The guys that complain that normal D3 is too easy will QQ like bitches on inferno I bet it.
They won't make it to inferno.
Blizz has stated that a majority of the playerbase won't make it to inferno. That only those that are hardcore and serious about the game will make into such content, and that they will not tweak it to fit the needs of casuals.
sooooooooooo happy about this, because I will be one of those in inferno
Yah sort of like Vanilla wow.....and now, now...well everyone is an end game raider.
correct. diablo 2 wasnt hard at all to get to hell and beat it. D3 wont be any different. maybe itll take the casual players a bit longer, but EVERYONE will be able to beat inferno. and if not, the mass influx of millions of QQ's will change it. like it ALWAYS has. regardless of what they say they "wont do". thats just plain BS
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
The difference is that Diablo 3's endgame (so far and from what we've heard) is the same content, only harder.
It's kinda like heroic mode raids. The same stuff, but a lot harder. You don't see casuals going around killing heroic bosses do you? (Months after they are released with overgeared characters doesn't count).
The reason they want everyone to be able to raid in WoW is that they want everyone to be able to experience the new content that they create.
I truly can't believe that topics like this even exists? Whats wrong with people.
This has been explained a billion times that normal mode has its limits because
they want the players to get a feel for the game before getting some
form off resistance and higher difficulty.
ForEx.
- If there was a possibility to play HC immedietly and i would start a HC char without any knowledge of the game would i reach my goals faster? or would i just die a billion times like a little biatch and ragequit the game.
- Or someone who has played through the game a couple of times and reserched a little deeper into HC gameplay. Would this type of gameplay development help you reach your goals faster.
OF COURSE THE SECOND OPTION IS MORE SOLID, HOW CAN THAT BE QUESTIONED?
You have to get a feel for the game first before managing your skills and testing your limits. Thats all it is please sick and tired of people complaining about "Normal" difficulty.
ehm...maybe my grasp of english is really poor and I apologize for that in advance but.....this topic just state that D2 normal is as easy as D3 beta...and so there is no reason to complain....so what's the raging about?
The difference is that Diablo 3's endgame (so far and from what we've heard) is the same content, only harder.
It's kinda like heroic mode raids. The same stuff, but a lot harder. You don't see casuals going around killing heroic bosses do you? (Months after they are released with overgeared characters doesn't count).
The reason they want everyone to be able to raid in WoW is that they want everyone to be able to experience the new content that they create.
unfortunately thats not the case in D3. its not going to be "impossibly hard" by any means. it will be beaten, not with ease but it will be by everyone. and if its truly so hard that casuals cant beat it, with literally hundreds of thousands, even millions of QQers in the forums will cause blizzard to cave as they always have to reduce the difficulty. i would hope this isnt the case but its honestly going to happen and thinking otherwise is just false hope.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
The difference is that Diablo 3's endgame (so far and from what we've heard) is the same content, only harder.
It's kinda like heroic mode raids. The same stuff, but a lot harder. You don't see casuals going around killing heroic bosses do you? (Months after they are released with overgeared characters doesn't count).
The reason they want everyone to be able to raid in WoW is that they want everyone to be able to experience the new content that they create.
unfortunately thats not the case in D3. its not going to be "impossibly hard" by any means. it will be beaten, not with ease but it will be by everyone. and if its truly so hard that casuals cant beat it, with literally hundreds of thousands, even millions of QQers in the forums will cause blizzard to cave as they always have to reduce the difficulty. i would hope this isnt the case but its honestly going to happen and thinking otherwise is just false hope.
How do you know that that's not the case in D3? You are just making assumptions. Arguably I'm doing the same, but seriously we just don't know yet.. we can only guess. Throwing out "this is how it is/going to be" just doesn't make sense at the moment.
What I'm saying is that it's not unreasonable to think that because the Inferno mode (as far as we know) is the same content as Hell (and normal, and nightmare), only harder and with a few variations, it is not really in their interest to make sure everyone can beat it. They included Inferno in the first place for people to have a challange! Yes, it is going to be beaten by those who play to beat it, and I see no problem with that. I do not want inferno to be some impossible mode that only the top 5%-something hardcore players can beat.
Also the way that casual vs hardcore (not talking hardcore mode) players work in D3 is a bit different to other games. I mean if you just play a few hours a day casually you will eventually beat everything, just a lot slower. You don't need insane skill or coordination to play D3, you basically just need a good build, good gear and reasonable ability to play. That's not going to change.
About Blizzard caving in to QQ in the forums.. Huh? I don't see them nerfing Hardcore raids (balance tuning doesn't count, those are still directed to the hc community). They are introducing additional casual-friendly features such as the LFR tool to cater their casual player-base, not dumbing down the hardcore modes for those who really want their challenge. I don't see that as a bad thing.
Anyways.. I dunno where exactly I'm going with this, but basically I just wouldn't throw out assumptions and "rage" about inferno being too easy/casual friendly just because that is the path they went with WoW. Yes, Blizzard makes casual-friendly games, and Diablo 3 will be no different, but that doesn't mean they don't care about their hardcore players. Everything they've said so far about Inferno says so. If you choose to believe it is up to you I guess.
The difference is that Diablo 3's endgame (so far and from what we've heard) is the same content, only harder.
It's kinda like heroic mode raids. The same stuff, but a lot harder. You don't see casuals going around killing heroic bosses do you? (Months after they are released with overgeared characters doesn't count).
The reason they want everyone to be able to raid in WoW is that they want everyone to be able to experience the new content that they create.
unfortunately thats not the case in D3. its not going to be "impossibly hard" by any means. it will be beaten, not with ease but it will be by everyone. and if its truly so hard that casuals cant beat it, with literally hundreds of thousands, even millions of QQers in the forums will cause blizzard to cave as they always have to reduce the difficulty. i would hope this isnt the case but its honestly going to happen and thinking otherwise is just false hope.
Not at all. They stated that Normal was built so that everyone can finish it, Nightmare is built to have most of the community can finish it (probably between 85 - 90%). So from this I can assume that Hell was made for around 50% of the community to finish, and Inferno will probably be for the 15 - 20% of the gamer base or even the 10%. They aren't going to change Inferno difficulty for the casuals unless they find that there is a boss or some part of the game that is nearly impossible to get through.
Inferno will be doable by majority of players. Its actually more a question of gear than skill.
A dedicated player will farm hell for gear to progress to inferno, step into inferno with some of best gear from hell in order to stand a chance. A casual player who doesnt have much time to farm hell will just buy inferno gear from AH and with that gear move into inferno.
Thats my take on it anyway.
Yeah, I'm aware. I basically wrote the same thing in the post above :kitty:.
I think Blizz is aiming for difficult but not frustrating.
Casual players will be able to buy lvl 60 runed godly-geared characters, join public games and beat the game.
This should reduce the number of complainers, but there will never be shortage of complainers and sore losers, whatever Blizz will do.
If we don't find Inferno challenging enough we can just try to beat it by bare fists or something like that, if memory serves Blizz told us it will be an achievement...
since they wont be bringing back immune monsters, which to me was the only thing that made hell even remotely challenging in D2, i dont see inferno being all that "crazy hard" like blizzard is boasting about, obviously we will have to see but i just dont see it being that hard. and most everyone in D2 could beat hell so i dont see hell being "only beatable by 50% of the community". and the percentage of inferno being way higher then 20% beatable. i remember my friends mom picking up D2 and beating it within a couple weeks solo, without help or constant playing. so unless D3 is literally 10x harder, most people will beat it.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
since they wont be bringing back immune monsters, which to me was the only thing that made hell even remotely challenging in D2, i dont see inferno being all that "crazy hard" like blizzard is boasting about, obviously we will have to see but i just dont see it being that hard. and most everyone in D2 could beat hell so i dont see hell being "only beatable by 50% of the community". and the percentage of inferno being way higher then 20% beatable. i remember my friends mom picking up D2 and beating it within a couple weeks solo, without help or constant playing. so unless D3 is literally 10x harder, most people will beat it.
Game Difficulty is very subjective. Many posts here claim how easy it was to reach Hell in D2. I for one disagree. But then again, I mostly played solo on battlenet, and as a Sorceress. So honestly Nightmare and beyond was alot about getting the to a high enough level and farming non stop till you get good enough equipment. But that means dying. A Lot. A Lot A Lot.
Many more casual players don't like the dying thing, or find farming way too high a barrier. (Of course with the AH ... that's another story). My point is this, Blizzard has solid numbers on how many people actually completed Normal/Nightmare/Hell. And it would not surprise me if only 50% completed the game on normal. Actually irc it was about 60+% that actually completed Normal D2, they made a post sometime back.
If we go by those numbers of a 50% drop off rate for each gameplay mode, and we assume about 4 million units of D3 will be sold (hopefully much more). That's 2 million reaching Nightmare, 1 million reaching Hell and only 500,000 reaching Inferno. Although my gut feeling is that of those 1 million that have reach Hell, a much larger % will go on to Inferno especially if co-op is much much much more improved that in D2, which I fully expect it will.
Comparing difficulty to D2 at this point is moot. In D2, you typically have a friend rush you and sit in xp zones. If not? Well you have at least played the game enough to know the zone progression, maps, etc that you can easily navigate the game. People won't be doing that for a while after release. And when you do, it will only get harder as the difficulty progresses through NM, Hell, Inferno.
And as far as "making the game easier for the casuals". No. They won't. They might tweak a boss that is IMPOSSIBLE, but as someone else pointed out, they tweak WoW because they want everyone to experience the lore/content. I want to be able to defeat Arthas so that I know the plot going into Cataclysm. Not watch some uber nerd via stream as he does his world first, just in order to learn the plot and lore. What fun is that? Most players want to experience it THEMSELVES.
In Diablo, it's the same plot, each difficulty. Can't make it into Inferno? Tough luck, play more, farm more, work on your tactics. You're not missing out on the lore, so in order to get that sweet loot (goal in the game) you better make some adjustments. Don't have time? Work too much? Use your hard earned cash to buy better loot and maybe you'll be on par with everyone else.
Also, lack of monster immunity has little to do with difficulty. Sure, it did in D2, but this is a new monster. There are many other aspects of the game that they can tweak, monster AI being one of the top of my head that they have mentioned. Hit points, damage, etc.
Game Difficulty is very subjective. Many posts here claim how easy it was to reach Hell in D2. I for one disagree. But then again, I mostly played solo on battlenet, and as a Sorceress. So honestly Nightmare and beyond was alot about getting the to a high enough level and farming non stop till you get good enough equipment. But that means dying. A Lot. A Lot A Lot.
Many more casual players don't like the dying thing, or find farming way too high a barrier. (Of course with the AH ... that's another story). My point is this, Blizzard has solid numbers on how many people actually completed Normal/Nightmare/Hell. And it would not surprise me if only 50% completed the game on normal. Actually irc it was about 60+% that actually completed Normal D2, they made a post sometime back.
If we go by those numbers of a 50% drop off rate for each gameplay mode, and we assume about 4 million units of D3 will be sold (hopefully much more). That's 2 million reaching Nightmare, 1 million reaching Hell and only 500,000 reaching Inferno. Although my gut feeling is that of those 1 million that have reach Hell, a much larger % will go on to Inferno especially if co-op is much much much more improved that in D2, which I fully expect it will.
well the stats from bnet are extremely unreliable. why? because of the THOUSANDS of lvl 1 bots and lvl 1 mules everyone has ruins the entire percentage making it completely unusable as a statistic to how many ppl beat hell. also rushes/runs ruins that percentage also AND blizz has zero way of knowing how many ppl completed hell on single player. therefor no one can give a percentage or even a ball park percentage, im using my personal experience (and im not that great of a gamer) along with people like my friends mom who is video game illiterate who also beat hell. therefor its not as hard as people think. and leads me to believe inferno/hell in D3 wont be any different.
SIDE NOTE: im talking about beating hell single player, NOT by being rushed.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
since they wont be bringing back immune monsters, which to me was the only thing that made hell even remotely challenging in D2, i dont see inferno being all that "crazy hard" like blizzard is boasting about, obviously we will have to see but i just dont see it being that hard. and most everyone in D2 could beat hell so i dont see hell being "only beatable by 50% of the community". and the percentage of inferno being way higher then 20% beatable. i remember my friends mom picking up D2 and beating it within a couple weeks solo, without help or constant playing. so unless D3 is literally 10x harder, most people will beat it.
Game Difficulty is very subjective. Many posts here claim how easy it was to reach Hell in D2. I for one disagree. But then again, I mostly played solo on battlenet, and as a Sorceress. So honestly Nightmare and beyond was alot about getting the to a high enough level and farming non stop till you get good enough equipment. But that means dying. A Lot. A Lot A Lot.
Many more casual players don't like the dying thing, or find farming way too high a barrier. (Of course with the AH ... that's another story). My point is this, Blizzard has solid numbers on how many people actually completed Normal/Nightmare/Hell. And it would not surprise me if only 50% completed the game on normal. Actually irc it was about 60+% that actually completed Normal D2, they made a post sometime back.
If we go by those numbers of a 50% drop off rate for each gameplay mode, and we assume about 4 million units of D3 will be sold (hopefully much more). That's 2 million reaching Nightmare, 1 million reaching Hell and only 500,000 reaching Inferno. Although my gut feeling is that of those 1 million that have reach Hell, a much larger % will go on to Inferno especially if co-op is much much much more improved that in D2, which I fully expect it will.
I agree with emyln here.
The criteria for measuring the difficulty of D2 can't be measured with the fact that you and your friends mom's easily beat Hell. Even though D2 would sound easy to non-D2-players if they hear someone's mom beat the last difficulty in D2.
I for one didn't play online, used mods, bought gear, mulled gear, used runewords, transferred gear from one character to another ect. I installed the game and just played it as is, solo and offline. I have a couple of characters in Hell but not one is above level 80...whether I sucked balls in D2, used no external help, or had shitty gear, I couldn't get passed Act 1 in Hell. It would literally take me a good couple of minutes to kill a Fallen-Shaman+party...I didn't necessarily die, but just the fact that it took so fucking long to the kill mobs was to tedious.
As for Inferno, it will be difficult, despite the fact that none of us have played it. Blizz said inferno will even be difficult for the most hardcore players. They should know, they're developing the game!! And I'm sure all of dev team have finished D2, you can't possibly say it's gonna be easy...and the fact that monsters' level is always at least 1 level above yours, where D2's highest was 85.
well the stats from bnet are extremely unreliable. why? because of the THOUSANDS of lvl 1 bots and lvl 1 mules everyone has ruins the entire percentage making it completely unusable as a statistic to how many ppl beat hell. also rushes/runs ruins that percentage also AND blizz has zero way of knowing how many ppl completed hell on single player. therefor no one can give a percentage or even a ball park percentage, im using my personal experience (and im not that great of a gamer) along with people like my friends mom who is video game illiterate who also beat hell. therefor its not as hard as people think. and leads me to believe inferno/hell in D3 wont be any different.
There's no way of knowing how Blizzard calculated that number and what variables were used. But in general people buy PC games and don't complete them. I've bought over 20+ games this year some are the full $60 budget titles, some are the $5 steam sales. But the number I've actually completed this year? Probably about 4-5. And I'm not the only one out there that has a huge backlog of games that will probably never be finished.
The main point of my post was that Difficulty levels of games is usually geared towards the middle to lower end of the spectrum. (Games like Super Meat Boy are the exception, where they target the upper end of Difficulty levels). So assuming a 50% drop off rate for D3 at each mode is actually quite logical.
Let's face it Blizzard as a company is going to gear the game towards the majority. For the super hardcore, that means normal and nightmare is not ever going to be hard enough for you. However, End game WoW Heroic raids are mostly geared for the 1-5% of the wow population that actually like running the same raid 500 times before they actually down the ultimate big boss. I hope that Inferno will not be quite that hard. After all you are expected to run thru Inferno infinite times for item drops. And they have said it will be doable solo.
I love how Blizzard has clearly identified the goals of each difficulty mode and that Inferno will be incredibly difficult content that won't be nerfed for casuals and people here are blatantly calling Blizzard liars.
I love how Blizzard has clearly identified the goals of each difficulty mode and that Inferno will be incredibly difficult content that won't be nerfed for casuals and people here are blatantly calling Blizzard liars.
Haha, you have drank too much cool-aid friend. We have played Blizz games enough to know EXACTLY what they are going to do.
It will be nerfed in some way, there are A LOT of ways to lower the difficulty of content. And the thing is they are not required to even inform you. For example, people find stealth(Not in Patch Notes) nerfs/buffs in WoW all the time. So there is no guarantee you would know anyways.
The difference is that Diablo 3's endgame (so far and from what we've heard) is the same content, only harder.
It's kinda like heroic mode raids. The same stuff, but a lot harder. You don't see casuals going around killing heroic bosses do you? (Months after they are released with overgeared characters doesn't count).
The reason they want everyone to be able to raid in WoW is that they want everyone to be able to experience the new content that they create.
New raids on heroic mode pre-nerfs is a bit extreme of a comparison. Diablo is a game that can be solo'd, even at a snails pace if necessary. Its not even remotely similar to Heroic Raids in WoW.
I think new 5 man dungeons would be a better example if you were going to bring up heroics. Not one of those puss Lich King heroics mind you, maybe like Shattered Halls heroic at start of Burning Crusade. Go slow, CC as much as possible, die a few times to unexpected events, and eventually you will make it to the boss.
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Haha, you have drank too much cool-aid friend. We have played Blizz games enough to know EXACTLY what they are going to do.
It will be nerfed in some way, there are A LOT of ways to lower the difficulty of content. And the thing is they are not required to even inform you. For example, people find stealth(Not in Patch Notes) nerfs/buffs in WoW all the time. So there is no guarantee you would know anyways.
Actually I think you're wrong on this count. As I said previously, only a fraction of the total people who buy D3 will reach Inferno difficulty. Let's use 40% as a number. I'm sure a lot of people will dispute this but remember, enjoying D3 and wanting to reach inferno are 2 different things. Then even among the "hardcore", Inferno has 3 tiers of gear, and Blizzard has said that reaching inferno and expecting to clear it is probably not possible. They expect us to farm hell first.
So at this point, we've weeded out the casual players and a lot of the semi-hardcore players (of which I consider myself a part of). I expect to finish Hell and try out Inferno but burn out farming in hell because I'm always looking for the next new shiny game out there. In the meanwhile those who reached lvl 90 and beyond in D2 will probably have lots of fun in Inferno.
Basically what I'm saying is, once you complete Hell, its actually in Blizzard's interest to make Inferno as hard as the super hardcore really want. The casuals are gone, the hardcore want Mt Everest to climb and the in turn will be able to sell uber loot that people in Hell can only drool over. Everyone wins.
There's no way of knowing how Blizzard calculated that number and what variables were used. But in general people buy PC games and don't complete them. I've bought over 20+ games this year some are the full $60 budget titles, some are the $5 steam sales. But the number I've actually completed this year? Probably about 4-5. And I'm not the only one out there that has a huge backlog of games that will probably never be finished.
The main point of my post was that Difficulty levels of games is usually geared towards the middle to lower end of the spectrum. (Games like Super Meat Boy are the exception, where they target the upper end of Difficulty levels). So assuming a 50% drop off rate for D3 at each mode is actually quite logical.
Let's face it Blizzard as a company is going to gear the game towards the majority. For the super hardcore, that means normal and nightmare is not ever going to be hard enough for you. However, End game WoW Heroic raids are mostly geared for the 1-5% of the wow population that actually like running the same raid 500 times before they actually down the ultimate big boss. I hope that Inferno will not be quite that hard. After all you are expected to run thru Inferno infinite times for item drops. And they have said it will be doable solo.
my point is there is NO WAY to calculate how many beat hell, period. regardless of ANY variable or calculations, the variables are far too high and far too sketchy and non existent to ever calculate anything tangible or usable.
also i think your getting confused in my argument. my point is that most everyone will be ABLE to beat inferno, not that everyone will. i know ALOT of people will quit after norm or nm or hell and the higher up the difficulty the more will drop off, NOT because of difficulty but because they lost interest in the game. for everyone who WANTS to beat inferno, id say 80-90% will be able to. or heck even higher. also i dont think itll take that long at all either, im sure you could say "ya everyone who wants to be inferno will EVENTUALLY but itll take them longer". i also thinks thats false, i just dont see it being that hard in general. unless your seriously retarded or horribly horribly skilled at video games, you'll beat it in a decent amount of time. and hardcore veteran players wont have much trouble.
using wow heroic raids is a bad example, because i COULD beat them all if i tried, i just have no interest in beating those bosses and getting 10 extra item levels. not worth my time because raiding is soooo boring and takes eternity. most dont raid because of how boring it is or more so because they dont have time to spend countless hours doing raids, not because its impossibly hard. heroic wotlk raids werent that hard IMO. but hey to each his own.
since inferno is just one more playthrough of the game just harder, and the game isnt that long at all. i dont see it being unbeatable by the majority. UNLESS right out of the first act you get rushed and 1 shotted by a single zombie even when your in good gear, i just dont see it being anywhere close to that hard. but we will all see when it releases.
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"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Haha, you have drank too much cool-aid friend. We have played Blizz games enough to know EXACTLY what they are going to do.
It will be nerfed in some way, there are A LOT of ways to lower the difficulty of content. And the thing is they are not required to even inform you. For example, people find stealth(Not in Patch Notes) nerfs/buffs in WoW all the time. So there is no guarantee you would know anyways.
Actually I think you're wrong on this count. As I said previously, only a fraction of the total people who buy D3 will reach Inferno difficulty. Let's use 40% as a number. I'm sure a lot of people will dispute this but remember, enjoying D3 and wanting to reach inferno are 2 different things. Then even among the "hardcore", Inferno has 3 tiers of gear, and Blizzard has said that reaching inferno and expecting to clear it is probably not possible. They expect us to farm hell first.
So at this point, we've weeded out the casual players and a lot of the semi-hardcore players (of which I consider myself a part of). I expect to finish Hell and try out Inferno but burn out farming in hell because I'm always looking for the next new shiny game out there. In the meanwhile those who reached lvl 90 and beyond in D2 will probably have lots of fun in Inferno.
Basically what I'm saying is, once you complete Hell, its actually in Blizzard's interest to make Inferno as hard as the super hardcore really want. The casuals are gone, the hardcore want Mt Everest to climb and the in turn will be able to sell uber loot that people in Hell can only drool over. Everyone wins.
"enjoying D3 and wanting to reach inferno are 2 different things"
Not true, in fact I think you would find that a large percentage of the playerbase, feel cheated if content is beyond their reach. Games are meant to be challenging and fun, not frustrating. People are not going to continue to play a game where they just die constantly, and can never experience the end game content.
Besides, the truly hardcore only make up a very small % of any game. You can partially cater to these individuals as they are loyal customers, but if it forces you to ignore the vast majority, well that is not smart business. D3 only makes money via RMAH sales (and likely selling wings and other novelty crap in online store) if a huge amount of people continue to play the game. Even casual players will want the level 60 legendary equipment, and if it is nearly impossible for them to get outside the AH, then they will be PISSED. And rightfully so really, as they are being cheated. They are paying the full price for the game, yet they are only getting to experience a fraction of it.
The hardcore player, the semi-hardcore player, the moderate player, and the completely casual player will all level at very different rates. They experience the game at different times, which enables Blizzard to change the difficulty as necessary. And over time as they think they are losing the interest of the Hardcore players, they can come out with expansions which once again ramp up the difficulty.
Blizzard has already learned these lessons well from World of Warcraft. In fact, the process of nerf/update has been so intricately incorporated into the philosophy of design that it has just completely taken over. WoW is now trapped within an infinite loop of Nerf/Update.
All those Blizzard quotes you keep linking mean absolutely nothing. They are simply telling the people, who actually read/watch such things, aka hardcore gamers, exactly what they want to hear.
All those Blizzard quotes you keep linking mean absolutely nothing. They are simply telling the people, who actually read/watch such things, aka hardcore gamers, exactly what they want to hear.
Lets live and see. I expect Inferno to be WoW HC difficulty level - and no, not everyone can beat those. We killed in WoW Rag HC pre-nerf, it took guild over 500 tries, same as Top1 guild. You think Blizz always cater casuals? Guess again One group of devs were wiping for hours on one boss from the Hell, now imagine solo is harder, and Hell is easier than Inferno... Just because Blizz said its possible to clear solo, it doesnt mean everyone can, or will. Actually Blizz said it will be impossible to go straight to Inferno, you will have to farm Hell first. And will the best gear Hell offers you might try Inferno, and still could be killed within seconds.
Its called advertisement....You must have somehow missed that really hot girls butt in that nerds face.
Diablo is 100% absolutely T-totally NOTHING like heroic raiding in WoW. A guy recently posted a video of level ones killing the Skeleton King, and in that thread another person claimed that Diablo was also beaten by a level one.
I agree that it will be challenging at first for the moderate player, but nothing impossible as you are insinuating. But that difficulty will come down with time, just as everything else has, even D2.
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correct. diablo 2 wasnt hard at all to get to hell and beat it. D3 wont be any different. maybe itll take the casual players a bit longer, but EVERYONE will be able to beat inferno. and if not, the mass influx of millions of QQ's will change it. like it ALWAYS has. regardless of what they say they "wont do". thats just plain BS
It's kinda like heroic mode raids. The same stuff, but a lot harder. You don't see casuals going around killing heroic bosses do you? (Months after they are released with overgeared characters doesn't count).
The reason they want everyone to be able to raid in WoW is that they want everyone to be able to experience the new content that they create.
ehm...maybe my grasp of english is really poor and I apologize for that in advance but.....this topic just state that D2 normal is as easy as D3 beta...and so there is no reason to complain....so what's the raging about?
Did I really messed it up so much?
unfortunately thats not the case in D3. its not going to be "impossibly hard" by any means. it will be beaten, not with ease but it will be by everyone. and if its truly so hard that casuals cant beat it, with literally hundreds of thousands, even millions of QQers in the forums will cause blizzard to cave as they always have to reduce the difficulty. i would hope this isnt the case but its honestly going to happen and thinking otherwise is just false hope.
How do you know that that's not the case in D3? You are just making assumptions. Arguably I'm doing the same, but seriously we just don't know yet.. we can only guess. Throwing out "this is how it is/going to be" just doesn't make sense at the moment.
What I'm saying is that it's not unreasonable to think that because the Inferno mode (as far as we know) is the same content as Hell (and normal, and nightmare), only harder and with a few variations, it is not really in their interest to make sure everyone can beat it. They included Inferno in the first place for people to have a challange! Yes, it is going to be beaten by those who play to beat it, and I see no problem with that. I do not want inferno to be some impossible mode that only the top 5%-something hardcore players can beat.
Also the way that casual vs hardcore (not talking hardcore mode) players work in D3 is a bit different to other games. I mean if you just play a few hours a day casually you will eventually beat everything, just a lot slower. You don't need insane skill or coordination to play D3, you basically just need a good build, good gear and reasonable ability to play. That's not going to change.
About Blizzard caving in to QQ in the forums.. Huh? I don't see them nerfing Hardcore raids (balance tuning doesn't count, those are still directed to the hc community). They are introducing additional casual-friendly features such as the LFR tool to cater their casual player-base, not dumbing down the hardcore modes for those who really want their challenge. I don't see that as a bad thing.
Anyways.. I dunno where exactly I'm going with this, but basically I just wouldn't throw out assumptions and "rage" about inferno being too easy/casual friendly just because that is the path they went with WoW. Yes, Blizzard makes casual-friendly games, and Diablo 3 will be no different, but that doesn't mean they don't care about their hardcore players. Everything they've said so far about Inferno says so. If you choose to believe it is up to you I guess.
Not at all. They stated that Normal was built so that everyone can finish it, Nightmare is built to have most of the community can finish it (probably between 85 - 90%). So from this I can assume that Hell was made for around 50% of the community to finish, and Inferno will probably be for the 15 - 20% of the gamer base or even the 10%. They aren't going to change Inferno difficulty for the casuals unless they find that there is a boss or some part of the game that is nearly impossible to get through.
Yeah, I'm aware. I basically wrote the same thing in the post above :kitty:.
Casual players will be able to buy lvl 60 runed godly-geared characters, join public games and beat the game.
This should reduce the number of complainers, but there will never be shortage of complainers and sore losers, whatever Blizz will do.
If we don't find Inferno challenging enough we can just try to beat it by bare fists or something like that, if memory serves Blizz told us it will be an achievement...
Game Difficulty is very subjective. Many posts here claim how easy it was to reach Hell in D2. I for one disagree. But then again, I mostly played solo on battlenet, and as a Sorceress. So honestly Nightmare and beyond was alot about getting the to a high enough level and farming non stop till you get good enough equipment. But that means dying. A Lot. A Lot A Lot.
Many more casual players don't like the dying thing, or find farming way too high a barrier. (Of course with the AH ... that's another story). My point is this, Blizzard has solid numbers on how many people actually completed Normal/Nightmare/Hell. And it would not surprise me if only 50% completed the game on normal. Actually irc it was about 60+% that actually completed Normal D2, they made a post sometime back.
If we go by those numbers of a 50% drop off rate for each gameplay mode, and we assume about 4 million units of D3 will be sold (hopefully much more). That's 2 million reaching Nightmare, 1 million reaching Hell and only 500,000 reaching Inferno. Although my gut feeling is that of those 1 million that have reach Hell, a much larger % will go on to Inferno especially if co-op is much much much more improved that in D2, which I fully expect it will.
And as far as "making the game easier for the casuals". No. They won't. They might tweak a boss that is IMPOSSIBLE, but as someone else pointed out, they tweak WoW because they want everyone to experience the lore/content. I want to be able to defeat Arthas so that I know the plot going into Cataclysm. Not watch some uber nerd via stream as he does his world first, just in order to learn the plot and lore. What fun is that? Most players want to experience it THEMSELVES.
In Diablo, it's the same plot, each difficulty. Can't make it into Inferno? Tough luck, play more, farm more, work on your tactics. You're not missing out on the lore, so in order to get that sweet loot (goal in the game) you better make some adjustments. Don't have time? Work too much? Use your hard earned cash to buy better loot and maybe you'll be on par with everyone else.
Also, lack of monster immunity has little to do with difficulty. Sure, it did in D2, but this is a new monster. There are many other aspects of the game that they can tweak, monster AI being one of the top of my head that they have mentioned. Hit points, damage, etc.
well the stats from bnet are extremely unreliable. why? because of the THOUSANDS of lvl 1 bots and lvl 1 mules everyone has ruins the entire percentage making it completely unusable as a statistic to how many ppl beat hell. also rushes/runs ruins that percentage also AND blizz has zero way of knowing how many ppl completed hell on single player. therefor no one can give a percentage or even a ball park percentage, im using my personal experience (and im not that great of a gamer) along with people like my friends mom who is video game illiterate who also beat hell. therefor its not as hard as people think. and leads me to believe inferno/hell in D3 wont be any different.
SIDE NOTE: im talking about beating hell single player, NOT by being rushed.
The criteria for measuring the difficulty of D2 can't be measured with the fact that you and your friends mom's easily beat Hell. Even though D2 would sound easy to non-D2-players if they hear someone's mom beat the last difficulty in D2.
I for one didn't play online, used mods, bought gear, mulled gear, used runewords, transferred gear from one character to another ect. I installed the game and just played it as is, solo and offline. I have a couple of characters in Hell but not one is above level 80...whether I sucked balls in D2, used no external help, or had shitty gear, I couldn't get passed Act 1 in Hell. It would literally take me a good couple of minutes to kill a Fallen-Shaman+party...I didn't necessarily die, but just the fact that it took so fucking long to the kill mobs was to tedious.
As for Inferno, it will be difficult, despite the fact that none of us have played it. Blizz said inferno will even be difficult for the most hardcore players. They should know, they're developing the game!! And I'm sure all of dev team have finished D2, you can't possibly say it's gonna be easy...and the fact that monsters' level is always at least 1 level above yours, where D2's highest was 85.
There's no way of knowing how Blizzard calculated that number and what variables were used. But in general people buy PC games and don't complete them. I've bought over 20+ games this year some are the full $60 budget titles, some are the $5 steam sales. But the number I've actually completed this year? Probably about 4-5. And I'm not the only one out there that has a huge backlog of games that will probably never be finished.
The main point of my post was that Difficulty levels of games is usually geared towards the middle to lower end of the spectrum. (Games like Super Meat Boy are the exception, where they target the upper end of Difficulty levels). So assuming a 50% drop off rate for D3 at each mode is actually quite logical.
Let's face it Blizzard as a company is going to gear the game towards the majority. For the super hardcore, that means normal and nightmare is not ever going to be hard enough for you. However, End game WoW Heroic raids are mostly geared for the 1-5% of the wow population that actually like running the same raid 500 times before they actually down the ultimate big boss. I hope that Inferno will not be quite that hard. After all you are expected to run thru Inferno infinite times for item drops. And they have said it will be doable solo.
It will be nerfed in some way, there are A LOT of ways to lower the difficulty of content. And the thing is they are not required to even inform you. For example, people find stealth(Not in Patch Notes) nerfs/buffs in WoW all the time. So there is no guarantee you would know anyways.
New raids on heroic mode pre-nerfs is a bit extreme of a comparison. Diablo is a game that can be solo'd, even at a snails pace if necessary. Its not even remotely similar to Heroic Raids in WoW.
I think new 5 man dungeons would be a better example if you were going to bring up heroics. Not one of those puss Lich King heroics mind you, maybe like Shattered Halls heroic at start of Burning Crusade. Go slow, CC as much as possible, die a few times to unexpected events, and eventually you will make it to the boss.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
So at this point, we've weeded out the casual players and a lot of the semi-hardcore players (of which I consider myself a part of). I expect to finish Hell and try out Inferno but burn out farming in hell because I'm always looking for the next new shiny game out there. In the meanwhile those who reached lvl 90 and beyond in D2 will probably have lots of fun in Inferno.
Basically what I'm saying is, once you complete Hell, its actually in Blizzard's interest to make Inferno as hard as the super hardcore really want. The casuals are gone, the hardcore want Mt Everest to climb and the in turn will be able to sell uber loot that people in Hell can only drool over. Everyone wins.
my point is there is NO WAY to calculate how many beat hell, period. regardless of ANY variable or calculations, the variables are far too high and far too sketchy and non existent to ever calculate anything tangible or usable.
also i think your getting confused in my argument. my point is that most everyone will be ABLE to beat inferno, not that everyone will. i know ALOT of people will quit after norm or nm or hell and the higher up the difficulty the more will drop off, NOT because of difficulty but because they lost interest in the game. for everyone who WANTS to beat inferno, id say 80-90% will be able to. or heck even higher. also i dont think itll take that long at all either, im sure you could say "ya everyone who wants to be inferno will EVENTUALLY but itll take them longer". i also thinks thats false, i just dont see it being that hard in general. unless your seriously retarded or horribly horribly skilled at video games, you'll beat it in a decent amount of time. and hardcore veteran players wont have much trouble.
using wow heroic raids is a bad example, because i COULD beat them all if i tried, i just have no interest in beating those bosses and getting 10 extra item levels. not worth my time because raiding is soooo boring and takes eternity. most dont raid because of how boring it is or more so because they dont have time to spend countless hours doing raids, not because its impossibly hard. heroic wotlk raids werent that hard IMO. but hey to each his own.
since inferno is just one more playthrough of the game just harder, and the game isnt that long at all. i dont see it being unbeatable by the majority. UNLESS right out of the first act you get rushed and 1 shotted by a single zombie even when your in good gear, i just dont see it being anywhere close to that hard. but we will all see when it releases.
Not true, in fact I think you would find that a large percentage of the playerbase, feel cheated if content is beyond their reach. Games are meant to be challenging and fun, not frustrating. People are not going to continue to play a game where they just die constantly, and can never experience the end game content.
Besides, the truly hardcore only make up a very small % of any game. You can partially cater to these individuals as they are loyal customers, but if it forces you to ignore the vast majority, well that is not smart business. D3 only makes money via RMAH sales (and likely selling wings and other novelty crap in online store) if a huge amount of people continue to play the game. Even casual players will want the level 60 legendary equipment, and if it is nearly impossible for them to get outside the AH, then they will be PISSED. And rightfully so really, as they are being cheated. They are paying the full price for the game, yet they are only getting to experience a fraction of it.
The hardcore player, the semi-hardcore player, the moderate player, and the completely casual player will all level at very different rates. They experience the game at different times, which enables Blizzard to change the difficulty as necessary. And over time as they think they are losing the interest of the Hardcore players, they can come out with expansions which once again ramp up the difficulty.
Blizzard has already learned these lessons well from World of Warcraft. In fact, the process of nerf/update has been so intricately incorporated into the philosophy of design that it has just completely taken over. WoW is now trapped within an infinite loop of Nerf/Update.
All those Blizzard quotes you keep linking mean absolutely nothing. They are simply telling the people, who actually read/watch such things, aka hardcore gamers, exactly what they want to hear.
Sort of like this,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfImhHfE-uI&feature=related
I promise you that Doritos will not cause skimpy dressed promiscuous super models to fall from the sky.
Logic trumps advertising every second of every minute of the day.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."
Its called advertisement....You must have somehow missed that really hot girls butt in that nerds face.
Diablo is 100% absolutely T-totally NOTHING like heroic raiding in WoW. A guy recently posted a video of level ones killing the Skeleton King, and in that thread another person claimed that Diablo was also beaten by a level one.
I agree that it will be challenging at first for the moderate player, but nothing impossible as you are insinuating. But that difficulty will come down with time, just as everything else has, even D2.
"Just google "diablo 3 gold guide" and magical rainbow covered demons will assault your eyes."