Ok, so I dont know if I am missing something here or not. People are arguing that they are basically taking out the players choice and consequences for their actions because you can freely choose which skills to use at any given time (which I agree). So, what if the player still had to choose which skill to use out of their 6 and they could not change it after they selected it. The skills still scale with level and are made more powerful. With that being said, you keep respec in the game to change your 6 skills that are alotted to you. This way, the players choices have consequences, there is a cost to change skills around, and this still eliminates the skill system. I just dont think that people should be able to choose whatever skill to use at any given time, that just doesnt make since to me. You are going to use whatever skill set is effective for whatever types of monsters you are fighting at that time and change it as you go. I dont feel like people have to make very many decisions and everything is handed to you on a silver platter. If anything, they should make it where it costs the player something to change their 6 skills around...by thats just me, anyone see any problems with this?
This is exactly what a couple of other people and I have asked for. It retains their system and allows us to actually make choices beyond putting them in our skill bar.
1. You don't know ANYTHING about limits and costs of respecs or anything yet... wait for it before you complain, there will be costs and respec limits.
2. Respeccing skills in 6 + 3 is not that easy and fast, once you choose your skills you are supposed to stick with them for a while, so choose wisely.
3. Runestones makes you focus on which 6 spells you want to be using alot, so, you don't want to just use all spells all time. You want to use the spells you think is fun and the spells which u play with best, and focus on them with runes, items, gems etc..
4. You can't switch spells on the fly, while in combat, or even in a dungeon.
5. Not being able to change the 6 spells you choose, would be the same as D2 in away, you CAN always respec, if u wanna try anothe rbuild, and u can always refocus ur runes, but it takes alot of cost and work to do so.
Know what, after reading the new rune revision I think it'll be ok. Id still rather have to choose my skills and respec if needed but I can deal with having all skills. The true customization comes in finding the right rune for your favorite skills. The skills are just like a demo at the moment, once you find the right rune with the right stats that makes the skill a skill.
And if they actually put variation on the runes and make them hard to find, that will make characters unique in the sense I am looking for.
Know what, after reading the new rune revision I think it'll be ok. Id still rather have to choose my skills and respec if needed but I can deal with having all skills. The true customization comes in finding the right rune for your favorite skills. The skills are just like a demo at the moment, once you find the right rune with the right stats that makes the skill a skill.
And if they actually put variation on the runes and make them hard to find, that will make characters unique in the sense I am looking for.
I agree too, after reading about the possible revisions to the rune system, it will create a lot more consequences when it comes to selecting skills and sticking runes to it, but only high level runes, sicne apparently low level runes drop like candy. You can use the low level runes to find what runes work and which ones dont, so I guess your high level runes better get a good roll or your off to find more...
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IF IT MEANS THAT WE CAN EACH HAVE A VARIATION TO FIGHT STYLE AND GAME PLAY WITHOUT THE LABELING OF BUILDS THEN I AM ALL FOR IT. Nothing worse than having 4 players on screen with same build info.....boring!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Like i said before "Blizzard knows what they are doing". Let them do it.
A) Bring back 'skill points', but give one major and two minor per character. So each player has six skills... one major buffed, two minor buffed, and three regular. This adds further customization on top of the six skills one makes their build from. I think it can greatly add to the complexity of the game, while avoiding the pitfalls that made skill points unfun.
A lock-in system for old characters. Once you've found a skill set you love, you can lock it in, announcing to the world that that is who your character is.
Thoughts on the removal of skill points:
1) They now CAN make a 1/2 skill system not viable, by balancing the game to need more than 1/2 skills. If Whirlwind can kill every monster on screen, every time, then it will have a cooldown or resource cost to make that impossible. You will need to fill that gap with another skill, either an attack or a resource regen. Then, this can be repeated until you need at least 3 skills to have no downtime, etc. The only way you would be able to get away with only using 1/2 skills is then if those skills are to weak to clear the screen of monsters by themselves.
2) The skill point system in D2 was dumb for the reasons Mr. Wilson states... having to save points while leveling is just against the way one feels a game should be played. As others point out, the synergies made it worse. Anyways, who wants to play a game for 3 hours, and have cast the same spell 30,000 times, and nothing else?
3) I think what players will miss is the sense of identity that comes with choosing a certain build. Who knows if the barbarian you see is really into swinging axes, or just testing it out before swapping skills? When every player of a certain class can wake up tomorrow and respec the same way, that makes one feel not unique.
4) Similarly, players seem to be worried about the current degree of customizability. In D2, even two characters with the same skills could (theoretically at least) have a different point spread, and therefore a different emphasis on different skills. It seems like what Mr. Wilson was saying was that they couldn't build this degree of complication into D3 without it being only skin deep... it would seem like there were a lot of choices, but really there were only a couple ways to do it 'right'. Yet the idea of two characters choosing the same 6 skills, but playing them slightly different, is interesting. One character might use skill A as a main attack, and B situationally, while another uses B regularly, and A only occasionally.
5) Replayability vs. time. The nice thing about the system laid out for D3 is the ability to play around and test a skill/build. Once you find one you consider optimal for you, bam, you're an axe barb. But tomorrow, you could be a sword barb, and that makes the original choice less meaningful since there was no cost in making it. A system with locked-in builds helps replayability, and is good for those who can/do play a lot. A system with respecs is good for those who shouldn't have to play for 10 hours just to try out swords instead of axes. I feel for both groups.
Thanks for reading. Edit: inadvertent smiley, lolz.
Ok, so I dont know if I am missing something here or not. People are arguing that they are basically taking out the players choice and consequences for their actions because you can freely choose which skills to use at any given time (which I agree). So, what if the player still had to choose which skill to use out of their 6 and they could not change it after they selected it. The skills still scale with level and are made more powerful. With that being said, you keep respec in the game to change your 6 skills that are alotted to you. This way, the players choices have consequences, there is a cost to change skills around, and this still eliminates the skill system. I just dont think that people should be able to choose whatever skill to use at any given time, that just doesnt make since to me. You are going to use whatever skill set is effective for whatever types of monsters you are fighting at that time and change it as you go. I dont feel like people have to make very many decisions and everything is handed to you on a silver platter. If anything, they should make it where it costs the player something to change their 6 skills around...by thats just me, anyone see any problems with this?
This is exactly what a couple of other people and I have asked for. It retains their system and allows us to actually make choices beyond putting them in our skill bar.
1. You don't know ANYTHING about limits and costs of respecs or anything yet... wait for it before you complain, there will be costs and respec limits.
2. Respeccing skills in 6 + 3 is not that easy and fast, once you choose your skills you are supposed to stick with them for a while, so choose wisely.
3. Runestones makes you focus on which 6 spells you want to be using alot, so, you don't want to just use all spells all time. You want to use the spells you think is fun and the spells which u play with best, and focus on them with runes, items, gems etc..
4. You can't switch spells on the fly, while in combat, or even in a dungeon.
5. Not being able to change the 6 spells you choose, would be the same as D2 in away, you CAN always respec, if u wanna try anothe rbuild, and u can always refocus ur runes, but it takes alot of cost and work to do so.
1. Respeccing is gone with the new system, so yea...did I miss your point?
2. Since Respeccing is gone, you can easily change your skills back and forth on the fly. No need to choose wisely..
3. I agree that runes will make you stick with some skills, but once you start using high level runes, you would have already found the build that works best for you and stick to those skills.
4. I havent seen a quote stating that you cannot change skills in a dungeon? Please provide...
5. As it stands now, you can change skills freely and there is no cost to you. That is why I want players to choose their skills and it is locked until you respec. Which needs to be added to the current system.
Honestly, I think you might be confused regarding the new system and that respec is out the window...
1. Respeccing meant as respecializing your initial 6 + 3 skills... this is not gone, and perhaps they will most likely make a limitation on how you do that of some kind or a cost perhaps. . wait and see.
2. As i said. respeccing is still in the game, u choose your skills, but u cannot do it in combat or any situation where you need it. So you need to choose skills wisely, before u enter a battle, or boss fight.
3. Not nescessarily. If you know that u want to use a high lvl skill with a high lvl rune, once you unlock it, then you go change your skill to that, active skill to get it + rune. or u might just want to have a low unlock skill with cool runes all along... depends on what u like, and what the spell does. Maybe you wanted to change your skills completely mid-ways into the game...
4. Trust me, it won't be possible. I haven't a direct source, but it would be stupid not to be able to do that, since it's ACTIVE skills. You make a choice. I believe Jay once said this. Regardless, just wait and see before you whine about it. GAME ISN'T EVEN OUT YET.
5. Skills ARE locked. You choose 6 + 3 and you can't choose anymore. You stick with that. If you wanna respec you can, but not all the time, in combat, and maybe it will cost...
But most importantly, the player dont want to switch all the time, because u choose the skills u want a some point, and then make runes in them to focus.
So, after reading your e-rage. I see that you are actually agreeing with my original argument since you assume that you cannot change skills freely and that it will possibly cost something to change you skills. Furthermore, I am not whining, I am just providing alternative views regarding the new system. Dont join a forum and start mouthing off to people who are just giving there two cents regarding recent changes. I know the game isnt out yet and we wont know how any of this will work until we play it...
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1. There is no need? Who says that? YOU create your OWN needs. That statement from you is weird. You do what you want. Why you do WANT to have a restriction to HAVE to make a new character everytime you wanna try something new or just a little different? That's insanely stupid and not fun.
If you WANT to make a new character and start fresh.. then do it ? What's stopping you? Nobody. Just never respec or change skills and start fresh 1-60.. same build.. try it.. what is wrong with that?
Just cos blizzard doesn't MAKE you do it anymore, doesn't mean it wrong or bad.
2. So clicking 5 times on a little button is very important to you? In diablo 2, raising vitality 5 points didn't matter AT ALL really... the small attribute points was skewed, and it was just plain a stupid design. Besides, it wasnt even every level that u got to spend attribute points and get new skills... in diablo 2, you just "rose" in level as well.. but u unlocked new stuff sometimes.. it was good.
In diablo 3, you fight and when u get new lvl.. ding.. u know u got alot of new stuff... newer spells, more attributes, more stuff to explore and gather.. if u want to feel powerful, then just click randomly on your scree nand imagine your stats rising lols
First of all, calm down, I already said I am not trolling, just trying to understand how the new system deals with these aspects.
1. There is no incentive to make another character, thus the majority won't. So, you make a character for every class, reach lvl 60, and then what? Start swapping skills to see another builds at lvl 60. Meanwhile while the other players do the same, wouldn't it simply reduce drastically low-level characters and thus make people just bore from the game quicker? I am talking about replayability, and it seems reduced, don't you agree? This approach seems really better for a first play, I am not arguing about that, but the replayability that has always been one of the greatest aspects of the franchise, at least for now, seems greatly reduced.
2. Well, Diablo 2 skill points seemed really relevant and worth waiting in D2, even being stupid to wait to max only some skills, but all the planning went back every level that you had th rethink your character and see where you were going. Just as all the other RPGs. You say new spells with lvl up in D3, but weren't all skills available since the beginning? Right now I understand that lvl up will only get them stronger, am I wrong?
Getting rid of skill points forces the character customization to be based on equipment.
Customization = equipment --> trading --> $$ for Blizzard
We can still customize...for a price (which is a good business model)
Getting rid of skill points forces the character customization to be based on equipment.
Customization = equipment --> trading --> $$ for Blizzard
We can still customize...for a price (which is a good business model)
Getting rid of skill points forces the character customization to be based on equipment.
Customization = equipment --> trading --> $$ for Blizzard
We can still customize...for a price (which is a good business model)
Got a point, since now to truely customize your characters you will need runes which will mean trading which will lead to money in Blizzards pocket. That's not to say money won't be in your pocket also or you won't find the gear you want or someone else wants.
This doesn't solve any of their problems they are stating it does.
How does this remove the 1-2 skill scenario? He says you cannot go around just WW everything and win, really? Only way to stop me from doing that is to make immune to physical monsters or make a big ass cool-down or drain on resource for it, which in turn means I would get another skill to accommodate that hinder.
Doesn't want cookie cutter builds or to go online to figure out best builds. Ok, so now that we own every skill Jay, you are trying to tell me that noone in the world will figure out a top tier build for PvP or for MF and post it online and it won't be followed? Did this guy even play Diablo 2? They obviously could not make lower skills enticing like they claimed they were so they went with this system where it's free so why not use it.
Why not keep respec, allow us to add skill points maybe only 1-5 per skill, that way we can still build the characters we want without everyone being the same damn character. You might make your barbarian all damage, I might make mine have more defense tho, that is customization. You can keep the scaling of skills but at least let us have some choice beside grabbing up 6 free skills which honestly is not that hard to do like he makes it out to be. 1 Buffer, 1 debuffer, 2 power skills with good resource or cool down management and D3 is a wrap, and how could it not be your character is essentially a god.
What I see as the main flaw in the logic of this decision is thinking that this will "fix" cookie cutter builds simply because it makes it non-advantageous to use them. That's simply not true. You can still use two or three skills and stick in top-tier runestones. It would be the same result.
I can see that the way people just kept respecing skills every time a new one was gained in alpha testing means something needs to change. I just don't see how this is necessarily the solution to anything besides taking one more option for building power and a unique character. I'm still puzzling over it and don't get it. Maybe there's nothing to get.
Levelling up is going to be pretty boring now all of our choices are made for us, and I think I'll grow sick of swapping skills around all the time for different areas. I liked it back when our actions had consequences.
I can understand what you're saying. I FELT the same way. But Blizz COULD still make some sort of cost to changing your skills out. For example, what if you could only do it in town, say at the mystic, for a certain amount of gold. If gold will have real value in the game (unlike D2) it could make you try different runes and items to make that skill better, and decide after trying this that you DO like the build. Shouldnt we at least wait and see how the new system is gonna work out? After all we'll only know after we've played the game.
Yep, this is what I was arguing before, so hopefully they put that in there, or some form of cost/consequence. We will just have to wait and see
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Levelling up is going to be pretty boring now all of our choices are made for us, and I think I'll grow sick of swapping skills around all the time for different areas. I liked it back when our actions had consequences.
I can understand what you're saying. I FELT the same way. But Blizz COULD still make some sort of cost to changing your skills out. For example, what if you could only do it in town, say at the mystic, for a certain amount of gold. If gold will have real value in the game (unlike D2) it could make you try different runes and items to make that skill better, and decide after trying this that you DO like the build. Shouldnt we at least wait and see how the new system is gonna work out? After all we'll only know after we've played the game.
The WHOLE point of the new skill system is actually to NOT want you to exchange skills all the time.
You choose them WISELY and carefully, so they will be viable throughout the entirety of the game. That's the point. If u wanna respec u can, but you really shoudn't need to, because u already focsed on what u wanna do with your char... and what u chosen, can get you through the game..
Doesn't matter what build you choose, you can use it to end the game, no matter how weird and funny it is.. and that's the point. Viability.
Again, choosing 6 skills + 3 passives will be enough for ANY situation. It's your final build. But u can choose to alter it if u want. How is this taking away freedom, how is this making the choice for us and so on ?
In your argument here, you are assuming that everyone will make the wise/correct choice in skills and they will never want to change their skills around. But with the current system, there is no need to choose wisely, because you can easily change them if need be or just because. I believe that is what everyone is trying to say, that is why we want a cost/consequence if you do not choose wisely...
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~ Some people are still alive only because it is illegal to kill them ~
Ppl who are saying that leveling will be worthless because we have no skill/stats point make me laugh .
In diablo 2 the point of leveling was
1- Beeing able to wear better gear ( you had to lvl to 60+ to start wearing most uber unique/runeword)
2- Raising you skill. BUT you always knew exactly where to put them . If you wanted a hammerdin you would go Hammer>synergy>sacred shield and so on for most build .
3- Get more stats . Then again it was for the most part , enough str to wear gear > enough dex to cap block > everything else in vitality.
I mean ever sinve RPG are out the point of leveling is to get stronger ( gear , stronger spell ETC ) , wich is what we are getting in diablo 3 .
Levelling up is going to be pretty boring now all of our choices are made for us, and I think I'll grow sick of swapping skills around all the time for different areas. I liked it back when our actions had consequences.
I can understand what you're saying. I FELT the same way. But Blizz COULD still make some sort of cost to changing your skills out. For example, what if you could only do it in town, say at the mystic, for a certain amount of gold. If gold will have real value in the game (unlike D2) it could make you try different runes and items to make that skill better, and decide after trying this that you DO like the build. Shouldnt we at least wait and see how the new system is gonna work out? After all we'll only know after we've played the game.
The WHOLE point of the new skill system is actually to NOT want you to exchange skills all the time.
You choose them WISELY and carefully, so they will be viable throughout the entirety of the game. That's the point. If u wanna respec u can, but you really shoudn't need to, because u already focsed on what u wanna do with your char... and what u chosen, can get you through the game..
Doesn't matter what build you choose, you can use it to end the game, no matter how weird and funny it is.. and that's the point. Viability.
Again, choosing 6 skills + 3 passives will be enough for ANY situation. It's your final build. But u can choose to alter it if u want. How is this taking away freedom, how is this making the choice for us and so on ?
In your argument here, you are assuming that everyone will make the wise/correct choice in skills and they will never want to change their skills around. But with the current system, there is no need to choose wisely, because you can easily change them if need be or just because. I believe that is what everyone is trying to say, that is why we want a cost/consequence if you do not choose wisely...
The cost and consequence of not choosing what you want, is runestones, items and equipment. Because they directly rely on how powerful is and to what effect your spell has. And besides, we don't know if there is gonna be cost of respeccing or not, regardless, it won't make a huge difference really.
The point is, that there ARE no "wise" choices, as such, because the game is ultimately what YOU make it out to be. You can choose to make a build that not many other people do, and u might be successfull with it, or u can choose another build, that might be better at something else or better at the other build in some ways, but not in all ways.
Assuming that there are "correctness" of choice in builds, is going back to Diablo 2. BEcause that's what cookie cutters are all about. 2-3 builds that you HAVE to do, OR you are behind. You won't be as good as other people as killing stuff. This is such as bad design, so they made a new and better one.
Your quote:
"You choose them WISELY and carefully, so they will be viable throughout the entirety of the game."
and then your quote again:
"The point is, that there ARE no "wise" choices"
Your argument is all over the place and I think you are missing the whole point of our argument, by your statement here:
"And besides, we don't know if there is gonna be cost of respeccing or not, regardless, it won't make a huge difference really."
We are arguing that it will make a big difference and there needs to be a cost...
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The idea behind the recent rune ideas that Jay talked about in the interview gave me the idea to solve the problems most of us have with this new skill system. It is ok to swap the skills without any consequences, but the skills could be made like runes.
If we insert a skill into a slot, it is unmastered, so it can be changed any time, like in the current concept. But every slot would have a mastering option. 30-60 is 30 levels, divided by 5 is 6. So the characters would get one mastering points every 5 level after level 30, which means 6 points total.
Every slot would have 3 master level, like advanced, expert and master.
If someone starts to master a skill, that would be locked into the slot. Mastering would give affixes semi-connected to the skill, like increasing critical-chance or resource pool maybe.
So basically it would keep the skill changing option to experiment any time, but if someone wants to really go deep into customization and maxing out the potential of a character, mastering a skill would be a choice to go as well, and it would make the skill build locked.
I am sorry for this wall of text, hope that my idea is understandable and I am really interested about your opinion...
Hmm, very interesting approach, but I think that this adds a lot more confusion to skills and I think it would personally create a balancing nightmare for the team. Though, I like the out the box approach
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~ Some people are still alive only because it is illegal to kill them ~
I don't see how this new idea removes cookie cutter builds. It doesn't. In fact, you'll see more people running around with them, since it's free to switch to them, regardless of your previous play style. So that's pretty dumb of them for one.
I appreciate that they're trying to get rid of the problems of D2, but this in the end seems like it will only make the game boring and too easy. Not to mention too short. The replayability value is nonexistent. Get a char to lvl 60 (it's probably going to be very easy) and just freely swap around whatever you want. The end. You have all variations of that class at your disposal, what more do you want? Go play the market until you're old and gray.
They should try to find a balance between the harsh, punishing D2 system and just letting you make every character in one freely. Respeccing should have a cost. That way, you balance replayability, difficulty, rewarding actions, and fun.
Plus, this doesn't even make sense if you consider runes. Runes right now are a somewhat punishing system. So why keep those and remove skill points?
But does all this wishy-washy skill softness mean something more than encouraging more diverse builds? As a user on the Battle.net board asked, "Do you come upon a particularly nasty group that this other skill would just be perfect for, so you hang back, grab that skill, then destroy the group?"
The removal of skill points seems like a step away from the spirit of the franchise, instilled in us with Diablo II. It will restrict cookie-cutter and low-skill-count builds to an extent, and it indirectly removes the need for a controversial respeccing system. But it is a far cry different from the original games and many "Diablo clones," possibly alienating parts of an otherwise eager audience.
[/quote]
As the skill tiers are unlocked (only) at certain level requirements, perhaps certain items/equipment (either crafted items or those found in-game) will have a chance to allow your character to access skills above your character level? Perhaps it will be that certain items will allow you to add +skill bonuses to your character and allow for more specialized builds?
Well, in D2 players really wanted a respec system and eventually got one. Also, for a build in D2, when you respecced to something different, it was pretty standard how to divide the points for a type of build (no real thought once you decided the build). Skill swapping is essentially a streamlined respec (no point dumping/clicking) because if you had skill points they would all be predestined for a type of build anyway. My only problem with this new system is that it is essentially on demand respec without cost. I think there should be some kind of scaled challenge/cost/quest to interchange a skill into your skill set of six. Not to mention it might be fun to do a skill switch side quest for the loot and possible challenge. Side quest possiblility (just throwing wierd stuff out there): Bring the Cow Kings head back to a NPC on top of arreat summit to switch a skill. Or maybe just a gold cost (although I don't want to get into the value of gold now that its tied to real money).
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And if they actually put variation on the runes and make them hard to find, that will make characters unique in the sense I am looking for.
I agree too, after reading about the possible revisions to the rune system, it will create a lot more consequences when it comes to selecting skills and sticking runes to it, but only high level runes, sicne apparently low level runes drop like candy. You can use the low level runes to find what runes work and which ones dont, so I guess your high level runes better get a good roll or your off to find more...
Like i said before "Blizzard knows what they are doing". Let them do it.
A) Bring back 'skill points', but give one major and two minor per character. So each player has six skills... one major buffed, two minor buffed, and three regular. This adds further customization on top of the six skills one makes their build from. I think it can greatly add to the complexity of the game, while avoiding the pitfalls that made skill points unfun.
A lock-in system for old characters. Once you've found a skill set you love, you can lock it in, announcing to the world that that is who your character is.
Thoughts on the removal of skill points:
1) They now CAN make a 1/2 skill system not viable, by balancing the game to need more than 1/2 skills. If Whirlwind can kill every monster on screen, every time, then it will have a cooldown or resource cost to make that impossible. You will need to fill that gap with another skill, either an attack or a resource regen. Then, this can be repeated until you need at least 3 skills to have no downtime, etc. The only way you would be able to get away with only using 1/2 skills is then if those skills are to weak to clear the screen of monsters by themselves.
2) The skill point system in D2 was dumb for the reasons Mr. Wilson states... having to save points while leveling is just against the way one feels a game should be played. As others point out, the synergies made it worse. Anyways, who wants to play a game for 3 hours, and have cast the same spell 30,000 times, and nothing else?
3) I think what players will miss is the sense of identity that comes with choosing a certain build. Who knows if the barbarian you see is really into swinging axes, or just testing it out before swapping skills? When every player of a certain class can wake up tomorrow and respec the same way, that makes one feel not unique.
4) Similarly, players seem to be worried about the current degree of customizability. In D2, even two characters with the same skills could (theoretically at least) have a different point spread, and therefore a different emphasis on different skills. It seems like what Mr. Wilson was saying was that they couldn't build this degree of complication into D3 without it being only skin deep... it would seem like there were a lot of choices, but really there were only a couple ways to do it 'right'. Yet the idea of two characters choosing the same 6 skills, but playing them slightly different, is interesting. One character might use skill A as a main attack, and B situationally, while another uses B regularly, and A only occasionally.
5) Replayability vs. time. The nice thing about the system laid out for D3 is the ability to play around and test a skill/build. Once you find one you consider optimal for you, bam, you're an axe barb. But tomorrow, you could be a sword barb, and that makes the original choice less meaningful since there was no cost in making it. A system with locked-in builds helps replayability, and is good for those who can/do play a lot. A system with respecs is good for those who shouldn't have to play for 10 hours just to try out swords instead of axes. I feel for both groups.
Thanks for reading. Edit: inadvertent smiley, lolz.
So, after reading your e-rage. I see that you are actually agreeing with my original argument since you assume that you cannot change skills freely and that it will possibly cost something to change you skills. Furthermore, I am not whining, I am just providing alternative views regarding the new system. Dont join a forum and start mouthing off to people who are just giving there two cents regarding recent changes. I know the game isnt out yet and we wont know how any of this will work until we play it...
First of all, calm down, I already said I am not trolling, just trying to understand how the new system deals with these aspects.
1. There is no incentive to make another character, thus the majority won't. So, you make a character for every class, reach lvl 60, and then what? Start swapping skills to see another builds at lvl 60. Meanwhile while the other players do the same, wouldn't it simply reduce drastically low-level characters and thus make people just bore from the game quicker? I am talking about replayability, and it seems reduced, don't you agree? This approach seems really better for a first play, I am not arguing about that, but the replayability that has always been one of the greatest aspects of the franchise, at least for now, seems greatly reduced.
2. Well, Diablo 2 skill points seemed really relevant and worth waiting in D2, even being stupid to wait to max only some skills, but all the planning went back every level that you had th rethink your character and see where you were going. Just as all the other RPGs. You say new spells with lvl up in D3, but weren't all skills available since the beginning? Right now I understand that lvl up will only get them stronger, am I wrong?
Customization = equipment --> trading --> $$ for Blizzard
We can still customize...for a price (which is a good business model)
Bingo!
What I see as the main flaw in the logic of this decision is thinking that this will "fix" cookie cutter builds simply because it makes it non-advantageous to use them. That's simply not true. You can still use two or three skills and stick in top-tier runestones. It would be the same result.
I can see that the way people just kept respecing skills every time a new one was gained in alpha testing means something needs to change. I just don't see how this is necessarily the solution to anything besides taking one more option for building power and a unique character. I'm still puzzling over it and don't get it. Maybe there's nothing to get.
Yep, this is what I was arguing before, so hopefully they put that in there, or some form of cost/consequence. We will just have to wait and see
In your argument here, you are assuming that everyone will make the wise/correct choice in skills and they will never want to change their skills around. But with the current system, there is no need to choose wisely, because you can easily change them if need be or just because. I believe that is what everyone is trying to say, that is why we want a cost/consequence if you do not choose wisely...
In diablo 2 the point of leveling was
1- Beeing able to wear better gear ( you had to lvl to 60+ to start wearing most uber unique/runeword)
2- Raising you skill. BUT you always knew exactly where to put them . If you wanted a hammerdin you would go Hammer>synergy>sacred shield and so on for most build .
3- Get more stats . Then again it was for the most part , enough str to wear gear > enough dex to cap block > everything else in vitality.
I mean ever sinve RPG are out the point of leveling is to get stronger ( gear , stronger spell ETC ) , wich is what we are getting in diablo 3 .
Your quote:
"You choose them WISELY and carefully, so they will be viable throughout the entirety of the game."
and then your quote again:
"The point is, that there ARE no "wise" choices"
Your argument is all over the place and I think you are missing the whole point of our argument, by your statement here:
"And besides, we don't know if there is gonna be cost of respeccing or not, regardless, it won't make a huge difference really."
We are arguing that it will make a big difference and there needs to be a cost...
It will be at 1:30pm PST (4:30 EST) Yay!
Hmm, very interesting approach, but I think that this adds a lot more confusion to skills and I think it would personally create a balancing nightmare for the team. Though, I like the out the box approach
I appreciate that they're trying to get rid of the problems of D2, but this in the end seems like it will only make the game boring and too easy. Not to mention too short. The replayability value is nonexistent. Get a char to lvl 60 (it's probably going to be very easy) and just freely swap around whatever you want. The end. You have all variations of that class at your disposal, what more do you want? Go play the market until you're old and gray.
They should try to find a balance between the harsh, punishing D2 system and just letting you make every character in one freely. Respeccing should have a cost. That way, you balance replayability, difficulty, rewarding actions, and fun.
Plus, this doesn't even make sense if you consider runes. Runes right now are a somewhat punishing system. So why keep those and remove skill points?
The removal of skill points seems like a step away from the spirit of the franchise, instilled in us with Diablo II. It will restrict cookie-cutter and low-skill-count builds to an extent, and it indirectly removes the need for a controversial respeccing system. But it is a far cry different from the original games and many "Diablo clones," possibly alienating parts of an otherwise eager audience.
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As the skill tiers are unlocked (only) at certain level requirements, perhaps certain items/equipment (either crafted items or those found in-game) will have a chance to allow your character to access skills above your character level? Perhaps it will be that certain items will allow you to add +skill bonuses to your character and allow for more specialized builds?