Well, they could make three factions of humans, or two or whatever.
Horadrim - Led by Tyrael fighting for the high heavens
Zakarum - Led by some twisted evil fighting for the burning hells (some ppl are evil )
Free Nephalem - Fighting for their right to live withour angelic or demon influence
Or something similiar. Do remember that blizzard could choose to go back in history aswell as forward.
I forsee this scenario as the most likely one if they really decide to push a Diablo MMO.
A game where you asume the role of a character is a RPG.
That definition is incorrect, you assume the role of a character in many games that are not referred to as RPG, such as FPS, quests,. If you want to know what an RPG game really is, I suggest you throw the whole "role play" thing out of your head because that's archaic. RPG is a genre for a specific game structure. The structure that nobody seems to be able to define right now. As far as I am concerned, genres were created to categorize different games so that their names help the person predict what the game is like. Putting Diablo and Baldur's Gate into the same genre is not helpful at all.
By that logic, if you do want to call Diablo an RPG so badly, RPG should be a general term, with sub-terms such as extended RPG, action RPG, and point-and-click RPG.
The "classic" RPG is actually defined, with specific elements and the extent to which they should be met, but if people somehow manage to put such a limited game as Diabo into the RPG genre, I guess people can't see the difference between something like BG and Alien Shooter. I guess it's Oblivion's fault.
Customization, control of story, dialogues, choice. Does Diablo have any of these things? Hardly. No, leveling and item collection is not enough. Item collection is not an RPG element to begin with. See heXen II, you can level and collect items in there, and 4 classes to choose from.
P.S.: If you want to define very game in existence as an "RPG", go ahead. But that's a completely useless definition, then. Genres were not invented for that purpose.
I'd hate to see demons and angels as playable races/classes/whatever.
You'd see almost no humans, everyone would be a angel or demon, and to me that's not Sanctuary or Diablo. It's about Humans rising up and protecting themselves.
But wait, i can assume the role of a character slaying hordes of monsters and also the role of a character slaying hordes of monsters, but i can also assume the role of a character slaying hordes of monsters, not only that but i can also assume the role of a character slaying hordes of monsters, also my choices to, um, slay hordes of monsters (or not, because you know you can choose to not play the game or something) affect the direction and shape of the game (it doesn't, but whatever) and also the outcome of the game, namely whether i finish said game or something. YAY, RPGs for everyone!
(On-topic btw, seeing that it directly relates to general ignorance stated in the OP)
You are misinterpreting the definition that he gave you. You are assuming the roll of a fictional character; the one who saves Sanctuary from annihilation by the Prime Evils. Just because there is a limited amount of things you can interact with does not make it any less of a RPG game. The variety of actions that you can do has no bearing on the definition of a RPG - atleast that I can see - which makes your response inadequate to disproving that Diablo is not a RPG.
The "formal system" that the game follows are essentially the monsters' stats, which govern the success - or failure - of the player. The way that you characterize - or improvise - your character's stats and skills (also known as actions) will then be matched up with the "formal system" to result in either success or failure, which is exactly what the definition describes.
The game tells a story by allowing you, the player, to assume the role of one of the main characters to progress the story. This is the absolute essence of any RPG that I've ever played. I get the feeling that you only consider tabletop games and games that give you choices for dialogue to be true RPG's; that is simply not true. No question that D&D and other tabletop RPG's can be much deeper than computer games because the human imagination is much more vast than any computer program.
Honestly if we go by that definition, Chrono Trigger, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy, The Zelda series, those all aren't RPGs. Which conforming to current definitions or not, saying those aren't RPG's are just silly. Final Fantasy is probably one of the best known RPG series.
Customization, control of story, dialogues, choice. Does Diablo have any of these things? Hardly. No, leveling and item collection is not enough. Item collection is not an RPG element to begin with. See heXen II, you can level and collect items in there, and 4 classes to choose from.
Seriously? Diablo has none of these? First of all, listing customization and choice is kind of redundant. Furthermore, I don't see any evidence that validates that there is "hardly" and customization; the game gives you numerous possibilities to choose from every level.
No control of story? Your choices - whether they're skill point allocation or positioning of your character - directly affect the outcome of the story in the most direct way in that if you can't beat a certain level then you cannot advance the story.
Dialogue, assuming your specifically talking about your character's dialogue, is obviously not in the game, but Diablo 3 will be changing that as well.
No control of story? Your choices - whether they're skill point allocation or positioning of your character - directly affect the outcome of the story in the most direct way in that if you can't beat a certain level then you cannot advance the story.
Whether you advance in the story or not is not a valid arguement for saying you have an effect on the storyline.
What he means is that you would be given a fork in the path to choose. You make one choice, the story progresses one way. If you chose the other way, a whole different story developes. Rememeber the old Goosebumps books? Where they said "If you want to go down the tunnel, turn to page 154" or "If you want to run like a bitch, turn to page 178". Like that.
It's not like "If you want to continue in the story, turn the page" "If you don't want to continue the story, close the book"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
I'd hate to see demons and angels as playable races/classes/whatever.
You'd see almost no humans, everyone would be a angel or demon, and to me that's not Sanctuary or Diablo. It's about Humans rising up and protecting themselves.
If it were the case that we could only play as humans, I would hope that we would have an equal opportunity to fight both demons and angels in PvE.
Quote from name="Vae Victis" »
Whether you advance in the story or not is not a valid arguement for saying you have an effect on the storyline.
What he means is that you would be given a fork in the path to choose. You make one choice, the story progresses one way. If you chose the other way, a whole different story developes. Rememeber the old Goosebumps books? Where they said "If you want to go down the tunnel, turn to page 154" or "If you want to run like a bitch, turn to page 178". Like that.
It's not like "If you want to continue in the story, turn the page" "If you don't want to continue the story, close the book"
So RPG's are required to have multiple endings? Ok, someone needs to enlighten me what the real definition of an RPG is because apparrently all the Final Fantasy games I've played and the 3 years that I played WoW don't count.:rolleyes:
There is no "real" definition of an RPG as per games right now because the term is too nebulous. I'd have to agree with Equinox on her last point: If anything, you have RPG and then branches of it to various types of RPG's:
I just made that in like a minute. Some notes:
CRPG can stand for either Console RPG or Computer RPG.
There's obviously a big difference between Console RPG's and Computer RPG's regarding basic mechanics that distincty chance what kind of RPG it is, so they technically each deserve their own branch.
WRPG is Western RPG, sometimes applicable to Computer RPG's (often used in the East)
TBRPG is Text-Based RPG, like your console window ones with the black background and typical IOSTREAM interaction.
There's obviously a lot to add and defining to do- like I said, I did it in like a minute.
So, by this logic, all games under the RPG tier for CRPG's (both computer and console) are types of RPG's and are therefore RPG's (like we're animals with a specific kingdom/phylum/class/order/family/genis/species, but we're still animals).
So, by this logic, all games under the RPG tier for CRPG's (both computer and console) are types of RPG's and are therefore RPG's (like we're animals with a specific kingdom/phylum/class/order/family/genis/species, but we're still animals).
And that's exactly what I'm getting at. It may not do everything that an RPG of a different type can, (i.e Tabletop RPG) but it is still an RPG.
If it were the case that we could only play as humans, I would hope that we would have an equal opportunity to fight both demons and angels in PvE.
Well for now angels haven't interfered too much, but D3 may change that. So yeah I say anyone angel or demon that wants to make Sanctuary a pawn or cause harm should be slain.
Sigh, i'm really getting tired of this shit, you know. "Diablo is an RPG because you assume the role of a character which is one of the primery definitions of a RPG", or to use an analogy "a cat is a plane because a plane has a tail and a cat does to". Do you understand this logical fallacy? You pretty much assume the role of a character in any game, therefor every game can be classified as an RPG? NO.
This isn't my only defense that Diablo is an RPG. I am well aware that you can call any game an RPG because by their very nature you are always assuming the roll of someone else. I was attempting to break down the definition that was given to you in response to your other posts.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
The game doesn't attempt at giving you more things to interact with, let alone giving you things to interact with which support a broad amount of characters and their characterization. The game doesn't attempt at being non-linear. Not because it FAILS at being an RPG, but because the damn game isn't even an RPG to begin with and it was also never meant to be one, its simply not what the game is about. Seriously, i can get why the definition of RPG isn't synonym with "quality product" or "tons upon tons of meaningful C&C", i can get why people try to call Oblivion an RPG, albeit a terribly bland and stupidly dumb one, but implying that Diablo is an RPG is just downright insulting to not only what RPG's are about, but also insulting the capacity of Blizzard making games. Or do you really want to imply Blizzard simply made one of the worst RPG's in history by not giving the player virtually any meaningful interaction and a variety of actions based on roleplaying characters? Because then i might as well tell you Rockstar sucks at making games, seriously, GTA was the worst racing game in history.
Where does it say that an RPG has to be non-linear? If it's just your opinion that it has to be then that's fine but your tone suggests that you have factual evidence that because Diablo is not linear then it's not a RPG.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
You can't be serious. "Participant determine the action of their characters based on their characterization". Are you telling me the extend of Blizzards characterization of which the failure or success of actions are based upon is completely and utterly limited to a hero saving Sanctuary by slaying hordes of monsters? SERIOUSLY? This is like the discussion revolving around how Oblivion isn't non-linear "because you can go everywhere, to the left, and to the right, and backwards, and forwards, and hey, you can even choose to do a quest now, or later...", thats not what "non-linear" means, what you are telling me is not what "failure or success of actions based on characterization" means. There is only one characterization in Diablo, namely that of a hero, you can't play a neutral party, let alone the anti-hero, you don't even have any say in HOW you are a hero, nope, you ARE a hero by slaying monsters, whether or not you want to, THE END. Do i slay them with a sword or an axe, ultimately it doesn't matter, your choice in the matter won't suddenly change the direction, much less outcome of the game, you won't get alternative choices upon failing to slay monsters, the game won't give you the option to "not slay them, if thats the characters you wish to play". The game obviously is not even meant to be an RPG, why won't people get that, jeez...
I'm showing you how the gameplay of Diablo fits the description of the definition that was posted. I Obviously can't convince you that Diablo is dynamic enough to be an RPG, but I did technically fulfill the requirements that the definition says there must be. I never said it was very sophisticated customization, but it is customization nevertheless. I'm not sure where that definition was obtained but it looks like you should take it up with them because clearly it's your opinion that they are selling a "true" RPG game very, very short.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
Yes, and i can also assume the role of NEO (or at least pretend to, thats close enough, right) and press the PLAY button to progress the story of the MATRIX, obviously its an RPG.
I assume you're being facetious? You're watching someone else role play which doesn't make you role playing as well.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
I don't even play tabletop games, or pen and paper games, and no i don't need a million choices in dialogue before i can regard a game to be an RPG, but fucking hell, if i expect to play an RPG then at least give me a FEW archetypically different characters to play around with in a world which acts and reacts upon your chosen character, else, whats even the fucking point in playing an RPG? I call Planescape Torment an RPG, i call Fallout an RPG, i call Arcanum an RPG, i call Deus Ex an RPG, i call Vampire an RPG, i even call Bioware's games RPG's, and i even barely call TES an RPG. FF is NOT an RPG, Zelda is NOT an RPG, WoW is NOT an RPG, GTA is NOT an RPG, Diablo is NOT an RPG. How fucking hard can it be?
Again, do you have some sort of source that makes these claims factual? I'm making comparisons to a definition and you're just getting louder. You're yelling and swearing like it's obvious that Diablo isn't an RPG, but if you're just going to use your definition of RPG then this debate isn't going to progress any further.
Quote from "Doppelganger" »
THIS IS NOT A CHOICE.
I'm not going to argue this because frankly it wasn't one of my better points nor was it the backbone of my argument. However, having to be aware of your surroundings within the game is an immersive property. That goes beyond the numbers which, according to you, must exist to be an RPG.
To Hyperversity
Go buy Baldur's Gate II, please. Maybe you'll see the huge abyss between what BG offers and Diablo offers in terms of RPG elements and you'll agree, as well, that they cannot be mixed into the same genre. If you've never played anything like BG I can't really sit here and convince you, it's not going to get anywhere.
To Daemaro
I don't know what you're talking about. FF and Zelda are certainly RPG's. The generally meet my criteria just fine. Both have dialogues, they have open worlds, etc. Maybe not classic but still RPG's. Diablo is just so far away it's a whole other matter entirely.
To Hyperversity
Go buy Baldur's Gate II, please. Maybe you'll see the huge abyss between what BG offers and Diablo offers in terms of RPG elements and you'll agree, as well, that they cannot be mixed into the same genre. If you've never played anything like BG I can't really sit here and convince you, it's not going to get anywhere.
To Daemaro
I don't know what you're talking about. FF and Zelda are certainly RPG's. The generally meet my criteria just fine. Both have dialogues, they have open worlds, etc. Maybe not classic but still RPG's. Diablo is just so far away it's a whole other matter entirely.
To Hyperversity
Go buy Baldur's Gate II, please. Maybe you'll see the huge abyss between what BG offers and Diablo offers in terms of RPG elements and you'll agree, as well, that they cannot be mixed into the same genre. If you've never played anything like BG I can't really sit here and convince you, it's not going to get anywhere.
To Daemaro
I don't know what you're talking about. FF and Zelda are certainly RPG's. The generally meet my criteria just fine. Both have dialogues, they have open worlds, etc. Maybe not classic but still RPG's. Diablo is just so far away it's a whole other matter entirely.
To Vae Victis
Thanks.
So Diablo doesn't have a single RPG element in it? I just can't agree with that. Every part of what your character can do is represented by a finite number that you can calculate. I wouldn't call Halo an RPG because there is nothing numerical that represents your success or failure; either your real life reflexes and accuracy are good enough to beat the game or they're not. Now I'm not claiming that having your character represented by statistics is the be-all-end-all element of an RPG, that would be foolish, but is it not an element that appears in many if not all non text-based RPG's? I never said that Diablo was the epitome of RPG's but it has, atleast, some properties of them.
I'll quote Wiki again, "A genre of video game is also referred to as role-playing games. Although these games do not involve the playing of roles,[1] they take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games." So unless one can prove that Diablo's game mechanics were not influenced in any way by past RPG's, then it atleast fits this definition of RPG quite nicely.
I don't understand why you're asking me to compare Diablo to other games because it doesn't seem relevant. All I said is that Diablo technically met the requirements of the definition that was given and any definition I have seen on the subject thus far. Bottom line, there are fundamental elements from the RPG genre that are used in Diablo and therefore make it - perhaps only partially - an RPG game. I'm not 100% French so does that mean I'm not French at all?
Thats a terrible analogy, one of the defining elements of RPG's is that its a game, therefor every game is partially an RPG? I'm sorry but you're way off.
Can you please quote where I said that? You must be mistaken.
Trying to guess which part of what I said made you think that, the "defining element" that I was refering to was not the "G" in RPG but that the mechanical system in which many RPG's (D&D, Baldur's Gate etc...) use is also used in Diablo. Perhaps it's a variation of the original system, but the main concept is still intact; the character's various attributes being valued in numbers.
In D&D, I can't just say that my character is really, really strong in his/her character description and expect that the GM will allow me to lift a boulder over my head that weighs 2,000 pounds. I have to have a number assosiated with my strength so that my strength has some point of reference that tells me what I (my character) can and can't lift. Diablo (the game) doesn't say, "ok, the first one to make contact with the sword wins." It goes by the values of my attributes - variables based on previous choices that I have made - and determines my success or failure. Can we really not agree that this is an established RPG mechanic?
Good lord, how could we all have been so blind? This game is obviously not an RPG. I mean, it's anything but an RPG and there's no way Blizzard intended it to be an RPG.
Oh wait ...
Quote from Diablo 2 Awards »
Computer Game of the Year - Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences
Game of the Year - Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences
Game of the Year - PC Dome Magazine
Best PC Game of the Year -- 2000 European Computer Trade Show Awards
Roleplaying Game of the Year - Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences
Roleplaying Game of the Year - PC Dome Magazine
Excellence in Audio (Matt Uelmen, Jason Hayes, Glenn Stafford & Andrea Pessino) - Game Developers Choice Awards
Editors' Choice Award - Computer Gaming World
Editor's Choice/Game of the Month - PC Gamer
Editor's Choice Awards - GamePro
Best Network Game of the Year Award -- Play Online Magazine
There must be some sort of mistake. They allowed their game to receive two awards for the wrong genre? What shenanigans is this!? Next thing you know, EA Sports is going to get an award for "Best Action Game" for Madden 2010. So strange.
Demons and Humans that fight for evil
Angels and Humans that fight for good
OR
Three Factions:
Demons fighting for Hell
Angels fighting for Heaven
Humans fighting for Sanctuary
I forsee this scenario as the most likely one if they really decide to push a Diablo MMO.
By that logic, if you do want to call Diablo an RPG so badly, RPG should be a general term, with sub-terms such as extended RPG, action RPG, and point-and-click RPG.
The "classic" RPG is actually defined, with specific elements and the extent to which they should be met, but if people somehow manage to put such a limited game as Diabo into the RPG genre, I guess people can't see the difference between something like BG and Alien Shooter. I guess it's Oblivion's fault.
Customization, control of story, dialogues, choice. Does Diablo have any of these things? Hardly. No, leveling and item collection is not enough. Item collection is not an RPG element to begin with. See heXen II, you can level and collect items in there, and 4 classes to choose from.
P.S.: If you want to define very game in existence as an "RPG", go ahead. But that's a completely useless definition, then. Genres were not invented for that purpose.
You'd see almost no humans, everyone would be a angel or demon, and to me that's not Sanctuary or Diablo. It's about Humans rising up and protecting themselves.
You are misinterpreting the definition that he gave you. You are assuming the roll of a fictional character; the one who saves Sanctuary from annihilation by the Prime Evils. Just because there is a limited amount of things you can interact with does not make it any less of a RPG game. The variety of actions that you can do has no bearing on the definition of a RPG - atleast that I can see - which makes your response inadequate to disproving that Diablo is not a RPG.
The "formal system" that the game follows are essentially the monsters' stats, which govern the success - or failure - of the player. The way that you characterize - or improvise - your character's stats and skills (also known as actions) will then be matched up with the "formal system" to result in either success or failure, which is exactly what the definition describes.
The game tells a story by allowing you, the player, to assume the role of one of the main characters to progress the story. This is the absolute essence of any RPG that I've ever played. I get the feeling that you only consider tabletop games and games that give you choices for dialogue to be true RPG's; that is simply not true. No question that D&D and other tabletop RPG's can be much deeper than computer games because the human imagination is much more vast than any computer program.
Seriously? Diablo has none of these? First of all, listing customization and choice is kind of redundant. Furthermore, I don't see any evidence that validates that there is "hardly" and customization; the game gives you numerous possibilities to choose from every level.
No control of story? Your choices - whether they're skill point allocation or positioning of your character - directly affect the outcome of the story in the most direct way in that if you can't beat a certain level then you cannot advance the story.
Dialogue, assuming your specifically talking about your character's dialogue, is obviously not in the game, but Diablo 3 will be changing that as well.
Whether you advance in the story or not is not a valid arguement for saying you have an effect on the storyline.
What he means is that you would be given a fork in the path to choose. You make one choice, the story progresses one way. If you chose the other way, a whole different story developes. Rememeber the old Goosebumps books? Where they said "If you want to go down the tunnel, turn to page 154" or "If you want to run like a bitch, turn to page 178". Like that.
It's not like "If you want to continue in the story, turn the page" "If you don't want to continue the story, close the book"
you don't take - Wayne Gretzky"
- Michael Scott
If it were the case that we could only play as humans, I would hope that we would have an equal opportunity to fight both demons and angels in PvE.
So RPG's are required to have multiple endings? Ok, someone needs to enlighten me what the real definition of an RPG is because apparrently all the Final Fantasy games I've played and the 3 years that I played WoW don't count.:rolleyes:
And that's exactly what I'm getting at. It may not do everything that an RPG of a different type can, (i.e Tabletop RPG) but it is still an RPG.
Well for now angels haven't interfered too much, but D3 may change that. So yeah I say anyone angel or demon that wants to make Sanctuary a pawn or cause harm should be slain.
This isn't my only defense that Diablo is an RPG. I am well aware that you can call any game an RPG because by their very nature you are always assuming the roll of someone else. I was attempting to break down the definition that was given to you in response to your other posts.
Where does it say that an RPG has to be non-linear? If it's just your opinion that it has to be then that's fine but your tone suggests that you have factual evidence that because Diablo is not linear then it's not a RPG.
I'm showing you how the gameplay of Diablo fits the description of the definition that was posted. I Obviously can't convince you that Diablo is dynamic enough to be an RPG, but I did technically fulfill the requirements that the definition says there must be. I never said it was very sophisticated customization, but it is customization nevertheless. I'm not sure where that definition was obtained but it looks like you should take it up with them because clearly it's your opinion that they are selling a "true" RPG game very, very short.
I assume you're being facetious? You're watching someone else role play which doesn't make you role playing as well.
Again, do you have some sort of source that makes these claims factual? I'm making comparisons to a definition and you're just getting louder. You're yelling and swearing like it's obvious that Diablo isn't an RPG, but if you're just going to use your definition of RPG then this debate isn't going to progress any further.
I'm not going to argue this because frankly it wasn't one of my better points nor was it the backbone of my argument. However, having to be aware of your surroundings within the game is an immersive property. That goes beyond the numbers which, according to you, must exist to be an RPG.
Go buy Baldur's Gate II, please. Maybe you'll see the huge abyss between what BG offers and Diablo offers in terms of RPG elements and you'll agree, as well, that they cannot be mixed into the same genre. If you've never played anything like BG I can't really sit here and convince you, it's not going to get anywhere.
To Daemaro
I don't know what you're talking about. FF and Zelda are certainly RPG's. The generally meet my criteria just fine. Both have dialogues, they have open worlds, etc. Maybe not classic but still RPG's. Diablo is just so far away it's a whole other matter entirely.
To Vae Victis
Thanks.
Go buy Baldur's Gate II, please. Maybe you'll see the huge abyss between what BG offers and Diablo offers in terms of RPG elements and you'll agree, as well, that they cannot be mixed into the same genre. If you've never played anything like BG I can't really sit here and convince you, it's not going to get anywhere.
To Daemaro
I don't know what you're talking about. FF and Zelda are certainly RPG's. The generally meet my criteria just fine. Both have dialogues, they have open worlds, etc. Maybe not classic but still RPG's. Diablo is just so far away it's a whole other matter entirely.
To Vae Victis
Thanks.
So Diablo doesn't have a single RPG element in it? I just can't agree with that. Every part of what your character can do is represented by a finite number that you can calculate. I wouldn't call Halo an RPG because there is nothing numerical that represents your success or failure; either your real life reflexes and accuracy are good enough to beat the game or they're not. Now I'm not claiming that having your character represented by statistics is the be-all-end-all element of an RPG, that would be foolish, but is it not an element that appears in many if not all non text-based RPG's? I never said that Diablo was the epitome of RPG's but it has, atleast, some properties of them.
I'll quote Wiki again, "A genre of video game is also referred to as role-playing games. Although these games do not involve the playing of roles,[1] they take their name from the settings and game mechanics which they inherit from early role-playing games." So unless one can prove that Diablo's game mechanics were not influenced in any way by past RPG's, then it atleast fits this definition of RPG quite nicely.
I don't understand why you're asking me to compare Diablo to other games because it doesn't seem relevant. All I said is that Diablo technically met the requirements of the definition that was given and any definition I have seen on the subject thus far. Bottom line, there are fundamental elements from the RPG genre that are used in Diablo and therefore make it - perhaps only partially - an RPG game. I'm not 100% French so does that mean I'm not French at all?
Can you please quote where I said that? You must be mistaken.
Trying to guess which part of what I said made you think that, the "defining element" that I was refering to was not the "G" in RPG but that the mechanical system in which many RPG's (D&D, Baldur's Gate etc...) use is also used in Diablo. Perhaps it's a variation of the original system, but the main concept is still intact; the character's various attributes being valued in numbers.
In D&D, I can't just say that my character is really, really strong in his/her character description and expect that the GM will allow me to lift a boulder over my head that weighs 2,000 pounds. I have to have a number assosiated with my strength so that my strength has some point of reference that tells me what I (my character) can and can't lift. Diablo (the game) doesn't say, "ok, the first one to make contact with the sword wins." It goes by the values of my attributes - variables based on previous choices that I have made - and determines my success or failure. Can we really not agree that this is an established RPG mechanic?
Oh wait ...
There must be some sort of mistake. They allowed their game to receive two awards for the wrong genre? What shenanigans is this!? Next thing you know, EA Sports is going to get an award for "Best Action Game" for Madden 2010. So strange.
CyberPunk RP Nexus