I'd like to start out by saying how excited I am that after such a long wait D3 is getting closer everyday. I'm sure you can relate.
I must admit that there are a number of areas of concern to me. I'll preface this by saying that these are my views and opinions and mine alone. You may or may not agree with some of them. Get your own damn opinion! It is not my intention to foist upon you my point of view. I strongly urge you take a look at what D3 has to offer and form your own opinion.
After reading through what we know about D3 so far I've got to thinking what it was about D2 that keeps me playing year after year and some of those things have changed drastically in D3. While I realize that D3 is not D2 this is the same title and Blizzard will hope to copy the success of D2. I feel that too much deviation will ruin it's success in the long run.
I'll get these out of the way since they aren't a deal breaker for me and have been stated over and over again. The graphics. It's been said before... They're too bright and cartoony. I can live with it though. Achievements. I personally think they are lame and if I get no reward for obtaining an achievement, I can live without them. Moving on.
Open world PvP and battle arenas. I hate the idea that they've removed open world PvP. The biggest reason I ever pked people on D2 was because they were interferring or hindering my game progress by clearing areas me or my party were not to yet. If you acted like an asshat in my game, you were dealt with on the spot. Without the ability to pk a person they can remain in my game and do as they please, go ahead and wipe out areas of mobs, being rude, talking shit behind their keyboard, etc. Unless they implement a vote to kick option I see this as a very bad thing for me personally. I doubt I will spend much time in the battle arena as there is no reward and as it looks they are mainly focusing on team PvP. Now, depending on how this plays out will ultimately guide my decision whether I will play this game over and over again like D2. I NEED the ability to let someone know they've crossed a line with me. I'm not a dick but I offer respect and expect it in return. When that doesn't happen someone needs to die, like, RIGHT NOW! I just feel as though Blizzard didn't take into account people with my position or stop to think... What would make another player want to kill another player? They need to take into consideration pk wasn't always used to grief other players. Sometimes it was the solution to the griefing.
Loot drops being seen by individual party members. Call me crazy but I liked the scramble to grab loots in a multiplayer game. Sure I missed out on some awesome loots but so did 6 other people. You keep grinding and find it or build wealth to trade for it. If you happened to grab that loot you were fired up that you snagged it and had a nice item to trade or use. It just seems like a cry baby solution to the player drops. The biggest problem I find on D2 is players with Pickit. That shit is just unfair to all those that play legit. Fix that 1 thing about drops and I am 100% happy. Again this is something I can live with and is not a deal breaker for me.
Auto-stats are another point of contention with me. On D2 you were punished severely for not putting your stats into the right place or felt robbed when you found a 2nd item with better stats than the one you spent stats for. That's why they added tokens right? If you loused up you could redo it and not have to play another character up. On the other hand it's what allowed for various customization of builds or the difference between making an energy shield sorc or high/max block sorc. While they will have stats on items to allow customization I feel that this system is just too different and really I need to see how it plays out in game before I decide if I can live with it. I'm not pleased that my levels alone will determine what my stats are. Unless they changed it and you get a stat point each level to spend at your discretion. I didn't see that anywhere though. I see the talisman has a places for charms or something to that effect so I'll definitely be experimenting with that.
The crafting system seems a little foreign to Diablo 3, as far as how it's implemented. I loved the horadric cube and the various recipes for making things and upgrading things. I like the fact that there were no recipes to find to learn how to make something. You simply find the materials, put them in the cube, transmute*whump* and voila you either had a really cool item in your possession or you went back out into the world to find more materials. The biggest problem crafting had, in my opinion, was the need for mules to hold various items(runes, jewels, gems, gloves, amulets, armor or whatever you were crafting) In D3 it seems as though much is the same except the fact you need to find the recipes. You find items/materials and you give them to the artisan but then what? Will I have to wait for any length of time to see what my artisan has made? Will the items being crafted be random seals or set affixes? I suppose that will be dictated by the recipes. I don't like the idea of waiting to see what I have my artisan make. I want to know if I just got upgraded or if I need to go back to looking. The cube was magic! There was no wait time involved.
Pretty much everything else about the game seems to be an improvement to me. The semi-linear world with pockets of randomness sounds like it will work well. The crazy awesome amount of rune/skills possibilities. The various ways the monsters try to get to you and the need to intelligently battle them seems very interesting. I am really looking to get my hands on this game and I sincerely hope these things I've mentioned here are not as bad in game as they seem in my mind.
Ultimately what will determine if D3 is the "best game ever" as many hope it will be boils down to this. Will I replay it and replay it and replay for 10+ years? As I sit here looking at what we've got now, my answer is a tentative No. Much remains to be seen and certainly played by my own hands for me to take a solid stance but what I have seen thus far has me excited and concerned simultaneously. These are my opinions about what we know thus far and I ask that you please respect them and I will respect yours as well.
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The blind mind's eye replies with a sigh and a tear of contempt for those who see the world as it truly is.
I think I have a lot of the same concerns you do regarding D3. I'm super excited, to say the least, but there are some things that concern me that you mentioned above.
I feel a bit differently on 2 points though.
I enjoyed the loot system in d2 to some degree but I think individual loot drops is an improvement to the game. The problem isn't just that you had to scramble for loot, but that people may also work in teams. While I will likely play with friends anyway, I remember being the odd man out. I think ultimately this drove people to want to "farm" on their own to prevent loot hogs from taking their hard earned work. Really, i'd be happy either way but I think personal loot drops are an enhancement on the game.
The other is pvp. While I agree on your point that it was nice to "discipline" people if they got out of line, it also goes the other way where you'd have asshats coming into your game to grief you. I didn't enjoy playing with a couple of my friends and having some jackass bulldoze us with a couple of much higher level ice orbs because he has daddy issues.
The obvious solution to this was to create a private game, yes, but we also enjoyed finding new people to play with and that prevented it. I think it would be cool if there was a "Open Combat" game type in D3 where you could allow that to be turned on if you wanted.
Oh, and I think the crafting systems are a natural evolution of the genre and I think the way they implemented them fits with the spirit of D3 well. Just my opinion.
To your point about colorful.. All i have to say is go back to act 2 of D2 or even Act 1 or Act 5. Those were all pretty vibrant colors. It might've had dark lighting but it was never bland and uncolorful it was actually very colorful. Look at Act 4 that lava is fucking colorful, albeit that act is super monotonous it is still very colorful.
Open world PvP and battle arenas. I hate the idea that they've removed open world PvP. The biggest reason I ever pked people on D2 was because they were interferring or hindering my game progress by clearing areas me or my party were not to yet. If you acted like an asshat in my game, you were dealt with on the spot. Without the ability to pk a person they can remain in my game and do as they please, go ahead and wipe out areas of mobs, being rude, talking shit behind their keyboard, etc. Unless they implement a vote to kick option I see this as a very bad thing for me personally. I doubt I will spend much time in the battle arena as there is no reward and as it looks they are mainly focusing on team PvP. Now, depending on how this plays out will ultimately guide my decision whether I will play this game over and over again like D2. I NEED the ability to let someone know they've crossed a line with me. I'm not a dick but I offer respect and expect it in return. When that doesn't happen someone needs to die, like, RIGHT NOW! I just feel as though Blizzard didn't take into account people with my position or stop to think... What would make another player want to kill another player? They need to take into consideration pk wasn't always used to grief other players. Sometimes it was the solution to the griefing.
To start off with this is just not a good idea. There is an easy solution. Make a private game. No one is forcing you to play multiplayer, and multiplayer holds no extra benefits. And If someone is hurting your play style but your in a pubs match whisp the other person who isn't and create a private game with him,x or just make another pub. PK'ing was to no ones enjoyment unless you were the pker. Plus heres a fall through in your point. you want to advance through the game but if someones fucking you over all your doing here is spending time trying to pk them.x What does that accomplish? nothing literally. You act like it will make them leave and it might but it very well might not and then instead of advancing you are wasting your time pking someone else.
Loot drops being seen by individual party members.Call me crazy but I liked the scramble to grab loots in a multiplayer game.Sure I missed out on some awesome loots but so did 6 other people. You keepgrinding and find it or build wealth to trade for it. If you happened to grabthat loot you were fired up that you snagged it and had a nice item to trade oruse. It just seems like a cry baby solution to the player drops. The biggestproblem I find on D2 is players with Pickit. That shit is just unfair to allthose that play legit. Fix that 1 thing about drops and I am 100% happy. Againthis is something I can live with and is not a deal breaker for me.
Seeing as loot drops are an important part of the game, depriving someone from the drops for hours and hours isn't a very good way to gain players.They made drops the most important customizing feature of this game, so making people fight for that one drop you need for hours isn't going to help their ideas be put into effect. Second grinding is by no means a good game mechanic and if you think grinding is some skill statistic as in "oh i grinded x hours for y item" and you think you're badass for it then please leave now because grinding is just a nuance and is a terrible game mechanic a boring one at that and defeats the "fun" aspect of anygame.
Auto-stats are another point of contention with me.On D2 you were punished severely for not putting your stats into the rightplace or felt robbed when you found a 2nd item with better stats than the oneyou spent stats for. That's why they added tokens right? If you loused up youcould redo it and not have to play another character up. On the other hand it'swhat allowed for various customization of builds or the difference betweenmaking an energy shield sorc or high/max block sorc. While they will have statson items to allow customization I feel that this system is just too differentand really I need to see how it plays out in game before I decide if I can livewith it. I'm not pleased that my levels alone will determine what my stats are.Unless they changed it and you get a stat point each level to spend at yourdiscretion. I didn't see that anywhere though. I see the talisman has a placesfor charms or something to that effect so I'll definitely be experimenting withthat.
Auto-Stats I have to kind of agree with you. For me it helps but I know some people do like trying out different builds or some crazy ass shit. They should have done it like maplestory where you have the ability to up your stats as you please but there is also and Auto-Stat button that automatically distributes your stat points based on your class.
The crafting system seems a little foreign to Diablo3, as far as how it's implemented. I loved the horadric cube and the variousrecipes for making things and upgrading things. I like the fact that there wereno recipes to find to learn how to make something. You simply find thematerials, put them in the cube, transmute*whump* and voila you either had areally cool item in your possession or you went back out into the world to findmore materials. The biggest problem crafting had, in my opinion, was the needfor mules to hold various items(runes, jewels, gems, gloves, amulets, armor orwhatever you were crafting) In D3 it seems as though much is the same exceptthe fact you need to find the recipes. You find items/materials and you givethem to the artisan but then what? Will I have to wait for any length of timeto see what my artisan has made? Will the items being crafted be random sealsor set affixes? I suppose that will be dictated by the recipes. I don't likethe idea of waiting to see what I have my artisan make. I want to know if Ijust got upgraded or if I need to go back to looking. The cube was magic! Therewas no wait time involved.
The crafting system in Diablo 3 is perfect. It is like real life crafting. You salvage shitty items in a box then you gain small pieces of items and they stack so you don't waste 500 slots or need mules and if you have that much salvaged pieces then your stash is supposedly well more than enough. From these items you tell the guy i wan't this you give him the recipe he learns the item forever and learns new ones on his own by leveling then you give gold and salvaged items and he makes it over 2 minutes. So you go out hunt for 2 minutes and bam you have your item. Others will take longer like maybe 10 minutes. So i feel all in all this is a much better system than the horadric cube which didn't really do much for those that didn't know the recipes.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
All valid points. As far as the color goes, it is certainly something I can live with. Does it scream "Diablo" to me? No it doesn't come close. I understand where Blizzard made that decision to go the way they did but I don't wholly agree with it. It's hard to explain but Diablo had a certain feel for it. The graphics sucked ass but there was this dark feeling to all the environments. It felt like Evil. In the D3 videos we see darker dungeons but they just look artistic and fairytailish. That's about the best way I can describe it.
If the crafting takes time, between 2-10 minutes like you say. That isn't something I will like to do. I liked the instantaneous results of the cube. And the recipes for it weren't all that hard to find if you cared to look. Would it have been better to have them located somewhere in game? Of course, but it didn't stop me from putting in the effort to figure out what this little wonderous cube could do. And it was a wonderous thing.
I'd like to say 1 thing about what you said about PvP. If I have to relog or make a private game or whatever after having partially cleared an area is that not also hindering my progress? I don't like to play solo all the time and I like to meet new players and you can't do that in passworded games. I can't agree with Blizzard's stance on PvP being removed even though I have been griefed from it. Usually hardcore mode and tppk was where I got mad about it or disagreed about how it was implemented.
Aion, Rift, WoW all failed me in 1 respect. You can't pk when someone deserves it. If I was being rude or an ass to someone I would expect to be pked. Also I disagree that pk was only fun for the pker. When I'd join duel games to mf in and someone would hunt me down. That was a cool feeling even if I died. At least the person put the effort in to find me instead of camping the town gate as was the standard.
All this is really irrelavant. I am undoubtedly buying the game and rolling a wizard at launch. First and foremost I am finishing out the Diablo storyline. I just hope this game makes me want to keep coming back and rerolling characters like I did on D2. right now I am kind of skeptical that it will but I remain hopeful.
All valid points. As far as the color goes, it is certainly something I can live with. Does it scream "Diablo" to me? No it doesn't come close. I understand where Blizzard made that decision to go the way they did but I don't wholly agree with it. It's hard to explain but Diablo had a certain feel for it. The graphics sucked ass but there was this dark feeling to all the environments. It felt like Evil. In the D3 videos we see darker dungeons but they just look artistic and fairytailish. That's about the best way I can describe it.
I like this kind of thread. For me, it gives insight as to what others really took with them on D2. That's what I think is great about Blizzard games, they appeal so importantly to different aspects for different people. I personally hate PVP and that its removed from the open world is nice. I totally understand the need to get people out of the public game, but I'm sure there will be some system in place to take care of that.
The new loot system, I totally have to disagree with your preference. Someone mentioned this earlier, but with your own individual loot being a system, most solo players will probably go more multi. I farmed alone, because I didn't want to have to play the "stand around Baal for the last 2% and wait to click like crazy" game. Its easier to go multi - and now that I'm secure in my loot, I'll want to do it.
The graphics... This is something that I've not really paid attention to as I look/read about D3. To be honest, I'm so excited to play this game, that I clap like a kid at Christmas to see new content. After reading this post, I went back and watched some vids and I have to agree with the "fairytaleish" look to them. The statement that the OP made about D2's graphics being bad, but definitely feeling evil, is totally true in my book. Thus far, D3 doesn't feel that way to me. Sure, there's a ton of gore and wormy things that fall out of big blobs, but its got too much of the WoW feel and not a dark Diablo feel. And by dark, I don't mean the lighting. But then I watched a vid that had some monsters crawling up the side walls of a darker lit dungeon and that gave me the "evil Diablo" feel that I was wanting. So my hope is that between AI effects like this and the sounds, both music and effects, we can get that D2 feel back.
The artistic approach is as all art is, opinion. So I'll leave that as that.
Open word Pking, I see where you're coming from. I also had games where Pking people was both called for and helpful to everyone trying to accomplish the goal at hand. I feel there should be a game option when you make a game whether or not to allow Pking, this would pretty much solve the problem I think.
Individual loot, I agree with Blizzard on this one. Yes snatching some good loot was fun, but I feel it was more of a luck thing than it should have been.. Luck should be dropping the item, not grabbing it off the ground.
Auto stats again I agree with Blizzard. Yes there are the small amount of times where stating your char a crazy way would make for a fun time. On the other hand, there's the other 95% of the time where you'd have to stat your char around items to cut corners to the next items requirements and so on. This was in no way fun, nor viable.. Unless you knew exactly what items you wants in the end game you were sure to waste a good amount of stats meeting pre-reqs for gear.
I highly doubt any waiting period involved in crafting, if any at all, will effect game play as much as you seem to think it will. They seem to be moving away from a wait as of last Blizzcon anyway, which I'd like. Even if there was a small wait though I'd be neutral about it.
“We act as though comfort and luxury were the chief requirements of life, when all that we need to make us happy is something to be enthusiastic about.” - Albert Einstein
I have a similar opinion on these things - they seemed to have railroaded many aspects of the game (including pots and portals) while adding wow-type busywork (crafting) at the same time.
But we can't judge until we play it in its released form.
I have a similar opinion on these things - they seemed to have railroaded many aspects of the game (including pots and portals) while adding wow-type busywork (crafting) at the same time.
But we can't judge until we play it in its released form.
Well pots and portals are just a way to make the game easier, and they didn't want that at all. they want it to be a challange.x nothing impossible but at times you need to be stuck and say how do i approach this tactically. I love this approach.
To the color statement about it being "evil" and "fairytailish" I have this to say. It is much different from D2 and D1 maybe thats the reason but it is much more artsy. Personally i like the distinct style of the game it looks to me better. The only problem I have is when people say it was darker and more gothic. It still is, now it just doesn't have that super dark lighting.Look at The first cave you enter, It is really dark. But that is because everything out of your light radius is pitch black. Now look at the Diablo 3 dungeons. theres actual Light there are torches and fires and ambient lighting effects. That is the main difference between them. The lighting. I guarantee if you put those D2 lighting effects in D3 it would be the same besides the artsy feel.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
As someone else said, it seems more like you want a remastered Diablo 2 than a new game. I really like the idea of personal loot drops, it encourages playing together with friends, and strangers in hopes of meeting someone cool and having fun with them, without getting mad about them taking all the good items, which could ruin any potential friendship. So now you have the choice of looking for items you need on your own or in a group, instead of switching to just doing it on your own after the second time you watch someone else pick up the item you wanted.
There is one question i have though... if your playing with your friends and you cant see what drops for them, it might lead to endless questions during a game of hey i found this but don't really need it, do you need it? Although im pretty sure you wont be able to see what drops for other people, i wish there was a way. So my question is, will you to be able to see others drops (im pretty sure the answer is no, as it would be very hard to do that without creating alot of confusion about which items you could pickup)?
As for auto-stats, its my understanding that they did that because in D2, while you could try some crazy things with it, most people pretty much put the same amounts into each stat. So now when you level up, your character will improve in all stats, which makes a lot of sense to me. But what you will get to do, is pick traits every few levels, and i think this will make for much more fun and specialized builds. As the original poster said, "On the other hand it'swhat allowed for various customization of builds or the difference betweenmaking an energy shield sorc or high/max block sorc". I think that the new system of picking different traits and mixing them up, will allow for a much more interesting variety of specializations. So i think this is a vast improvement over picking stats, and makes much more sense to me. I feel that as your character level up, they should automatically have more HP, energy, stamina, strength ect. and that you get to choose how your character evolves in a way that i think will be much more fun than going yay i got 5 stat points *hits the strength plus button 5 times*.
I also really like the new crafting system, they fixed so many things that were a problem in D2. Such as having to fill up most of your inventory with charms. And also making it so you don't have to return to town every time your inventory fills up to sell stuff you don't want, because you can break the items down into something that you can use to make items you actually want!! I also really like the idea of the recipes, double excitement of finding a good one and then excitement of crafting it!, because otherwise they would have to make it so you could see every item you could make, and then you would just have to spend time grinding for shitty drops to break down until you had enough materials to craft what you wanted. I think that would be very lame.
Concerning the graphics... I think they did a wonderful job of making it look like Diablo 2 while improving everything. I really like the look of all the characters you can choose from in D3, in all the videos i watched, i felt like every character was a real person battling against the demons to save their world. And all of them are very unique, (whereas in D2 when i saw the assassin I felt like it was more like a different kind of amazon. In my mind it was always, bowazon, javazon, assasazon. I think they have done a great job in D3 of making me understand how these different people became who they are, its easy to relate, I really like it. So my opinion is, i really like the way they made the characters look, and the monsters as well. I feel like the Diablo monsters have always been slightly cartoony, while still being super dark and badass. This isnt Resident Evil!!
So in conclusion, I think they have done a great job improving everything that felt wrong about D2 and improving the things that felt right. I for one am still super excited about D3, non of the many negative or skeptical posts i have read has convinced me that it wont be awesome. Everything i learn about what they are doing on D3 makes me like it more and more. Dont let the fact that devolopment is taking so long get you down (although if beta doesnt start before the end of the summer i might put my fist through a wall, but ill still be excited damn it)! This game is going to be epic.
I find it hard for me to agree with op on pretty much everything. Maybe I'm a fanboy, but everything they have implemented in the new d3 looks great to me.
1st of all, the art direction. 10 years ago we played a dark, 'evil' game that everyone fell in love with. Now, we have a more 'vibrant' colorful version, that isn't as some say 'evil' enough. Seriously? When I go back and play d2, yes its dark, but the graphics we had then didn't allow for the detail we have now. They had limited choices in environment, so it was often made dark. Now, we have soft textures, rigid textures, soft and harsh lighting, 3d environments where monsters will be coming at you from both foreground, background, above and below you. For me, a game just being "dark" and gritty isn't what makes an eerie feeling, or 'evil' setting. To me, its a mix of environment, monsters, lighting, story, and music, and sound effects. So far, the videos we have been given don't have background music, a major factor and known trait of D2. We also don't have storyline, and in this case, the narration that will be playing over the game while you progress forward. I think this was a great idea, as it allows you to keep the pace moving, while giving you the story in a solid voice. And finally, I personally am happy that we will be able to see and enjoy the different environments, and differences in lighting between the acts, and how your mood and feeling will change going from the deserts of act II, into a creepy claustrophobic dungeon. If you really despise how vibrant the game can be at times and could care less to appreciate the detail thats put into this environment, turn your brightness down and voila, a dark game.
Pking: like said before, only fun for the pker. Yes it closes doors, but it also creates stronger community with better multiplayer games because now, you dont have to worry about it and everyone is on the same page.
Loot: Yes there was a adrenaline rush of running around scrambling to grab as much loot as you could before anyone else. Problem with this was, if you were the victor in the group and snatched up the best loot, you were also the dick. If you were the loser in the group and didn't get anything useful, then you hated the dick that got it all.
The new loot system eliminates all that, and allows you to enjoy the game without watching the boss hp bar getting ready to right click spam the floor underneath him. Everyone gets loot now, some useful, some not, but your option to trade and still enjoy the last 30 min you played will still be rewarded if you didn't have the fastest connection or playing the melee character.
Artisans and crafting: I think its an awesome idea as long as its not very limited. Yes it creates busy work, but what else were you doing in d2 after you completed hell? grinding, grinding and more grinding. At least the crafting serves a purpose, and its optional. Don't feel like crafting? don't, and just keep running through bosses. Get bored of killing bosses? craft some stuff. It allows for a break from one or the other.
There is too much text on this topic, so I only read the first post and answer in order.
-PvP: In other words, you promote Pking because it shields you from griefing that doesn't harm what you do, and are pure annoyances. Sure, we all love to bash someone's head because they piss you off, and I don't deny the beauty of that fact. However, that one should not be forced into PvP is a much more important part and is much more important to anti-griefing than pking itself.
The only thing I'm afraid of is one could not even make the choice to have world PvP, or heck, to simply duel at will out of the arena. That would be sad, indeed. Normal games with open PvP should be possible, and filters should let you choose with ease what sort of game you want. Thats the best of the both world we could get while compromising as little as possible.
Sadly, they don't seem willing or caring enough for that. As a wannabe developer myself, I can't believe anyone would leave out such important options.
-Loot: Your thrill at getting stuff faster than others is a pointless competitive thrill and a selfish one at that. There is nothing good that comes out of mashing click on items on the ground, and is unfair in every way. In no way is it a "cry baby" solution to have individual drops, heck I find that term insulting for what its worth. I apologize, but you can't possible ignore the lack of fairness in the system. Everyone participates in a fight and everyone should have their share. It shouldn't be so selfish that people entitle themselves to all the drops they can click.
-Auto-stats: I believe Traits are good replacement to this, because they have a much more significant impact on a bigger variety of things. And yes, traits replace stats in terms of customization, that is how I see it.
-Crafting: No in game recipes means nothing beyond "look at some website to see the list of recipes". There's very little logic in most recipes as well. So that part, I can't agree with: its stupid to make most recipes only obtainable by sheer luck, extreme patience, or a click on google.
I have no idea what you're talking about with "waiting time". A waiting time would be pretty stupid. One should get the item they "ordered" with the Artisan instantaneously. Beyond that, other than having to be in town, the concept has little differences with the cube.
I do think Diablo 3 could use some refinement in certain categories. I too am both hopeful and concerned.
I have no idea what you're talking about with "waiting time". A waiting time would be pretty stupid. One should get the item they "ordered" with the Artisan instantaneously. Beyond that, other than having to be in town, the concept has little differences with the cube.
I do think Diablo 3 could use some refinement in certain categories. I too am both hopeful and concerned.
I'm pretty sure at a blizzcon panel about the artisans they said you had to wait a little for some items like they are literally taking the time to craft it.
And to your point about D3 could use some refinement... hell every game could use some refinement.
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Not even Death will save you from Diablo Bunny's Cuteness!
I'm not the type of person to look at D2 and want it to be D3. So I literally have zero concerns with what they are doing. Change is good and it's exciting to be given the opportunity to play a new iteration of the Diablo franchise that is at it's core the same as the previous games but with many new systems to explore. Will we want to play it for 10+ years? You won't know the answer to that question until we start playing it. No point in worrying about something you can't control. Just play the game and if you enjoy it, you'll keep playing for years to come.
Just wanna say, your views on PKing and loot stealing are what I hated about Diablo 2, especially with autoloot programs. Id also much rather play with friends or start a new game to avoid an asshole, which are few and far between considering the people doing the acts you're talking about usually WERE the PKs and griefers, I'd rather just start a new game occasionally then have PKs potentially running rampant on low levels. Pumping your own stats just led to 85% vitality. Crafting system seems okay to me but we'll see.
Someone deleted my awesome constructive post, so I'll reiterate: QQ :whistling:
But I'll add that the old system of PvP was the result of someone saying "oops, we need PvP" and throwing in a quick crappy solution. If you want to physically fight off annoying people rather than simply not play with them, cool beans.
For everyone else (I don't pretend to speak for everyone but I SERIOUSLY doubt most people would disagree), we'd rather just not play with the jerk in the first place.
If you like the crappy old system so much, you can still play D2 :geek:
The main thing I don't like about D3 is the new PvP system. Not in the same sense as the OP.
Back in D2, open pvp was fun. Just joining a game when everyone is hostile, and going around killing people of all skills was hilarious. Granted, there were times lame hammerdins or far cast zons camped your body, but i'd just rejoin then put on sorb and then kill them, I was a bvc barb.
I do think the new PvP system will be good in competitiveness. Each fight will be challenging and fun. But what I fear is blizzard saying "We're also looking into other PvP game types that exist outside the ranking system, like 1-on-1 duels and mutually chosen team battles (for example, you and your friends could divide into two teams for an arena showdown). We'll have more information on the availability of these game types in the future.". here
To me, this shows that blizzard thinks PvP outside the ranking system should be limited to those with your friends. It seems to me they want to limit the chance of an uneven fight (like a custom melee game in SC2) and have someone pub stomp the other player. I also hope to see some FFA games, again, unranked but having the same feel as those pub dueling games in D2. Pub dueling games was the reason I played D2 for so long (aside from farming items and trading, and leveling characters)
But aside from this D3 seems to have alot of new improvements that promote teamwork (I do hope Hell difficulty will be truely hard, like. you would need a team of 4 hihg levels's with decent gear and teamwork to beat... THAT would be great), customizability (replayability), the essence of the beat-em-up genre (health orbs), etc.
World pvp is fun yeah. The thing you have to remember though is now it's 4 players per game and I know for sure there is 3v3 and most likely random 3v3 so it'll end up being better. We may even see a 4v4.
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I must admit that there are a number of areas of concern to me. I'll preface this by saying that these are my views and opinions and mine alone. You may or may not agree with some of them. Get your own damn opinion! It is not my intention to foist upon you my point of view. I strongly urge you take a look at what D3 has to offer and form your own opinion.
After reading through what we know about D3 so far I've got to thinking what it was about D2 that keeps me playing year after year and some of those things have changed drastically in D3. While I realize that D3 is not D2 this is the same title and Blizzard will hope to copy the success of D2. I feel that too much deviation will ruin it's success in the long run.
I'll get these out of the way since they aren't a deal breaker for me and have been stated over and over again. The graphics. It's been said before... They're too bright and cartoony. I can live with it though. Achievements. I personally think they are lame and if I get no reward for obtaining an achievement, I can live without them. Moving on.
Open world PvP and battle arenas. I hate the idea that they've removed open world PvP. The biggest reason I ever pked people on D2 was because they were interferring or hindering my game progress by clearing areas me or my party were not to yet. If you acted like an asshat in my game, you were dealt with on the spot. Without the ability to pk a person they can remain in my game and do as they please, go ahead and wipe out areas of mobs, being rude, talking shit behind their keyboard, etc. Unless they implement a vote to kick option I see this as a very bad thing for me personally. I doubt I will spend much time in the battle arena as there is no reward and as it looks they are mainly focusing on team PvP. Now, depending on how this plays out will ultimately guide my decision whether I will play this game over and over again like D2. I NEED the ability to let someone know they've crossed a line with me. I'm not a dick but I offer respect and expect it in return. When that doesn't happen someone needs to die, like, RIGHT NOW! I just feel as though Blizzard didn't take into account people with my position or stop to think... What would make another player want to kill another player? They need to take into consideration pk wasn't always used to grief other players. Sometimes it was the solution to the griefing.
Loot drops being seen by individual party members. Call me crazy but I liked the scramble to grab loots in a multiplayer game. Sure I missed out on some awesome loots but so did 6 other people. You keep grinding and find it or build wealth to trade for it. If you happened to grab that loot you were fired up that you snagged it and had a nice item to trade or use. It just seems like a cry baby solution to the player drops. The biggest problem I find on D2 is players with Pickit. That shit is just unfair to all those that play legit. Fix that 1 thing about drops and I am 100% happy. Again this is something I can live with and is not a deal breaker for me.
Auto-stats are another point of contention with me. On D2 you were punished severely for not putting your stats into the right place or felt robbed when you found a 2nd item with better stats than the one you spent stats for. That's why they added tokens right? If you loused up you could redo it and not have to play another character up. On the other hand it's what allowed for various customization of builds or the difference between making an energy shield sorc or high/max block sorc. While they will have stats on items to allow customization I feel that this system is just too different and really I need to see how it plays out in game before I decide if I can live with it. I'm not pleased that my levels alone will determine what my stats are. Unless they changed it and you get a stat point each level to spend at your discretion. I didn't see that anywhere though. I see the talisman has a places for charms or something to that effect so I'll definitely be experimenting with that.
The crafting system seems a little foreign to Diablo 3, as far as how it's implemented. I loved the horadric cube and the various recipes for making things and upgrading things. I like the fact that there were no recipes to find to learn how to make something. You simply find the materials, put them in the cube, transmute*whump* and voila you either had a really cool item in your possession or you went back out into the world to find more materials. The biggest problem crafting had, in my opinion, was the need for mules to hold various items(runes, jewels, gems, gloves, amulets, armor or whatever you were crafting) In D3 it seems as though much is the same except the fact you need to find the recipes. You find items/materials and you give them to the artisan but then what? Will I have to wait for any length of time to see what my artisan has made? Will the items being crafted be random seals or set affixes? I suppose that will be dictated by the recipes. I don't like the idea of waiting to see what I have my artisan make. I want to know if I just got upgraded or if I need to go back to looking. The cube was magic! There was no wait time involved.
Pretty much everything else about the game seems to be an improvement to me. The semi-linear world with pockets of randomness sounds like it will work well. The crazy awesome amount of rune/skills possibilities. The various ways the monsters try to get to you and the need to intelligently battle them seems very interesting. I am really looking to get my hands on this game and I sincerely hope these things I've mentioned here are not as bad in game as they seem in my mind.
Ultimately what will determine if D3 is the "best game ever" as many hope it will be boils down to this. Will I replay it and replay it and replay for 10+ years? As I sit here looking at what we've got now, my answer is a tentative No. Much remains to be seen and certainly played by my own hands for me to take a solid stance but what I have seen thus far has me excited and concerned simultaneously. These are my opinions about what we know thus far and I ask that you please respect them and I will respect yours as well.
I feel a bit differently on 2 points though.
I enjoyed the loot system in d2 to some degree but I think individual loot drops is an improvement to the game. The problem isn't just that you had to scramble for loot, but that people may also work in teams. While I will likely play with friends anyway, I remember being the odd man out. I think ultimately this drove people to want to "farm" on their own to prevent loot hogs from taking their hard earned work. Really, i'd be happy either way but I think personal loot drops are an enhancement on the game.
The other is pvp. While I agree on your point that it was nice to "discipline" people if they got out of line, it also goes the other way where you'd have asshats coming into your game to grief you. I didn't enjoy playing with a couple of my friends and having some jackass bulldoze us with a couple of much higher level ice orbs because he has daddy issues.
The obvious solution to this was to create a private game, yes, but we also enjoyed finding new people to play with and that prevented it. I think it would be cool if there was a "Open Combat" game type in D3 where you could allow that to be turned on if you wanted.
Oh, and I think the crafting systems are a natural evolution of the genre and I think the way they implemented them fits with the spirit of D3 well. Just my opinion.
To start off with this is just not a good idea. There is an easy solution. Make a private game. No one is forcing you to play multiplayer, and multiplayer holds no extra benefits. And If someone is hurting your play style but your in a pubs match whisp the other person who isn't and create a private game with him,x or just make another pub. PK'ing was to no ones enjoyment unless you were the pker. Plus heres a fall through in your point. you want to advance through the game but if someones fucking you over all your doing here is spending time trying to pk them.x What does that accomplish? nothing literally. You act like it will make them leave and it might but it very well might not and then instead of advancing you are wasting your time pking someone else.
Seeing as loot drops are an important part of the game, depriving someone from the drops for hours and hours isn't a very good way to gain players.They made drops the most important customizing feature of this game, so making people fight for that one drop you need for hours isn't going to help their ideas be put into effect. Second grinding is by no means a good game mechanic and if you think grinding is some skill statistic as in "oh i grinded x hours for y item" and you think you're badass for it then please leave now because grinding is just a nuance and is a terrible game mechanic a boring one at that and defeats the "fun" aspect of anygame.
Auto-Stats I have to kind of agree with you. For me it helps but I know some people do like trying out different builds or some crazy ass shit. They should have done it like maplestory where you have the ability to up your stats as you please but there is also and Auto-Stat button that automatically distributes your stat points based on your class.
The crafting system in Diablo 3 is perfect. It is like real life crafting. You salvage shitty items in a box then you gain small pieces of items and they stack so you don't waste 500 slots or need mules and if you have that much salvaged pieces then your stash is supposedly well more than enough. From these items you tell the guy i wan't this you give him the recipe he learns the item forever and learns new ones on his own by leveling then you give gold and salvaged items and he makes it over 2 minutes. So you go out hunt for 2 minutes and bam you have your item. Others will take longer like maybe 10 minutes. So i feel all in all this is a much better system than the horadric cube which didn't really do much for those that didn't know the recipes.
If the crafting takes time, between 2-10 minutes like you say. That isn't something I will like to do. I liked the instantaneous results of the cube. And the recipes for it weren't all that hard to find if you cared to look. Would it have been better to have them located somewhere in game? Of course, but it didn't stop me from putting in the effort to figure out what this little wonderous cube could do. And it was a wonderous thing.
I'd like to say 1 thing about what you said about PvP. If I have to relog or make a private game or whatever after having partially cleared an area is that not also hindering my progress? I don't like to play solo all the time and I like to meet new players and you can't do that in passworded games. I can't agree with Blizzard's stance on PvP being removed even though I have been griefed from it. Usually hardcore mode and tppk was where I got mad about it or disagreed about how it was implemented.
Aion, Rift, WoW all failed me in 1 respect. You can't pk when someone deserves it. If I was being rude or an ass to someone I would expect to be pked. Also I disagree that pk was only fun for the pker. When I'd join duel games to mf in and someone would hunt me down. That was a cool feeling even if I died. At least the person put the effort in to find me instead of camping the town gate as was the standard.
All this is really irrelavant. I am undoubtedly buying the game and rolling a wizard at launch. First and foremost I am finishing out the Diablo storyline. I just hope this game makes me want to keep coming back and rerolling characters like I did on D2. right now I am kind of skeptical that it will but I remain hopeful.
Workin on your post count?
I like this kind of thread. For me, it gives insight as to what others really took with them on D2. That's what I think is great about Blizzard games, they appeal so importantly to different aspects for different people. I personally hate PVP and that its removed from the open world is nice. I totally understand the need to get people out of the public game, but I'm sure there will be some system in place to take care of that.
The new loot system, I totally have to disagree with your preference. Someone mentioned this earlier, but with your own individual loot being a system, most solo players will probably go more multi. I farmed alone, because I didn't want to have to play the "stand around Baal for the last 2% and wait to click like crazy" game. Its easier to go multi - and now that I'm secure in my loot, I'll want to do it.
The graphics... This is something that I've not really paid attention to as I look/read about D3. To be honest, I'm so excited to play this game, that I clap like a kid at Christmas to see new content. After reading this post, I went back and watched some vids and I have to agree with the "fairytaleish" look to them. The statement that the OP made about D2's graphics being bad, but definitely feeling evil, is totally true in my book. Thus far, D3 doesn't feel that way to me. Sure, there's a ton of gore and wormy things that fall out of big blobs, but its got too much of the WoW feel and not a dark Diablo feel. And by dark, I don't mean the lighting. But then I watched a vid that had some monsters crawling up the side walls of a darker lit dungeon and that gave me the "evil Diablo" feel that I was wanting. So my hope is that between AI effects like this and the sounds, both music and effects, we can get that D2 feel back.
Thoughts?
Monkalicious: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/OptimusPrime-12194/hero/79139477
Open word Pking, I see where you're coming from. I also had games where Pking people was both called for and helpful to everyone trying to accomplish the goal at hand. I feel there should be a game option when you make a game whether or not to allow Pking, this would pretty much solve the problem I think.
Individual loot, I agree with Blizzard on this one. Yes snatching some good loot was fun, but I feel it was more of a luck thing than it should have been.. Luck should be dropping the item, not grabbing it off the ground.
Auto stats again I agree with Blizzard. Yes there are the small amount of times where stating your char a crazy way would make for a fun time. On the other hand, there's the other 95% of the time where you'd have to stat your char around items to cut corners to the next items requirements and so on. This was in no way fun, nor viable.. Unless you knew exactly what items you wants in the end game you were sure to waste a good amount of stats meeting pre-reqs for gear.
I highly doubt any waiting period involved in crafting, if any at all, will effect game play as much as you seem to think it will. They seem to be moving away from a wait as of last Blizzcon anyway, which I'd like. Even if there was a small wait though I'd be neutral about it.
But we can't judge until we play it in its released form.
Well pots and portals are just a way to make the game easier, and they didn't want that at all. they want it to be a challange.x nothing impossible but at times you need to be stuck and say how do i approach this tactically. I love this approach.
To the color statement about it being "evil" and "fairytailish" I have this to say. It is much different from D2 and D1 maybe thats the reason but it is much more artsy. Personally i like the distinct style of the game it looks to me better. The only problem I have is when people say it was darker and more gothic. It still is, now it just doesn't have that super dark lighting.Look at The first cave you enter, It is really dark. But that is because everything out of your light radius is pitch black. Now look at the Diablo 3 dungeons. theres actual Light there are torches and fires and ambient lighting effects. That is the main difference between them. The lighting. I guarantee if you put those D2 lighting effects in D3 it would be the same besides the artsy feel.
There is one question i have though... if your playing with your friends and you cant see what drops for them, it might lead to endless questions during a game of hey i found this but don't really need it, do you need it? Although im pretty sure you wont be able to see what drops for other people, i wish there was a way. So my question is, will you to be able to see others drops (im pretty sure the answer is no, as it would be very hard to do that without creating alot of confusion about which items you could pickup)?
As for auto-stats, its my understanding that they did that because in D2, while you could try some crazy things with it, most people pretty much put the same amounts into each stat. So now when you level up, your character will improve in all stats, which makes a lot of sense to me. But what you will get to do, is pick traits every few levels, and i think this will make for much more fun and specialized builds. As the original poster said, "On the other hand it'swhat allowed for various customization of builds or the difference betweenmaking an energy shield sorc or high/max block sorc". I think that the new system of picking different traits and mixing them up, will allow for a much more interesting variety of specializations. So i think this is a vast improvement over picking stats, and makes much more sense to me. I feel that as your character level up, they should automatically have more HP, energy, stamina, strength ect. and that you get to choose how your character evolves in a way that i think will be much more fun than going yay i got 5 stat points *hits the strength plus button 5 times*.
I also really like the new crafting system, they fixed so many things that were a problem in D2. Such as having to fill up most of your inventory with charms. And also making it so you don't have to return to town every time your inventory fills up to sell stuff you don't want, because you can break the items down into something that you can use to make items you actually want!! I also really like the idea of the recipes, double excitement of finding a good one and then excitement of crafting it!, because otherwise they would have to make it so you could see every item you could make, and then you would just have to spend time grinding for shitty drops to break down until you had enough materials to craft what you wanted. I think that would be very lame.
Concerning the graphics... I think they did a wonderful job of making it look like Diablo 2 while improving everything. I really like the look of all the characters you can choose from in D3, in all the videos i watched, i felt like every character was a real person battling against the demons to save their world. And all of them are very unique, (whereas in D2 when i saw the assassin I felt like it was more like a different kind of amazon. In my mind it was always, bowazon, javazon, assasazon. I think they have done a great job in D3 of making me understand how these different people became who they are, its easy to relate, I really like it. So my opinion is, i really like the way they made the characters look, and the monsters as well. I feel like the Diablo monsters have always been slightly cartoony, while still being super dark and badass. This isnt Resident Evil!!
So in conclusion, I think they have done a great job improving everything that felt wrong about D2 and improving the things that felt right. I for one am still super excited about D3, non of the many negative or skeptical posts i have read has convinced me that it wont be awesome. Everything i learn about what they are doing on D3 makes me like it more and more. Dont let the fact that devolopment is taking so long get you down (although if beta doesnt start before the end of the summer i might put my fist through a wall, but ill still be excited damn it)! This game is going to be epic.
1st of all, the art direction. 10 years ago we played a dark, 'evil' game that everyone fell in love with. Now, we have a more 'vibrant' colorful version, that isn't as some say 'evil' enough. Seriously? When I go back and play d2, yes its dark, but the graphics we had then didn't allow for the detail we have now. They had limited choices in environment, so it was often made dark. Now, we have soft textures, rigid textures, soft and harsh lighting, 3d environments where monsters will be coming at you from both foreground, background, above and below you. For me, a game just being "dark" and gritty isn't what makes an eerie feeling, or 'evil' setting. To me, its a mix of environment, monsters, lighting, story, and music, and sound effects. So far, the videos we have been given don't have background music, a major factor and known trait of D2. We also don't have storyline, and in this case, the narration that will be playing over the game while you progress forward. I think this was a great idea, as it allows you to keep the pace moving, while giving you the story in a solid voice. And finally, I personally am happy that we will be able to see and enjoy the different environments, and differences in lighting between the acts, and how your mood and feeling will change going from the deserts of act II, into a creepy claustrophobic dungeon. If you really despise how vibrant the game can be at times and could care less to appreciate the detail thats put into this environment, turn your brightness down and voila, a dark game.
Pking: like said before, only fun for the pker. Yes it closes doors, but it also creates stronger community with better multiplayer games because now, you dont have to worry about it and everyone is on the same page.
Loot: Yes there was a adrenaline rush of running around scrambling to grab as much loot as you could before anyone else. Problem with this was, if you were the victor in the group and snatched up the best loot, you were also the dick. If you were the loser in the group and didn't get anything useful, then you hated the dick that got it all.
The new loot system eliminates all that, and allows you to enjoy the game without watching the boss hp bar getting ready to right click spam the floor underneath him. Everyone gets loot now, some useful, some not, but your option to trade and still enjoy the last 30 min you played will still be rewarded if you didn't have the fastest connection or playing the melee character.
Artisans and crafting: I think its an awesome idea as long as its not very limited. Yes it creates busy work, but what else were you doing in d2 after you completed hell? grinding, grinding and more grinding. At least the crafting serves a purpose, and its optional. Don't feel like crafting? don't, and just keep running through bosses. Get bored of killing bosses? craft some stuff. It allows for a break from one or the other.
I bet they'll somehow manage to keep the evil touch of Diablo 2, we'll see!
-PvP: In other words, you promote Pking because it shields you from griefing that doesn't harm what you do, and are pure annoyances. Sure, we all love to bash someone's head because they piss you off, and I don't deny the beauty of that fact. However, that one should not be forced into PvP is a much more important part and is much more important to anti-griefing than pking itself.
The only thing I'm afraid of is one could not even make the choice to have world PvP, or heck, to simply duel at will out of the arena. That would be sad, indeed. Normal games with open PvP should be possible, and filters should let you choose with ease what sort of game you want. Thats the best of the both world we could get while compromising as little as possible.
Sadly, they don't seem willing or caring enough for that. As a wannabe developer myself, I can't believe anyone would leave out such important options.
-Loot: Your thrill at getting stuff faster than others is a pointless competitive thrill and a selfish one at that. There is nothing good that comes out of mashing click on items on the ground, and is unfair in every way. In no way is it a "cry baby" solution to have individual drops, heck I find that term insulting for what its worth. I apologize, but you can't possible ignore the lack of fairness in the system. Everyone participates in a fight and everyone should have their share. It shouldn't be so selfish that people entitle themselves to all the drops they can click.
-Auto-stats: I believe Traits are good replacement to this, because they have a much more significant impact on a bigger variety of things. And yes, traits replace stats in terms of customization, that is how I see it.
-Crafting: No in game recipes means nothing beyond "look at some website to see the list of recipes". There's very little logic in most recipes as well. So that part, I can't agree with: its stupid to make most recipes only obtainable by sheer luck, extreme patience, or a click on google.
I have no idea what you're talking about with "waiting time". A waiting time would be pretty stupid. One should get the item they "ordered" with the Artisan instantaneously. Beyond that, other than having to be in town, the concept has little differences with the cube.
I do think Diablo 3 could use some refinement in certain categories. I too am both hopeful and concerned.
I'm pretty sure at a blizzcon panel about the artisans they said you had to wait a little for some items like they are literally taking the time to craft it.
And to your point about D3 could use some refinement... hell every game could use some refinement.
But I'll add that the old system of PvP was the result of someone saying "oops, we need PvP" and throwing in a quick crappy solution. If you want to physically fight off annoying people rather than simply not play with them, cool beans.
For everyone else (I don't pretend to speak for everyone but I SERIOUSLY doubt most people would disagree), we'd rather just not play with the jerk in the first place.
If you like the crappy old system so much, you can still play D2 :geek:
Back in D2, open pvp was fun. Just joining a game when everyone is hostile, and going around killing people of all skills was hilarious. Granted, there were times lame hammerdins or far cast zons camped your body, but i'd just rejoin then put on sorb and then kill them, I was a bvc barb.
I do think the new PvP system will be good in competitiveness. Each fight will be challenging and fun. But what I fear is blizzard saying "We're also looking into other PvP game types that exist outside the ranking system, like 1-on-1 duels and mutually chosen team battles (for example, you and your friends could divide into two teams for an arena showdown). We'll have more information on the availability of these game types in the future.". here
To me, this shows that blizzard thinks PvP outside the ranking system should be limited to those with your friends. It seems to me they want to limit the chance of an uneven fight (like a custom melee game in SC2) and have someone pub stomp the other player. I also hope to see some FFA games, again, unranked but having the same feel as those pub dueling games in D2. Pub dueling games was the reason I played D2 for so long (aside from farming items and trading, and leveling characters)
But aside from this D3 seems to have alot of new improvements that promote teamwork (I do hope Hell difficulty will be truely hard, like. you would need a team of 4 hihg levels's with decent gear and teamwork to beat... THAT would be great), customizability (replayability), the essence of the beat-em-up genre (health orbs), etc.