Bashiok recently commented on a member's question about Monster Mobs that aren't too generic.
Battle.Net Member
This is more of a "is it easily possible?" or a "how can this be done?" to the techies out there who know 3d modeling and making games:
On his own, the Unburied looks pretty cool. When there are three or four standing next to each other, exactly identical, it looks kind of less-amazing. What I want to know is can there possibly be a RANDOM generation of features on mobs (particularly big ones like this guy where you really notice it) such as the position/number of spikes on his back, the size and shape of head and limbs, etc?
Does this put too much strain on CPU/GPU to be feasible? Will creating the code for this random model maker take a team of coders six months of hard work to get working? Would it be easier to just design say, 10 models of each mob and then when populating a map with mods, randomly select from these 10 models?
Bashiok
Well to be perfectly honest all of these shots are set up. Generally you're probably not going to run into that many at one time. So a couple dispersed within a sea of every other monster, you don't see the stark repetition. I don't think normal spawning conditions would have that many facing you at once, especially because they're kind of tough.
As far as having randomized creatures... mmm... it would take a lot of work but of course it wouldn't be impossible. The question is though, does that massive undertaking just to make sure a creature doesn't look the same as the one next to it matter when they're dead within a matter of seconds? Probably not.
Or a more important question is, how many unique types of monsters do we cut from the final game so this guy doesn't always have an arm in the same place?
The stark reality of production schedules! They give me nightmares too.
There will be creature variations, but it's not quite the same as randomization of body parts.
So there you have it, you probably won't see screens filled with nothing but the unburied.
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Those before me shall quiver in my wake as I unleash the fury within!
I thought the same thing when I saw it. But think about diablo 2.
It is essentially the same, but whats the difference besides better graphics?
Well, in diablo 2 tons of different mobs were all in the same area creating an effect of diversity.
So, to see how it will look in diablo 3 somebody could photoshop the other creatures from the bestiary in one image with a background.
I'm sure it would look fine.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Doppel, please, you're capable of intelligent conversations. You don't need to sprinkle every argument with personal attacks and curse words that aren't needed.
Secondly, we're talking about adding on additional 3D parameters, not just changing some colors. Adding algorithms to control random monster creation, in addition to random dungeon creation, in addition to random quests, in addition to the other instances and programs all running simultaneously is suicide for computers that don't have the l33t up to date gear. It would include adding additional 3D models, which would take time to get through because of concept artists and the modeling, itself, and they will not want to have to make more disks than is necessary to contain all the game data- that costs more money.
And, like he said, monsters in Diablo die in seconds. It isn't necessary. I'd much rather see more amazing super unique monsters.
And, again, you have no credentials or experience, so you cannot possibly say that something is easy. Just because the end result is a simple-looking addition doesn't mean the algorithms and extra code blocks are.
And you continue to only offer attacks on me personally and complete avoid every sane argument I've given you. And you continue to only offer opinions about things you don't even understand. I give up on you; wallow in your ignorance.
I don't see any valid excuse to not make certain parts of monsters generate randomly. The wording of Bashiok ("a lot of work", "massive undertaking", even whether it would have any effect on "production schedules") is just utter BS.
Read this:
Bashiok
"..Or a more important question is, how many unique types of monsters do we cut from the final game so this guy doesn't always have an arm in the same place?
The stark reality of production schedules! They give me nightmares too."
It's not even the point of taking too much time.
I'd rather have more Unique Diablo III monsters and shit than worrying about one monster having varying looks.
One monster isn't worth the cutting of many monsters from the final product.
This one should remain the way he is so that we have more uniques.
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Watching 240 guys talk trash about cavaliers is like two retards having a slapfight over a sippy cup.
I do not have any qualifications to tell you the obvious truth? Get the hell out of here. Give me one valid reason why what Bashiok told you isn't utter bull-shit.
It's not utter bullshit because it would still be an undertaking on some level. Whether it's considered massive or not could depend on what they still have to do with the game.
I wonder how if it's not so massive, how come every game has the exact same look for each type of monster.
I guess so. I do think Bashiok is embellishing the scale of the task. But I often find the way he words things anyway is somewhat dramatic. All I care about though is that we do know the monsters are going to be mixed up and not all just identical clones.
The question wasn't if it was possible, the question was if it was feasible in relation to their current team's state employment-wise, to their current schedule, to their resources, and to the necessity of it. The simplest solution is just not making as many enemies appear in a horde, like in Diablo II on the River of Flame when you have fifty beetles and Urdars attacking you at once. Things like being more sparse in monster placement, not over-using powerful-looking enemies, and the like would be simple solutions without having to add additional algorithmic functions and additional 3D models, all of which would need to be made from scratch, would take up additional space and production time, and would not be feasible if they want to release it in a good time window. They would need to do all of that for each new monster they make- it would be overkill since we kill monsters so fast.
Maybe they'll go for it, though. There's always that thought. I don't particularly care- the repercussions would not affect me, they would affect people with slower computers and connections as well as the release date, which I'm in no rush to get to since I have a million other things to do with my time right now
If they did it for one enemy they they would have to do it for many others as well. It's really a matter of putting aspects of the game in order of importance and dishing out the work hours accordingly. Randomized limbs would be cool but a new death animation would be cooler. You know, shit like that. Because when people notice the death animation they'll remember it and if they eventually notice that the monsters vary a little bit they probably wont.
That's a ridicilous answer.
"he's right because he's right" kinda...
If you were doing a report about impressionistic painting, and you cited a random person of the street for your entire argument who had no background knowledge in the subject, is he or she credible? No. Only for opinion, but not for facts. In the same way, I cited a person who actually has credentials and experience. I'm nto saying "he's right because he's right", I'm saying "he's right because he has the background to know what he's talking about".
I like how Murderface put it. Basically, do we want to sacrifice other elements of the game to make monsters we'll kill in seconds worth looking at for that brief amount of time? I'd say no.
Doppel, please, you're capable of intelligent conversations. You don't need to sprinkle every argument with personal attacks and curse words that aren't needed.
Oh come on now. You should know by now that that's the only way he can argue. He's right, you're wrong, and you're a moron for disagreeing with him.
I do think that Bashiok's responses of "a lot of work", and "a massive undertaking" were a little defensive on his part. In my opinion Bstapylton brought up a a very good point, and random generation of body parts on creatures would add another element of uniqueness to every players experience while playing diablo 3.
Now I'm not saying that every creature should have this. For instance I think that the cultists should look all the same, because they're in an f'ing cult. But monsters that are supposed to spawn from body parts of mass buirials is another story completely.
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So there you have it, you probably won't see screens filled with nothing but the unburied.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
It is essentially the same, but whats the difference besides better graphics?
Well, in diablo 2 tons of different mobs were all in the same area creating an effect of diversity.
So, to see how it will look in diablo 3 somebody could photoshop the other creatures from the bestiary in one image with a background.
I'm sure it would look fine.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Secondly, we're talking about adding on additional 3D parameters, not just changing some colors. Adding algorithms to control random monster creation, in addition to random dungeon creation, in addition to random quests, in addition to the other instances and programs all running simultaneously is suicide for computers that don't have the l33t up to date gear. It would include adding additional 3D models, which would take time to get through because of concept artists and the modeling, itself, and they will not want to have to make more disks than is necessary to contain all the game data- that costs more money.
And, like he said, monsters in Diablo die in seconds. It isn't necessary. I'd much rather see more amazing super unique monsters.
And, again, you have no credentials or experience, so you cannot possibly say that something is easy. Just because the end result is a simple-looking addition doesn't mean the algorithms and extra code blocks are.
Read this:
Bashiok
"..Or a more important question is, how many unique types of monsters do we cut from the final game so this guy doesn't always have an arm in the same place?
The stark reality of production schedules! They give me nightmares too."
It's not even the point of taking too much time.
I'd rather have more Unique Diablo III monsters and shit than worrying about one monster having varying looks.
One monster isn't worth the cutting of many monsters from the final product.
This one should remain the way he is so that we have more uniques.
I def don't think it's worth the time and effort for some crappy variations your gonna see for 3 secs.
I think slight colour tones on the monsters could help a pack look less generic.
I wonder how if it's not so massive, how come every game has the exact same look for each type of monster.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Maybe they'll go for it, though. There's always that thought. I don't particularly care- the repercussions would not affect me, they would affect people with slower computers and connections as well as the release date, which I'm in no rush to get to since I have a million other things to do with my time right now
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
If you were doing a report about impressionistic painting, and you cited a random person of the street for your entire argument who had no background knowledge in the subject, is he or she credible? No. Only for opinion, but not for facts. In the same way, I cited a person who actually has credentials and experience. I'm nto saying "he's right because he's right", I'm saying "he's right because he has the background to know what he's talking about".
I like how Murderface put it. Basically, do we want to sacrifice other elements of the game to make monsters we'll kill in seconds worth looking at for that brief amount of time? I'd say no.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Oh come on now. You should know by now that that's the only way he can argue. He's right, you're wrong, and you're a moron for disagreeing with him.
Doppel would make an outstanding TV Clergyman.
CyberPunk RP Nexus
Now I'm not saying that every creature should have this. For instance I think that the cultists should look all the same, because they're in an f'ing cult. But monsters that are supposed to spawn from body parts of mass buirials is another story completely.