Well I tried to post this in "Things we'd like to see in Diablo 3" but could not.
The Diablo 3 team need serious Help :confused::confused::confused: I have seen the videos for Diablo 3 and I am convinced the creators are lacking confidence in their ability to make Diablo 3 a critical & artistic (I don't mean graphics wise here, I mean as work of greatness) success. I am also convinced the blizzard team working on Diablo 3 need “help” (to put it nicely) and I hope to contribute some here Ideas praying they read this sometime before it is too late. Here is some evidence why I am so convinced:
1) DIABLO 3 BARBARIAN IS DEFINITELY A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE The previous diablos presented all new characters but the current dev team felt they needed the “draw” and obvious link to the past that is represented by the D2 barb. They did not feel confident they could create something obviously ‘diabloish’ or that would appeal to the buying audience enough so they imported the past. It’s not like Ideas were lacking as a samurai, a viking bezerker guy, an aztec headhunter warrior guy, an ‘Elric of Melnibone’ type witch-knight guy were all Ideas that are out there begging for incarnation and implementation but no, the scared Blizzard team opted for a Sean Connery type barbarian 20 years onward who still used the no-brainer whirlwind. I can sense fear and a lack of innovation here.
2) COWLEVEL RETURNING SHOWS DEVS ARE OUTTA TOUCH When there was talk of cowlevel returning at all, this showed me the guys are outta touch. I mean cowlevel is a SPOOF and such things are funny once, and should never be repeated. The fact that they didn’t squash the Idea in 5 seconds does not bode well for their ‘street IQ’ indicator. Whatya mean there is gonna be a D3 secret cow level?! Cmon think up something novel, it is NOT hard. Besides, the Cow level “paid too well”, If it returns in D3, and I’d be a tad sad, it better not be a good place to “get kewl lewt”.
3) IMPORTING THE WOW SKILL TREE TEMPLATE NOT A GOOD SIGN Now there was no real need to do this and sales of games are enhanced by new Ideas, not old ones. Why did they do this? I mean its not like you could move characters between WOW and the Diablo world is it? There were a few better options concerning skill tree setup they could have followed. * They could have opted to dispense skill trees entirely and said all abilities are available at XP level 1 and simply get improved. * They could have opted to have no skill cap on individual skills and made the cost of improving a skill by one require an expenditure of ‘talents’ equal to it’s current level. And each time your character rises an XP level, he gains ‘talents’ equal to his level. * They could have opted for a system where as your character reaches certain XP levels, he gets to improve X number of first tier skills, y number of second tier skills, z number of third tier skills. * They could have introduced subclass specialties where a character gets a minor plus in a tree of abilities but totally loses the usage of another tree. But no, they will follow WOW and try to marry it with Diablo.
I could go on a bit, but won’t. In short, I think the devs are a bit lost so lets help those no gooders out a bit with some Ideas!
Morken’s Idea #1: The Communal trading town
The CD includes a special town or gypsy camp that is not used in single player. Blizzard would create a few never closing ‘trading games’ that would be situated in this special scene. These special games: *Can only be created by blizzard on battlenet “Trading town #1” *Never close, they are effectively a persistant online world each. *Can support many more than 8 players as there are no monsters These special games also have a alehouse with a bartender inside who: *Knows when player XYZ was last logged on *Gives and takes email notes to and from other players *Will ‘hold stuff’ which he only releases to character XYZ, for up to 24 hours for a fee *Will hold stuff longer than 24 hours for a bigger fee *Answers various questions concerning players, their reps and possessions, for gold
Morken’s Idea #2: Battlenet would only offer a semi-hardcore experience.
Don’t flame yet, read first then think. Now while the single player game on people’s own computers would offer two games, softcore and hardcore, Battlenet, which is not meant as a learning field should only offer hardcore, but a hardcore with with a few changes:
2a) Tiger temple saves lives: Somewhere is the ‘Tiger temple’ where you can sacrifice magic items/gems for lives. However your relationship with the ‘cat gods’ ain’t good enough. In the town, there is some quest involving saving of a cat. After you complete this quest, you are an honoury cat as far as the feline powers are concerned. *Each magic item or gem has a ‘magic value’. *The ‘magic points’ needed to buy a grace from the cat gods depends on your current XP level. *The increase in cost as you level up could be exponential or simply proportional *There is a minimum value for items that can be used depending on your XP level. Ie- you can’t buy an extra life for your 86 barb by saccing millions of lousy little gem chips! *The temple always accepts gold sacrifices too, again depending on your level *If you die, and don’t have any graces, then you die forever. *Otherwise you can sit there and refuse to hit the escape key hoping someone comes to ressurect you. *What it takes to ressurect you, I have no Idea but it should not be cheap. *However if you have a grace saved up, the cat gods teleport you to the temple. * You cannot accumulate more than 9 lives at one time cause cats only have 9 * When you level up, you lose a grace, If you have any Note this Idea has nothing to do with Tigers! They are just being used as an illustration.
2b) Cult of the seven white wombats saves from bullies Sometime your character saves a obscure cult who are afterwards grateful to you and offer a ritual protection to you anytime. However, this ritual requres the sacrifice of magic items/gems *Every character has a flag indicating whether he has ever killed another player whom he hostiled first *If the flag = yes; then the cult will never be able to do the ritual on you, ever *The protection prevents PK’s from being able to hostile your character *The cost, like the tiger temple varies according to XP level *The ritual protection only lasts for, say, 2 XP levels, then it wears off *In Hell difficulty games, the protection of the white wombat gods is ineffective! *A warning is given when you graduate your character to Hell on battlenet. Once again Wombats are not an important part of this Idea, ok? Just an example
2c) The Astral conjurer can transport corpses Somewhere in the game is the Astral conjurer whom you befriended sometime thru a quest. For a price, he can use his crystal ball to locate your corpse & gear and teleport it to his tower. You need this as some players just die over n over when trying to get their corpse. I suppose if you die naked near your original corpse with your equipment a helpful fairy could show up and advise the poor player to go to the mage tower…No point griefing bad players as now their lives are limited.
Now, I know what you and the devs are thinking. Hardcore, even watered down hardcore is not the way to go as the Diablo fans include too many ‘weenies’ who won’t like even one death, ever and will leave if bullied. The marketing guys will shake their heads and say, no way, we might lose some sales.
I have a different view. I say, the gaming community is ‘older’ and more jaded than you realize. In the past, games have often made a bold move and be rewarded rather than punished for it. I think the Diablo fanbase of battlenet anyway are ready for a more challenging atmosphere even if some of them are not yet aware of it. The Ideas above make for a challenging game where magic items, gems and gold will always be leaving the economy cycle which is the only way to control endless inflation. It is the ONLY way to stop inflation. Semi hardcore makes for a MUCH better community of co-op players, have you ever tried? There is NO reward without risk, Hardcore is the only way to a better gaming experience even if some nasty PK experiences come with it, and a few people leave, it is still the answer. Levi’s jeans was a touch audacious to promote with the slogan “do you fit the legend’, they didn’t suffer or lose sales for it, Battlenet Diablo 3 could offer it’s online play as a real challenge and not just just a pastime (mmorpgs are just pastimes, not challenges, RTS wargames are definitely challenges, and Diablo sits in between the two cultures). Ok so the Levi’s comparison doesn’t really compare well with D3, but I think you get what I meant. I don’t think it would have any adverse effect on sales, and would ensure there is ONE COMMUNITY
Morken’s Idea #3: Beyond normal is forever beyond
*Once a character willingly enters nightmare, he can never join a normal game again. *And when he goes to Hell, he is forever a Hell game character. *When going to nightmare or hell, the game checks character level + total gear value *If that total is not impressive, a warning is given “You might now be strong enough yet”
This Idea would help prevent a certain amount of ‘twinking’, at least. The ONLY reason a game would include a level 92 and his level 11 friend is either to twink up the little guy or lead him thru the hard areas very quickly, both of which are bad for the game. I’m in favour of allowing both twinking and leading, but within some sort of plausible limit, I mean the “leader” character shouldn’t be vapourising enemies by glancing at em as they enter the screen edge.
Morken’s Idea #4: Outlaw characters should exist
*During character creation in battlenet, an “Outlaw” option can be selected *Once Outlaw, forever an Outlaw *Outlaws are red PK’s, hostile to everyone else regardless of level, including other Outlaws *Outlaws can only party with other Outlaws *Outlaws can trade, and shops may or may not service them *Outlaws are refused by the Tiger temple & Cult of wombats *Outlaws get their own battlenet ladder and special recognitions like kill stats *In Hell difficulty, Outlaws enter a game unannounced unless he is higher level than everyone else *When Outlaws enter a game, they spawn in a dark corner, away from Zonelines and teleporters *Outlaws can bribe the bartender to betray the password to a locked game for gold
No I wasn’t a PK player and, living far away from the US and yet playing on US West meant big latency issues for me anyway but the PK community is just another bunch of players who must be given their own little bit you know. Be considerate to killers!
Morken’s Idea #5: Bounty Hunter characters should exist
*During character creation in battlenet, a “Bounty Hunter” option exists *Bounty Hunter status is forever, but invisible to all other players *Bounty Hunters get XP for damaging and killing Outlaws *An Outlaw’s kill count, gear value & Xp level determine his XP value to the Hunter *Kill count in the above means total of all XP levels of all victims *Bounty Hunters only get 95% for all other XP sources *Bounty Hunters cannot hostile other players, but can accept challenges *Bounty Hunters can bribe the bartender to reveal all game names with an Outlaw within *Bounty Hunters can enter a passworded game if there is an Outlaw within *Bounty Hunters cannot benefit from PK protection
Morken’s Idea #6: TheHellish Hall of Famereplaces the Ladder
*When a character kills Hell difficulty Diablo (or whoever is the End boss) he ends existence forever *Then, that character is listed on the “ladder” now called “Hellish Hall of Fame” *Many stats will be listed under his name to give a comprehensive story about him *His personal stats *Number of times the Cat Gods intervened on his behalf *Real time taken online *Number of games entered *His final equipment *Number of kills of other players, final slayings also listed (as in took the final life) *His friend list *Number of monster A,B,C etc killed (perhaps only the stronger monsters)
This is the only way to enter the Hall of fame, and will also provide an item sink, as many people will want their “kewl lewt” on display. This is a better setup than the current ladder which shows the currently highest leveled characters. I’ll say it again, only show attainments on completion of Hell. Don’t believe that no one will dare complete, they WILL just for the fame, and there will be dudes who try to top each category like fastest time taken, lowest XP level to complete, most mutant Hippos killed, lowest Hit points for a character etc etc…Trust me on this.
If you think a character should be able to kill Hell Diablo and continue, then fine. Make it there is a separate challenge/quest area, called: TheHalls of eternity: An optional Hell difficulty quest you must complete If you want your character to retire from active play and into the Hall of fame.
Flame away :thumbsup:
Added to original post… Perma-Death, Hall of fame, Roguelike predecessors: I believe many Diablo players can't swallow some of my battlenet ideas: 1) Making a semi-hardcore game standard on battlenet. 2) Suggesting Hall of fame is for retired characters They are not so weird! Diablo was based on roguelikes which are ALL HARDCORE. ALL roguelikes are about a lone hero who does a quest and ends the game on a hall of fame. In roguelikes you get one life, and you can’t even reload as the game has already deleted the file. If you can’t draw the linage let me help you: a) The Idea of a random maze containing monsters & loot versus a lone hero comes from roguelikes The town portal scroll is an adaptation of scroll of recall from the roguelike “The Mines of Moria” c) The roguelike “Dungeon Crawl” is inspiration for: c1) The necromancer character of D2 is a direct copy of a character type who animates zombies c2) The spell “static” c3) The Idea of exploding a corpse (In dungeoncrawl, there is a spell “corpse rot”) c4) The Idea of turning corpses into various pets c5) The Idea of using corpses at all (you gotta eat corpses in that game!) c6) I also suspect “chain lightning” comes from dungeoncrawl
So you see, it wasn’t that far off for me to suggest those Ideas. Anway, If anyone want a really easy and weenie sort of roguelike just google “roguelike larn +download” I’m sure you can find it somewhere and see where D1 came from. A hardcore game.
Morken’s Idea #7: One Account per CD = NO BOTS
Ok an old Idea, but deserves harping. If you are afraid of getting accounts stolen, then, somehow link em to email accounts by forcing an email to alter passwords. It wouldn't stop all your loot going, but you'd still have an account to play.
Morken’s say on individual loot
Individual loot had better be implemented.
There is hardly a reason not to do it. The strongest reason to do it is for the sake of community. How many times is player XYZ excluded from a game because he is not trusted not to ninja grab the loot? Well with Individual loot implemented you can party with any old ninja and know you will get your fare share of drops.
1) Only the good loot should be “nametagged /soulbound”. The rest can fall for anybody to pick up.
2) Good loot should be apportioned according to XP level A given party consists of a level 55, a 33 and a level 10. Now when the random item generator says a rare has dropped, regardless of who scored the killing blow, a dice equal to 55+33+10 is rolled. 55+33+10=98. So a 1d98 is rolled. The result is 56. Now 1-55 would mean the first character, 56 to88 would mean player 2, and 89 to 98 would mean the final character. So 56 would mean the level 33 character gets an individual loot.
This system would avoid any exploitation of allowing a particular guy, the highest, to do the kills mostly, especially the bosses.
Morken’s Idea # 8 Non exploitable Town portals
I recall a Dev saying something like: “We don’t want town portals to be an easy way out, we want combats to be more tense” Well one solution is… TPs don’t work if any hostiles mobs or players are nearby You can justify it by saying TP’s are somehow a psychic field manipulation and hostiles have a disturbing aura that temporarily prevents their function. Graphically, the TP could be left “as is” with the additional effect that when hostiles are neaby, they become discolored or perhaps they waver oddly. Alternately, the TP now appears in the centre of a big glowing circle & pentacle which stops glowing when hostiles are within it’s radius. Implementing this would make it hard to use the TP as a cheap escape and also prevent it’s use to deathtrap other players.
Morken’s Idea #9: Characters should gain affix effects during their career to individualise them
People are individuals, no two are exactly the same. Many of the +affixes that are found on magic items would do just fine on a character sheet. At certain points in their progression, characters should gain a random affix, I mean the effects here, but not the name of the affix (“of kings”).
Game designers have in the past been afraid of this sort of Idea, thinking bots would roll up chars for hours and take only the best. This can be fixed by granting the random traits throughout the character’s life.
So, two level X barbarians, naked would differ. One may have an innate +6% resistance to the cold and mysteriously have 11 more Hit points more than he should, the other has +5% running speed and be surprisingly good with polearms.
Lets just say that at levels 11,22,33,44,55,66,77,88,99 an affix is gained. That would be enough to make characters individual and interesting. Of course some affixes are totally unsuitable for adding onto a character and would have to be omitted from the list and they would all have to be watered down in scale for usage on a character.
Yes I know, there would be bots who would level to 11 and quit if he didn’t roll up exactly the random bonus he wanted. There would also be character who reach level 88 and have all 8 bonuses in a narrow sort of direction which also coincided with his skill choices and he would be freakishly powerful in a single way but overall the game would improve. It is the overall result that is important.
Morken’s Idea # 10: To Hit roles are not needed
I can’t tell from the videos if this has already been implemented into D3. Some similar games have incorporated this Idea, so I wouldn’t be surprised If it was already in.
In Diablo 2, a glacial spike always hit and yet an zon’s arrows needed a to hit roll that incorporated comparing an Attack rating number versus a Defence rating. Why the difference?
All attacks: Melee, missile & magic should resolve as area attacks with 100% certainty.
That’s right, no misses that run contrary to what the graphic is showing. If a mob is within the area when the attack resolves, it has been hit. This would also lighten the game processes by a step.Some characters and mobs would still have an innate “dodge”, that came with an animation.
Morken’s Idea # 10b : No Dex stat needed
It’s not needed and any game effect like dodging blows could be based on a skill. Weapons never need a Dex to wield anyway. Even a bow only requires STR to pull the string. Any other related gamestat like frequency of attack could also be relegated to a skill level.
Some games use DEX to modify movement speed as in: 1 Dex = +1% movement rate. I think I’m in favour of ditching it completely as movement rate invariably ends up too good, so it must be capped or some very strange characters will appear who outrun arrows.
Morken’s Idea #11: Shield blocking chance higher for characters standing still
Obsolete, already in, but probably not enough from what I remember.
Morken’s Idea # 12: Healthglobes should be % based & of multiple types
From the youtube footage, it seems there are only red globes, one type and it isn’t clear how they base their healing. There should be two types, one which bases it’s healing on maximum health and the other basing it’s healing on percentage of damage taken. For example:
1) Red: Heals points equal to 25% of max life points of each character 2) Purple: Heals damage equal to 75% of total damage taken
So if your 100 life point character has taken 25 points of damage, the red globe would heal him to max but a purple would only heal about 16 life. However if he had taken 80 points of damage, the red would still only put him up 25 but the purple would heal him 60 points. The reasoning for these two types I have proposed is to create an incentive, in certain circumstances to hold back and grab the globe at the last possible moment. This makes for exciting moments of great danger.
The globes heal by refering to a percentage of the character life rather than give a straight up +50, +100, +200 health of healing to encourage and reward a more balanced sort of build. In softcore battlenet, the standard character build is a “glass cannon” with 400-800 hit points, just enough to take a hit and the rest in attack related traits.
The devs said “We wanted to kill that sort of character” (the potion guzzling super leecher) who is the standard hero of hardcore on battlenet. Now let me say, it was the brave and proper way to go. To paraphrase him, the devs wanted to bring back real resource management, which was much of the tension in D1. You can’t do that without two things. 1) Finite resources 2) A real death penalty Well, number 2 appears weak already based on what Ive seen so that leaves 1. Unlike potions which were plentiful, available from town and barbarians making em, globes are non storable, appear when they like, and perhaps, appear randomly creating drought periods. They can only make this meaningful by having a limited number of globes dropping, and this means the characters will be needing to get a big number of healing each time. They should make it so the “glass cannon” guys may not be getting enough healing to make it in the long run.
If the globes heal a straight up +XYZ rather than a amount based on a percentage of max health, you will see a continuation of the current style which is the "glass cannon" build as the favoured softcore model.
Yes, I say, reward the more balanced builds and not just the glass canons! Bring a serious death penalty to make those guys think about survival seriously, in NM and Hell anyway, normal can be a weenie fest for all I care.
The globes should vanish after a while It appears the globes are permanent items when they should not be.
Giving them a 60 second lifespan (they start blinking after 55 seconds) would stop encouraging tactics to leave em behind and fight a strange retreating battle with bosses later, picking up the old globes. The devs have just said when you die, you will respawn back a bit, with a bit of health, regerating slowly. If you regen at all, it WILL encourage the encourage lame tactics of leaving the globe and opting to simply sit around regenerating (cause you won't be able to regen with the boss, cause for a start, he will regen just as fast).
Morken’s Idea # 13: No regeneration for anyone, ever, Mana or Health
Make the globes replenish mana and life Bosses should get a 100% heal if there are no hostile players in his vicinity, even for a moment.
The devs just said it. When you die, you come back with a bit of health & regen.
Now I dunno all the details but it sounds like they are encouraging the player to just cower a bit after a kill which goes contrary to the spirit of some of what they said in some videos, you know, never ending action blah blah.
Regen for players encourages lame tactics like running around the block. Regen for monsters has a nasty side effect: it further encourages high attack characters. Now that does not need any further encouragement!
It is already the holy grail, and will also be in D3 so don't reward em any more! A high damage character basically ignores monster regen while unusual or suboptimal characters take forever to kill a regenerating boss. Don’t do it again in D3. Don’t lecture me about poison either, that is a side issue.
In any game where you could stand around in a corner and just regen, resource management was a non issue. It kills much of the tension.
Just make the globes replenish both mana and life and the game will be a game of real resource management. Also, by making this so, the strange hybrid melee/magic builds who were always punished greatly as suboptimal guys become a bit more viable as they expend both HPs and mana to kill foes and will last a bit better this way.
If you want to be kind, a character using a power that burns mana when NO HOSTILE is nearby activates this: The game still takes the mana cost but also records a “payback number” and slowly regens that mana thinking “well that player either made a typo or he is just looking at the graphic animation”.
A boss should only regen when a player runs to town and exploits some cheapo heal.
I don't think there will be any such opportunity by the sound of things.
Morken’s Idea # 14: Melee animations should allow for a single, parting chasing strike
It doesn’t appear as if the standard attack in D3 does in fact allow forward mobility during the swing animation. Just like D2, even if you run much faster than the fleeing target, you still stop and swing and unless you are using a super fast weapon, you end up missing and repeating the loop.
In Diablo 2, if you tried to melee strike a fleeing mob or hostile player you hardly ever hit unless you used a special ability like charge. Now this is plainly wrong, fighting men did get hit in the back. If you don’t change it, it will lead to that strange sequence of swing sword while remaining stationary-> miss as the opponent keeps moving forward. Repeart. It did not look too good.
I’m proposing that ordinary melee attacks not interrupt any forward movement until the attack has been completed, and then any applicable delay/recovery be applied after that. It sounds a minor point but you have got to let the melee guy land one more on the fleeing mob or hostile player. It makes a big difference.
The easiest way to implement forward motion with striking is this…. If my barbarian is currently chasing a fleeing mob and I wish to strike then I would click the left mousebuttong while not releasing the right mouse button which controls forward movement (for my favoured configuration anyway). What the screen would show is, my barb stopping, raising his sword backward, lunging forward as he swings and connects onto the back of the mob. The forward motion during the swing should exceed normal movement speed to make up for the lost ground during the delay. If, during the swing, I take my finger off the right mouse button, the forward motion should also cease. The animation during time when forward motion is combined with a sword swing need not include any footstep animations as simply sliding the barb forward would suffice and look acceptible. After the strike, hit or miss, my barb would be stopped in place for a delay to allow the fleeing mob to gain enough of a lead on me to rule out any possibility of a repeat performance, assuming his movement rate is equal to mine. Alternately, perhaps it would be best if the backswing occur without delaying the forward motion.
I know, abilities like charge exist, but you must allow allcharacter types this ability, one hit in the back. I'm talking every Witchdoctor hitting another fleeing Witchdoctor with a stick in PvP here.
1. Barbarian is returning because the class became too much like a barbarian to try and reinvent hot water, so they just used the name.
2. No one said the cow level is returning.
3. WoW doesn't even have a skill tree. You are just showing your ignorance. And D3 skill system will only be revealed in the 'future'.
That makes the remaining pile of bullcrap you said completely obsolete since your original premise is based on false statements and ignorance. Your 'hardcore only' Battle.Net idea is so idiotic and painful to read that I can't even describe it. Is any of the things you said even remotely based on lore or common sense for that matter?
big post so i'll have to reply one piece at a time:
1.
Quote from Morken »
[COLOR=yellow]1) DIABLO 3 BARBARIAN IS DEFINITELY A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#dfb579]The previous diablos presented all new characters but the current dev team felt they needed the “draw” and obvious link to the past that is represented by the D2 barb. They did not feel confident they could create something obviously ‘diabloish’ or that would appeal to the buying audience enough so they imported the past. It’s not like Ideas were lacking as a samurai, a viking bezerker guy, an aztec headhunter warrior guy, an ‘Elric of Melnibone’ type witch-knight guy were all Ideas that are out there begging for incarnation and implementation but no, the scared Blizzard team opted for a Sean Connery type barbarian 20 years onward who still used the no-brainer whirlwind. I can sense fear and a lack of innovation here.[/COLOR]
as Dimebog said, they started making classes from scratch. The brute melee warrior archetype they were making looked pretty much like the Barbarian and everyone would eventually call him "barb" no matter how Blizzard would name him. So they took the same name instead.
2.
Quote from "Morken »
[COLOR=yellow]2) COWLEVEL RETURNING SHOWS DEVS ARE OUTTA TOUCH[/COLOR']
again, there's nothing to make sure the cowlevel will be in the final game. These guys are planning to make things interesting and not to have some "certain" grind spots for the players to level. I highly doubt that even if there is a cowlevel it will be exactly as it was in Diablo 2. Nothing is.
3.
[COLOR=yellow]3) IMPORTING THE WOW SKILL TREE TEMPLATE NOT A GOOD SIGN[/COLOR]
first of all, i dont know how you got that impression. None ever has officially stated anything about the Diablo 3 skill system yet. Unless you suggest that you have a friend whos uncle whos brother whos wife's sister works in Blizzard (that would make things even less certain for us) who told you that its going to be that way, then you cant possibly know for sure either.
But even if it was true, i'd prefer it to the old system where especially in Hell difficulty with the immunities (especially as a caster) couldnt have a viable spec to finish the game on your own.
Specific skills and specific talent lines to make skills more effective would make the game more interesting on the long run.
as a side-note, WoW got the talent lines from Diablo 2, if Diablo 3 gets an "evolved" kind of talent-lines, they're still have their origins in Diablo.
4.
[COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=yellow]Morken’s Idea #1: The Communal trading town[/COLOR][/COLOR]
i'm not sure how this works, it barely makes any sense as you describe it.
5.
[COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=yellow]Morken’s Idea #2: Battlenet would only offer a hardcore experience.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
that would make Battle.net deserted. About 2/3 of the people that used to play on Battle.net played softcore. Still the majority of the people that play online are softcore. There should be at least both modes.
There could be achievements if you manage to finish the game without a death, even in softcore, and special achievements with each difficulty you manage to finish on hardcore.
In any way, that idea would destroy the online experience.
excuse me but thats completely crap.
whats the point of a hardcore mode if you can "buy" more lives? Its Diablo, not Super Mario. In hardcore, when you die, you're dead. In softcore, when you die, you lose xp, maybe gold too but keep playing. Simple as that.
7.
[COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=#ffcc00]2b) Cult of the seven white wombats saves from bullies[/COLOR][/COLOR]
as it is now, there wont be a possibility to random hostile and kill players (at least according to the Lead Game Designer of the game). I dont see the point sacrificing gear for such "protection". Such things would destroy the balance of the game, because people would not only think to get gear for themselves, and whatever they dont need to use they could trade for something useful, but also which gear to sacrifice for protection. Pretty crappy thing to implement if you ask me.
8.
[COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=#ffcc00]2c) The Astral conjurer can transport corpses[/COLOR][/COLOR]
whats the point. considering the "buying lives in hardcore" is something that doesnt suit the game, its less than useful. At least have the thrill to manage and kill the enemies they killed you as you try to regain some of your lost xp and gold. As it will only be availiable in softcore to continue playing after death.
9.
[COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=yellow]Morken’s Idea #3: Beyond normal is forever beyond[/COLOR][/COLOR]
that would completely destroy the game as "co-op".
lets assume that you will go from normal to nightmare at around the same level as in Diablo 2 to have an example here:
i have a friend who is level 35 and wants to get to nightmare but cant manage to kill the end-boss by himself and doesnt want to have to bother looking for other games around. Me on the other hand i'm level 35 too but have killed the final boss the day before. Why shouldn't i be able to help my friend come to nightmare difficulty with me?
and even if we're talking about higher level characters, why shouldnt they be able to help? Maybe add a level limit (no characters before x level can go to nightmare and no character before y level can go to hell) to prevent leeching.
10.
[COLOR=#dfb579] [COLOR=yellow]Morken’s Idea #4: Outlaw characters should exist [/COLOR][/COLOR]
thats actually the one idea that could work out. Well, not exactly as you say it, but still. Like an "Outlaw Mode" in which PK is possible. In fact, its sort of a free for all PvP mode where you can kill monsters or/and people. Grouping should be possible, but there arent any limitations to turning hostile.
11.
[COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=yellow]Morken’s Idea #5: Bounty Hunter characters should exist[/COLOR][/COLOR]
as of that, if we would consider this "outlaw mode" there could be some sort of pvp experience bar (very much like what we're seeing in Age of Conan) to give the players that are successfull in "Outlaw Mode" some special titles, or even achievements.
12.
[quote][COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=yellow]Morken’s Idea #6: The[/COLOR][COLOR=red]Hellish Hall of Fame[/COLOR][COLOR=yellow]replaces the Ladder[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#dfb579]*When a character kills Hell difficulty Diablo (or whoever is the End boss) he ends existence forever[[/COLOR][/COLOR]/QUOTE]
from all the ideas, thats the worst. Thats the point losing your character after you finish the game? One of the things that kept Diablo and Diablo 2 alive all these years was that you could keep playing, gaining levels/skill points and upgrading your gear.
That would make people lose interest, or force them not to ever kill the final boss. Also, killing the final boss wouldnt give any loots either, since you wouldnt be needing it afterwards.
I agree with Fingolfin on most points. I think it would be interesting to see how the whole 'entering a game without people knowing' and then attacking them would work. It would definitely provide some adrenaline rushes on both sides, but it would also probably be abused pretty bad. There needs to be more of a deterrent for someone to do this, because mostly people will choose targets they can easily take on. So it isn't much of a risk or reason not to attack people at will.
I don't mean to be rude, but realistically, most of your post was just opinion on what you'd prefer. Nothing wrong with that, but don't play your opinions as fact.
I think it's a wonderful idea for the same reason you think it's a bad idea: It's a returning joke between the developers and the gamers. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to enjoy it, don't.
I understand what ur bringing to the table, but this is not finalfantasyfans.com Your ideas are not bad... but they're not diablo ideas I.M.O.
The only almost-valid point u have is the first one, about the Barb being re-included.
Which brings me to a previous theory,
The barbarian (the same from D2 we all know), will be an intricate part of D3's storyline, whether u play as him or not.
And...
To have very easily gotten all that out of the way, i say this to you:
"HOW CAN YOU SAY TEAM D3 NEEDS HELP, JUST BY WATCHING A TWELVE MINUTE INTRODUCTION?"
I think the trading camp is a fairly good idea . . it made sense to me anyway. The rest is personal preferences, which means it comes down to your idea of a good game vs. Blizzard's.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
For those who didn’t get the communal trading town Idea:
On battlenet, the first 1-5 or so listed games appear as: Trading town game #1 Trading town game #2 Trading town game #3 Trading town game #4 Trading town game #5 These games can hold much more than 8 or so players because they are just one special scene, no mobs. This special scene, the data for which is included in the CD so you don’t have to download a anything for. Now these special trading town scenes of course look different to any other scene in D3. Some possibilities include a gypsy wagon camp, a town square market scene, a toadstool ring clearing in an enchanted glade etc etc. Get it?
Robiwan
have u even plaid Diablo anything OP?
Ok I must admit it, no. I am a toilet cleaner who in my spare time hops from forum to forum trying to pass myself off as an expert in any subject from tractor axles, brain surgery technique to solar powered hats but always eventually someone finds me out and exposes me as an uninformed fake. Today it was you. Hats off to you for spotting this first.
Robiwan
HOW CAN YOU SAY TEAM D3 NEEDS HELP, JUST BY WATCHING A TWELVE MINUTE INTRODUCTION?
My reponse is, psychology. Lets say I’m very good at intuiting things.
Magistrate
most of your post was just opinion on what you'd prefer
Magistrate, all suggestions/Ideas are exactly that. Preferences.
Murderface, if you are going to speak at all, then points please, not just one liners. Ive noticed lots of your posts are just snide one liners. Get out of the habit. Same with you blizter, say something with substance.
Dimebog, supposing your 3 listed points are spot on concerning my first 3 statements. Do you think then the remaining Ideas must then be ruled obsolete? I mean do you really think they necessarily depend on the first 3 statements? Or do you think it is possible they have merit without reference to the first 3?
1. Barbarian is returning because the class became too much like a barbarian to try and reinvent hot water, so they just used the name.
Do you really believe that?
Why don’t you admit the more likely truth that the Barbarian archtype import is there to preserve a link with Diablo2 and serve as a draw, which they sadly felt they could not equal with their own creativity. It was a vote of no confidence like I said, no?
Why didn’t the D2 team just rename the melee character as “warrior”, figuring everyone would just call him a warrior anyway? Pfffffft Cmon, you don’t believe that explanation.
Fingol effectively that a semi-hardcore experience is “crap”. Fingol, what is so far fetched with a halfway mode?
In hardcore, when you die, you're dead. In softcore, when you die, you lose xp, maybe gold too but keep playing. Simple as that.,
you say. Yes yes, it is easy to state the facts of how things are currently anyone can do that, but why exactly is a halfway mode so bad? Simply because it ain’t how things used to be? That seems to be the dogmatic logic you are using, do you think its valid all by itself?
Fingol
I dont see the point sacrificing gear for such "protection."Such things would destroy the balance of the game, because people would not only think to get gear for themselves, and whatever they dont need to use they could trade for something useful, but also which gear to sacrifice for protection. Pretty crappy thing to implement if you ask me.
Fingol, the point of saccing magic items is this… It removes them from circulation in the economy, an item sink to fight inflation. Don’t you think that is a valid point? Why exactly would it “destroy the balance of the game?” I suspect you had Noooooo Idea of what you meant by that, I’m challenging you to explain that logic. In what way would it unbalance? Who or what is benefitting from the tipping of the scales here?
Fingol “whats the point.”- concerning a service to draw your old corpse loot to you. As explained above, many players when naked, die repeatedly. This is bad news in a world where lives are limited. The service helps them avoid running into “that room full of extra fast, extra strong #$$%%$”.
Fingol
that would completely destroy the game as "co-op".
Fingol, if your friend didn’t need you to babysit him on single player on his own PC, then he doesn’t need it on battlenet. If “he” is such a bosum buddy of yours that you two just can’t stand being apart from each other, then you guys are friends and would have arranged prior to kill normal Diablo together rather than yourself doing it earlier and stranding your weakling mate. Don’t you think the Pros outweigh the cons here? The Idea I put forward reduces twinking, trading & leading to a decent level doesn’t it?
Fingol
Thats the point losing your character after you finish the game?
Ok concerning that, I listed an option for the “halls of eternity”, which seems the better way to go. I’ll remind you here that no one is forcing you to go to the hall of fame. It is up to you, you can farm Hell Diablo forever if you want. Don’t you think the option is good? Many people will take it and enter the Hall of fame. It is not a new Idea you know, some games already have it.
Dimebog, supposing your 3 listed points are spot on concerning my first 3 statements. Do you think then the remaining Ideas must then be ruled obsolete? I mean do you really think they necessarily depend on the first 3 statements? Or do you think it is possible they have merit without reference to the first 3?
Your first three statements are supposed to prove that 'Diablo 3 devs need help'. Considering that all three reasons are completely based on lies and ignorance, everything that follows as based on the premise is obsolete, starting with the cocky thread title which maye have been just an eye-sore meant to draw attention to your idiotic ideas that are literally on a level of imagination of any 8-year old child who never heard that there is such thing as Diablo lore.
Basically you're saying D3 devs are fools, and YOU are going to help them with your Tiger Temple ideas and losing your character forever as a reward for finishing the game. Your stance disgusts me and makes me wonder of your mental capacity to reason.
You are insulting me with your thread title and explanation as to why your thread title is justified. Edit the title and remove the three points, leaving your post with 'fresh' ideas and I won't object a thing.
There is hardly a reason not to do it. The strongest reason to do it is for the sake of community. How many times is player XYZ excluded from a game because he is not trusted not to ninja grab the loot? Well with Individual loot implemented you can party with any old ninja and know you will get your fare share of drops.
1) Only the good loot should be “nametagged /soulbound”. The rest can fall for anybody to pick up.
2) Good loot should be apportioned according to XP level A given party consists of a level 55, a 33 and a level 10. Now when the random item generator says a rare has dropped, regardless of who scored the killing blow, a dice equal to 55+33+10 is rolled. 55+33+10=98. So a 1d98 is rolled. The result is 56. Now 1-55 would mean the first character, 56 to88 would mean player 2, and 89 to 98 would mean the final character. So 56 would mean the level 33 character gets an individual loot.
This system would avoid any exploitation of allowing a particular guy, the highest, to do the kills mostly, especially the bosses.
Dimebog truly you are an obstinate & inflamatory sort of fellow
Wrong... botters have like 10 and more cdkeys, they got them by buying them or by scamming them. I myself scammed a scammer and got what he had and thats a big amount, the scam he made was so fucking obvious...
Anyway, people will always find a way to scam people. As easy as making a program saying "FREE LEVELING" " ENTER ACCOUNT NAME, PASS, CDKEY" and people will fall for it. How do you think they set up all those publicities with bots in the channels ?
[FONT=Tahoma]you say. Yes yes, it is easy to state the facts of how things are currently anyone can do that, but why exactly is a halfway mode so bad? Simply because it ain’t how things used to be? That seems to be the dogmatic logic you are using, do you think its valid all by itself?[/FONT']
i didnt state facts ase they are, i simply stated how useless it would be to have such a "halfway" mode it would be. Only the rich (and those that bought stuff for real cash) would manage to run through the game without any issues cause they'd be able to "buy" more lives.
What you suggest is a very good way to make the mode completely uninteresting.
Quote from Morken »
[FONT=Tahoma]Fingol, the point of saccing magic items is this…[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]It removes them from circulation in the economy, an item sink to fight inflation.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Don’t you think that is a valid point?[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Why exactly would it “destroy the balance of the game?”[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]I suspect you had Noooooo Idea of what you meant by that, I’m challenging you to explain that logic.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]In what way would it unbalance? Who or what is benefitting from the tipping of the scales here?[/FONT]
a much more effective way to remove the item from the circulation would be to make it "bound on pickup" or "bound on equip". Worked well before. While nuking stuff to gain even pieces (see Hellgate: London) didnt. Not to mention buying benefits that would even more unbalance the game in the favor of one player against the other.
Quote from Morken »
[FONT=Tahoma]Fingol[/FONT][FONT=Tahoma] “whats the point.”- concerning a service to draw your old corpse loot to you.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]As explained above, many players when naked, die repeatedly. This is bad news in a world where lives are limited. The service helps them avoid running into “that room full of extra fast, extra strong #$$%%$”.[/FONT]
so, pay in gold/items to accomplish the same thing as a Save & Exit and then re-entering a game?
That you could easily do if your example happened. With no cost. While fighting back to get your corpse/gravestone/whatever they want to have after we die will feel very much like vengeance against the enemy that actually killed you. There's no reason to try to change everything that worked before, simply because its the sequel.
Quote from Morken »
[FONT=Tahoma]Fingol, if your friend didn’t need you to babysit him on single player on his own PC, then he doesn’t need it on battlenet.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]If “he” is such a bosum buddy of yours that you two just can’t stand being apart from each other, then you guys are friends and would have arranged prior to kill normal Diablo together rather than yourself doing it earlier and stranding your weakling mate.[/FONT] [FONT=Tahoma]Don’t you think the Pros outweigh the cons here? The Idea I put forward reduces twinking, trading & leading to a decent level doesn’t it?[/FONT]
that was an example. To make another one:
how often have you killed Mephisto in Nightmare, after you went to hell difficulty, simply because some of the gear he can drop would be an upgrade?
Grinding isnt fun for some people, but its alot fun for some others. While its also good for people that dont want to have to create characters with no gear at all (applicable mostly online).
There shouldnt be such a restriction because it also reduces the fun factor. I very much liked to smash the enemies in normal/nightmare when my character was overpowered after a certain level. I didnt have to pay too much attention, i simply slaughtered them, which was also fun. The player should have the choice. If you dont want to play on previous difficulties, by all means dont! none forces you to! Besides, the channels of the game did only show you the games of the difficulty you were on. And you could always set a level limit too.
There could/should be some adjustments to the matchmaking part of battle.net but thats a completely different thing.
And no, in general i dont think the pros outweigh the cons here. I'd consider it a pretty useless change.
Quote from "Morken »
[FONT=Tahoma]Ok concerning that, I listed an option for the “halls of eternity”, which seems the better way to go. I’ll remind you here that no one is forcing you to go to the hall of fame. It is up to you, you can farm Hell Diablo forever if you want. Don’t you think the option is good? Many people will take it and enter the Hall of fame. It is not a new Idea you know, some games already have it.[/FONT']
as an option it might work, but it still doesnt make much sense to me. Personal opinion, though, not trying to argue about it.
as you should have been able to see by now, there's nothing in my posts that in no way i am dogmatic. I was/am ready to accept any good ideas, but to do so they got to be good.
“IMPORTING THE WOW SKILL TREE TEMPLATE NOT A GOOD SIGN”
It has just dawned on me some of you have taken it that I thought that the whole list of skills from WOW had been imported into Diablo 3.
This is not so, when I said “Template” what I meant was the skeletal backbone only, ie- skill maxes at 5/10/20. There was no need or advantage to this move, as I saw it, it was a vote of “no confidence” and a valid concern.
The Diablo 3 team need serious Help :confused::confused::confused:
I have seen the videos for Diablo 3 and I am convinced the creators are lacking confidence in their ability to make Diablo 3 a critical & artistic (I don't mean graphics wise here, I mean as work of greatness) success. I am also convinced the blizzard team working on Diablo 3 need “help” (to put it nicely) and I hope to contribute some here Ideas praying they read this sometime before it is too late.
Here is some evidence why I am so convinced:
1) DIABLO 3 BARBARIAN IS DEFINITELY A VOTE OF NO CONFIDENCE
The previous diablos presented all new characters but the current dev team felt they needed the “draw” and obvious link to the past that is represented by the D2 barb. They did not feel confident they could create something obviously ‘diabloish’ or that would appeal to the buying audience enough so they imported the past. It’s not like Ideas were lacking as a samurai, a viking bezerker guy, an aztec headhunter warrior guy, an ‘Elric of Melnibone’ type witch-knight guy were all Ideas that are out there begging for incarnation and implementation but no, the scared Blizzard team opted for a Sean Connery type barbarian 20 years onward who still used the no-brainer whirlwind. I can sense fear and a lack of innovation here.
2) COWLEVEL RETURNING SHOWS DEVS ARE OUTTA TOUCH
When there was talk of cowlevel returning at all, this showed me the guys are outta touch. I mean cowlevel is a SPOOF and such things are funny once, and should never be repeated. The fact that they didn’t squash the Idea in 5 seconds does not bode well for their ‘street IQ’ indicator.
Whatya mean there is gonna be a D3 secret cow level?! Cmon think up something novel, it is NOT hard. Besides, the Cow level “paid too well”, If it returns in D3, and I’d be a tad sad, it better not be a good place to “get kewl lewt”.
3) IMPORTING THE WOW SKILL TREE TEMPLATE NOT A GOOD SIGN
Now there was no real need to do this and sales of games are enhanced by new Ideas, not old ones. Why did they do this? I mean its not like you could move characters between WOW and the Diablo world is it? There were a few better options concerning skill tree setup they could have followed.
* They could have opted to dispense skill trees entirely and said all abilities are available at XP level 1 and simply get improved.
* They could have opted to have no skill cap on individual skills and made the cost of improving a skill by one require an expenditure of ‘talents’ equal to it’s current level. And each time your character rises an XP level, he gains ‘talents’ equal to his level.
* They could have opted for a system where as your character reaches certain XP levels, he gets to improve X number of first tier skills, y number of second tier skills, z number of third tier skills.
* They could have introduced subclass specialties where a character gets a minor plus in a tree of abilities but totally loses the usage of another tree.
But no, they will follow WOW and try to marry it with Diablo.
I could go on a bit, but won’t. In short, I think the devs are a bit lost so lets help those no gooders out a bit with some Ideas!
Blizzard would create a few never closing ‘trading games’ that would be situated in this special scene.
These special games:
*Can only be created by blizzard on battlenet “Trading town #1”
*Never close, they are effectively a persistant online world each.
*Can support many more than 8 players as there are no monsters
These special games also have a alehouse with a bartender inside who:
*Knows when player XYZ was last logged on
*Gives and takes email notes to and from other players
*Will ‘hold stuff’ which he only releases to character XYZ, for up to 24 hours for a fee
*Will hold stuff longer than 24 hours for a bigger fee
*Answers various questions concerning players, their reps and possessions, for gold
Now while the single player game on people’s own computers would offer two games, softcore and hardcore, Battlenet, which is not meant as a learning field should only offer hardcore, but a hardcore with with a few changes:
2a) Tiger temple saves lives:
Somewhere is the ‘Tiger temple’ where you can sacrifice magic items/gems for lives. However your relationship with the ‘cat gods’ ain’t good enough. In the town, there is some quest involving saving of a cat. After you complete this quest, you are an honoury cat as far as the feline powers are concerned.
*Each magic item or gem has a ‘magic value’.
*The ‘magic points’ needed to buy a grace from the cat gods depends on your current XP level.
*The increase in cost as you level up could be exponential or simply proportional
*There is a minimum value for items that can be used depending on your XP level.
Ie- you can’t buy an extra life for your 86 barb by saccing millions of lousy little gem chips!
*The temple always accepts gold sacrifices too, again depending on your level
*If you die, and don’t have any graces, then you die forever.
*Otherwise you can sit there and refuse to hit the escape key hoping someone comes to ressurect you.
*What it takes to ressurect you, I have no Idea but it should not be cheap.
*However if you have a grace saved up, the cat gods teleport you to the temple.
* You cannot accumulate more than 9 lives at one time cause cats only have 9
* When you level up, you lose a grace, If you have any
Note this Idea has nothing to do with Tigers! They are just being used as an illustration.
2b) Cult of the seven white wombats saves from bullies
Sometime your character saves a obscure cult who are afterwards grateful to you and offer a ritual protection to you anytime. However, this ritual requres the sacrifice of magic items/gems
*Every character has a flag indicating whether he has ever killed another player whom he hostiled first
*If the flag = yes; then the cult will never be able to do the ritual on you, ever
*The protection prevents PK’s from being able to hostile your character
*The cost, like the tiger temple varies according to XP level
*The ritual protection only lasts for, say, 2 XP levels, then it wears off
*In Hell difficulty games, the protection of the white wombat gods is ineffective!
*A warning is given when you graduate your character to Hell on battlenet.
Once again Wombats are not an important part of this Idea, ok? Just an example
2c) The Astral conjurer can transport corpses
Somewhere in the game is the Astral conjurer whom you befriended sometime thru a quest. For a price, he can use his crystal ball to locate your corpse & gear and teleport it to his tower. You need this as some players just die over n over when trying to get their corpse. I suppose if you die naked near your original corpse with your equipment a helpful fairy could show up and advise the poor player to go to the mage tower…No point griefing bad players as now their lives are limited.
Now, I know what you and the devs are thinking. Hardcore, even watered down hardcore is not the way to go as the Diablo fans include too many ‘weenies’ who won’t like even one death, ever and will leave if bullied. The marketing guys will shake their heads and say, no way, we might lose some sales.
I have a different view. I say, the gaming community is ‘older’ and more jaded than you realize. In the past, games have often made a bold move and be rewarded rather than punished for it. I think the Diablo fanbase of battlenet anyway are ready for a more challenging atmosphere even if some of them are not yet aware of it. The Ideas above make for a challenging game where magic items, gems and gold will always be leaving the economy cycle which is the only way to control endless inflation.
It is the ONLY way to stop inflation.
Semi hardcore makes for a MUCH better community of co-op players, have you ever tried?
There is NO reward without risk, Hardcore is the only way to a better gaming experience even if some nasty PK experiences come with it, and a few people leave, it is still the answer.
Levi’s jeans was a touch audacious to promote with the slogan “do you fit the legend’, they didn’t suffer or lose sales for it, Battlenet Diablo 3 could offer it’s online play as a real challenge and not just just a pastime (mmorpgs are just pastimes, not challenges, RTS wargames are definitely challenges, and Diablo sits in between the two cultures). Ok so the Levi’s comparison doesn’t really compare well with D3, but I think you get what I meant. I don’t think it would have any adverse effect on sales, and would ensure there is ONE COMMUNITY
*And when he goes to Hell, he is forever a Hell game character.
*When going to nightmare or hell, the game checks character level + total gear value
*If that total is not impressive, a warning is given “You might now be strong enough yet”
This Idea would help prevent a certain amount of ‘twinking’, at least. The ONLY reason a game would include a level 92 and his level 11 friend is either to twink up the little guy or lead him thru the hard areas very quickly, both of which are bad for the game. I’m in favour of allowing both twinking and leading, but within some sort of plausible limit, I mean the “leader” character shouldn’t be vapourising enemies by glancing at em as they enter the screen edge.
*Once Outlaw, forever an Outlaw
*Outlaws are red PK’s, hostile to everyone else regardless of level, including other Outlaws
*Outlaws can only party with other Outlaws
*Outlaws can trade, and shops may or may not service them
*Outlaws are refused by the Tiger temple & Cult of wombats
*Outlaws get their own battlenet ladder and special recognitions like kill stats
*In Hell difficulty, Outlaws enter a game unannounced unless he is higher level than everyone else
*When Outlaws enter a game, they spawn in a dark corner, away from Zonelines and teleporters
*Outlaws can bribe the bartender to betray the password to a locked game for gold
No I wasn’t a PK player and, living far away from the US and yet playing on US West meant big latency issues for me anyway but the PK community is just another bunch of players who must be given their own little bit you know. Be considerate to killers!
*Bounty Hunter status is forever, but invisible to all other players
*Bounty Hunters get XP for damaging and killing Outlaws
*An Outlaw’s kill count, gear value & Xp level determine his XP value to the Hunter
*Kill count in the above means total of all XP levels of all victims
*Bounty Hunters only get 95% for all other XP sources
*Bounty Hunters cannot hostile other players, but can accept challenges
*Bounty Hunters can bribe the bartender to reveal all game names with an Outlaw within
*Bounty Hunters can enter a passworded game if there is an Outlaw within
*Bounty Hunters cannot benefit from PK protection
*Then, that character is listed on the “ladder” now called “Hellish Hall of Fame”
*Many stats will be listed under his name to give a comprehensive story about him
*His personal stats
*Number of times the Cat Gods intervened on his behalf
*Real time taken online
*Number of games entered
*His final equipment
*Number of kills of other players, final slayings also listed (as in took the final life)
*His friend list
*Number of monster A,B,C etc killed (perhaps only the stronger monsters)
This is the only way to enter the Hall of fame, and will also provide an item sink, as many people will want their “kewl lewt” on display. This is a better setup than the current ladder which shows the currently highest leveled characters. I’ll say it again, only show attainments on completion of Hell. Don’t believe that no one will dare complete, they WILL just for the fame, and there will be dudes who try to top each category like fastest time taken, lowest XP level to complete, most mutant Hippos killed, lowest Hit points for a character etc etc…Trust me on this.
If you think a character should be able to kill Hell Diablo and continue, then fine. Make it there is a separate challenge/quest area, called:
The Halls of eternity: An optional Hell difficulty quest you must complete If you want your character to retire from active play and into the Hall of fame.
Flame away :thumbsup:
Added to original post…
Perma-Death, Hall of fame, Roguelike predecessors:
I believe many Diablo players can't swallow some of my battlenet ideas:
1) Making a semi-hardcore game standard on battlenet.
2) Suggesting Hall of fame is for retired characters
They are not so weird!
Diablo was based on roguelikes which are ALL HARDCORE.
ALL roguelikes are about a lone hero who does a quest and ends the game on a hall of fame.
In roguelikes you get one life, and you can’t even reload as the game has already deleted the file. If you can’t draw the linage let me help you:
a) The Idea of a random maze containing monsters & loot versus a lone hero comes from roguelikes
The town portal scroll is an adaptation of scroll of recall from the roguelike “The Mines of Moria”
c) The roguelike “Dungeon Crawl” is inspiration for:
c1) The necromancer character of D2 is a direct copy of a character type who animates zombies
c2) The spell “static”
c3) The Idea of exploding a corpse (In dungeoncrawl, there is a spell “corpse rot”)
c4) The Idea of turning corpses into various pets
c5) The Idea of using corpses at all (you gotta eat corpses in that game!)
c6) I also suspect “chain lightning” comes from dungeoncrawl
So you see, it wasn’t that far off for me to suggest those Ideas. Anway, If anyone want a really easy and weenie sort of roguelike just google “roguelike larn +download” I’m sure you can find it somewhere and see where D1 came from. A hardcore game.
Individual loot had better be implemented.
There is hardly a reason not to do it. The strongest reason to do it is for the sake of community. How many times is player XYZ excluded from a game because he is not trusted not to ninja grab the loot? Well with Individual loot implemented you can party with any old ninja and know you will get your fare share of drops.
1) Only the good loot should be “nametagged /soulbound”.
The rest can fall for anybody to pick up.
2) Good loot should be apportioned according to XP level
A given party consists of a level 55, a 33 and a level 10. Now when the random item generator says a rare has dropped, regardless of who scored the killing blow, a dice equal to 55+33+10 is rolled.
55+33+10=98.
So a 1d98 is rolled. The result is 56.
Now 1-55 would mean the first character, 56 to88 would mean player 2, and 89 to 98 would mean the final character.
So 56 would mean the level 33 character gets an individual loot.
This system would avoid any exploitation of allowing a particular guy, the highest, to do the kills mostly, especially the bosses.
I recall a Dev saying something like:
“We don’t want town portals to be an easy way out, we want combats to be more tense”
Well one solution is…
TPs don’t work if any hostiles mobs or players are nearby
You can justify it by saying TP’s are somehow a psychic field manipulation and hostiles have a disturbing aura that temporarily prevents their function. Graphically, the TP could be left “as is” with the additional effect that when hostiles are neaby, they become discolored or perhaps they waver oddly. Alternately, the TP now appears in the centre of a big glowing circle & pentacle which stops glowing when hostiles are within it’s radius. Implementing this would make it hard to use the TP as a cheap escape and also prevent it’s use to deathtrap other players.
People are individuals, no two are exactly the same. Many of the +affixes that are found on magic items would do just fine on a character sheet. At certain points in their progression, characters should gain a random affix, I mean the effects here, but not the name of the affix (“of kings”).
Game designers have in the past been afraid of this sort of Idea, thinking bots would roll up chars for hours and take only the best. This can be fixed by granting the random traits throughout the character’s life.
So, two level X barbarians, naked would differ. One may have an innate +6% resistance to the cold and mysteriously have 11 more Hit points more than he should, the other has +5% running speed and be surprisingly good with polearms.
Lets just say that at levels 11,22,33,44,55,66,77,88,99 an affix is gained. That would be enough to make characters individual and interesting. Of course some affixes are totally unsuitable for adding onto a character and would have to be omitted from the list and they would all have to be watered down in scale for usage on a character.
Yes I know, there would be bots who would level to 11 and quit if he didn’t roll up exactly the random bonus he wanted. There would also be character who reach level 88 and have all 8 bonuses in a narrow sort of direction which also coincided with his skill choices and he would be freakishly powerful in a single way but overall the game would improve. It is the overall result that is important.
I can’t tell from the videos if this has already been implemented into D3. Some similar games have incorporated this Idea, so I wouldn’t be surprised If it was already in.
In Diablo 2, a glacial spike always hit and yet an zon’s arrows needed a to hit roll that incorporated comparing an Attack rating number versus a Defence rating. Why the difference?
All attacks: Melee, missile & magic should resolve as area attacks with 100% certainty.
That’s right, no misses that run contrary to what the graphic is showing. If a mob is within the area when the attack resolves, it has been hit. This would also lighten the game processes by a step.Some characters and mobs would still have an innate “dodge”, that came with an animation.
Some games use DEX to modify movement speed as in:
1 Dex = +1% movement rate.
I think I’m in favour of ditching it completely as movement rate invariably ends up too good, so it must be capped or some very strange characters will appear who outrun arrows.
1) Red: Heals points equal to 25% of max life points of each character
2) Purple: Heals damage equal to 75% of total damage taken
So if your 100 life point character has taken 25 points of damage, the red globe would heal him to max but a purple would only heal about 16 life. However if he had taken 80 points of damage, the red would still only put him up 25 but the purple would heal him 60 points.
The reasoning for these two types I have proposed is to create an incentive, in certain circumstances to hold back and grab the globe at the last possible moment. This makes for exciting moments of great danger.
The globes heal by refering to a percentage of the character life rather than give a straight up +50, +100, +200 health of healing to encourage and reward a more balanced sort of build. In softcore battlenet, the standard character build is a “glass cannon” with 400-800 hit points, just enough to take a hit and the rest in attack related traits.
The devs said “We wanted to kill that sort of character” (the potion guzzling super leecher) who is the standard hero of hardcore on battlenet. Now let me say, it was the brave and proper way to go. To paraphrase him, the devs wanted to bring back real resource management, which was much of the tension in D1. You can’t do that without two things.
1) Finite resources
2) A real death penalty
Well, number 2 appears weak already based on what Ive seen so that leaves 1. Unlike potions which were plentiful, available from town and barbarians making em, globes are non storable, appear when they like, and perhaps, appear randomly creating drought periods. They can only make this meaningful by having a limited number of globes dropping, and this means the characters will be needing to get a big number of healing each time. They should make it so the “glass cannon” guys may not be getting enough healing to make it in the long run.
If the globes heal a straight up +XYZ rather than a amount based on a percentage of max health, you will see a continuation of the current style which is the "glass cannon" build as the favoured softcore model.
Yes, I say, reward the more balanced builds and not just the glass canons! Bring a serious death penalty to make those guys think about survival seriously, in NM and Hell anyway, normal can be a weenie fest for all I care.
The globes should vanish after a while
It appears the globes are permanent items when they should not be.
Giving them a 60 second lifespan (they start blinking after 55 seconds) would stop encouraging tactics to leave em behind and fight a strange retreating battle with bosses later, picking up the old globes. The devs have just said when you die, you will respawn back a bit, with a bit of health, regerating slowly. If you regen at all, it WILL encourage the encourage lame tactics of leaving the globe and opting to simply sit around regenerating (cause you won't be able to regen with the boss, cause for a start, he will regen just as fast).
Make the globes replenish mana and life
Bosses should get a 100% heal if there are no hostile players in his vicinity, even for a moment.
The devs just said it. When you die, you come back with a bit of health & regen.
Now I dunno all the details but it sounds like they are encouraging the player to just cower a bit after a kill which goes contrary to the spirit of some of what they said in some videos, you know, never ending action blah blah.
Regen for players encourages lame tactics like running around the block.
Regen for monsters has a nasty side effect: it further encourages high attack characters.
Now that does not need any further encouragement!
It is already the holy grail, and will also be in D3 so don't reward em any more!
A high damage character basically ignores monster regen while unusual or suboptimal characters take forever to kill a regenerating boss.
Don’t do it again in D3. Don’t lecture me about poison either, that is a side issue.
In any game where you could stand around in a corner and just regen, resource management was a non issue. It kills much of the tension.
Just make the globes replenish both mana and life and the game will be a game of real resource management. Also, by making this so, the strange hybrid melee/magic builds who were always punished greatly as suboptimal guys become a bit more viable as they expend both HPs and mana to kill foes and will last a bit better this way.
If you want to be kind, a character using a power that burns mana when NO HOSTILE is nearby activates this:
The game still takes the mana cost but also records a “payback number” and slowly regens that mana thinking “well that player either made a typo or he is just looking at the graphic animation”.
A boss should only regen when a player runs to town and exploits some cheapo heal.
I don't think there will be any such opportunity by the sound of things.
It doesn’t appear as if the standard attack in D3 does in fact allow forward mobility during the swing animation. Just like D2, even if you run much faster than the fleeing target, you still stop and swing and unless you are using a super fast weapon, you end up missing and repeating the loop.
In Diablo 2, if you tried to melee strike a fleeing mob or hostile player you hardly ever hit unless you used a special ability like charge. Now this is plainly wrong, fighting men did get hit in the back. If you don’t change it, it will lead to that strange sequence of swing sword while remaining stationary-> miss as the opponent keeps moving forward. Repeart. It did not look too good.
I’m proposing that ordinary melee attacks not interrupt any forward movement until the attack has been completed, and then any applicable delay/recovery be applied after that. It sounds a minor point but you have got to let the melee guy land one more on the fleeing mob or hostile player. It makes a big difference.
The easiest way to implement forward motion with striking is this….
If my barbarian is currently chasing a fleeing mob and I wish to strike then I would click the left mousebuttong while not releasing the right mouse button which controls forward movement (for my favoured configuration anyway).
What the screen would show is, my barb stopping, raising his sword backward, lunging forward as he swings and connects onto the back of the mob. The forward motion during the swing should exceed normal movement speed to make up for the lost ground during the delay. If, during the swing, I take my finger off the right mouse button, the forward motion should also cease. The animation during time when forward motion is combined with a sword swing need not include any footstep animations as simply sliding the barb forward would suffice and look acceptible. After the strike, hit or miss, my barb would be stopped in place for a delay to allow the fleeing mob to gain enough of a lead on me to rule out any possibility of a repeat performance, assuming his movement rate is equal to mine. Alternately, perhaps it would be best if the backswing occur without delaying the forward motion.
I know, abilities like charge exist, but you must allow all character types this ability, one hit in the back. I'm talking every Witchdoctor hitting another fleeing Witchdoctor with a stick in PvP here.
2. No one said the cow level is returning.
3. WoW doesn't even have a skill tree. You are just showing your ignorance. And D3 skill system will only be revealed in the 'future'.
That makes the remaining pile of bullcrap you said completely obsolete since your original premise is based on false statements and ignorance. Your 'hardcore only' Battle.Net idea is so idiotic and painful to read that I can't even describe it. Is any of the things you said even remotely based on lore or common sense for that matter?
1.
as Dimebog said, they started making classes from scratch. The brute melee warrior archetype they were making looked pretty much like the Barbarian and everyone would eventually call him "barb" no matter how Blizzard would name him. So they took the same name instead.
2.
again, there's nothing to make sure the cowlevel will be in the final game. These guys are planning to make things interesting and not to have some "certain" grind spots for the players to level. I highly doubt that even if there is a cowlevel it will be exactly as it was in Diablo 2. Nothing is.
3.
first of all, i dont know how you got that impression. None ever has officially stated anything about the Diablo 3 skill system yet. Unless you suggest that you have a friend whos uncle whos brother whos wife's sister works in Blizzard (that would make things even less certain for us) who told you that its going to be that way, then you cant possibly know for sure either.
But even if it was true, i'd prefer it to the old system where especially in Hell difficulty with the immunities (especially as a caster) couldnt have a viable spec to finish the game on your own.
Specific skills and specific talent lines to make skills more effective would make the game more interesting on the long run.
as a side-note, WoW got the talent lines from Diablo 2, if Diablo 3 gets an "evolved" kind of talent-lines, they're still have their origins in Diablo.
4.
i'm not sure how this works, it barely makes any sense as you describe it.
5.
that would make Battle.net deserted. About 2/3 of the people that used to play on Battle.net played softcore. Still the majority of the people that play online are softcore. There should be at least both modes.
There could be achievements if you manage to finish the game without a death, even in softcore, and special achievements with each difficulty you manage to finish on hardcore.
In any way, that idea would destroy the online experience.
6.
excuse me but thats completely crap.
whats the point of a hardcore mode if you can "buy" more lives? Its Diablo, not Super Mario. In hardcore, when you die, you're dead. In softcore, when you die, you lose xp, maybe gold too but keep playing. Simple as that.
7.
as it is now, there wont be a possibility to random hostile and kill players (at least according to the Lead Game Designer of the game). I dont see the point sacrificing gear for such "protection". Such things would destroy the balance of the game, because people would not only think to get gear for themselves, and whatever they dont need to use they could trade for something useful, but also which gear to sacrifice for protection. Pretty crappy thing to implement if you ask me.
8.
whats the point. considering the "buying lives in hardcore" is something that doesnt suit the game, its less than useful. At least have the thrill to manage and kill the enemies they killed you as you try to regain some of your lost xp and gold. As it will only be availiable in softcore to continue playing after death.
9.
that would completely destroy the game as "co-op".
lets assume that you will go from normal to nightmare at around the same level as in Diablo 2 to have an example here:
i have a friend who is level 35 and wants to get to nightmare but cant manage to kill the end-boss by himself and doesnt want to have to bother looking for other games around. Me on the other hand i'm level 35 too but have killed the final boss the day before. Why shouldn't i be able to help my friend come to nightmare difficulty with me?
and even if we're talking about higher level characters, why shouldnt they be able to help? Maybe add a level limit (no characters before x level can go to nightmare and no character before y level can go to hell) to prevent leeching.
10.
thats actually the one idea that could work out. Well, not exactly as you say it, but still. Like an "Outlaw Mode" in which PK is possible. In fact, its sort of a free for all PvP mode where you can kill monsters or/and people. Grouping should be possible, but there arent any limitations to turning hostile.
11.
as of that, if we would consider this "outlaw mode" there could be some sort of pvp experience bar (very much like what we're seeing in Age of Conan) to give the players that are successfull in "Outlaw Mode" some special titles, or even achievements.
12.
[quote][COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=#dfb579][COLOR=yellow]Morken’s Idea #6: The[/COLOR][COLOR=red]Hellish Hall of Fame[/COLOR][COLOR=yellow]replaces the Ladder[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#dfb579]*When a character kills Hell difficulty Diablo (or whoever is the End boss) he ends existence forever[[/COLOR][/COLOR]/QUOTE]
from all the ideas, thats the worst. Thats the point losing your character after you finish the game? One of the things that kept Diablo and Diablo 2 alive all these years was that you could keep playing, gaining levels/skill points and upgrading your gear.
That would make people lose interest, or force them not to ever kill the final boss. Also, killing the final boss wouldnt give any loots either, since you wouldnt be needing it afterwards.
Just seeing the first 4-5 replies of this thread can give you a good summary of why you are not the lead-dev of diablo 3.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
And yes, the secret cow level is returning: http://www.diablofans.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13704.
I think it's a wonderful idea for the same reason you think it's a bad idea: It's a returning joke between the developers and the gamers. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you don't want to enjoy it, don't.
I understand what ur bringing to the table, but this is not finalfantasyfans.com
Your ideas are not bad... but they're not diablo ideas I.M.O.
The only almost-valid point u have is the first one, about the Barb being re-included.
Which brings me to a previous theory,
The barbarian (the same from D2 we all know), will be an intricate part of D3's storyline, whether u play as him or not.
And...
To have very easily gotten all that out of the way, i say this to you:
"HOW CAN YOU SAY TEAM D3 NEEDS HELP, JUST BY WATCHING A TWELVE MINUTE INTRODUCTION?"
D3 Pros: Outdoors environment, night time environment, female Barbarian, rune spell system, the Wizard class
D3 Cons: Fantasy architecture, fantasy armor, fanstasy weapons, no shaders.
On battlenet, the first 1-5 or so listed games appear as:
Trading town game #1
Trading town game #2
Trading town game #3
Trading town game #4
Trading town game #5
These games can hold much more than 8 or so players because they are just one special scene, no mobs.
This special scene, the data for which is included in the CD so you don’t have to download a anything for.
Now these special trading town scenes of course look different to any other scene in D3.
Some possibilities include a gypsy wagon camp, a town square market scene, a toadstool ring clearing in an enchanted glade etc etc. Get it?
Robiwan
Ok I must admit it, no. I am a toilet cleaner who in my spare time hops from forum to forum trying to pass myself off as an expert in any subject from tractor axles, brain surgery technique to solar powered hats but always eventually someone finds me out and exposes me as an uninformed fake. Today it was you. Hats off to you for spotting this first.
Robiwan
My reponse is, psychology. Lets say I’m very good at intuiting things.
Magistrate
Magistrate, all suggestions/Ideas are exactly that. Preferences.
Murderface, if you are going to speak at all, then points please, not just one liners. Ive noticed lots of your posts are just snide one liners. Get out of the habit. Same with you blizter, say something with substance.
Dimebog, supposing your 3 listed points are spot on concerning my first 3 statements.
Do you think then the remaining Ideas must then be ruled obsolete? I mean do you really think they necessarily depend on the first 3 statements? Or do you think it is possible they have merit without reference to the first 3?
Do you really believe that?
Why don’t you admit the more likely truth that the Barbarian archtype import is there to preserve a link with Diablo2 and serve as a draw, which they sadly felt they could not equal with their own creativity.
It was a vote of no confidence like I said, no?
Why didn’t the D2 team just rename the melee character as “warrior”, figuring everyone would just call him a warrior anyway? Pfffffft Cmon, you don’t believe that explanation.
Fingol effectively that a semi-hardcore experience is “crap”.
Fingol, what is so far fetched with a halfway mode?
you say. Yes yes, it is easy to state the facts of how things are currently anyone can do that, but why exactly is a halfway mode so bad? Simply because it ain’t how things used to be? That seems to be the dogmatic logic you are using, do you think its valid all by itself?
Fingol
Fingol, the point of saccing magic items is this…
It removes them from circulation in the economy, an item sink to fight inflation.
Don’t you think that is a valid point?
Why exactly would it “destroy the balance of the game?”
I suspect you had Noooooo Idea of what you meant by that, I’m challenging you to explain that logic.
In what way would it unbalance? Who or what is benefitting from the tipping of the scales here?
Fingol “whats the point.”- concerning a service to draw your old corpse loot to you.
As explained above, many players when naked, die repeatedly. This is bad news in a world where lives are limited. The service helps them avoid running into “that room full of extra fast, extra strong #$$%%$”.
Fingol
Fingol, if your friend didn’t need you to babysit him on single player on his own PC, then he doesn’t need it on battlenet.
If “he” is such a bosum buddy of yours that you two just can’t stand being apart from each other, then you guys are friends and would have arranged prior to kill normal Diablo together rather than yourself doing it earlier and stranding your weakling mate.
Don’t you think the Pros outweigh the cons here? The Idea I put forward reduces twinking, trading & leading to a decent level doesn’t it?
Fingol
Ok concerning that, I listed an option for the “halls of eternity”, which seems the better way to go. I’ll remind you here that no one is forcing you to go to the hall of fame. It is up to you, you can farm Hell Diablo forever if you want. Don’t you think the option is good? Many people will take it and enter the Hall of fame. It is not a new Idea you know, some games already have it.
Basically you're saying D3 devs are fools, and YOU are going to help them with your Tiger Temple ideas and losing your character forever as a reward for finishing the game. Your stance disgusts me and makes me wonder of your mental capacity to reason.
You are insulting me with your thread title and explanation as to why your thread title is justified. Edit the title and remove the three points, leaving your post with 'fresh' ideas and I won't object a thing.
It's been suggested 4 times by me alone.
Individual loot had better be implemented.
There is hardly a reason not to do it. The strongest reason to do it is for the sake of community. How many times is player XYZ excluded from a game because he is not trusted not to ninja grab the loot? Well with Individual loot implemented you can party with any old ninja and know you will get your fare share of drops.
1) Only the good loot should be “nametagged /soulbound”.
The rest can fall for anybody to pick up.
2) Good loot should be apportioned according to XP level
A given party consists of a level 55, a 33 and a level 10. Now when the random item generator says a rare has dropped, regardless of who scored the killing blow, a dice equal to 55+33+10 is rolled.
55+33+10=98.
So a 1d98 is rolled. The result is 56.
Now 1-55 would mean the first character, 56 to88 would mean player 2, and 89 to 98 would mean the final character.
So 56 would mean the level 33 character gets an individual loot.
This system would avoid any exploitation of allowing a particular guy, the highest, to do the kills mostly, especially the bosses.
Dimebog truly you are an obstinate & inflamatory sort of fellow
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Anyway, people will always find a way to scam people. As easy as making a program saying "FREE LEVELING" " ENTER ACCOUNT NAME, PASS, CDKEY" and people will fall for it. How do you think they set up all those publicities with bots in the channels ?
i didnt state facts ase they are, i simply stated how useless it would be to have such a "halfway" mode it would be. Only the rich (and those that bought stuff for real cash) would manage to run through the game without any issues cause they'd be able to "buy" more lives.
What you suggest is a very good way to make the mode completely uninteresting.
a much more effective way to remove the item from the circulation would be to make it "bound on pickup" or "bound on equip". Worked well before. While nuking stuff to gain even pieces (see Hellgate: London) didnt. Not to mention buying benefits that would even more unbalance the game in the favor of one player against the other.
so, pay in gold/items to accomplish the same thing as a Save & Exit and then re-entering a game?
That you could easily do if your example happened. With no cost. While fighting back to get your corpse/gravestone/whatever they want to have after we die will feel very much like vengeance against the enemy that actually killed you. There's no reason to try to change everything that worked before, simply because its the sequel.
that was an example. To make another one:
how often have you killed Mephisto in Nightmare, after you went to hell difficulty, simply because some of the gear he can drop would be an upgrade?
Grinding isnt fun for some people, but its alot fun for some others. While its also good for people that dont want to have to create characters with no gear at all (applicable mostly online).
There shouldnt be such a restriction because it also reduces the fun factor. I very much liked to smash the enemies in normal/nightmare when my character was overpowered after a certain level. I didnt have to pay too much attention, i simply slaughtered them, which was also fun. The player should have the choice. If you dont want to play on previous difficulties, by all means dont! none forces you to! Besides, the channels of the game did only show you the games of the difficulty you were on. And you could always set a level limit too.
There could/should be some adjustments to the matchmaking part of battle.net but thats a completely different thing.
And no, in general i dont think the pros outweigh the cons here. I'd consider it a pretty useless change.
as an option it might work, but it still doesnt make much sense to me. Personal opinion, though, not trying to argue about it.
as you should have been able to see by now, there's nothing in my posts that in no way i am dogmatic. I was/am ready to accept any good ideas, but to do so they got to be good.
MORKEN: you made the thread. Live with the replies, buddy.
It has just dawned on me some of you have taken it that I thought that the whole list of skills from WOW had been imported into Diablo 3.
This is not so, when I said “Template” what I meant was the skeletal backbone only, ie- skill maxes at 5/10/20. There was no need or advantage to this move, as I saw it, it was a vote of “no confidence” and a valid concern.