As an alternative to what Jaetch recommended, if you want to keep the high dps going, I'd replace your chanto set with a black dagger with IAS and socket and an APoC Triumvirate. If you get a dagger with 9% IAS or higher you'll stay above the 2.5 APS breakpoint which works just fine for farming, imo. That's the setup I'm running right now if you want to take a look for comparison, though I'm still trying to decide on an amulet. If you're really patient or lucky, you can try getting a dagger with Life Steal also, which would help your life gain a lot.
As for LoH, the recommendation is 800 LoH per 100k dps, so about 1600 LoH for you. Also, for MP10 I highly recommend 89-90% mitigation (5k armor and 800 resist = 89% mitigation). Then again, unless your running Ubers, I recommend dropping the MP to a level you can survive while using SA since it basically doubles your effective dps. For me that's around MP7-8, since I'm short 1k armor and 100 resist from my MP10 recommendation.
My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM. I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.
My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM. I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.
That's because you have the Zuni chest as well (giving you the 130 int set bonus) and quite high DPS with 300k+. A typical Chantodo's gets about 70% of its damage from the fire damage bonus. That leaves you with about 2% damage bonus from the Zuni boots' poison damage. For your 300k+ DPS this is still a lot, but if you don't consider the Zuni set bonus and your DPS is lower (and to be fair, most people looking for help won't have 300k DPS) they are better off with other alternatives.
In your gear range almost every upgrade needs to be one of the BiS items, which makes upgrades expensive but also easier because there's not much variety for BiS items once you reach a certain DPS.
My Zuni's boots still gives me more dps than a 300 total intel ice climbers when I switch to Chantodo's set (and BT ammy) for CM. I wouldn't recommend swapping that Zuni's boot out unless you can afford a 350 total intelligence ice climbers which are ridiculously expensive.
That's because you have the Zuni chest as well (giving you the 130 int set bonus) and quite high DPS with 300k+. A typical Chantodo's gets about 70% of its damage from the fire damage bonus. That leaves you with about 2% damage bonus from the Zuni boots' poison damage. For your 300k+ DPS this is still a lot, but if you don't consider the Zuni set bonus and your DPS is lower (and to be fair, most people looking for help won't have 300k DPS) they are better off with other alternatives.
In your gear range almost every upgrade needs to be one of the BiS items, which makes upgrades expensive but also easier because there's not much variety for BiS items once you reach a certain DPS.
Are you referring to me on the upgrades?cause if you are that would be excellent good to know that i need certain items,but according to bagstone's guide and this guide i am a bit frustrated which exactly are the Bis for Cm
He was referring to RasAlgethi's stats. As for BiS items for CM, I think Bagstone summed it all up pretty well in the gear choices section of his guide. You want X amount of attack speed to hit the required breakpoints that Loroese has summed up in this guide. You also want to stack as high CC as you can to proc CM as much as possible then stack EHP so you can stay in fights without even thinking about kiting.
There are only so many items that can give you attack speed in non-standard IAS slots like your chest and helm. Those are the ones you want to pick up in order to reach breakpoints.
so... ugh
I missed the part where you can't get to 3.001 without Inna's Pants, IAS Chantodo's want, or the IAS rune of slow time. I just got done upgrading all of my pieces to max ias only to find I'm ONE fracken % short!
Anyway, I wanted to post here a little better strategy on SK/Mag. I have been having a lot of good luck lately with stun locking them both "permanently" and wanted to share. What I do is ignore SK and focus only on freezing Mag. Don't use any of the other abilities, just freeze and wicked wind. At some point SK will teleport to you and get stuck right on top of Mag and then you can lock them both until SK is dead.
A couple notes: I dunno if my CC is too low or what, but I can't really get a permalock on Mag by herself. Once SK comes in tho, I can freeze both of them. This is important because it prevents mag from doing anything and it also prevents the SK's invulnerable "strut" that we've all died to.
Actually no, with my chanto set and BT ammy my dps drops by a lot in my CM set up. I use to run Tal's chest and still Zuni's boots gave me more DPS than a 300 total intel ice climbers. Tals' chest or Zuni's chest doesn't make difference as Tal's 9 ias makes up for the 130 intel set bonus from Zuni's in my case. It would take a 300+ total intel ice climbers to do more damage for me which is very expensive.
As for having both bosses together, yeah it helps. With them in close range, multiple WW can hit both bosses at same time so your cool down is being reset quicker.
^ If you trade out your APoC weapon for dps then you'll need to make up the APoC on your helm. Stormcrow I believe it's called. That means you're losing IAS on your helm too tho. This is kind of the point that I'm suck at.
The problem with going with the dagger with ias method is that you can't get APOC here. Which means you would have to use a APOC helm (either a Stormcrow or rare). You want at least 2 pieces with APOC.
I personally use the Stretch Time + 1.65 chanto+ 72 gear IAS method to get to 3aps.
I found I had a lot of problems with slow time because it greatly concentrates some enemies' attacks. Lightning elites were terrible for my barbarian buddies but we also had problems with mag's fly attack which made it ultimately useless in the one uber fight you really wanted the IAS for.
First of all,thank you for taking some time to reply Loroese,appreciate it :Thumbs Up:
Do you think it would be ok to replace chant set with dagger on high ias and triumvirate?i ll drop down my apoc which is exactly 17 atm.just wondering...Also im trying to decide if i should get a unity with 8as which will give me about 10k dps but i ll drop on 700loh,and for farming i go easily on mp5,what i mentioned for mp10 its when i do ubers and key farming.
thank you in advance
I seemed to have overlooked your helm IAS for some reason. If you swap your weapon for dagger, you'd have to swap your helm, which means that if you wanted to use a triumvirate you'd have to gain back the IAS somewhere, either from the amulet or zuni ring. You'd lose less crit from swapping the ring but should gain it back using a crit Storm Crow. You'd also gain some LoH from the SC, but at the cost of some EHP from the mempo, so it's really a huge balancing act. Basically, to hit 2.5 APS you need 51-53% IAS on gear and 11-9% IAS on a dagger, respectively.
Yeah it does tend to make projectiles hit you all at once but even against Maghda I've never any issues and almost always run mp10.
Only issue I've had with slow time is against Act 2 keywarden. It takes all his mortar attacks and focuses them on you (must be a bug). I just don't use it against him.
But yeah, its a difficult balancing act to get to 3aps. Other than the 1.66 dagger method, I would have to switch to inna's pants but I would lose so much ehp and LoH.
The 1.66 dagger LOOKS to be a good alternative, but they are tricking you with the math. Increased attack speed increases a percentage of your base speed. The speed shown on your weapon with an IAS weapon has the % built in and will result in incorrect math. The + attacks per second on echoing fury or chantodo's wand will result in a much higher actual attack/second base number. With the daggers, you have to use 1.4 as your base whereas you can find a C wand with 1.65 base.
Example:
Chandodo's wand with +0.25 a/s and 70% attack speed on other equipment will result in 2.805 a/s
a "1.66" a/s dagger with 70% attack speed on other equipment will only result in 2.6064 a/s
echoing fury with +0.25 a/s and 11% ias with 70% ias on other equipment will get you 2.6245
Just playing with the damage calc and realized if I switched to a higher dps 1.75 chanto (currently using a 1000 dps chanto w/socket) + magic weapon I wouldn't lose much dps even though I'd lose a socket on the wand. Then I can drop time warp.
edit: I just realized force weapon has knock back so I'd have to use another rune or sparkflint. I'd also lose the potential damage of higher dps chanto w/socket. Seems like Im going in circles.
The 1.66 dagger LOOKS to be a good alternative, but they are tricking you with the math. Increased attack speed increases a percentage of your base speed. The speed shown on your weapon with an IAS weapon has the % built in and will result in incorrect math. The + attacks per second on echoing fury or chantodo's wand will result in a much higher actual attack/second base number. With the daggers, you have to use 1.4 as your base whereas you can find a C wand with 1.65 base.
Example:
Chandodo's wand with +0.25 a/s and 70% attack speed on other equipment will result in 2.805 a/s
a "1.66" a/s dagger with 70% attack speed on other equipment will only result in 2.6064 a/s
echoing fury with +0.25 a/s and 11% ias with 70% ias on other equipment will get you 2.6245
Dagger is 1.5 base, so a 11% IAS dagger is 1.665 APS which is higher than a chanto without IAS. A 1.66 (11%IAS) dagger with 70% IAS from gear is actually 2.83 APS, higher than the chanto.
Thx again for ur tips Loroese i have 2.67 aps at the moment,enough hp(at least my opinion),and 43cc without the buffs,just 2 questions that i have if you can answer,should i swap my ring with loh for a unity gaining 10k dps about but loosing 100loh reaching to 700?is it worth it?cause unity's with 8as are about 120-150mil
Also should i just keep my gear as it is and just start to collect gold for the same ones but with higher dmg?thats what i was wondering... for example better vile wards,witching hour,better zuni with av dmg,also zuni boots all resist,tal rasha all resist?
thank you again in advance
I'd be careful about losing LoH. As you raise your dps you actually need more LoH to compensate against RD (and based on the feedback on PTR, the RD 'nerf' won't change that too much). However, if you have a lot of damage mitigation, you don't need as much LoH, thus more to the balancing act. This is especially true at lower APS since you don't have as much LoH returns as higher APS.
For example, at 160k, with 4k armor and 700 resists, I got torn apart by RD+electric mobs on MP7 with some 850 LoH. Increasing my hp from 35-40k or so and adding 450 LoH didn't do much to my survivability (i.e., BT amulet). However, switching to a high str amulet did help a lot because I gained a decent chunk of extra mitigation in addition to 500 LoH. The extra 170 armor was very noticable (and about 2% less damage taken, roughly).
As far as what to do about gear, I'd recommend upgrading EHP as you try to raise DPS. Raising DPS alone will get you into trouble on higher MP because you'll take more damage due to mobs hitting harder. Raising EHP alone won't help you farm much faster, though higher EHP never hurts. Unfortunatelly doing either is going to start costing you a lot. With my gear, I actually need to raise my EHP since I still take a lot of damage from elites. My DPS is pretty decent for MP7 farming (I could probably bump it to MP8 but my EHP is a bit low for that) and higher mitigation would definitely make MP7 easier. I can really use another 500 armor or so...
What I used to use when running CM/WW was the following sort of items, which put me around 200K unbuffed DPS and 550-600K unbuffed EHP:
- 8 ias / 6 cc Mempo
- 9 ias, high armor Tal chest
- 9 ias / 6 cc Lacuni
- 8 ias / 6 cc rare ring
- 6 cc Zuni Pox
- 9 ias, 9 cc rare gloves
- 9 ias / 10 cc Blackthorne's ammy
- 9 ias Witching Hour
- 9 ias / 10 cc Chant's Force
- 1.79 APS Chant's Will
- High-end Vile Ward, high armor Blackthorne's pants, Zuni Trail to finish (yes, without a high-end Ice Climbers, you might as well keep Zuni for the DPS, otherwise go for Climbers for the EHP).
That put me at unbuffed 3.04 APS (overkill), 58% CC. So if you're looking to maximize IAS and CC (without going for the EHP-crippling Inna's Temp), check out the gear listed above. Considering 200K+ unbuffed DPS and high EHP with that gear will involve some above average to BiS items (Andariel's instead of Mempo, if you want to ditch some EHP, or just get a high int Mempo without crit), you can certainly get by with less DPS (just forego crit damage, for instance). With so much IAS and CC, you're bound to lock almost anything in your path.
Coming back after a long haitus away from this game, this guide has helped me tremendously. I'm having a lot of fun with this build and with D3 in general again!
I think it depends, for me emerald is still much better, both in Archon and CMWW gear. I guess ruby is good for low crit builds. Still working on my Blizzard spec though.
Since this is the CMWW thread and CMWW relies on high crit chance I think the answer is "no" :-)
Hey everyone I hope you can help me upgrade my CM/WW wizard.
I am currently paragon 25 and want to be able to do higher MP levels if I can.
I have a bout 15-17 mil to work with for now.
Please help me ugprade my wiz. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sygfreed-1841/hero/24564874
Battle Tag - Sygfreed#1841
Quick run down of my stats: Crit: 45% crit Arcane Power Per Second: 10 LoH: 466 APS: 2.08 Armor: 2874 Resists: ~490 HP: 48k DPS: 72k
Hey everyone I hope you can help me upgrade my CM/WW wizard.
I am currently paragon 25 and want to be able to do higher MP levels if I can.
I have a bout 15-17 mil to work with for now.
Please help me ugprade my wiz. http://us.battle.net...1/hero/24564874
Battle Tag - Sygfreed#1841
Quick run down of my stats: Crit: 45% crit Arcane Power Per Second: 10 LoH: 466 APS: 2.08 Armor: 2874 Resists: ~490 HP: 48k DPS: 72k
Please help me out!
You are in great need of higher armor and resists, so you can survive at higher MP. I'm not sure what your overall APS is but you want to aim for 2.5 APS at least, or 2.73 APS since you have a Chanto MH. I'd replace your Andy's Visage with a Storm Crow for extra LoH, plus the APoC means you can swap your OH for a Chanto OH without APoC. If you don't already, I'd drop the hellfire ring for a rare ring with 4-5% crit and 8-9% IAS, or pick up a nat's ring with all resist and int and swap your boots to nat's for the 2pc 7% crit bonus, though that might be expensive depending on your budget. Overall you'll need 66% IAS on gear to reach 2.73 with your wand, so keep that in mind when upgrading to IAS pieces. You only need 52% for 2.5 APS, which should be really easy to reach with a chanto 2 pc, if you want to aim for that first.
For MP5 I recommend something like 550 resists and 3500 armor while using Storm Armor - Shocking Aspect. You're welcome to try with lower armor. Since they changed RD it's not as much an issue for CMWW so those requirements are likely a little on the high side, though Electric mobs still hurt, and most of the other affixes out there can still kill if you're not careful.
As an alternative to what Jaetch recommended, if you want to keep the high dps going, I'd replace your chanto set with a black dagger with IAS and socket and an APoC Triumvirate. If you get a dagger with 9% IAS or higher you'll stay above the 2.5 APS breakpoint which works just fine for farming, imo. That's the setup I'm running right now if you want to take a look for comparison, though I'm still trying to decide on an amulet. If you're really patient or lucky, you can try getting a dagger with Life Steal also, which would help your life gain a lot.
As for LoH, the recommendation is 800 LoH per 100k dps, so about 1600 LoH for you. Also, for MP10 I highly recommend 89-90% mitigation (5k armor and 800 resist = 89% mitigation). Then again, unless your running Ubers, I recommend dropping the MP to a level you can survive while using SA since it basically doubles your effective dps. For me that's around MP7-8, since I'm short 1k armor and 100 resist from my MP10 recommendation.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
That's because you have the Zuni chest as well (giving you the 130 int set bonus) and quite high DPS with 300k+. A typical Chantodo's gets about 70% of its damage from the fire damage bonus. That leaves you with about 2% damage bonus from the Zuni boots' poison damage. For your 300k+ DPS this is still a lot, but if you don't consider the Zuni set bonus and your DPS is lower (and to be fair, most people looking for help won't have 300k DPS) they are better off with other alternatives.
In your gear range almost every upgrade needs to be one of the BiS items, which makes upgrades expensive but also easier because there's not much variety for BiS items once you reach a certain DPS.
He was referring to RasAlgethi's stats. As for BiS items for CM, I think Bagstone summed it all up pretty well in the gear choices section of his guide. You want X amount of attack speed to hit the required breakpoints that Loroese has summed up in this guide. You also want to stack as high CC as you can to proc CM as much as possible then stack EHP so you can stay in fights without even thinking about kiting.
There are only so many items that can give you attack speed in non-standard IAS slots like your chest and helm. Those are the ones you want to pick up in order to reach breakpoints.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I missed the part where you can't get to 3.001 without Inna's Pants, IAS Chantodo's want, or the IAS rune of slow time. I just got done upgrading all of my pieces to max ias only to find I'm ONE fracken % short!
Anyway, I wanted to post here a little better strategy on SK/Mag. I have been having a lot of good luck lately with stun locking them both "permanently" and wanted to share. What I do is ignore SK and focus only on freezing Mag. Don't use any of the other abilities, just freeze and wicked wind. At some point SK will teleport to you and get stuck right on top of Mag and then you can lock them both until SK is dead.
A couple notes: I dunno if my CC is too low or what, but I can't really get a permalock on Mag by herself. Once SK comes in tho, I can freeze both of them. This is important because it prevents mag from doing anything and it also prevents the SK's invulnerable "strut" that we've all died to.
As for having both bosses together, yeah it helps. With them in close range, multiple WW can hit both bosses at same time so your cool down is being reset quicker.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Telquessir-1437/hero/5121825
How do I get more DPS without losing A/S or forking over hundreds of millions on quadrifecta equipment?
I personally use the Stretch Time + 1.65 chanto+ 72 gear IAS method to get to 3aps.
I seemed to have overlooked your helm IAS for some reason. If you swap your weapon for dagger, you'd have to swap your helm, which means that if you wanted to use a triumvirate you'd have to gain back the IAS somewhere, either from the amulet or zuni ring. You'd lose less crit from swapping the ring but should gain it back using a crit Storm Crow. You'd also gain some LoH from the SC, but at the cost of some EHP from the mempo, so it's really a huge balancing act. Basically, to hit 2.5 APS you need 51-53% IAS on gear and 11-9% IAS on a dagger, respectively.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
Only issue I've had with slow time is against Act 2 keywarden. It takes all his mortar attacks and focuses them on you (must be a bug). I just don't use it against him.
But yeah, its a difficult balancing act to get to 3aps. Other than the 1.66 dagger method, I would have to switch to inna's pants but I would lose so much ehp and LoH.
Example:
Chandodo's wand with +0.25 a/s and 70% attack speed on other equipment will result in 2.805 a/s
a "1.66" a/s dagger with 70% attack speed on other equipment will only result in 2.6064 a/s
echoing fury with +0.25 a/s and 11% ias with 70% ias on other equipment will get you 2.6245
edit: I just realized force weapon has knock back so I'd have to use another rune or sparkflint. I'd also lose the potential damage of higher dps chanto w/socket. Seems like Im going in circles.
Dagger is 1.5 base, so a 11% IAS dagger is 1.665 APS which is higher than a chanto without IAS. A 1.66 (11%IAS) dagger with 70% IAS from gear is actually 2.83 APS, higher than the chanto.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
I'd be careful about losing LoH. As you raise your dps you actually need more LoH to compensate against RD (and based on the feedback on PTR, the RD 'nerf' won't change that too much). However, if you have a lot of damage mitigation, you don't need as much LoH, thus more to the balancing act. This is especially true at lower APS since you don't have as much LoH returns as higher APS.
For example, at 160k, with 4k armor and 700 resists, I got torn apart by RD+electric mobs on MP7 with some 850 LoH. Increasing my hp from 35-40k or so and adding 450 LoH didn't do much to my survivability (i.e., BT amulet). However, switching to a high str amulet did help a lot because I gained a decent chunk of extra mitigation in addition to 500 LoH. The extra 170 armor was very noticable (and about 2% less damage taken, roughly).
As far as what to do about gear, I'd recommend upgrading EHP as you try to raise DPS. Raising DPS alone will get you into trouble on higher MP because you'll take more damage due to mobs hitting harder. Raising EHP alone won't help you farm much faster, though higher EHP never hurts. Unfortunatelly doing either is going to start costing you a lot. With my gear, I actually need to raise my EHP since I still take a lot of damage from elites. My DPS is pretty decent for MP7 farming (I could probably bump it to MP8 but my EHP is a bit low for that) and higher mitigation would definitely make MP7 easier. I can really use another 500 armor or so...
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard
- 8 ias / 6 cc Mempo
- 9 ias, high armor Tal chest
- 9 ias / 6 cc Lacuni
- 8 ias / 6 cc rare ring
- 6 cc Zuni Pox
- 9 ias, 9 cc rare gloves
- 9 ias / 10 cc Blackthorne's ammy
- 9 ias Witching Hour
- 9 ias / 10 cc Chant's Force
- 1.79 APS Chant's Will
- High-end Vile Ward, high armor Blackthorne's pants, Zuni Trail to finish (yes, without a high-end Ice Climbers, you might as well keep Zuni for the DPS, otherwise go for Climbers for the EHP).
That put me at unbuffed 3.04 APS (overkill), 58% CC. So if you're looking to maximize IAS and CC (without going for the EHP-crippling Inna's Temp), check out the gear listed above. Considering 200K+ unbuffed DPS and high EHP with that gear will involve some above average to BiS items (Andariel's instead of Mempo, if you want to ditch some EHP, or just get a high int Mempo without crit), you can certainly get by with less DPS (just forego crit damage, for instance). With so much IAS and CC, you're bound to lock almost anything in your path.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
I think it depends, for me emerald is still much better, both in Archon and CMWW gear. I guess ruby is good for low crit builds. Still working on my Blizzard spec though.
Since this is the CMWW thread and CMWW relies on high crit chance I think the answer is "no" :-)
I am currently paragon 25 and want to be able to do higher MP levels if I can.
I have a bout 15-17 mil to work with for now.
Please help me ugprade my wiz.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sygfreed-1841/hero/24564874
Battle Tag - Sygfreed#1841
Quick run down of my stats:
Crit: 45% crit
Arcane Power Per Second: 10
LoH: 466
APS: 2.08
Armor: 2874
Resists: ~490
HP: 48k
DPS: 72k
Please help me out!
You are in great need of higher armor and resists, so you can survive at higher MP. I'm not sure what your overall APS is but you want to aim for 2.5 APS at least, or 2.73 APS since you have a Chanto MH. I'd replace your Andy's Visage with a Storm Crow for extra LoH, plus the APoC means you can swap your OH for a Chanto OH without APoC. If you don't already, I'd drop the hellfire ring for a rare ring with 4-5% crit and 8-9% IAS, or pick up a nat's ring with all resist and int and swap your boots to nat's for the 2pc 7% crit bonus, though that might be expensive depending on your budget. Overall you'll need 66% IAS on gear to reach 2.73 with your wand, so keep that in mind when upgrading to IAS pieces. You only need 52% for 2.5 APS, which should be really easy to reach with a chanto 2 pc, if you want to aim for that first.
For MP5 I recommend something like 550 resists and 3500 armor while using Storm Armor - Shocking Aspect. You're welcome to try with lower armor. Since they changed RD it's not as much an issue for CMWW so those requirements are likely a little on the high side, though Electric mobs still hurt, and most of the other affixes out there can still kill if you're not careful.
Crusader DPS and EHP Spreadsheet, meant for Crusaders
My Wizard