm not 100% certain, but i'd love to see some proof beyond "a blue said so." Setting up a feature like this globally is a HUGE undertaking and it is what investors care about. This isn't conspiracy stuff, its simple economics.
The only other option is that the devs on this game are not very good at their job. You don't typically see companies give a definitive release window, only to change major feautres AFTER that window has come and gone...
But i'm crazy i guess. Anyways, link me to the info on these features being approved globally in countries that probably all have dramatically diverse legislation on such potential "gambling" issues.
I'm not going to waste my time spoon feeding you like a baby. South Korea was the only country where the RMAH was an issue, from a legal standpoint. From a functionality standpoint, I have no clue if the if the player -> RMAH -> Paypal transaction works or not.
But you claim it's all about the money, and not about making a good game, so you go do some research and let us all know when you find the truth.
Do you really think a capitalism company in a capitalism country and society will skip the chance to add another source of revenue to their pocket?
I think you miss the point. The issue is that IF (yes, i said if... none of us know definitively) this RMAH is the issue that has been delaying the game, they are lying to our faces and proving that MONEY>>>>>>>>>>>>pleasing your fans.
If this game was announced in 2010, we wouldn't be talking now. However it was announced 4 years ago. ANNOUNCED. Meaning it's deep into development. The fact that they change core elements NOW, is either a lie or VERY indicative of a crappy design team (which hey, might absolutely be the case).
But you claim it's all about the money, and not about making a good game, so you go do some research and let us all know when you find the truth.
Dude, the game IS good. Thats the point. Blizzard is acting like they made a piece of crap that need major help. Which is obviously bogus based on the overwhelmingly positive beta feedback.
You can't feed me anything because you don't know... and either do i. This game is coming out GLOBALLY, with a monetization feature. I'm sure that is a legal nightmare. Because as we all know even our country has different laws on gambling IN EACH STATE.
Online poker? That stuff runs into soooooo many legal issues and most of the servers are all in random countries.
This is not a simple issue. In fact i bet it is WAY more complicated than many of the actually game design elements.
This is about money, it's got nothing to do with making a good game.
I'm sure the RMAH is still meeting resistance in various countries.
There is just no hope for some people..
So you CAN prove that RMAH has been approved globally and that the paypal functionality is working 100%? I mean i'm not 100% certain, but i'd love to see some proof beyond "a blue said so." Setting up a feature like this globally is a HUGE undertaking and it is what investors care about. This isn't conspiracy stuff, its simple economics.
The only other option is that the devs on this game are not very good at their job. You don't typically see companies give a definitive release window, only to change major feautres AFTER that window has come and gone...
But i'm crazy i guess. Anyways, link me to the info on these features being approved globally in countries that probably all have dramatically diverse legislation on such potential "gambling" issues.
As far as the 100% surety goes, I can speak for my country and say that not even Paypal is 100% approved. Due to tax reasons only one bank supports Paypal fully and even for that to work you have to give a valid reason for the withdrawal(from a drop down menu) and have a certain type of bank account.
As for my opinion, I can still see an "early" 2012 release. Simplicity is the mark of a great engineer. If that means overhauling the whole system(not that they have), so be it. Having a simple UI does not mean having a stupid game. The amount of pressure on the lead must be HUGE, give them a chance and I can guarantee you that they won't let you down.
If this game was announced in 2010, we wouldn't be talking now. However it was announced 4 years ago. ANNOUNCED. Meaning it's deep into development. The fact that they change core elements NOW, is either a lie or VERY indicative of a crappy design team (which hey, might absolutely be the case).
Do you really think a capitalism company in a capitalism country and society will skip the chance to add another source of revenue to their pocket?
If this game was announced in 2010, we wouldn't be talking now. However it was announced 4 years ago. ANNOUNCED. Meaning it's deep into development. The fact that they change core elements NOW, is either a lie or VERY indicative of a crappy design team (which hey, might absolutely be the case).
Sir, I think you are missing my point too. Yes the game announcement was WAY too early. I think PR will learn. But their announcement didn't mean they were deep in development. And trust me that developing a game takes A LOT of time. Like I explained, but it seems you didn't read or tried to understand my post, a game development is long and even at the final minute mega change happen.
You think I am wrong? Well believe what you wish, but like I stated decision of game features is not like choosing a color or an option that is yes or no. It complicated and you need to change your mind and try different things. Am I licking Blizz ass? No. I work in the video game industry and this is my day to day life seeing those changes.
No i don't think you are wrong, but i don't know if you are right either (none of us do). I understand development too, I work in a creative field and have friends who work in the industry as well.
Just saying that this whole ordeal is very bizzare behavior from blizzard. I mean maybe the game sucked and required a lot of work. Anything can happen.
However, even the chance that this perpetual delay might be about a feature that could totally be optional, or patched in later, is enough to make me annoyed.
Blizzards mistake was announce D3 when only a very small part of the game was complete.
I agree it seens they have poor ability in foresighting results. For exemples, it's really obvious that the new hotkey interface will fail and they will just add a new buttom. With potions taking a key automatically you only have 6 keys left. Since we have 6 skills, theres no place for the normal attack.
The normal attack is very important. Majority of spammable skills are weaker then normal attack (they just add some effect or hit multiple monsters). Theres also passive skills that enhance normal attacks alone.
Blizzards mistake was announce D3 when only a very small part of the game was complete.
Indeed, thats the major problem. Their open door policy is also in huge flaw. And I think Fanbase are not mad at Blizzard, they are just tired of waiting... Blizz might change their mind in the close future about announcing games in development only 1-2 years prior to release. Less hype, but less angry people on their forums.
Blizzards mistake was announce D3 when only a very small part of the game was complete.
Indeed, thats the major problem. Their open door policy is also in huge flaw. And I think Fanbase are not mad at Blizzard, they are just tired of waiting... Blizz might change their mind in the close future about announcing games in development only 1-2 years prior to release. Less hype, but less angry people on their forums.
To be honest, hype is a TM of Blizzard. SC2 is HUUUUUGE due to the hype, and of course SC1. I don't see them changing that policy. The problem in my opinion is giving a rough deadline and not sticking to it. The new "deadline" looks to be in danger and that is pissing off a lot of fans. As I said before I can still see an "early" 2012 release. Give them a chance. I must admit I sound like a real fanboy, I assure you I'm just as worried about D3 as the next person. All I'm saying is trust in Blizzard, they're an industry leader for a reason.
Steve Jobs revolutionized the world as we know it in 5 years.
He did revolutionize it in 5 years but his invention is dated from the 1980. Google it (origiphone). You'll see iPhone and iPad prototype were being developped and polished since LONG time.
My point is : Maybe Blizz took 10 years to make a game, but NO products in the world were put on the market and quoted as good as quickly as you are saying.
So you CAN prove that RMAH has been approved globally and that the paypal functionality is working 100%? I mean i'm not 100% certain, but i'd love to see some proof beyond "a blue said so." Setting up a feature like this globally is a HUGE undertaking and it is what investors care about. This isn't conspiracy stuff, its simple economics.
Setting up a feature like this does require a lot of work, but I seriously doubt any investor cares too much about it (other than the fact that Blizzard is pretty sure they won't be losing money on it). People that think the RMAH is going to make truckloads of money for Blizzard must think that billions of dollars will be flowing through it each year or something. If you really think investors care about this feature as a profit center, I'd love to see the "simple economics" to back it up.
The only other option is that the devs on this game are not very good at their job. You don't typically see companies give a definitive release window, only to change major feautres AFTER that window has come and gone...
Their original release target was December for the extra holiday sales boost. I'd bet money that if they had felt they could finish the game by then, or even come close (and perhaps release a patch in Jan to fix any oustanding issues as long as there was nothing game-breaking at release) that they would have pushed for that release date. The fact they they decided to push the release tells me that they didn't feel like they were as close to release as they would have liked and that people expecting the game to come out in January or something where just deluding themselves.
Once the release date had been pushed, there was no longer that pressure to hit a specific holiday timeframe. This let them go back and look at the list of features that they felt had been "good enough to release" but that they really weren't 100% happy with.The skill/rune system and stats are two excellent examples of this. Both were in a workable state but probably not ideal.
Once they decided to take a second look at things like this it put them in a bit of an awkward PR spot. People looked at the beta and though: "this game looks good to go--why haven't we heard about a release date". Behind the scenes Blizzard has probably been looking at many changes in addition to what was just announced. Some of those things worked out and others did not. They don't want to tell us about every single idea they they test out, so we only hear about the successful experiments.
At this point, though, I'd be a little surprised if we heard about other major system changes beyond the skills/runes update that they've been talking about. It sounds like they are just about done with whatever they are changing with that and the only other thing I'm aware of that they still likely need to do is go through and itemize all the unique/set items and do whatever tinkering they still have planned for item affixes (this probably includes tweaking item drop tables as well). I can definitely see them finishing their changes and polishing work in another month or so and announcing a release date at that point which could mean a March or April release.
I'm definitely as anxious as the next guy to get this game in my hands, but they will release it on their own timetable and no amount of QQ from me or anyone else is going to change that.
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Lately it seems to me that they are unsure of what they want, so it leads to things like this most recent "major overhaul".
At some point, someone has to take the reigns.
I'm sure the RMAH is still meeting resistance in various countries.
There is just no hope for some people..
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
But no, I strongly disagree with what you say Nastai. The only reason you feel this way is because they actually shared the whole development from the very beginning. This isn't much diffrent from how they make their other games. Those games have just not this much coverage on them.
So really it's more an issue of too much information. People can't understand that you wanna change something that is working, but sometimes that makes something truly great. Changing something 100% good, and making it 10% better. Iterational devolopment is just one of the best ways to get something really great out there.
I mainly agree. For the future, I hope Blizzard keeps us in the dark to be honest. That way, I don't have to read through pages upon pages with people voicing their opinion how Blizzard should do their job, or how they just wont stand for this and wont play the game etc. It gets old, really fast =(
You might disagree with their changes, but it has nothing to do with the leader. Pointing what they want for a game is not as simple as to say I want my car color's to be black.
Often times they take a stand, then realize later after gameplay test and iteration that finally their idea wasn't so great due to various reasons. And those reasons are quantifiable... so they don't pull it out of their arses.
Yes, there's a chance to fall into over-iteration, but Diablo 3 is not in this phase yet. Yes it's long for Blizzard to release it, and a lot of you will say that they are over-iterating, but they know that if they release a game with system that players don't like, it will make the fans disappointed and they will say Blizzard botched a game.
If they take time, the fans will whine they make them wait.... In all the cases they are getting "attacked" by the fans.
Try to understand their position they want to make an awesome game. Even if they have to make you wait some months... The price to pay will be WAY less than the price to pay if they don't deliver the game with the quality we are expecting...
Also, for those who says Blizzard is only there for money and points to the RMAH. Do you really think a capitalism company in a capitalism country and society will skip the chance to add another source of revenue to their pocket? That's what we call capitalism. And for your information guys, developing a game costs A LOT more than it used to be. The cost increase over the years... And selling the game 50-60$ is not even enough for a lot of compagnies to make the game more profitable.
So you CAN prove that RMAH has been approved globally and that the paypal functionality is working 100%? I mean i'm not 100% certain, but i'd love to see some proof beyond "a blue said so." Setting up a feature like this globally is a HUGE undertaking and it is what investors care about. This isn't conspiracy stuff, its simple economics.
The only other option is that the devs on this game are not very good at their job. You don't typically see companies give a definitive release window, only to change major feautres AFTER that window has come and gone...
But i'm crazy i guess. Anyways, link me to the info on these features being approved globally in countries that probably all have dramatically diverse legislation on such potential "gambling" issues.
But you claim it's all about the money, and not about making a good game, so you go do some research and let us all know when you find the truth.
Battle.net Profile / Diablo Progress Profile
I think you miss the point. The issue is that IF (yes, i said if... none of us know definitively) this RMAH is the issue that has been delaying the game, they are lying to our faces and proving that MONEY>>>>>>>>>>>>pleasing your fans.
If this game was announced in 2010, we wouldn't be talking now. However it was announced 4 years ago. ANNOUNCED. Meaning it's deep into development. The fact that they change core elements NOW, is either a lie or VERY indicative of a crappy design team (which hey, might absolutely be the case).
Dude, the game IS good. Thats the point. Blizzard is acting like they made a piece of crap that need major help. Which is obviously bogus based on the overwhelmingly positive beta feedback.
You can't feed me anything because you don't know... and either do i. This game is coming out GLOBALLY, with a monetization feature. I'm sure that is a legal nightmare. Because as we all know even our country has different laws on gambling IN EACH STATE.
Online poker? That stuff runs into soooooo many legal issues and most of the servers are all in random countries.
This is not a simple issue. In fact i bet it is WAY more complicated than many of the actually game design elements.
As far as the 100% surety goes, I can speak for my country and say that not even Paypal is 100% approved. Due to tax reasons only one bank supports Paypal fully and even for that to work you have to give a valid reason for the withdrawal(from a drop down menu) and have a certain type of bank account.
As for my opinion, I can still see an "early" 2012 release. Simplicity is the mark of a great engineer. If that means overhauling the whole system(not that they have), so be it. Having a simple UI does not mean having a stupid game. The amount of pressure on the lead must be HUGE, give them a chance and I can guarantee you that they won't let you down.
Sir, I think you are missing my point too. Yes the game announcement was WAY too early. I think PR will learn. But their announcement didn't mean they were deep in development. And trust me that developing a game takes A LOT of time. Like I explained, but it seems you didn't read or tried to understand my post, a game development is long and even at the final minute mega change happen.
You think I am wrong? Well believe what you wish, but like I stated decision of game features is not like choosing a color or an option that is yes or no. It complicated and you need to change your mind and try different things. Am I licking Blizz ass? No. I work in the video game industry and this is my day to day life seeing those changes.
No i don't think you are wrong, but i don't know if you are right either (none of us do). I understand development too, I work in a creative field and have friends who work in the industry as well.
Just saying that this whole ordeal is very bizzare behavior from blizzard. I mean maybe the game sucked and required a lot of work. Anything can happen.
However, even the chance that this perpetual delay might be about a feature that could totally be optional, or patched in later, is enough to make me annoyed.
I agree it seens they have poor ability in foresighting results. For exemples, it's really obvious that the new hotkey interface will fail and they will just add a new buttom. With potions taking a key automatically you only have 6 keys left. Since we have 6 skills, theres no place for the normal attack.
The normal attack is very important. Majority of spammable skills are weaker then normal attack (they just add some effect or hit multiple monsters). Theres also passive skills that enhance normal attacks alone.
Indeed, thats the major problem. Their open door policy is also in huge flaw. And I think Fanbase are not mad at Blizzard, they are just tired of waiting... Blizz might change their mind in the close future about announcing games in development only 1-2 years prior to release. Less hype, but less angry people on their forums.
To be honest, hype is a TM of Blizzard. SC2 is HUUUUUGE due to the hype, and of course SC1. I don't see them changing that policy. The problem in my opinion is giving a rough deadline and not sticking to it. The new "deadline" looks to be in danger and that is pissing off a lot of fans. As I said before I can still see an "early" 2012 release. Give them a chance. I must admit I sound like a real fanboy, I assure you I'm just as worried about D3 as the next person. All I'm saying is trust in Blizzard, they're an industry leader for a reason.
One more time... a recurring 1.5 billion is better than a one-time 250 million, especially when the latter threatens the former.
He did revolutionize it in 5 years but his invention is dated from the 1980. Google it (origiphone). You'll see iPhone and iPad prototype were being developped and polished since LONG time.
My point is : Maybe Blizz took 10 years to make a game, but NO products in the world were put on the market and quoted as good as quickly as you are saying.
Setting up a feature like this does require a lot of work, but I seriously doubt any investor cares too much about it (other than the fact that Blizzard is pretty sure they won't be losing money on it). People that think the RMAH is going to make truckloads of money for Blizzard must think that billions of dollars will be flowing through it each year or something. If you really think investors care about this feature as a profit center, I'd love to see the "simple economics" to back it up.
Their original release target was December for the extra holiday sales boost. I'd bet money that if they had felt they could finish the game by then, or even come close (and perhaps release a patch in Jan to fix any oustanding issues as long as there was nothing game-breaking at release) that they would have pushed for that release date. The fact they they decided to push the release tells me that they didn't feel like they were as close to release as they would have liked and that people expecting the game to come out in January or something where just deluding themselves.
Once the release date had been pushed, there was no longer that pressure to hit a specific holiday timeframe. This let them go back and look at the list of features that they felt had been "good enough to release" but that they really weren't 100% happy with.The skill/rune system and stats are two excellent examples of this. Both were in a workable state but probably not ideal.
Once they decided to take a second look at things like this it put them in a bit of an awkward PR spot. People looked at the beta and though: "this game looks good to go--why haven't we heard about a release date". Behind the scenes Blizzard has probably been looking at many changes in addition to what was just announced. Some of those things worked out and others did not. They don't want to tell us about every single idea they they test out, so we only hear about the successful experiments.
At this point, though, I'd be a little surprised if we heard about other major system changes beyond the skills/runes update that they've been talking about. It sounds like they are just about done with whatever they are changing with that and the only other thing I'm aware of that they still likely need to do is go through and itemize all the unique/set items and do whatever tinkering they still have planned for item affixes (this probably includes tweaking item drop tables as well). I can definitely see them finishing their changes and polishing work in another month or so and announcing a release date at that point which could mean a March or April release.
I'm definitely as anxious as the next guy to get this game in my hands, but they will release it on their own timetable and no amount of QQ from me or anyone else is going to change that.