If anyone will address another concern I have about Christianity. The Earth was apparently created 6000 years ago while Jesus came to be 2000 years ago. If Jesus was the messenger of God in a sense and as such, the bible was created in his honour, and the bible speaks of obeying the ten commandments or you will go to hell if you don't pray for forgiveness, then would've all those that lived between 2000-6000 years ago be left in the dark about it all and since they had no knowledge of praying or of god then they would go to hell because everyone obviously sins.
I don't know much about the old testament, but did this book address this concern? What was the ancient peoples' beliefs regarding Christianity?
Good try, but not even close to a valid argument.
Before Christ, judaism was God's religion he ordained. People had to offer animal sacrifices to have their sins "rolled back" for the year, this system was never perfect and God meant it not be so Christ could be the perfect sacrifice to forgive everyone's sins if they accepted him. But, if someone died under the old law (old testament) and was a devout jew keeping the commandments of the old law and died, they would be saved.
No thank you. What is you came back as a fly doomed to eat crap? Or something worse because your current life is too good now?
My luck I'd come back as an ingrown hair on a cows butt.
Considering that a fly's life is short as hell and so distant from a human's life we have nothing in common, you would not come back as a fly, I assure you.
Human-human reincarnation, though, makes perfect sense, is completely fair, and provides an excellent number of recyclable souls...
I think it's a kinda lame point tbh. I don't presume to know that he would be malevolent based on his decisions. After all, he would be god. I highly doubt my logic could even conceive the reason why he/she/it did something..Maybe the atheists would like to question a being that has existed for an infinite amount of time prior to their own existence but, I'll leave that one to them.
And some would say that I was being a blind faith follower or something(for the record, no I'm not religious), but it has nothing to do with that. Could God be wrong in his decisions? No, it's literally not possible. God, being the creator of existence(by most standards, at least in this instance he is), he/she/it(lol) is the ultimate standard for good and bad. If there is a such thing as good and bad, the only way it could be anything more than a mere concept that changes constantly based on perception is if it has an ultimate standard such as God.
See..this is why I have a problem with some atheists. My aunt is an atheist. And her most prolific argument is "well, I don't believe in a god that would let all this evil happen in the world and let all these people die." Why do people have this peculiar idea that they would ever be able to understand why God chose to do or not do something? And why does not understanding this, mean that there is no god(s) at all? I guess it boils down to them not understanding that God does not hav to fit in the small parameters given by the bible. Although, he does some serious ownage of people in the bible as well.
YA! That brings me to my next point. This one is mostly for Americans. Why would anybody in their right mind who has ever read the bible think that America is God's country and he protects us? That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What would be faaaaarrr more plausible in perspective to that claim would be that God sent those airplanes into the twin towers. Why? Well, read the bible. Remember Sodom and Gamorrah? Cities with gay people, everyone was fucking in general, murder, worshiping of false gods and idols. Then take a look at America. If thats how it went down back then with those 2 cities, I'm surprised America still exists even as a land mass lol.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Well, the problem that I see with that is there are two distinct definitions of good and evil in that situation that are not being addressed. 1 being the universal definition set out by God that does not change despite the situation or perception. Then there is the definition that humans try to define which is yielding to circumstances. You can't put limits on the definition of good and bad by the standards of God with the standards that humans hold it at. Just because we can't logically conceive of a non yielding, definitive definition of good and evil,, does not mean that one does not exist.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Well it really depends on how you look at God. For Catholics/Christians and subdivisions of it, they look to God as a father figure that is always loving and cares for everyone no matter what. That's a nice view no matter how you look at it, but then there's the question of "why is he/she/it absent from the world right now?"
I think that's the birth of Athiesm and in a way, Deism. Deism still holds God into account, but does not enforce the prospect of said God being caring or whatnot. Basically that God created the universe and existence, and that's where ends, from there it can evolve into many different beliefs.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus
Bolded the part I want to take into account. Not willing doesn't directly translate into malevolent, Epicurus is wrong on this one. Malevolent means wishing evil and harm onto one, not willing doesn't mean this, more likely translates into apathetic or ignorant.
Could God just believe that the affairs of mortals are too simplistic and not worth attention/intervention? Or could it be that God has a grand plan for it all, or something else entirely?
Well it really depends on how you look at God. For Catholics/Christians and subdivisions of it, they look to God as a father figure that is always loving and cares for everyone no matter what. That's a nice view no matter how you look at it, but then there's the question of "why is he/she/it absent from the world right now?"
Well the real question is, "Why is this person only recorded in time where believing in Zues, Hera, Thor, and witches acceptable?"
I think that's the birth of Athiesm and in a way, Deism. Deism still holds God into account, but does not enforce the prospect of said God being caring or whatnot. Basically that God created the universe and existence, and that's where ends, from there it can evolve into many different beliefs
Yet we don't know anything about existence or the creation of the universe. Why does a deity have to be responsible for creation? I prefer to wait to so that we can find a naturalistic explanation for the universe.
Could God just believe that the affairs of mortals are too simplistic and not worth attention/intervention? Or could it be that God has a grand plan for it all, or something else entirely?
Well it really depends on how you look at God. For Catholics/Christians and subdivisions of it, they look to God as a father figure that is always loving and cares for everyone no matter what. That's a nice view no matter how you look at it, but then there's the question of "why is he/she/it absent from the world right now?"
Well the real question is, "Why is this person only recorded in time where believing in Zues, Hera, Thor, and witches acceptable?"
I think that's the birth of Athiesm and in a way, Deism. Deism still holds God into account, but does not enforce the prospect of said God being caring or whatnot. Basically that God created the universe and existence, and that's where ends, from there it can evolve into many different beliefs
Yet we don't know anything about existence or the creation of the universe. Why does a deity have to be responsible for creation? I prefer to wait to so that we can find a naturalistic explanation for the universe.
Could God just believe that the affairs of mortals are too simplistic and not worth attention/intervention? Or could it be that God has a grand plan for it all, or something else entirely?
...
And what happens when the unexplainable just remains that, unexplainable? There are somethings that are better left unknown or shall remain unknown throughout time.
And really what's wrong with believing in a deity?
And what happens when the unexplainable just remains that, unexplainable? There are somethings that are better left unknown or shall remain unknown throughout time.
And really what's wrong with believing in a deity?
Like what? Honestly, just because we don't know what happened, it does not mean that a deity is responsible. This is the attitude of the people in the Dark Age, where everything was unexplainable and it was all apparently the work of God.
And what type of question is the last question? This is a religion vs. Atheism debate. I believe in an open-mind and the ability for each person to figure out his or her own morals. A belief of a deity has a bad track record with both of those, so I'm just going with the statistics, but there are a lot of religions that promote both.
And what happens when the unexplainable just remains that, unexplainable? There are somethings that are better left unknown or shall remain unknown throughout time.
And really what's wrong with believing in a deity?
Like what? Honestly, just because we don't know what happened, it does not mean that a deity is responsible. This is the attitude of the people in the Dark Age, where everything was unexplainable and it was all apparently the work of God.
And what type of question is the last question? This is a religion vs. Atheism debate. I believe in an open-mind and the ability for each person to figure out his or her own morals. A belief of a deity has a bad track record with both of those, so I'm just going with the statistics, but there are a lot of religions that promote both.
Thought it was Religion vs Science debate, might wanna change that title there.
Religion has a bad track record huh? Name a bad religion that didn't originate from the Middle East (Islam, Chatholicism/Christinaity, Jew, etc.). Again if your gonna use the broad term 'religion' instead of specific religions then you must take into account the many religions around the world.
I would say that religion is healthy if practiced right. Having something to believe in and to hold on to is good. Especially for the "average" person.
We cannot discriminate against religious people and say that their views are primitive because its not about the small numbers and facts. Its about the whole picture, its about the belief.
I think people should stop looking at the holy books and saying "this is how we should live" but say "Hey, lets learn how to be better people" because in the end all the religions say the exact same things.
If a strictly religious man was to be considered primitive or ignorant, he would be no different than an athiest trying to prove that religions are wrong all day.
And what happens when the unexplainable just remains that, unexplainable? There are somethings that are better left unknown or shall remain unknown throughout time.
And really what's wrong with believing in a deity?
Like what? Honestly, just because we don't know what happened, it does not mean that a deity is responsible. This is the attitude of the people in the Dark Age, where everything was unexplainable and it was all apparently the work of God.
And what type of question is the last question? This is a religion vs. Atheism debate. I believe in an open-mind and the ability for each person to figure out his or her own morals. A belief of a deity has a bad track record with both of those, so I'm just going with the statistics, but there are a lot of religions that promote both.
Thought it was Religion vs Science debate, might wanna change that title there.
Religion has a bad track record huh? Name a bad religion that didn't originate from the Middle East (Islam, Chatholicism/Christinaity, Jew, etc.). Again if your gonna use the broad term 'religion' instead of specific religions then you must take into account the many religions around the world.
Name a religion that didn't originate from the Middle East? What???? Are you serious? Buddhism? There's one. Plus many, many others.
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
You asked for a religion that didn't originate from the Middle East...
-yawns- Sorry had a brainfart.
Anyways, you've just proved my original point that religion is not entirely subject to a 'badtrack record against open-mindedness and self-morals' .
What??? Whoa whoa... Stop right there. If anything, I just provided an example for you that completely disproves your idea that "No religion has ever formed outside the Middle East". But I guess that doesn't mean anything anymore.
Alright, here are some throw-ins of lack of open-mindedness and self-morals by religion.
- The Big Bang Theory is fake
- Evolution is fake
- Science is a lie
- Homosexuality is a sin
- Creation according to the Religion Book is the only way
- The Religion Book is your life and you must live by it
- Unknown knowledge = proof of God
- Technology is a evil and corrupting thing
-The Big Bang theory isn't even 100% scientifically proven
-Evolution of monkeys into full-blown humans is the only theory disproved by Islam
-Islam has never stated that all science is a lie. Otherwise, you'd never see a devout Muslim in a hospital, which definitely is not the case..Saudi Arabia has hospitals. Iran has hospitals, and they're both extremists.
-Homosexuality is basically a sin against nature. Men are supposed to be with women, otherwise, both men and women would be able to carry a child. That's the ultimate goal really, to conceive progeny (speaking absolutely naturally here, considering only the laws of science which you practically worship). Man/Man or Woman/Woman relationships do not hold the possibility of creating progeny, and as such are obsolete in nature, and shouldn't even occur.
-The Quran guides you through many life-problems, and it really does make a lot of things way easier. I can live without alcohol, pork, boning women before I get married...etc. What it asks of you isn't impossible to do, nor would it hinder you from living an absolutely normal life. I think of it as a guideline, and a good one at that. I don't really know about Christianity and the Bible on this one, since I haven't been REALLY exposed to them, so I hope you can see it from my "Islamic" POV.
-Unknown knowledge doesn't necessarily mean it's proof of God's existence. There are several other reasons that compel me to believe in God. The only reason I keep bringing up the creation of the universe, is because thousands of years in, we still can't get around the very first thing about the universe's creation, and we might as well wait another 20 million years to figure out for sure how the universe is created, yet we'd still be at square one. If it somehow created itself in the void, who or what created the void? You might ask "who created God ?"..faith has an integral role in this equation. If you don't have it, feel free to not believe in God. I, however, do. I want some endgame content when I die.
-No one has ever said that technology is bad, otherwise, Muslims and Christians would never ride cars, would never travel (I'm pretty sure the pope travels..he was in Lebanon once), wear clothes that aren't hand-sewn...etc.
Several of your assumptions are completely false.
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If you really want to know what Creationism/Intelligent Design is go look up Kent Hovind, but I warn you, your blood will boil.
My luck I'd come back as an ingrown hair on a cows butt.
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Good try, but not even close to a valid argument.
Before Christ, judaism was God's religion he ordained. People had to offer animal sacrifices to have their sins "rolled back" for the year, this system was never perfect and God meant it not be so Christ could be the perfect sacrifice to forgive everyone's sins if they accepted him. But, if someone died under the old law (old testament) and was a devout jew keeping the commandments of the old law and died, they would be saved.
unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes, fsck, fsck, fsck, umount, sleep
Human-human reincarnation, though, makes perfect sense, is completely fair, and provides an excellent number of recyclable souls...
And some would say that I was being a blind faith follower or something(for the record, no I'm not religious), but it has nothing to do with that. Could God be wrong in his decisions? No, it's literally not possible. God, being the creator of existence(by most standards, at least in this instance he is), he/she/it(lol) is the ultimate standard for good and bad. If there is a such thing as good and bad, the only way it could be anything more than a mere concept that changes constantly based on perception is if it has an ultimate standard such as God.
See..this is why I have a problem with some atheists. My aunt is an atheist. And her most prolific argument is "well, I don't believe in a god that would let all this evil happen in the world and let all these people die." Why do people have this peculiar idea that they would ever be able to understand why God chose to do or not do something? And why does not understanding this, mean that there is no god(s) at all? I guess it boils down to them not understanding that God does not hav to fit in the small parameters given by the bible. Although, he does some serious ownage of people in the bible as well.
YA! That brings me to my next point. This one is mostly for Americans. Why would anybody in their right mind who has ever read the bible think that America is God's country and he protects us? That has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. What would be faaaaarrr more plausible in perspective to that claim would be that God sent those airplanes into the twin towers. Why? Well, read the bible. Remember Sodom and Gamorrah? Cities with gay people, everyone was fucking in general, murder, worshiping of false gods and idols. Then take a look at America. If thats how it went down back then with those 2 cities, I'm surprised America still exists even as a land mass lol.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I think that's the birth of Athiesm and in a way, Deism. Deism still holds God into account, but does not enforce the prospect of said God being caring or whatnot. Basically that God created the universe and existence, and that's where ends, from there it can evolve into many different beliefs.
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
-Epicurus
Bolded the part I want to take into account. Not willing doesn't directly translate into malevolent, Epicurus is wrong on this one. Malevolent means wishing evil and harm onto one, not willing doesn't mean this, more likely translates into apathetic or ignorant.
Could God just believe that the affairs of mortals are too simplistic and not worth attention/intervention? Or could it be that God has a grand plan for it all, or something else entirely?
Well the real question is, "Why is this person only recorded in time where believing in Zues, Hera, Thor, and witches acceptable?"
Yet we don't know anything about existence or the creation of the universe. Why does a deity have to be responsible for creation? I prefer to wait to so that we can find a naturalistic explanation for the universe.
...
And what happens when the unexplainable just remains that, unexplainable? There are somethings that are better left unknown or shall remain unknown throughout time.
And really what's wrong with believing in a deity?
Like what? Honestly, just because we don't know what happened, it does not mean that a deity is responsible. This is the attitude of the people in the Dark Age, where everything was unexplainable and it was all apparently the work of God.
And what type of question is the last question? This is a religion vs. Atheism debate. I believe in an open-mind and the ability for each person to figure out his or her own morals. A belief of a deity has a bad track record with both of those, so I'm just going with the statistics, but there are a lot of religions that promote both.
Thought it was Religion vs Science debate, might wanna change that title there.
Religion has a bad track record huh? Name a bad religion that didn't originate from the Middle East (Islam, Chatholicism/Christinaity, Jew, etc.). Again if your gonna use the broad term 'religion' instead of specific religions then you must take into account the many religions around the world.
We cannot discriminate against religious people and say that their views are primitive because its not about the small numbers and facts. Its about the whole picture, its about the belief.
I think people should stop looking at the holy books and saying "this is how we should live" but say "Hey, lets learn how to be better people" because in the end all the religions say the exact same things.
If a strictly religious man was to be considered primitive or ignorant, he would be no different than an athiest trying to prove that religions are wrong all day.
Name a religion that didn't originate from the Middle East? What???? Are you serious? Buddhism? There's one. Plus many, many others.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Buddhism? Wrong. Originated in India, which is not in the Middle East.
You asked for a religion that didn't originate from the Middle East...
-yawns- Sorry had a brainfart.
Anyways, you've just proved my original point that religion is not entirely subject to a 'badtrack record against open-mindedness and self-morals' .
What??? Whoa whoa... Stop right there. If anything, I just provided an example for you that completely disproves your idea that "No religion has ever formed outside the Middle East". But I guess that doesn't mean anything anymore.
Alright, here are some throw-ins of lack of open-mindedness and self-morals by religion.
- The Big Bang Theory is fake
- Evolution is fake
- Science is a lie
- Homosexuality is a sin
- Creation according to the Religion Book is the only way
- The Religion Book is your life and you must live by it
- Unknown knowledge = proof of God
- Technology is a evil and corrupting thing
The list goes on.
-Evolution of monkeys into full-blown humans is the only theory disproved by Islam
-Islam has never stated that all science is a lie. Otherwise, you'd never see a devout Muslim in a hospital, which definitely is not the case..Saudi Arabia has hospitals. Iran has hospitals, and they're both extremists.
-Homosexuality is basically a sin against nature. Men are supposed to be with women, otherwise, both men and women would be able to carry a child. That's the ultimate goal really, to conceive progeny (speaking absolutely naturally here, considering only the laws of science which you practically worship). Man/Man or Woman/Woman relationships do not hold the possibility of creating progeny, and as such are obsolete in nature, and shouldn't even occur.
-The Quran guides you through many life-problems, and it really does make a lot of things way easier. I can live without alcohol, pork, boning women before I get married...etc. What it asks of you isn't impossible to do, nor would it hinder you from living an absolutely normal life. I think of it as a guideline, and a good one at that. I don't really know about Christianity and the Bible on this one, since I haven't been REALLY exposed to them, so I hope you can see it from my "Islamic" POV.
-Unknown knowledge doesn't necessarily mean it's proof of God's existence. There are several other reasons that compel me to believe in God. The only reason I keep bringing up the creation of the universe, is because thousands of years in, we still can't get around the very first thing about the universe's creation, and we might as well wait another 20 million years to figure out for sure how the universe is created, yet we'd still be at square one. If it somehow created itself in the void, who or what created the void? You might ask "who created God ?"..faith has an integral role in this equation. If you don't have it, feel free to not believe in God. I, however, do. I want some endgame content when I die.
-No one has ever said that technology is bad, otherwise, Muslims and Christians would never ride cars, would never travel (I'm pretty sure the pope travels..he was in Lebanon once), wear clothes that aren't hand-sewn...etc.
Several of your assumptions are completely false.
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions