I had a random thought... I've been thinking of ways to give wizzes and WDs a level ground as to LS while using wands and knives... make their class specific weapons able to roll up to 6% LS... barb weapons and 1 handed xbows roll to 3, and can be dual wielded... monk fists same deal. Standard 1 hands can roll with 3, and can be dual wielded. Also, maybe bows can also roll up to 6%.. they're technically 2 handers anyway ;D anyone else feel this would be a good thing? If not, please feel free to share!
Yea and monks especially pay billions to get v good weps with LS crit socket dex.So 1 weapon of your kind you probably cost 4-5 billlion and will never see it on AH since it will always be sold on forums.Bad idea
Personally I dont think its necessary. WD/WIZ/DH are ranged characters. We dont need that much LS. Besides adding that much LS on a 1 hander and still allowing them that offhand would be OP imo. These classes arent designed to tank, though some builds can, but to hit and move.
What Wiz/WD need is an alternative to LS on the MH. We don't need to roll up to 6%. We don't need MORE life steal, we just need to be able to get it on a different slot.
Barbs have 2 weapons, mighty belt, and a passive for LS options. Monks and DHs have 2 weapons for LS options. Wiz and WD *only* have MH weapons for LS. That is the only problem. Most toons don't really need more than 2.5-3% LS. It just comes down to the complete inflexibility with that particular stat for WD/Wiz.
Wands are gimped to begin with because they ALWAYS roll with +max Arcane Power, leaving them one fewer random property compared to other class weapons.
I would prefer to keep life steal percentages on weapons as is, remove the guaranteed max AP on wands, and simply buff wizard/WD recovery options via skills. E.g., increase the 1.5% life steal from Blood Magic for wizards.
Intrinsic item properties should not count towards the number of affixes. Wands should have max AP like some weapons had +50% damage to undead in D2.
Very much agreed. I find myself wanting most of the class-specific bonuses, but specifically on weapons, just not having proper room for them to roll. Particularly as a WD using GI and GF, even max mana is useful - 100 points of mana gives 2 mana per nearby enemy killed and 20 mana per health globe, having that on three items is significant enough that I don't want to totally ignore it.
I worry somewhat that essentially giving a class-specific item EIGHT potential properties makes it too difficult to roll. Then again the way you're proposing it sounds like the class-specific bonuses would be more of a guaranteed thing, which would probably be the way to go.
Another thought along with that - just go with one, single, stat per class. I don't think we really gain all that much from multiple class-specific stats when they're *usually* a secondary consideration.
The problem is that fist weapons don't always roll spirit regeneration. Or mighty weapons don't always roll max fury. Or 1-handed crossbows with hatred regen/max discipline.
So why should wands always have a slot eaten up by max AP? And ceremonial knives with mana regen? They can all roll up to 6 random properties, and based on the official items database, max resource stats aren't listed as a given, but the items always roll the stat amongst the "random" properties. That's the weird thing there.
Dual-wielders get to have two sources of life steal, yet their weapons also have an additional slot that's not used up by class-specific resource stats to roll the life steal.
Wands and knives can still be awesome, except the chances of simultaneously rolling "int + % damage + crit damage + life steal + socket" is close to nothing because those five stats have to fit in the five remaining random properties... all just because the sixth property will always be that max resource stat.
Wands are gimped to begin with because they ALWAYS roll with +max Arcane Power, leaving them one fewer random property compared to other class weapons.
I would prefer to keep life steal percentages on weapons as is, remove the guaranteed max AP on wands, and simply buff wizard/WD recovery options via skills. E.g., increase the 1.5% life steal from Blood Magic for wizards.
Intrinsic item properties should not count towards the number of affixes. Wands should have max AP like some weapons had +50% damage to undead in D2.
By doing that you're mandating that the unique bonus can't be very good though. Class-specific weapons should be guaranteed to roll some class-specific bonus IMO, but not the same one every time. And if +Max AP isn't good enough it should be made better.
I just don't understand why wizzes and WDs have to be restricted to 3% ls and the other 3 classes can stack 6 or more... regardless of whether the character is a tank or not... why is a wiz able to stand in the thick of battle, at that rate? I don't need 6% on a 2 hander if its gonna do that much damage... I only need 3. Using anything else does significantly less damage, and half the LS.... just doesn't make sense
How about perhaps adding life steal and LoH to the chance of possible affixes on sources, mojos and quivers? It would allow a bit more flexibility to builders that choose to utilize them. For example: a wizard could use a CD/socket EF and a life steal source, instead of having to breach 1m EHP. Instead of making 1h weapons with imbalanced stats, add the stat to the "flavor" item.
Moreover, as this is kind of a sour point to me, why not allow a witch doctor to equip a mojo and a crossbow? I know this steals some of DH's thunder, but thunder theft is ok. Logistically, I could tie a mystical frog or an eviscerated chicken to a crossbow. Crossbows spawn with WD friendly mods, but are practically useless to us. It would be interesting to have the ability to use the bows I find on my witch doctor, without serious penalty to myself. Also, it would allow a manticore that spawns with intellect to have some use.
What Wiz/WD need is an alternative to LS on the MH. We don't need to roll up to 6%. We don't need MORE life steal, we just need to be able to get it on a different slot.
I've said this exact same thing before in regard to the post 1.08 itemization buffs. There should always be a few different slots to get particular stats from. Belts and shoulders are particularly boring slots and direly need more options.
I'm too lazy to read through everything, but you guys might remember one of the examples Travis Day gave with itemization was life steal on gloves. So I think more options will defiantly be opened up when that patch hits.
^ Actually, Blood Magic alone for wizards is rarely enough against Reflect Damage.
This is coming from someone with about 94% total damage reduction in Archon form. Reflect Damage still burns, except I have an absurd amount of HP that lasts long enough until the end of the fight (MP10). Can't say the same for the vast majority of other wizards who are generally forced to run a life steal weapon and skip out on other weapon stats.
I don't agree with adding life steal to shoulders and/or gloves. That will simply give barbs yet another slot to add life steal on top of mighty belts. Same with dual-wielding classes that run two life steal options.
Belts would be a better option considering mighty belts already have life steal. Even BiS items like Witching Hour will still retain their value that way. Some people may then decide to skip vitality stats in favor of a life steal roll on them; or armor, or double roll, etc. I know I would. Heck, even rare belts could potentially see more value for those searching for survivability.
...Or perhaps change topaz effects on weapons and off-hands? Instead of thorns on weapons, it could be life steal. Instead of primary stats on off-hands (sources/mojos/quivers), it could add life steal.
^ Actually, Blood Magic alone for wizards is rarely enough against Reflect Damage.
This is coming from someone with about 94% total damage reduction in Archon form. Reflect Damage still burns, except I have an absurd amount of HP that lasts long enough until the end of the fight (MP10). Can't say the same for the vast majority of other wizards who are generally forced to run a life steal weapon and skip out on other weapon stats.
I don't agree with adding life steal to shoulders and/or gloves. That will simply give barbs yet another slot to add life steal on top of mighty belts. Same with dual-wielding classes that run two life steal options.
Belts would be a better option considering mighty belts already have life steal. Even BiS items like Witching Hour will still retain their value that way. Some people may then decide to skip vitality stats in favor of a life steal roll on them; or armor, or double roll, etc. I know I would. Heck, even rare belts could potentially see more value for those searching for survivability.
...Or perhaps change topaz effects on weapons and off-hands? Instead of thorns on weapons, it could be life steal. Instead of primary stats on off-hands (sources/mojos/quivers), it could add life steal.
Honestly, I like the idea posited at the end of this post. If they were to change the function of a topaz in weapon to life steal, and make sockets in mojos, sources and quivers act like weapon rather than armor sockets, they could allow players to make an intelligent choice on what they would like their item to do. Also, blue posters have toyed with a way to make shields more interesting... Perhaps modifying offhand sockets in general to always function as a weapon, it could make a shield a more exciting choice. One could choose to play with a shield, choose to socket it with life steal or life on hit, and adjust their playstyle accordingly. Players would be opting out of critical hit damage for critical hit chance, and opting out of more attacks for more defense. This seems an entirely reasonable course of thought.
My only reservation would be a then necessary revamp of amethysts in weapon to bring life on hit in line with a life steal gem, and then balancing them with a ruby and emerald. Currently, an emerald offers up to 110% of an available stat roll to a 1h weapon. To make the choices feel equivalent, a marquise amethyst would need to offer 1100 life on hit, an a marquise topaz would need to offer 3.3% life stolen. It is my opinion that critical hit damage is partially imbalanced, thusly emeralds, simply because it is plentiful and the player can get a lot of it fairly easily. If gem choices were at least equivalent in the way they offer a bonus to a player, the player may find more incentive to choose gems other than an emerald or ruby.
What Wiz/WD need is an alternative to LS on the MH. We don't need to roll up to 6%. We don't need MORE life steal, we just need to be able to get it on a different slot.
I've said this exact same thing before in regard to the post 1.08 itemization buffs. There should always be a few different slots to get particular stats from. Belts and shoulders are particularly boring slots and direly need more options.
I'm not sure what this would accomplish since one would always be superior, and in this case overpoweringly better. If the catch is you wanting to afford something i'm afraid that this is the wrong way of doing it because the same unfulfilling feeling you have now would come crawling back when you realize you're using suboptimal setups in means of gaining the life steal. The most useful items will always be very expensive and adding a new item will just result in a collapse of the old and rise of the new.
What you described is only true when there is so few good affixes that you can easily choose BiS's for every slot instead of actually making tradeoffs. Part of what they claimed to be working on is making many more attractive affixes so that you're not always looking for cookie cutter main stat+vit+ra+cc+cd+ias on practically everything. Imagine if every slot had 10 good affixes that you wanted, instead of worrying about the theoretical BiS's you would instead look to trade some of the stats you have too much of to get more of the stats you lack. There would still be a couple people in the world paying through the roof to get those theoretical BiS items but everybody else would be making lots of tradeoffs and not competing directly for the exact same stats in every slot.
Honestly, I like the idea posited at the end of this post. If they were to change the function of a topaz in weapon to life steal, and make sockets in mojos, sources and quivers act like weapon rather than armor sockets, they could allow players to make an intelligent choice on what they would like their item to do. Also, blue posters have toyed with a way to make shields more interesting... Perhaps modifying offhand sockets in general to always function as a weapon, it could make a shield a more exciting choice. One could choose to play with a shield, choose to socket it with life steal or life on hit, and adjust their playstyle accordingly. Players would be opting out of critical hit damage for critical hit chance, and opting out of more attacks for more defense. This seems an entirely reasonable course of thought.
My only reservation would be a then necessary revamp of amethysts in weapon to bring life on hit in line with a life steal gem, and then balancing them with a ruby and emerald. Currently, an emerald offers up to 110% of an available stat roll to a 1h weapon. To make the choices feel equivalent, a marquise amethyst would need to offer 1100 life on hit, an a marquise topaz would need to offer 3.3% life stolen. It is my opinion that critical hit damage is partially imbalanced, thusly emeralds, simply because it is plentiful and the player can get a lot of it fairly easily. If gem choices were at least equivalent in the way they offer a bonus to a player, the player may find more incentive to choose gems other than an emerald or ruby.
Oh come on now, if sources and mojos were considered weapons instead of armor you could literally gain like 1000 average damage from one piece of gear. To shields maybe, to class restricted offhands - no chance. This would also force a socket to the high end items removing key elements like arcane power on crit to roll on them, again making more equipment more expensive.
You're confusing the gem benefits. Emeralds and Rubys grant offensive bonuses while Amethysts and Topazes would grant defensive ones, these two types have a different meaning and should not be balanced the way you explained.
I'm confusing nothing. I understand that a ruby and an emerald are offensive, while a topaz and amethyst are defensive bonuses. However, wouldn't it be an exciting choice to be able to choose a defensive stat that has similar scaling to an offensive one? I know of nobody that plays this game on an elite level that chooses any defensive weapon socket, as the scaling is garbage and the offensive stats are shinier.
What is wrong with gaining 1000 average damage from an offhand? Cool, my weapon now hits harder, or I now recover health (to use the idea jaetch posited and I offered embellishments to). It still isn't tremendously imbalanced. Dual wielding grants 15% IAS, along with the stats on the second weapon... Along with the fact that you have another weapon that you are attacking with. Pretty cool DPS increases if you ask me. Why shouldn't an offhand offer me something similar to another weapon, but with its own flavor? Instead of another attack, and more chd, I get some more crit and something tuning up my damage. I will attack a lot less frequently, but hit harder with what I do.
Finally, why argue itemization? Weapons already clearly follow the "no socket is cheap and accessible, while socket is rare and sought out by high end players" mechanic. Why should offhands be different? One would be making the choice generally between getting vitality on their offhand, or an extra primary stat roll for a socket, and the extra variation it would bring. I don't know about you... But choosing an item based on the quality of a damage roll and whether or not it rolled a vitality stat isn't that exciting to me. Choosing between more of a core stat, or a socket for a combat stat, be it offensive or defensive, seems much more engaging. Sure, choosing a combat stat would be preferrential, but I'm sure some people would still choose a higher EHP option.
I said nothing about removing class specific affixes, simply either adding more to the pool (my first post) or allowing the gems to act like another weapon (second post). Having to make more choices makes the game exciting: Do I choose damage? Do I need more survival? Do I need resource regeneration? Do I need a larger resource pool? Every choice a player gets to make allows for more variation, more potential for new builds, more potential for something novel and exciting. I like the visceral feeling of making decisions that DIRECTLY affect my performance. Too many decisions are being made for casters at the moment, and allowing them a modicum of more customization would allow them the same game experience a barbarian, monk or dual hand crossbow DH enjoys. Class specific modifiers add flavor to items, but they should be a choice; carefully selected to enhance your playstyle. With item enhancements somewhere over the rainbow, you will see a majority of WD players using a ilevel 63 homunculus or 63 thing of the deep, and a majority of wizards only wanting a 63 triumvirate, even less variation than currently exists... And those choices will be made because of the bonuses those items offer players, some of which are very class specific.
Edit: I missed the point slightly with your post on class specific affixes. The only affix that randomly rolls on an offhand that is desirable is APOC, and certain builds require it, so that it wouldn't rot in the dust. Mana pool, AP pool and mana regen are generally fixed on certain offhands, and people choose those items with it base, rather than allowing it to waste a roll on an item it does not usually come on. You wouldn't be choosing socket over regen or APOC. You would be choosing socket over a stat roll, as vitality or intellect rolls are already preferrential to a class stat (other than that bloated APOC).
Equal isn't a word that can be used to describe it... wds and wizzes will still have less overall... LS on belts and other armor will just benefit barbs... I limited the LS for wizzes and wds to their class specific weapon, so that only they would be able to stack more, thus making it an equal playing field in regards to LS... simply shift the number from 3 to 6. It'd make me want to use a ceremonial knife.
And to the guy that didn't understand what I was saying about not understanding the rest of my post earlier, more damage with more life steal yields more life stolen per hit. Less damage with less life steal yields less life stolen per hit. Less damage with the same 6% life steal would yield far better health than the BS 3% on CKs now.
Having 6% on class specifics would eliminate other classes being able to stack MORE and making wizzes and WDs able to stack 6% (just like the rest of the classes)
Barbs have 2 weapons, mighty belt, and a passive for LS options. Monks and DHs have 2 weapons for LS options. Wiz and WD *only* have MH weapons for LS. That is the only problem. Most toons don't really need more than 2.5-3% LS. It just comes down to the complete inflexibility with that particular stat for WD/Wiz.
I would prefer to keep life steal percentages on weapons as is, remove the guaranteed max AP on wands, and simply buff wizard/WD recovery options via skills. E.g., increase the 1.5% life steal from Blood Magic for wizards.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
Monks need another option though. Barbs have 2 weapons in addition to belt and passive. Monks only have two weapons.
Very much agreed. I find myself wanting most of the class-specific bonuses, but specifically on weapons, just not having proper room for them to roll. Particularly as a WD using GI and GF, even max mana is useful - 100 points of mana gives 2 mana per nearby enemy killed and 20 mana per health globe, having that on three items is significant enough that I don't want to totally ignore it.
I worry somewhat that essentially giving a class-specific item EIGHT potential properties makes it too difficult to roll. Then again the way you're proposing it sounds like the class-specific bonuses would be more of a guaranteed thing, which would probably be the way to go.
Another thought along with that - just go with one, single, stat per class. I don't think we really gain all that much from multiple class-specific stats when they're *usually* a secondary consideration.
So why should wands always have a slot eaten up by max AP? And ceremonial knives with mana regen? They can all roll up to 6 random properties, and based on the official items database, max resource stats aren't listed as a given, but the items always roll the stat amongst the "random" properties. That's the weird thing there.
Dual-wielders get to have two sources of life steal, yet their weapons also have an additional slot that's not used up by class-specific resource stats to roll the life steal.
Wands and knives can still be awesome, except the chances of simultaneously rolling "int + % damage + crit damage + life steal + socket" is close to nothing because those five stats have to fit in the five remaining random properties... all just because the sixth property will always be that max resource stat.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
By doing that you're mandating that the unique bonus can't be very good though. Class-specific weapons should be guaranteed to roll some class-specific bonus IMO, but not the same one every time. And if +Max AP isn't good enough it should be made better.
Moreover, as this is kind of a sour point to me, why not allow a witch doctor to equip a mojo and a crossbow? I know this steals some of DH's thunder, but thunder theft is ok. Logistically, I could tie a mystical frog or an eviscerated chicken to a crossbow. Crossbows spawn with WD friendly mods, but are practically useless to us. It would be interesting to have the ability to use the bows I find on my witch doctor, without serious penalty to myself. Also, it would allow a manticore that spawns with intellect to have some use.
DiabloProgress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/mannequin-1116/Stitches/14628018
This is coming from someone with about 94% total damage reduction in Archon form. Reflect Damage still burns, except I have an absurd amount of HP that lasts long enough until the end of the fight (MP10). Can't say the same for the vast majority of other wizards who are generally forced to run a life steal weapon and skip out on other weapon stats.
I don't agree with adding life steal to shoulders and/or gloves. That will simply give barbs yet another slot to add life steal on top of mighty belts. Same with dual-wielding classes that run two life steal options.
Belts would be a better option considering mighty belts already have life steal. Even BiS items like Witching Hour will still retain their value that way. Some people may then decide to skip vitality stats in favor of a life steal roll on them; or armor, or double roll, etc. I know I would. Heck, even rare belts could potentially see more value for those searching for survivability.
...Or perhaps change topaz effects on weapons and off-hands? Instead of thorns on weapons, it could be life steal. Instead of primary stats on off-hands (sources/mojos/quivers), it could add life steal.
Armory | YouTube | Twitter | Clan Site
Honestly, I like the idea posited at the end of this post. If they were to change the function of a topaz in weapon to life steal, and make sockets in mojos, sources and quivers act like weapon rather than armor sockets, they could allow players to make an intelligent choice on what they would like their item to do. Also, blue posters have toyed with a way to make shields more interesting... Perhaps modifying offhand sockets in general to always function as a weapon, it could make a shield a more exciting choice. One could choose to play with a shield, choose to socket it with life steal or life on hit, and adjust their playstyle accordingly. Players would be opting out of critical hit damage for critical hit chance, and opting out of more attacks for more defense. This seems an entirely reasonable course of thought.
My only reservation would be a then necessary revamp of amethysts in weapon to bring life on hit in line with a life steal gem, and then balancing them with a ruby and emerald. Currently, an emerald offers up to 110% of an available stat roll to a 1h weapon. To make the choices feel equivalent, a marquise amethyst would need to offer 1100 life on hit, an a marquise topaz would need to offer 3.3% life stolen. It is my opinion that critical hit damage is partially imbalanced, thusly emeralds, simply because it is plentiful and the player can get a lot of it fairly easily. If gem choices were at least equivalent in the way they offer a bonus to a player, the player may find more incentive to choose gems other than an emerald or ruby.
DiabloProgress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/mannequin-1116/Stitches/14628018
I'm confusing nothing. I understand that a ruby and an emerald are offensive, while a topaz and amethyst are defensive bonuses. However, wouldn't it be an exciting choice to be able to choose a defensive stat that has similar scaling to an offensive one? I know of nobody that plays this game on an elite level that chooses any defensive weapon socket, as the scaling is garbage and the offensive stats are shinier.
What is wrong with gaining 1000 average damage from an offhand? Cool, my weapon now hits harder, or I now recover health (to use the idea jaetch posited and I offered embellishments to). It still isn't tremendously imbalanced. Dual wielding grants 15% IAS, along with the stats on the second weapon... Along with the fact that you have another weapon that you are attacking with. Pretty cool DPS increases if you ask me. Why shouldn't an offhand offer me something similar to another weapon, but with its own flavor? Instead of another attack, and more chd, I get some more crit and something tuning up my damage. I will attack a lot less frequently, but hit harder with what I do.
Finally, why argue itemization? Weapons already clearly follow the "no socket is cheap and accessible, while socket is rare and sought out by high end players" mechanic. Why should offhands be different? One would be making the choice generally between getting vitality on their offhand, or an extra primary stat roll for a socket, and the extra variation it would bring. I don't know about you... But choosing an item based on the quality of a damage roll and whether or not it rolled a vitality stat isn't that exciting to me. Choosing between more of a core stat, or a socket for a combat stat, be it offensive or defensive, seems much more engaging. Sure, choosing a combat stat would be preferrential, but I'm sure some people would still choose a higher EHP option.
I said nothing about removing class specific affixes, simply either adding more to the pool (my first post) or allowing the gems to act like another weapon (second post). Having to make more choices makes the game exciting: Do I choose damage? Do I need more survival? Do I need resource regeneration? Do I need a larger resource pool? Every choice a player gets to make allows for more variation, more potential for new builds, more potential for something novel and exciting. I like the visceral feeling of making decisions that DIRECTLY affect my performance. Too many decisions are being made for casters at the moment, and allowing them a modicum of more customization would allow them the same game experience a barbarian, monk or dual hand crossbow DH enjoys. Class specific modifiers add flavor to items, but they should be a choice; carefully selected to enhance your playstyle. With item enhancements somewhere over the rainbow, you will see a majority of WD players using a ilevel 63 homunculus or 63 thing of the deep, and a majority of wizards only wanting a 63 triumvirate, even less variation than currently exists... And those choices will be made because of the bonuses those items offer players, some of which are very class specific.
Edit: I missed the point slightly with your post on class specific affixes. The only affix that randomly rolls on an offhand that is desirable is APOC, and certain builds require it, so that it wouldn't rot in the dust. Mana pool, AP pool and mana regen are generally fixed on certain offhands, and people choose those items with it base, rather than allowing it to waste a roll on an item it does not usually come on. You wouldn't be choosing socket over regen or APOC. You would be choosing socket over a stat roll, as vitality or intellect rolls are already preferrential to a class stat (other than that bloated APOC).
DiabloProgress: http://www.diabloprogress.com/hero/mannequin-1116/Stitches/14628018
And to the guy that didn't understand what I was saying about not understanding the rest of my post earlier, more damage with more life steal yields more life stolen per hit. Less damage with less life steal yields less life stolen per hit. Less damage with the same 6% life steal would yield far better health than the BS 3% on CKs now.
Having 6% on class specifics would eliminate other classes being able to stack MORE and making wizzes and WDs able to stack 6% (just like the rest of the classes)