Having watched a lot of streams and kept up with the news for ros, I would like to compile some small suggestions I've heard from the whole community here that could revitalize the end-game about: trading, pvpve, drop rates.
Trading
Here is a suggestion I made in another thread, but I would like to reiterate it here:
Make ALL items and currencies trade-able with and only with people that were on your friends list/in your clan when the item dropped. Reasons why this is good:
It builds your personal community, encouraging you to have a lot of friends and interact with them
It encourages social interaction between your friends and your clan (respectively), since you have to communicate with them about the loot, mats, or gold you want to exchange with them
It makes it so random strangers is not a part of D3ROS trading, since the max friends you can have is 100 and thus your trade reach is limited
There would be an incentive to keep farming legendaries, even after you have found all the ones you want for your build, since you will be able to sell/exchange them, still benefitting you to find them
PVPVE
Athene made a video suggesting that this would be a core of the endgame and longevity of D3ROS and that it needed to be implemented. Blizz wants balance, and it just simply doesn't exist in PVP for D3V or D3ROS. Thus, the best middle-ground would be PVPVE, where:
You would fight monsters, or waves of monsters, solo or in a coop game and try to get the best time, the best kill streak, or even just beat a harder pack than the other team.
Both teams (maybe more than 2 teams? tournament?) would play in their own instances at the same time as each other.
There could even be a turn based PVPVE where one team (or solo) plays a level and adds a bunch of difficult modifiers to the level they will play, and then the other team, when they come online next, play that same level, matching the difficulty and seeing who got the best time or score or whatever. It's basically like HORSE in basketball, but in D3ROS.
There could be ranked and unranked games, ranking by clan, etc.
This would be good because it would encourage competitive gameplay in an environment whose balancing is already being done for the PVE in-game. Competition, cooperation, and community interaction would all come from this PVPVE system.
Drop Rates
This one is a small change that will also help the longevity of the game. We know that blue said that the drop rates are boosted for the beta, but I still just wanted to say that finding a legendary should still take some amount of time, not 12 legendaries in one rift level (kripp's video).
Conclusion
These are a combination of my suggestions, the overall community requests, and some specific people's suggestions (such as Athene) compiled into a post about D3ROS' longevity. Please feel free to constructively criticize and hope that Blizz sees this!
Traders are a minority, and people in trade channels are a minority. Seems like people would fill their friends lists with anyone and everyone ever encountered in a trade channel or forum.
When you wrote "make all items tradeable for people on your friendslist". I facepalmed, sighed and stopped reading.
Maybe you misread it
It says "Make ALL items and currencies trade-able with and only with people that were on your friends list/in your clan when the item dropped."
That means that adding a person after the item is dropped to trade won't work, only people that were on the friends list at the time of the drop can trade to exchange that item.
What would stop people from adding bots owned by third-party sellers to their friend lists?
That's a very good point. I feel like regardless of any situation, if trading is going to happen in any form, there will be bots/3rd party sites. My response would be that if people REALLY want botted/real money items, let them have it because it doesn't affect the economy as a whole, since your economy is limited to 100 friends, and prices and such would only fluctuate because of the 3rd party sites/botters if they were in your social trade economy (if this suggestion were to be put into place).
Make ALL items and currencies trade-able with and only with people that were on your friends list/in your clan when the item dropped.
No, it's still a restriction. Not going to accept that.
The sad truth is, Blizz made all the legendaries BoA. Simply asking them to make it free for all is pointless, given that it causes a TON of problems for them and for the players. I believe that trying to come up with some sort of middle-ground is the best answer to this issue. Not everyone will be pleased, but accepting the truth of horrible botting and stuff is essential to coming up with a solution
Traders are a minority, and people in trade channels are a minority. Seems like people would fill their friends lists with anyone and everyone ever encountered in a trade channel or forum.
Traders are a minority, and people in trade channels are a minority. Seems like people would fill their friends lists with anyone and everyone ever encountered in a trade channel or forum.
Oh allmighty master of numbers, please share a link with us to the statistics that show that traders are a minority.
Dificulty = MORE DAMAGE AND MORE HP => Crap endgame
i cant even read the numbers!! And it is always the same thing with big numbers.
For a decent endgame:
Dificulty= Monster resistences/imunity (elemental dmg, Physical dmg, CC etc...);
Dificulty=Monster skills: give them skills like an aura or area enchant that reduces players defenses, silence players, stuns and make bosses a real chalenge with skills high AI and FASTER!
Make ALL items and currencies trade-able with and only with people that were on your friends list/in your clan when the item dropped.
No, it's still a restriction. Not going to accept that.
The sad truth is, Blizz made all the legendaries BoA. Simply asking them to make it free for all is pointless, given that it causes a TON of problems for them and for the players. I believe that trying to come up with some sort of middle-ground is the best answer to this issue. Not everyone will be pleased, but accepting the truth of horrible botting and stuff is essential to coming up with a solution
No, not playing will be the better solution for me I guess.
If you just don't want to play, please don't spread negativity. This is a thread for suggestions and constructive feedback, not futile rebuttals.
i) For Blizzard = sold copy -> they made money
ii) For Gamers = more items -> items for the end game are available for cheaper prices
Now please try and give one good reason why a bot is a bad thing for anyone.
1) Bots go against the rules of the game, in that there is no skill involved, just a cheating program that does all the grinding for you
2) Bots inflate prices of the economy in general, since they produce so much more gold then can naturally be collected
3) Bots dehumanize the trading market, causing the game to be less social, and thus less fun
4) Bots find loot not for the sake of finding and using loot, but for the sake of selling it. Normally selling items is fine, but that's only because you sell some of the good stuff you find, not all of it. This overflow of good items causes it to be too easy to get crafting mats, gold, gems, etc.
Traders are a minority, and people in trade channels are a minority. Seems like people would fill their friends lists with anyone and everyone ever encountered in a trade channel or forum.
Oh allmighty master of numbers, please share a link with us to the statistics that show that traders are a minority.
Simple deduction Watson.
1.) Most players are casual.
2.) Casuals usually don't want to waste time spamming chat/forums for trading.
3.) Many non casuals such as myself don't give a flying Fuck about trading. In fact I only traded (not counting friend buffing/buffs from friends) like 4x ever in Diablo 2.
4.) AH <> trading
What would stop people from adding bots owned by third-party sellers to their friend lists?
That's a very good point. I feel like regardless of any situation, if trading is going to happen in any form, there will be bots/3rd party sites. My response would be that if people REALLY want botted/real money items, let them have it because it doesn't affect the economy as a whole, since your economy is limited to 100 friends, and prices and such would only fluctuate because of the 3rd party sites/botters if they were in your social trade economy (if this suggestion were to be put into place).
Right, and 90 / 100 of people's friends will be 3rd party sites who would run thousands of bots. Then those people will just trade to their friends and it would be a chain reaction, then you'll get a lot of people who just spend some money and be BiS.
The argument that "well, just don't buy stuff and the game will last longer" doesn't work. All we have to do is look at the AH economy today. Why on earth would you want to play self found and spend a lot of time farming for legendaries when you can just buy them.
I can guarantee you the norm will turn into having 10-20 bots on your Flist, and when you just can't find that one legendary you want for your build, just buy it! And suddenly ALL the fun is sucked out of the game, just like it is today.
Sorry, but I'm on team BoA. There just isn't a better itteration.
Have you guys actually thought this through? Here's an example.
3rd party site buys 101 accounts. 99 of them are sub botters and are friends with each other putting their list to 98. They all then friend one special bot, and all 100 accounts are linked at 99 /100 friends. That special bot now friends the alpha account, who is now at 1/100 friends. If the website wants to link every batch of farming accounts, then every alpha account will be at 3/100 friends, and there can be as many alpha accounts as the site can buy. You're friends with one of the thousands, you have access to the entire bot economy.
Having watched a lot of streams and kept up with the news for ros, I would like to compile some small suggestions I've heard from the whole community here that could revitalize the end-game about: trading, pvpve, drop rates.
Trading
Here is a suggestion I made in another thread, but I would like to reiterate it here:
Make ALL items and currencies trade-able with and only with people that were on your friends list/in your clan when the item dropped. Reasons why this is good:
It builds your personal community, encouraging you to have a lot of friends and interact with them
It encourages social interaction between your friends and your clan (respectively), since you have to communicate with them about the loot, mats, or gold you want to exchange with them
It makes it so random strangers is not a part of D3ROS trading, since the max friends you can have is 100 and thus your trade reach is limited
There would be an incentive to keep farming legendaries, even after you have found all the ones you want for your build, since you will be able to sell/exchange them, still benefitting you to find them
PVPVE
Athene made a video suggesting that this would be a core of the endgame and longevity of D3ROS and that it needed to be implemented. Blizz wants balance, and it just simply doesn't exist in PVP for D3V or D3ROS. Thus, the best middle-ground would be PVPVE, where:
You would fight monsters, or waves of monsters, solo or in a coop game and try to get the best time, the best kill streak, or even just beat a harder pack than the other team.
Both teams (maybe more than 2 teams? tournament?) would play in their own instances at the same time as each other.
There could even be a turn based PVPVE where one team (or solo) plays a level and adds a bunch of difficult modifiers to the level they will play, and then the other team, when they come online next, play that same level, matching the difficulty and seeing who got the best time or score or whatever. It's basically like HORSE in basketball, but in D3ROS.
There could be ranked and unranked games, ranking by clan, etc.
This would be good because it would encourage competitive gameplay in an environment whose balancing is already being done for the PVE in-game. Competition, cooperation, and community interaction would all come from this PVPVE system.
Drop Rates
This one is a small change that will also help the longevity of the game. We know that blue said that the drop rates are boosted for the beta, but I still just wanted to say that finding a legendary should still take some amount of time, not 12 legendaries in one rift level (kripp's video).
Conclusion
These are a combination of my suggestions, the overall community requests, and some specific people's suggestions (such as Athene) compiled into a post about D3ROS' longevity. Please feel free to constructively criticize and hope that Blizz sees this!
Edit: Grammar
I like the enthusiasm and I like a lot of where the ideas are going. That being said, like others have mentioned, atleast in a typical forum-induced heavily negative and unproductive manner, that they could be reworked into something a little more realistic clearer. I think trading is important to a lot of us, I know its extremely important to me, and I would like to see a way to trade some of the really cool stuff we find. Without trading, it just feels like I'm playing some kind of static RPG off-line on my Playstation or something. When making these suggestions it's extremely important to keep in mind the ways it can be exploited, as others have mentioned. While it may be a fantastic method if everyone were honest and forthright, the ways you described simply leave a lot of room to be manipulated, and thats exactly what we need to avoid going into RoS.
It would be cool to see a trade limit on items. Maybe it can only exchange hands but three times before it's account bound. This would be particularly interesting to me because it leaves some flexibility and uncertainty (which is crucial) for the price of the items to fluctuate because of the remaining opportunities it has to be exchanged. For example, an item may be valued its highest with 2 or 3 opportunities to trade, being an exceptional piece of equipment, as it reaches its final trade limit, it may decrease or increase, because there is the realization that it can no longer be traded. I think a system like this would work best if it said how many exchanges were left on the item description tag.
To build on this further, I think another way of limiting would be to limit how many times gems could be socketed or resocketed (with the "theory" being that every time you resocket/desocket you figuratively (not literally affecting the item) degrade the item until the ability to contain a gem is no longer available) Again, a system like this would be best if it were displayed in the item description how many more resockets the item could handle. What we need here is a funnel of equipment. We would need new items entering the market, and items exiting the market permanently. Systems like this need balance, what we had in Diablo 3 Vanilla was an excruciating amount of items entering the market every day, the effective 99% (anything below the very very best equipment), which would lose value guaranteed in combination with the fact that the best items never expired or left the market. There was such a massive influx of mediocre and crap gear that the best gear would perpetually get more and more valuable and more and more rare. We need a better distribution curve of the items. They have taken measures to address this in part in RoS so we will see how that goes, but we really won't know without the hard data that we get from just having the game out and playing it for hours and hours mulitiplied by the millions of players.
It is so funny that a lot of people don't realize this and look for some scape goat, why this game has no end game purpose. It's not the bots or the economy it is the lack of an end game and the concept this game is based on, there is just nothing to play for, the only thing players play for in this game is for farming more efficiently, by the looks of it nothing will change with the release of RoS, the same all over again.
The best of it, if you want a challenge you can still restrict yourself to play self found, no one is stopping you from doing that, it has again absolutely nothing to do with bots.
I'm not sure that everyone's main goal in Diablo is to close the gap. In my opinion, finding cool items myself is the goal. I want to say that I did that. Not that some code did that and then I paid the botter for it. If items are too readily available through botting, the purpose of farming endgame becomes pointless, since trading with a botter/botting is easier. It's the same problem that happened with the AH, items being too easy to acquire.
Have you guys actually thought this through? Here's an example.
3rd party site buys 101 accounts. 99 of them are sub botters and are friends with each other putting their list to 98. They all then friend one special bot, and all 100 accounts are linked at 99 /100 friends. That special bot now friends the alpha account, who is now at 1/100 friends. If the website wants to link every batch of farming accounts, then every alpha account will be at 3/100 friends, and there can be as many alpha accounts as the site can buy. You're friends with one of the thousands, you have access to the entire bot economy.
Edit; reworded for clarity.
Well then maybe an item can only be traded once, making it useful to that first person, but then removing it from the economy. I believe that would solve a lot of the issues everyone is talking about.
There is just a lack of an end game concept, it should be like this:
Now I have that missing piece of the gear I always wanted, the true game can begin now, which I will enjoy for months to come (it doesn't matter how I got it, bought it from hard earned money I deserved from doing a great job, grinded days for it playing the game, or made a trade for an equal item).
This is how it should look like and not how the above example looks like.
That's a great concept, but I haven't seen any good suggestions on how to execute it. It's sort of like a unicorn in that it can't really exist (so far since at least I haven't seen anything on how to execute this). Do you have anything specific in mind?
I like the enthusiasm and I like a lot of where the ideas are going. That being said, like others have mentioned, atleast in a typical forum-induced heavily negative and unproductive manner, that they could be reworked into something a little more realistic clearer. I think trading is important to a lot of us, I know its extremely important to me, and I would like to see a way to trade some of the really cool stuff we find. Without trading, it just feels like I'm playing some kind of static RPG off-line on my Playstation or something. When making these suggestions it's extremely important to keep in mind the ways it can be exploited, as others have mentioned. While it may be a fantastic method if everyone were honest and forthright, the ways you described simply leave a lot of room to be manipulated, and thats exactly what we need to avoid going into RoS.
It would be cool to see a trade limit on items. Maybe it can only exchange hands but three times before it's account bound.
I totally agree that an item can only be traded once or twice or maybe three times and then it goes account bound. I think that could solve a lot of issues. Not all of them, just a lot of them.
Have you guys actually thought this through? Here's an example.
3rd party site buys 101 accounts. 99 of them are sub botters and are friends with each other putting their list to 98. They all then friend one special bot, and all 100 accounts are linked at 99 /100 friends. That special bot now friends the alpha account, who is now at 1/100 friends. If the website wants to link every batch of farming accounts, then every alpha account will be at 3/100 friends, and there can be as many alpha accounts as the site can buy. You're friends with one of the thousands, you have access to the entire bot economy.
So, what you're saying is that MILLIONS of people should not be able to trade because a couple thousand botters might make a "botters trade network?"
Flawless victory. It's that kind of knee-jerk reaction that leads to very nearsighted "solutions" to "problems."
Botters are bad. They are against the EULA and ToS. They should be dealt with. Period. But the game shouldn't be designed to punish the rest of us because of botters. That's complete madness. That's allowing the inmates to run the asylum and it's simply not how things should be done.
Imagine if Blizzard came out tomorrow and said "we've become aware that Bounties are easily-exploitable by botters, therefore we're removing them." You wouldn't settle for that explanation. You wouldn't settle for something you enjoy being removed simply because botters were exploiting it. You'd (rightly) tell Blizzard to crack down on botters and not to ruin your fun.
The issue with Free economy is you get the same issue you have right now, to many players = insanely low drop chances = get nothing from actually playing.
If nothing was bound, and the drop chances were high enough thatd ud get something from just a few hours of playing you could pretty much get every item u wanted in 1 day by trading of anything you got that you didn't want... So it's either have free economy but have to spend 2 weeks+ farming to get 1 decent item or have no trading but actually get drops at a decent rate.
I agree with everything else.
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Trading
Here is a suggestion I made in another thread, but I would like to reiterate it here:
Make ALL items and currencies trade-able with and only with people that were on your friends list/in your clan when the item dropped. Reasons why this is good:
Athene made a video suggesting that this would be a core of the endgame and longevity of D3ROS and that it needed to be implemented. Blizz wants balance, and it just simply doesn't exist in PVP for D3V or D3ROS. Thus, the best middle-ground would be PVPVE, where:
Drop Rates
This one is a small change that will also help the longevity of the game. We know that blue said that the drop rates are boosted for the beta, but I still just wanted to say that finding a legendary should still take some amount of time, not 12 legendaries in one rift level (kripp's video).
Conclusion
These are a combination of my suggestions, the overall community requests, and some specific people's suggestions (such as Athene) compiled into a post about D3ROS' longevity. Please feel free to constructively criticize and hope that Blizz sees this!
Edit: Grammar
It says "Make ALL items and currencies trade-able with and only with people that were on your friends list/in your clan when the item dropped."
That means that adding a person after the item is dropped to trade won't work, only people that were on the friends list at the time of the drop can trade to exchange that item.
Oh allmighty master of numbers, please share a link with us to the statistics that show that traders are a minority.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Dificulty = MORE DAMAGE AND MORE HP => Crap endgame
i cant even read the numbers!! And it is always the same thing with big numbers.
For a decent endgame:
Dificulty= Monster resistences/imunity (elemental dmg, Physical dmg, CC etc...);
Dificulty=Monster skills: give them skills like an aura or area enchant that reduces players defenses, silence players, stuns and make bosses a real chalenge with skills high AI and FASTER!
2) Bots inflate prices of the economy in general, since they produce so much more gold then can naturally be collected
3) Bots dehumanize the trading market, causing the game to be less social, and thus less fun
4) Bots find loot not for the sake of finding and using loot, but for the sake of selling it. Normally selling items is fine, but that's only because you sell some of the good stuff you find, not all of it. This overflow of good items causes it to be too easy to get crafting mats, gold, gems, etc.
Simple deduction Watson.
1.) Most players are casual.
2.) Casuals usually don't want to waste time spamming chat/forums for trading.
3.) Many non casuals such as myself don't give a flying Fuck about trading. In fact I only traded (not counting friend buffing/buffs from friends) like 4x ever in Diablo 2.
4.) AH <> trading
Right, and 90 / 100 of people's friends will be 3rd party sites who would run thousands of bots. Then those people will just trade to their friends and it would be a chain reaction, then you'll get a lot of people who just spend some money and be BiS.
The argument that "well, just don't buy stuff and the game will last longer" doesn't work. All we have to do is look at the AH economy today. Why on earth would you want to play self found and spend a lot of time farming for legendaries when you can just buy them.
I can guarantee you the norm will turn into having 10-20 bots on your Flist, and when you just can't find that one legendary you want for your build, just buy it! And suddenly ALL the fun is sucked out of the game, just like it is today.
Sorry, but I'm on team BoA. There just isn't a better itteration.
3rd party site buys 101 accounts. 99 of them are sub botters and are friends with each other putting their list to 98. They all then friend one special bot, and all 100 accounts are linked at 99 /100 friends. That special bot now friends the alpha account, who is now at 1/100 friends. If the website wants to link every batch of farming accounts, then every alpha account will be at 3/100 friends, and there can be as many alpha accounts as the site can buy. You're friends with one of the thousands, you have access to the entire bot economy.
Edit; reworded for clarity.
I like the enthusiasm and I like a lot of where the ideas are going. That being said, like others have mentioned, atleast in a typical forum-induced heavily negative and unproductive manner, that they could be reworked into something
a little more realisticclearer. I think trading is important to a lot of us, I know its extremely important to me, and I would like to see a way to trade some of the really cool stuff we find. Without trading, it just feels like I'm playing some kind of static RPG off-line on my Playstation or something. When making these suggestions it's extremely important to keep in mind the ways it can be exploited, as others have mentioned. While it may be a fantastic method if everyone were honest and forthright, the ways you described simply leave a lot of room to be manipulated, and thats exactly what we need to avoid going into RoS.It would be cool to see a trade limit on items. Maybe it can only exchange hands but three times before it's account bound. This would be particularly interesting to me because it leaves some flexibility and uncertainty (which is crucial) for the price of the items to fluctuate because of the remaining opportunities it has to be exchanged. For example, an item may be valued its highest with 2 or 3 opportunities to trade, being an exceptional piece of equipment, as it reaches its final trade limit, it may decrease or increase, because there is the realization that it can no longer be traded. I think a system like this would work best if it said how many exchanges were left on the item description tag.
To build on this further, I think another way of limiting would be to limit how many times gems could be socketed or resocketed (with the "theory" being that every time you resocket/desocket you figuratively (not literally affecting the item) degrade the item until the ability to contain a gem is no longer available) Again, a system like this would be best if it were displayed in the item description how many more resockets the item could handle. What we need here is a funnel of equipment. We would need new items entering the market, and items exiting the market permanently. Systems like this need balance, what we had in Diablo 3 Vanilla was an excruciating amount of items entering the market every day, the effective 99% (anything below the very very best equipment), which would lose value guaranteed in combination with the fact that the best items never expired or left the market. There was such a massive influx of mediocre and crap gear that the best gear would perpetually get more and more valuable and more and more rare. We need a better distribution curve of the items. They have taken measures to address this in part in RoS so we will see how that goes, but we really won't know without the hard data that we get from just having the game out and playing it for hours and hours mulitiplied by the millions of players.
So, what you're saying is that MILLIONS of people should not be able to trade because a couple thousand botters might make a "botters trade network?"
Flawless victory. It's that kind of knee-jerk reaction that leads to very nearsighted "solutions" to "problems."
Botters are bad. They are against the EULA and ToS. They should be dealt with. Period. But the game shouldn't be designed to punish the rest of us because of botters. That's complete madness. That's allowing the inmates to run the asylum and it's simply not how things should be done.
Imagine if Blizzard came out tomorrow and said "we've become aware that Bounties are easily-exploitable by botters, therefore we're removing them." You wouldn't settle for that explanation. You wouldn't settle for something you enjoy being removed simply because botters were exploiting it. You'd (rightly) tell Blizzard to crack down on botters and not to ruin your fun.
If nothing was bound, and the drop chances were high enough thatd ud get something from just a few hours of playing you could pretty much get every item u wanted in 1 day by trading of anything you got that you didn't want... So it's either have free economy but have to spend 2 weeks+ farming to get 1 decent item or have no trading but actually get drops at a decent rate.
I agree with everything else.