In order to really understand what this means, you have to breakdown what makes a Diablo game difficult. For simplicity sake, I've chosen 4 aspects of a Diablo game that when varied, make the game more challenging as the Acts go on:
1) Overall Monster Strength
- Health
- Damage Delivered
2) Monster Characteristics
- # of Mods
- Quality of Mods (teleport -> waller)
3) Monster AI
- Attack patterns
- Reactions to your attack patterns
4) Level Design
- Physical layout (can restrict movement)
- Presence of level specific traps and obstacles
It's fairly easy to see how you can vary Monster Strength and Characteristics to make an Act more challenging. Increase their health, damage, mods, and you got a monster that's harder to kill, and easier to be killed by.
I could see how Monster AI may be increased in the earlier Acts to make them more difficult, but a lot of the attack patterns and such are directly related to the character model. A zombie that limps around and pukes on you is always going to limp around and puke on you. A demon with a giant axe is always going to wind up and swing. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it would take a lot of extra effort to enhance the early Act Monster AI to match the AI of the monsters found in the later Acts.
Level Design is probably the most static of the 4. Yeah, you may be able to adjust them slightly, but I don't see a lava pit being added to the Weaping Hollow's anytime soon.
Assuming that Monster AI and Level Design are pretty static (relatively not completely), Blizzard is left with Monster Strength and Characteristics as a means to match early Act difficulty to later Act difficulty. Because the game's difficulty is a sum of all 4 of these aspects and the early acts don't have the character model's with crazy AI and levels with build it traps, obstacles, etc., you literally have to make the monsters in the earlier acts take more damage, hit harder, and have more mods than the monsters in the later acts.
Does that seem right to you?
Let's hyyyypothetically say that Blizzard is able to establish a linear challenge across all 4 acts. The Skeleton King hits like King Kong on PCP but he still does the same old "teleport into a pirouette with a giant mace" move -- Diablo hits like a baby Pandarian but at least "he's got skills" (red lightning, bow hunting, computer hacking, etc.).
Loot drops can finally be equal across all 4 acts!!! Are you happy? Let's think about it...
Assuming Blizzard makes us start in Act 1 without access to the later Acts initially, most of us will likely start with farming Act 1. You spend a few days/weeks farming Act 1 and you get some sweet loot. Now you move on to Act 2 with your upgraded loot, but the game isn't any harder. Because you're so excited to be in Act 2 you don't think too much of it so you go about your farming and by chance, find some even better loot! Alright! Now we're gearing up and we're ready for Acts 3 and 4 which are now going to be easier than the previous two Acts because of all of our sweet loot.
THIS IS SOOO AWESSSS... wait a minute, this sucks.
Are you starting to see what Blizz was seeing in their play testing? I am. So what's the alternative?
The alternative is to let the Skeleton King be a delicate, teleporting ballarina and let Diablo be Diablo in all *cough* her *cough* glory. Embrace the inherently increasing challenge that a Diablo game feeds us as we progress through each Act. And loot away! Give us the good stuff! Yeah, some of the best stuff will be saved for last, but by increasing the games difficulty with each Act, quality of loot dropping in Inferno can be pretty close to linear without sacrificing the quality of the gaming experience.
The people whining about these changes are the same ones who would say: "Inferno is just too easy, give us more end-game content" if they left it how it was.
Besides, under the old system, everyone would play until someone found the easiest spot to farm and then everyone would stop there and farm. If it was in Act I, no one would play any further than act I. This way, there is incentive for playing all the way through inferno.
If you're saying that people would whine over how it was before, that it would be too easy. Whyyyy would they make it even easier then?
You're saying that people would find the best spot to farm, how would they do that if they haven't tried the other acts? Also there will never be "the most awesome place ever to farm", more like 1 tiny better place than the others. So only bots would run that one place all the time. So there's already enough incentive(if thats needed) to go through the other acts.
How would people find the best spot to farm? Google. It won't happen on release day, but after a couple weeks people will know the best spots.
The best spots to farm would be somewhere close to a waypoint where there are likely champion mobs (Nephalem Valor) and also close to a boss. See I haven't even played the beta and I know the best places to farm in Inferno.
EDIT: I forgot, they only said the beginning would be easier. I'm sure the OVERALL difficulty of inferno was actually harder than before.
Loot drops can finally be equal across all 4 acts!!! Are you happy? Let's think about it...
Assuming Blizzard makes us start in Act 1 without access to the later Acts initially, most of us will likely start with farming Act 1. You spend a few days/weeks farming Act 1 and you get some sweet loot. Now you move on to Act 2 with your upgraded loot, but the game isn't any harder. Because you're so excited to be in Act 2 you don't think too much of it so you go about your farming and by chance, find some even better loot! Alright! Now we're gearing up and we're ready for Acts 3 and 4 which are now going to be easier than the previous two Acts because of all of our sweet loot.
THIS IS SOOO AWESSSS... wait a minute, this sucks.
This is exactly it for me. 100% agree. I'd like to hear some counters to this from the people who want consistent difficulty across Inferno.
Inferno isn't as much about progressing(if it is at all) as it is about farming, inferno was intended to give the players who like farming a consistent challenge.
I wouldn't spend my first week in inferno farming Act 1, since Act 2 would be as difficult I would move on, because where's the fun in farming the same place over and over (as we will be now).
Since I didn't farm Act 1 for weeks Act 2 won't be super easy(im not saying it will be super easy, but you get the point), instead it will as challenging as any part of Inferno, great!
The only problem was that there was a brick wall, but that brick wall is not bad at all and we who could climb it could then spend our time on a whole difficulty having fun, instead we are forced to spend all our time on the last two acts
SOOO AWESSSSS.... no wait its not.
You casuals have 3 difficulties to enjoy your game, give us 1 atleast, please
How exactly is this new system more or less casual friendly? And how do you know if I'm casual or hardcore? If the later acts are MORE difficult now than they were before doesn't that make it more hardcore? If its less difficult, then I suppose that makes it more casual. Even though I seriously doubt any "casual" player will make it to inferno in the foreseeable future.
Also, you didn't really address the idea that every piece of loot you attain will make it easier, so with the old system the game is actually getting easier as you progress. You said you wouldn't take time out to farm, but you're still going to improve your gear.
So, they add Inferno to have a "flat" difficulty, and now they change their mind? Why don't they scrap it altogether then? 3 difficulties is more than enough.
The new system is ofcourse more casual friendly since it DECREASED the difficulty of Inferno, probably by alot. We made Act III and Act IV really, really brutally hard, for the most elite players only. It felt wrong to make ALL of Inferno that brutally hard.
So they aren't more difficult.
And I did address the idea that you will attain loot while going through Inferno, even if you don't stay to farm.
Yes, you will get gear so the later Acts will most likely be easier than the first one. BUT since you didn't stay to farm you will not "outgear" the content, not even closely, so it does not matter at all. For a player who just wants to enjoy farming and having fun in a difficult game, I couldn't care the slightest bit that Diablo will be a tiny bit easier than some boss in an earlier act, you had 3 difficulties to enjoy that, instead you would have been able to enjoy a whole difficulty being hard!
Fair enough, the amount of gear you'll get in a run through probably won't be sufficient to have a huge impact on the difficulty on a single run through.
I'm still not convinced that the overall level of difficulty in inferno has increased or decreased. All we know is that Acts 3 and 4 are more difficult than 1 and 2 right now. Maybe they tweaked it to be harder and then decided it was too hard for the whole game, but wanted the end to be even more difficult than originally planned.
Personally, I was fine with the static difficulty and was a fan of it as well. But I actually prefer the later acts to be more difficult.
What would be the point to progress through act 1 if they hadn't changed the old system? I mean I can farm act 1 all the time as the drop is the same as in act 4, so there is no need to play through it.
Unless your like me and half the other people on here who play for challenges like this.. I mean c'mon. Farming gets old after a while and people want a break from that. Even PvP. Ever play the Ubers in D2? That was some of the funnest moments I had with friends even though its impossible to do unless you had a smiter pally, now this on the other hand. This is an acceptable challenge
Thank you Blizz
"I'm just getting started. I'm gonna pull the whole thing down. I gonna bring the whole fuckin' diseased, corrupt temple down on your heads. It's gonna be Biblical."
If you can find anything to prove me wrong on the day of release I'd gladly admit that I am wrong, but let's just say I won't be having any expectations.
The Diablo III beta test server is currently undergoing maintenance. We anticipate that downtime as a result of this maintenance will be minimal, lasting for approximately 1 to 2 hours.
We'll provide another update once the beta is live, or should our maintenance schedule change. Thank you for your patience!
Ugh, this is kinda disappointing but if it's the same level of difficulty/drops for act 1,2 the same for act 3,4, and if inferno overall is as insanely hard as they claim it to be then I could see that a distinction between 'somewhat bearable' inferno and 'hardcore elite e-peen' inferno is needed.
Loot drops can finally be equal across all 4 acts!!! Are you happy? Let's think about it...
Assuming Blizzard makes us start in Act 1 without access to the later Acts initially, most of us will likely start with farming Act 1. You spend a few days/weeks farming Act 1 and you get some sweet loot. Now you move on to Act 2 with your upgraded loot, but the game isn't any harder. Because you're so excited to be in Act 2 you don't think too much of it so you go about your farming and by chance, find some even better loot! Alright! Now we're gearing up and we're ready for Acts 3 and 4 which are now going to be easier than the previous two Acts because of all of our sweet loot.
THIS IS SOOO AWESSSS... wait a minute, this sucks.
This is exactly it for me. 100% agree. I'd like to hear some counters to this from the people who want consistent difficulty across Inferno.
Inferno isn't as much about progressing(if it is at all) as it is about farming, inferno was intended to give the players who like farming a consistent challenge.
I wouldn't spend my first week in inferno farming Act 1, since Act 2 would be as difficult I would move on, because where's the fun in farming the same place over and over (as we will be now).
Since I didn't farm Act 1 for weeks Act 2 won't be super easy(im not saying it will be super easy, but you get the point), instead it will as challenging as any part of Inferno, great!
The only problem was that there was a brick wall, but that brick wall is not bad at all and we who could climb it could then spend our time on a whole difficulty having fun, instead we are forced to spend all our time on the last two acts
SOOO AWESSSSS.... no wait its not.
You casuals have 3 difficulties to enjoy your game, give us 1 atleast, please
I think you missed my point. Conceptually, a consistant difficulty level across all Acts is a great idea. Given the limitations of the 4 aspects (described) that contribute to an Act's difficulty, it's not possible to create such consistancy without making the game awkward. The only way to do it would be to have harder hitting monsters early on in the game because their character models limit their AI potential - not to mention the friendlier level designs.
My point was that I think Blizzard ran discovered this while trying to create this equilibrium of a challenge and just decided to embrace it rather than distort the natural progression of the 4 Acts. My comments regarding the game getting easier in the previous Inferno iteration were just to highlight that there are pro's and con's to each scenario.
I'm okay with this change I preffer an increasing difficulty to a flat one. I agree that it doesn't feel right. I also trust them to make A1 and A2 the equivalent of mephisto runs in D2 where even if you could do baal runs, the fact that it is easier compensates for less chance in loots.
This is utterly stupid and dumb, the flat difficulty in inferno was the whole purpose of inferno, even if the monster are still 60-61-62, now they will be stronger on later acts, therefore you will technically "out-level" content by out-gearing the first two acts since gear will be tune to reflect the later difficulty of inferno, THIS IS THE WORST DECISION they could made on core design intent for D3, far worse than runes, enchanting and whatever non-issue people cry about.
Normal, nightmare and hell already have a difficulty curve, once 60 do we really need another pseudo difficulty level by then?
Fair enough, the amount of gear you'll get in a run through probably won't be sufficient to have a huge impact on the difficulty on a single run through.
I'm still not convinced that the overall level of difficulty in inferno has increased or decreased. All we know is that Acts 3 and 4 are more difficult than 1 and 2 right now. Maybe they tweaked it to be harder and then decided it was too hard for the whole game, but wanted the end to be even more difficult than originally planned.
Personally, I was fine with the static difficulty and was a fan of it as well. But I actually prefer the later acts to be more difficult.
Hopefully you're right about not being sure if the difficulty is increased or decreased.
Sorry for quoting this again but: We made Act III and Act IV really, really brutally hard, for the most elite players only. It felt wrong to make ALL of Inferno that brutally hard.
The "that" does in my opinion confirm that the other acts was as hard as the last act is now, but they've been decreased.
This is stupid logic. They never said a decrease, all I read is that they made Acts 3 and 4 now BRUTALLY hard. AKA, they wanted to increase the difficulty even more to give a ladder effect on the progressing acts difficulty.
Let's remember. All monster in inferno are 61+. How would they lower the monster level in acts 1 to make it harder than hell if they had to go to level 60 or lower for inferno. Doesn't make sense.
Hmm. I'd like to see them at least include an unlockable option after finishing Inferno, where you can enable the max level monsters throughout all acts. I was kind of excited about that feature, and I'm a bit sad to see it go away.
1) Overall Monster Strength
- Health
- Damage Delivered
2) Monster Characteristics
- # of Mods
- Quality of Mods (teleport -> waller)
3) Monster AI
- Attack patterns
- Reactions to your attack patterns
4) Level Design
- Physical layout (can restrict movement)
- Presence of level specific traps and obstacles
It's fairly easy to see how you can vary Monster Strength and Characteristics to make an Act more challenging. Increase their health, damage, mods, and you got a monster that's harder to kill, and easier to be killed by.
I could see how Monster AI may be increased in the earlier Acts to make them more difficult, but a lot of the attack patterns and such are directly related to the character model. A zombie that limps around and pukes on you is always going to limp around and puke on you. A demon with a giant axe is always going to wind up and swing. I'm not saying it's impossible, I'm saying it would take a lot of extra effort to enhance the early Act Monster AI to match the AI of the monsters found in the later Acts.
Level Design is probably the most static of the 4. Yeah, you may be able to adjust them slightly, but I don't see a lava pit being added to the Weaping Hollow's anytime soon.
Assuming that Monster AI and Level Design are pretty static (relatively not completely), Blizzard is left with Monster Strength and Characteristics as a means to match early Act difficulty to later Act difficulty. Because the game's difficulty is a sum of all 4 of these aspects and the early acts don't have the character model's with crazy AI and levels with build it traps, obstacles, etc., you literally have to make the monsters in the earlier acts take more damage, hit harder, and have more mods than the monsters in the later acts.
Does that seem right to you?
Let's hyyyypothetically say that Blizzard is able to establish a linear challenge across all 4 acts. The Skeleton King hits like King Kong on PCP but he still does the same old "teleport into a pirouette with a giant mace" move -- Diablo hits like a baby Pandarian but at least "he's got skills" (red lightning, bow hunting, computer hacking, etc.).
Loot drops can finally be equal across all 4 acts!!! Are you happy? Let's think about it...
Assuming Blizzard makes us start in Act 1 without access to the later Acts initially, most of us will likely start with farming Act 1. You spend a few days/weeks farming Act 1 and you get some sweet loot. Now you move on to Act 2 with your upgraded loot, but the game isn't any harder. Because you're so excited to be in Act 2 you don't think too much of it so you go about your farming and by chance, find some even better loot! Alright! Now we're gearing up and we're ready for Acts 3 and 4 which are now going to be easier than the previous two Acts because of all of our sweet loot.
THIS IS SOOO AWESSSS... wait a minute, this sucks.
Are you starting to see what Blizz was seeing in their play testing? I am. So what's the alternative?
The alternative is to let the Skeleton King be a delicate, teleporting ballarina and let Diablo be Diablo in all *cough* her *cough* glory. Embrace the inherently increasing challenge that a Diablo game feeds us as we progress through each Act. And loot away! Give us the good stuff! Yeah, some of the best stuff will be saved for last, but by increasing the games difficulty with each Act, quality of loot dropping in Inferno can be pretty close to linear without sacrificing the quality of the gaming experience.
Is it May 15th yet?
How would people find the best spot to farm? Google. It won't happen on release day, but after a couple weeks people will know the best spots.
The best spots to farm would be somewhere close to a waypoint where there are likely champion mobs (Nephalem Valor) and also close to a boss. See I haven't even played the beta and I know the best places to farm in Inferno.
EDIT: I forgot, they only said the beginning would be easier. I'm sure the OVERALL difficulty of inferno was actually harder than before.
This is exactly it for me. 100% agree. I'd like to hear some counters to this from the people who want consistent difficulty across Inferno.
How exactly is this new system more or less casual friendly? And how do you know if I'm casual or hardcore? If the later acts are MORE difficult now than they were before doesn't that make it more hardcore? If its less difficult, then I suppose that makes it more casual. Even though I seriously doubt any "casual" player will make it to inferno in the foreseeable future.
Also, you didn't really address the idea that every piece of loot you attain will make it easier, so with the old system the game is actually getting easier as you progress. You said you wouldn't take time out to farm, but you're still going to improve your gear.
And no... I'm not biased.
Fair enough, the amount of gear you'll get in a run through probably won't be sufficient to have a huge impact on the difficulty on a single run through.
I'm still not convinced that the overall level of difficulty in inferno has increased or decreased. All we know is that Acts 3 and 4 are more difficult than 1 and 2 right now. Maybe they tweaked it to be harder and then decided it was too hard for the whole game, but wanted the end to be even more difficult than originally planned.
Personally, I was fine with the static difficulty and was a fan of it as well. But I actually prefer the later acts to be more difficult.
Unless your like me and half the other people on here who play for challenges like this.. I mean c'mon. Farming gets old after a while and people want a break from that. Even PvP. Ever play the Ubers in D2? That was some of the funnest moments I had with friends even though its impossible to do unless you had a smiter pally, now this on the other hand. This is an acceptable challenge
Thank you Blizz
- Clay Shelton
I'll hold you to that
Originally Posted by (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
We'll provide another update once the beta is live, or should our maintenance schedule change. Thank you for your patience!
I farmed all acts in Diablo 2. I see myself doing the same in D3
I think you missed my point. Conceptually, a consistant difficulty level across all Acts is a great idea. Given the limitations of the 4 aspects (described) that contribute to an Act's difficulty, it's not possible to create such consistancy without making the game awkward. The only way to do it would be to have harder hitting monsters early on in the game because their character models limit their AI potential - not to mention the friendlier level designs.
My point was that I think Blizzard ran discovered this while trying to create this equilibrium of a challenge and just decided to embrace it rather than distort the natural progression of the 4 Acts. My comments regarding the game getting easier in the previous Inferno iteration were just to highlight that there are pro's and con's to each scenario.
Imagine inferno "beta" part vs the rest of the game. They'd have to flood the zone with monsters.
Normal, nightmare and hell already have a difficulty curve, once 60 do we really need another pseudo difficulty level by then?
They never said anything about DECREASING difficulty, where are people getting this idiotic notion from?
They said they're INCREASING the difficulty on Acts 3 and 4 to make it an ELITE level.
TL;DR You can't satisfy everyone. Might as well stop arguing with the fools that think this is a bad change.
Let's put it this way. Would you rather have the Skeleton King and the LORD OF TERROR have the exact same difficulty? No.
This is stupid logic. They never said a decrease, all I read is that they made Acts 3 and 4 now BRUTALLY hard. AKA, they wanted to increase the difficulty even more to give a ladder effect on the progressing acts difficulty.
Let's remember. All monster in inferno are 61+. How would they lower the monster level in acts 1 to make it harder than hell if they had to go to level 60 or lower for inferno. Doesn't make sense.
I approve the change, haters gonna hate.
See you at release lol.