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    posted a message on Bosses drop chance
    Quote from overneathe

    Quote from Litheum

    Who cares? D3 is better than D2......no one is really arguing that.
    Thanks for clarifying a point that doesnt matter though. The point stands, forcing any portion of the game is bad design.
    It's really quite obvious you constradict every post of mine, I am really just going to stop replying to you. Kind of feels like your just trolling me.

    Act 3 is only popular because the hardcore theorycrafting bunch of players noticed the density is slightly bigger in that Act. Lots of players do like to run Acts 1 and 2, with just a few also enjoying Act 4. Blizzard hasn't forced anyone, efficiency is "forcing them". The invisible guide to rule all farming games. Just like the elitist bunch are saying Blizzard "forces them" to do dailies in WoW even though they can absolutely not touch them and still cap valor and get great gear. But that's another topic.

    Once density in the Acts is equalized, which I suspect will be Blizz's priority after 1.0.7 goes live, all Acts will be absolutely equal. Except for 4 which is shorter. Sad. But it was so in D2 as well.

    So what are you angry about and why do you think Blizzard is "forcing" anyone into anything? Is it because of density? Can't you be a bit patient? Or are you gonna use the "it's been an year" argument?

    Nah, I've made my points. I have no more arguments. I don't like D3, there's things I think should change......if you want to know what, you can look at any number of posts I've made over the last few months. People are telling me it's pointless to keep complaining about it, so I am going to stop.

    Maybe sometime in the future, a major patch or an expansion, things will come around. But I don't see anything changing soon, and I have definately voiced my opinion clearly and often here. So don't think it's productive for me to continue spending time on these forums.

    I'm having fun playing POE, GW2, and DOTA2. D3 will stay installed, because I will play again at some point, although it may not be until the expansion.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Remember Diablo 3 in 2010?
    Quote from WeweW

    Funny that most of you guys bitched it when the first gameplay videos came out. Why is it looks happy? Why is it colorful? WoW graphics etc. and now slower gameplay is better? :facepalmsmile:

    I never made any of those complaints. You have absolutely no way to know if "most of us" said anything about these videos.....unless you somehow have been tracking our statements for 4+ years.......

    So stop making wild claims you have no way of actually knowing.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Bosses drop chance
    Quote from Bagstone

    You don't get it. In D2, one single mob (Baal) was the goal of every run. Everything else along the way was useless crap and would decrease your efficiency. The whole endgame was designed around killing this one single mob as often and quickly as possible - for more than 10 years.

    In D3 they changed this, thanks to NV buff and elite packs being more useful than act bosses. In particular, if you just enter the game, kill one mob and quit, you receive kind of a penalty due to the fact that you skipped on NV5 bonuses. The difference between 1% (Baal) and 15% (and my farm route is probably rather 20%-25% of D3's content) is huge, because it shows in which direction the game is headed. Once Blizzard has fixed the mob density issues in act 1 and 2, and the "NV persists through acts" feature works properly, there might be a fair amount of people farming 80% of the game's content on their way to p100. If you still insist that "1% versus 80%" is just a number, I can't help you. After all, I bought this game to play more than 1% of it, and right now I feel that the game offers a better incentive already to explore more of its content every single day than this was ever the case in D2.

    Who cares? D3 is better than D2......no one is really arguing that.
    Thanks for clarifying a point that doesnt matter though. The point stands, forcing any portion of the game is bad design.
    It's really quite obvious you constradict every post of mine, I am really just going to stop replying to you. Kind of feels like your just trolling me.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Remember Diablo 3 in 2010?
    Quote from kaos6

    I remember when some years ago people used to be more happy of something that was provided to them and they respected others people work in that matter. I miss that. I wish no more crybaby and whining threads like this on any forum...just enjoy the game

    Just enjoy the game!!! Now!!
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Remember Diablo 3 in 2010?
    Quote from gallaghd

    I posted this topic last night on the D3 forums. It WAS ERASED and I was banned for 72 hours.


    Real nice they have time to delete threads and ban paying customers but cant fix the f^%$^ 395015 error on the PTR.


    Slowly starting to dislike this company....

    Did you say something against their TOU? Or just post the video?
    My guess is you made some sort of comments thats against their TOU.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Bosses drop chance
    Quote from Daemaro

    Quote from Nikdik

    How is doing boss runs any different than doing the same areas from Act 3 over and over

    In one case you're rushing to the boss, killing it and then hitting reset.

    In another you're playing through a good chunk of a whole act killing a handful of variety of enemies, champions, rares, and then eventually finishing with the act boss.

    It's pretty different as far as the depth of a hack and slash goes.

    Why are you guys arguing about a completely pointless technicality??

    Either way, making you farm a small section of the game regardless of what % of the game it is........is bad design. Who cares if it's 4.8% or 14.4%........it's still bad design. Even if it was all of act 3 to include all bosses, it's still bad design. Just because it's "better" than another game doesnt make it great game design.

    We all agree, the arguments dead, get over it and start talking about something else.....or move the conversation along. Here, I'l help, now that we agree it's bad design, are their any easy solutions that don't involve changing mob density....since apparently that's too hard to program?
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Remember Diablo 3 in 2010?
    Quote from Temsen

    At 12:28, casting locust swarm on the zombie dogs sounds like it'd really make some skill combinations more interesting. Was probably scrapped because they didn't have enough ideas/time for other skills.

    Or how about if you hit a skeleton with a certain skill, it drops it's shield making it vulnerable? Sounds like a lot of their spell interaction ideas were too hard or didnt make the cut. Not that I think those things are that great.

    This may sound weird, but I liked how it was slower than todays game. It just felt more like and ARPG. Seems like combat would be more fun that way, less about split second movement because elites are flinging fire at you every .2 seconds, and more about the gear/builds/smart play/strategy. That is more in-line with what I envision ARPGs to be like. The super fast pace, and WOW-like "move out of the fire" doesnt feel very good for Diablo. I mean, you had that in D1/2 also, but it wasn't the focus of fights, it was slightly more strategic than reaction based.

    IDK, maybe I'm the only one......
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on jay wilson quit diablo 3
    Yah, not sure why anyone would try to argue that the loot system wasn't designed with the RMAH in mind. You could make the argument I suppose that it wasnt for the RMAH, but for the AH....but anyone with a little background in game design, or even playing other games.....knows they could have added item sinks so the AH wasn't the only viable way to upgrade gear.

    It is just common sense, it's a business model, it exists to make money. Granted it helps with the problem of having illegitimate gold sales, but everyone including Blizzard knew it wouldnt stop it. I mean, if that was really the only goal, why build a system that so heavily relies on gold to progress your character?

    The answer is obvious. I'm not saying they are blinded by money, or had bad intentions. I definately think they had great intentions, and still do. But saying they designed the loot with no thought of the RMAH is just naive.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Remember Diablo 3 in 2010?
    Jesus......so much potential.

    What the hell happened???????
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Litheum

    So i do understand, and I agree with your points about Blizzard, however I strongly disagree that they are listening, and they are not responding in the best interest of the game.....when it comes to D3.

    Just by reading the official forums a few minutes every day the highlighted part can easily be disproved and therefore - I'm sorry to say this, because you're such an active and even though critical, oftentimes constructive poster - this comes across very ignorant.

    I also disagree that the changes are "small" and "wrong" - except for WoW (which is subscription-based) and expansion packs (which are being paid for) I don't have the feeling D3's patches are any smaller in terms of content being added compared to any previous patches of any previous Blizzard games (and I've been playing them for 18+ years). But obviously, this is very subjective and we just have different opinions on this part. However, you can't deny that Blizzard is listening and reacting (though slowly) to user feedback.

    Yah, we will just have to disagree.

    Kind of reminds me of the old movie "white men can't jump"........

    "Look man, You can listen to Jimi but you can't hear him. There's a difference man. Just because your listening to him doesn't mean you're hearing him."
    - Sidney Deane

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HauMNRzhyJQ
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Bosses drop chance
    Quote from shaggy

    Quote from Litheum

    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Bogok

    If you compare to diablo 2, what i liked was i could open the game, go kill a boss, and boom 100% legendary. I don't think the chance should be that high, but atleast make it higher than packs??

    What I didn't like about D2 was you open the game, kill a boss, rinse & repeat. 99% of D2's content was never visited by any player. I'm extremely happy they changed that in D3.

    Boss drop rates are fine, if they were any better, people would go back to the old D2 pattern of neglecting 90% of game content. Even though people are complaining as hell, right now the "most efficient farming run" includes about 15-20% of the game, in D2 it was 1% (Baal, nothing else).

    I find this post ridiculous.

    If you switch "boss" with "act 3" it would be a perfect description of D3.

    "What I didn't like about D3 was you open the game, kill act 3, rinse & repeat. 99% of D3's content was never visited by any player. I'm extremely happy they changed that in D3 patch XX."

    You don' farm all of act 3, you dont kill bosses in act 3, so it's not 15-20% of the game.......

    Yes, but you OBVIOUSLY use more than 1% of the game. Your argument is steeped in hyperbole and exaggeration. We clearly use more of the game, and the design philosphy should ensure that they open up even more with some balancing (they've said they're looking into that).

    In terms of how much of the game we're actively using, it's a hell of a lot more than we ever used in D2, and they're working to expand that further. I don't see how anyone could complain about that.

    You completely missed my point. I had no argument.

    Just that we both agree making you farm 1 specifc part of the game is bad. D2 and D3 do that. That is all.
    The "99%" is completely irrelevant, and just copy and pasted from the OPs post. I'm fairly certain you could see that, but as usual just wanted to contradict everything I say.

    BTW, in general anyone who uses "hyperbole" in any Blizzard forum loses a lot of respect from me, because that word is nothing more than a catch phrase of Blizz mods.....and now every tough guy trying to sound smart uses it on the forums. Chances are most of them had no idea what it even meant until it was overused and became so popular on the forums.

    Not saying it's true about you though old friend......
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on New patch, major let down.
    Quote from Catalept

    Quote from Litheum

    But again, my main goal is discussig the game and hopefully hanging around long enough to see some significant changes....and who knows, maybe I can spark some meaningful conversation along the way that helps Blizzard figure out how to fix things.

    D3 will get significant changes. I'm not sure who handed out all the rose-tinted glasses that makes people think otherwise, but the simple fact is that Blizzard is (and has been for years) a company that moves slowly, but makes big changes. Blizzard's culture is built around iteration, and they don't always get it right. From Archon Toilets to Static Shock spam to Reckoning Bombs... they've always been prone to incredible slip-ups. The problem is that all three of their major franchises aren't just games, they're entire systems in which people are highly motivated to find efficient paths... and in cases like that, the organism will do what it damn well pleases. They respond slowly and deliberately, but they do respond, and I think it's simply wrong not to approach their efforts in good faith. I've said it before, but getting the most out of a Blizzard product is not something for the impatient.

    You assume I don't know and play Blizzard games almost exlusively, and have seen Blizzard at work across all their games for 10+ years.

    It is my opinion, that compared to their other games, D3 is not recieving the right changes, regardless of how big they are, they are just the wrong changes. And it is also my opinion they are not making big enough changes in the time they have had. I have seen bigger changes from them, I have seen better changes from them.

    So i do understand, and I agree with your points about Blizzard, however I strongly disagree that they are listening, and they are not responding in the best interest of the game.....when it comes to D3.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Bosses drop chance
    Quote from wwepatriot

    Quote from Zakumene

    Quote from wwepatriot

    Quote from Bagstone

    Quote from Bogok

    If you compare to diablo 2, what i liked was i could open the game, go kill a boss, and boom 100% legendary. I don't think the chance should be that high, but atleast make it higher than packs??

    What I didn't like about D2 was you open the game, kill a boss, rinse & repeat. 99% of D2's content was never visited by any player. I'm extremely happy they changed that in D3.

    Boss drop rates are fine, if they were any better, people would go back to the old D2 pattern of neglecting 90% of game content. Even though people are complaining as hell, right now the "most efficient farming run" includes about 15-20% of the game, in D2 it was 1% (Baal, nothing else).


    With this big gap in player gear, it might have to happen if they want PVP to mean anything.

    I cant imagine a player who is stuck at MP2 level going against someone who can roast things in MP8.

    From what I have analyzed so far in this game, unless you spending a good bit of money, you are pretty much required to farm for about 700+ hours total before you even got a chance at anything higher than MP5 or 6.

    Its ludicrous.

    I think the only legit way to fix this loot system is run it like World of Warcrafts system, least the system WOW had in place about 3-4 years ago before Argent Dawn BS came, No game out there should EVER have such a gap in gear on a player like Diablo 3 has, no game dont except Everquest, thats old washed up with no one in it anymore, most in part for that reason to.

    Why do people have to be on equal footing in pvp? Why do you think people who hop on the game for 30 minutes a week deserve the same rewards as those who do 8 hours a night?

    They dont have to be.

    But they should stand a chance to some degree, the issue with this game is is Skill does not not dictate power, this a very basic fundamental rule in gaming that is flawed in this game.

    As for Boss drops.......... Shouldnt killing bosses mean something outside of quest?

    I rest my case.

    You dont go into World of Warcraft and kill Ragnaros and see all blues drop do you? You dont go farming trash mobs for godly drops in WOW do you?

    No, you dont do this in any game but fucking D3, thats an issue.

    Couple flaws in your argument, 1, Diablo and ARPGs arent really about skill. It's more about farming gear, fidning efficient farm routes, customizing and experimenting with builds and knowing the numbers behind your character which converts to it's power in-game.

    The game uses a very simple point-and-click combat system, and a small set of spells allowed on your bar. Having better gear is going to mean you win most times, because unless your playing a complete non-gamer, skill won't make a difference. I am not saying I agree it's the best design for a game......but it is completely in-line with what an ARPG is.

    When you buy an RTS, the skill in those games is managing your resources, managing many units at once, having complete control and speed of your hotkeys. At no point are the skills from a shooter used to say an RTS requirs no skill, it is just a different skill set.

    ARPGs arent meant to be MMO-style PVP.....or shooter style......or as strategic as RTSs. Comparing the skill in any of these is pointless. ARPGs require some precision of your gameplay, knowing how your build works against other builds, hitting spells at the right time, which require skill. But will never require the same skill-level as a sub-rogue in WOW. Nor should they, this is NOT wow, and most fans of ARPGs don't want that style of combat. Otherwise they would just go play an MMOs PVP.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Bosses drop chance
    Quote from pikke

    Blizz could force you to start far off from a boss after you kill it the first time.
    Like two or 3 missions earlier, that would force players to run at least a third of an Act.
    Es. if you want to run The Butcher you need to start from Leoric Manor otherwise no act boss or no drop increase.
    Add that to minibosses like Skeleton King (you should be forced to start from, say, finding the crown in the cemetery) and players will need to run most of act 1.

    Yah, no. So if you are just trying to progress through the game, and end up a quest before SK, and logged out for any reason.....you would have to run a 1/3rd of the act again?

    How about if I just like the end of the game, I cant play it cuz you want to add this silly mechanic so bosses feel worthwhile? This is ahorrible idea. You can accomplish the exact same thing many different ways without changing savepoints. The whole point of game design is comeing up with ideas that solve problems without creating others. If the whole goal is to "force" players to play an act longer before getting worthwhile rewards from a boss, just add a buff that stacks when you kill an elite that adds MF to boss kills.........Oh wait, they have that.....

    Once you have your 5-stack, boss rewards just need to be better. to be worth killing them.

    If you made it as efficient as just continuing to kill elites......who gives a crap if people just farm bosses???????
    This is what never made sense to me from Blizzard. I can understand logging in for a boss ala Baal is something they dont want to FORCE........but if you get 5 NV, kill a boss, and restart........for equal reward as just running a whole act........how is that bad???

    It gives people different ways to accomplish the same thing, that is the whole problem with the game, they "force" you into farming act 3. And in my opinion.....it's done out of laziness and taking the easy way out. The answer is so obvious it's silly, adjust drop rates/mob density in different acts/bosses/etc so they have equal efficiency.It is a cop-out to say "we don't want the most efficient farming to be killing 1 boss over and over, so instead of balancing it, we will just make it completely inefficient because it's too hard to make things balanced"

    Thats obvious by the fact they still havent even attempted to balance act 3 against the rest of the game.

    You can argue that its not that easy, because the coding is too complicated or complex to easily adjust those things.....guess what? A good game programmer would have thought of this ahead of time, and allowed the code to be more easily adjusted for obvious game systems that will need to be adjusted over time:
    - Loot drop rates/quantities
    - Stat allocations on gear
    - Spell and rune numbers
    - Mob density
    - Elite/Champ density

    These are all things the developers/programmers should have planned for before launch. The fact that after 8 months they can't adjust mob density in A1/2/4 is a failure on their part.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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    posted a message on Bosses drop chance
    Quote from patcarnig

    As stated above the boss drop rates are on par with keywardens, and last weekend I got a double set drop off the A2 keywarden! Never seen that off an elite pack ;-). Keep killing bosses, it's basically like running into one extra elite pack, the drops will come.

    Except KWs are right along the run, no annoying cutscenes, and take 1/5th the time to kill without slowing down your run.

    As long as bosses take 10 times longer than an elite to kill, and offer only a % more loot, they won't be worth doing.
    Posted in: Diablo III General Discussion
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