A new tidbit about Diablo 3, that at least I hadn't heard before ... Diablo 3 outdoors (exteriors) are not random generated. Only dungeons are. That sounds great to an extent since everyone could memorize and know exactly where you are heading in the world of Sanctuary. Especially when you are with other friends and set a place to rendezvous at. Blizzard wants us to get acquainted with the different lands of Sanctuary.
Among the interview discussion came up that monster encounters are random generated such as Rare and Champions popping up here and there (or mini-bosses as Jay puts it).
Jay wants the outdoor world to be static in contrast with the random generated outdoors in Diablo II. This helps creating a better and unique look, adding objects, doodads, etc. that could be nigh impossible to place in a random generated landscape. More importantly, making a static world outdoor helps greatly the adventure system, and trigger-driven encounters.
Thus far, the interview didn't shed much about Battle.net. Jay said he didn't want to steal that thunder, which definetely means Battle.net 2.0 details will be unveiled at BlizzCon 2008 on October 10th. Diablo 3 in comparison with the other two franchises is the only game that could possibly be translated to Consoles, but currently Blizzard doesn't have the manpower to focus on console porting Diablo 3. Hopefully some time in the future it could make it, but as of now it's just not happening.
Crispy Gamer has a four-pages interview with Jay Wilson discussing the art style, random generation, Console port, and more.
Crispy Gamer: Are the dungeons still going to be randomly generated?
Wilson: Yes, we have a ton of random generation in the game. All the dungeons' layouts are randomly generated. The exteriors are not. We have a new system of adventures that allows us to cut sections out of the terrain to put random -- whatever -- in there. We can put random terrain, we can put in scripted events -- we wanted to add a lot more scripted events into the game.
just trying to beat the negative people who'll go crying about no random outside enviroments, and that it's only dungeons they'll see and that they didn't pay god-knows-what for a computer to fully render "lush 3d outdoor enviroments" when all they're seeing is indoors... but nvm
This is a big negative, and represents another exception to the "If it ain't broke..." rule.
It also shows that this title is more geared to being a big exercise in creating "I.P." for future subscription games than in just being a true sequel to the series.
When you start in the Rogue Encampment, the fact that you could be facing any one of four directions adds a ton to the replayability of the game. Even though the exterior randomness isn't always well done and is always somewhat predictable (and is occasionally just bad, like in the Act 3 jungle), the fact that features of the game like Bloodraven, the Cairn stones, the Tree of Inifuss, etc, are placed somewhat randomly is a big part of the flavor of the experience.
This is a much worse example of WoW-ification than the shoulder pads and rainbows, IMO.
Again this is old news but it doesn't really have a bad side since enemies are still random (as seen from the screenshots) and combined with the new random adventures players still have a unique experience everytime they play outside. As it has been said before it's just to make the outside look more solid and believable.
Also in case some of you don't remember D2 had its share of static areas (e.g. Catacomb lvl4, Durance of hate lvl3, Chaos Sanctuary, Mount Arreat Summit, etc.) and nobody ever gave a mind about the fact it wasn't random.
LOL MD, you've crawled one dungeon too many. You yourself posted that data quite some time ago.
To be fair, I don't think this has been discussed around here very much.
I found it frustrating when I wanted to rush the Tree of Innifus (sp?) for example but I had to hunt the blessed thing down on the random map. And the randomness of the location of the Wp in the Rogue Encampment was VERY annoying.
If Blizz say that the game will be better without a random map (dungeons excluded) then I'll defer to their judgement - I'm not strongly for or against at this stage.
From a canon/lore point of view I can see how having a constant environment layout will add to a feeling of "reality" in the world. It might help a bit with any recorded speech too.
From a dev point of view it will definitely simplify the art process. More attention can be given to details in walls etc and less care need be put into making elements modular. And no effort needs to be put into making grass or tree elements suitably random. Less data needing to be saved as well as no need to record as much random map detail.
Let's be honest, some of the areas in Act 1 of DII just reeked of modularity. A more constant environment with art unique to that very one grid area would have been nicer.
I'm all for concentrating dev resources on what matters most in the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
So we've got over the problem of colour in D3. Great. Now let's argue about everything else not yet set in stone and help make this game simply great! Game on.
I don't know what game you played but the game I loved for the last 8 years was indeed random @ lvl 3 dura, and in catacombs lvl 4.
Catacombs Level 4, Durance of Hate Level 3, Arreat Summit, Arcane Sanctuary, Bloody Foothills, Tal Rasha's Chamber, Chaos Sanctuary, The Worldstone Chamber, and some others are static in that their geographical features and location of doors and such is always the same. However, their monsters are still random. He's right, those dungeons are static and they needed to be, for obvious reasons (E.G. quest triggers, NPC paths, etc.)
And the Rogue Encampment is the only non-static town. I just realized that, lol.
I'm all for concentrating dev resources on what matters most in the game.
And I'm not if it means sacrificing the absolute essence of the series - randomness and the replayability it means.
- Not a single guy from the original "Diablo" Blizzard North team
- Questionable art direction and atmosphere (and the subsequent departure of the AD after the outcry)
- The exact same static world in every game
And it isn't like this means we'll see the game that much sooner. How could a company with a billion dollars in revenue let this happen? Are they intentionally trying to kill the single-player RPG genre to drive more people to WoW? Are fans like us to blame for distracting the hell out of them with endless interviews, conventions, gameplay movies, etc?
And I'm not if it means sacrificing the absolute essence of the series - randomness and the replayability it means.
If only you knew what was the 'absolute essence' of the series.
Quote from "Felthuzad_The_Unclean" »
- Not a single guy from the original "Diablo" Blizzard North team
It's already said that at least one third of Blizz North is in the new D3 team, including essential people such as the lore designer, lead programmer, lead animator, concept artist....
Quote from "Felthuzad_The_Unclean" »
- The exact same static world in every game
Did you know that outside world in Diablo I was absolutely static every time you played? That's because it was a dungeon crawler. Diablo 3 is returning to the spirit of the series by putting the main accent on the actual dungeons, thus they will be completely randomized.
As for the outside worlds, they won't be entirely identical each time but you didn't care to read and understand what was said. Part's of the outside world will still be randomly cut out and replaced with different parts. Sounds better than majority of bland and pointless random squares in D2, where areas which weren't random boasted more detail and vibrance, like Travincal, 5th level of the Forgotten Tower, Andariel's lair, Mephisto's lair... etc.
Another thought on static environment. What did people do in most outdoor areas? They skim the edge of the maps until they found that little passage that leads to the next zone (maiinly true for act 1, 2 and 4). As for the other acts, well they all go in straight line anyway. Looks like randomness of graphics never brought that much to Diablo in most outdoor areas after all. Of course for those who still don't get it chests and enemies are still random along with quests and possibly NPCs.
Diablo 3 outdoors (exteriors) are not random generated. Only dungeons are. That sounds great to an extent since everyone could memorize and know exactly where you are heading in the world of Sanctuary. Especially when you are with other friends and set a place to rendezvous at.
You are right, And I realy love this, it's very smart.
Jay is awesome.
Catacombs Level 4, Durance of Hate Level 3, Arreat Summit, Arcane Sanctuary, Bloody Foothills, Tal Rasha's Chamber, Chaos Sanctuary, The Worldstone Chamber, and some others are static in that their geographical features and location of doors and such is always the same. However, their monsters are still random. He's right, those dungeons are static and they needed to be, for obvious reasons (E.G. quest triggers, NPC paths, etc.)
And the Rogue Encampment is the only non-static town. I just realized that, lol.
You forgot Act 2. The town could either have the entrance near the Mercenary Hiring man, or by Drognan.
A random outdoor enviornment would take away the feeling of an actual world and make each outdoor and indoor area seem like a dungeon. Blood Moor was a maz, Den of Evil was a maze. Coming out into the wilderness didn't make you feel free, only returning to town did that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
this is really starting to get me down... i'm so sick of people complaining about decisions made for diablo 3.
just the other day on this very effing forum some dipsh*t with a siggie about signing that childish petition was going on about 'if it aint broke' bullcrap, he was also going on that he didn't want his armour to change colour like it did in D2.
i'm gonna say this once and then it's goodbye diablofans.com for me. if u want D2, go play D2. D3 is a brand new innovation in the franchise. most of these 'petition guys are going on about what they hate about D3, and that at the same time are complaining about things that were in D2(the armor is one example of many i've seen)
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS Diablo 3 is in 3d. get it in your heads... you can't randomize outdoors in 3d. it'll look insanely stupid and out of place, because ur playing in a field as opposed to a dungeon which is a walkway (now don't say "but d2...") those fields in d2 were all square angled maps. and they were all polygons. "a big box with monsters in it". dont get me wrong i love D2, thats why i'm here... and to see what new innovations come with D3.
I'm sorry if i'm just makin a noise, but screw this... yes yes, you have a right to opinion, but your right to 'diablofan' doesn't really compute for me
(disclaimer: my opinion is directed at all the whiny little boys on this site. Not everyone.)
It's already said that at least one third of Blizz North is in the new D3 team, including essential people such as the lore designer, lead programmer, lead animator, concept artist....
He said "original diablo".NOT diablo 2.There is no one from the team who made "original diablo" in new team You should read carefully and be objective son.
I can see clearly now.The next diablo game (after so called DIII) will be MMORPG and be called "World of Sanctuary"
Copy today's date and my words to your notebook....
They did say in some prehistoric report that small things would be randomly generated in the living world, but I'm guessing with this report that they just meant mobs.
Originally Posted by Digital-Storm You forgot Act 2. The town could either have the entrance near the Mercenary Hiring man, or by Drognan.
Oh, yeah. I could've sworn there was another, it didn't feel right. Thanks
Among the interview discussion came up that monster encounters are random generated such as Rare and Champions popping up here and there (or mini-bosses as Jay puts it).
Jay wants the outdoor world to be static in contrast with the random generated outdoors in Diablo II. This helps creating a better and unique look, adding objects, doodads, etc. that could be nigh impossible to place in a random generated landscape. More importantly, making a static world outdoor helps greatly the adventure system, and trigger-driven encounters.
Thus far, the interview didn't shed much about Battle.net. Jay said he didn't want to steal that thunder, which definetely means Battle.net 2.0 details will be unveiled at BlizzCon 2008 on October 10th. Diablo 3 in comparison with the other two franchises is the only game that could possibly be translated to Consoles, but currently Blizzard doesn't have the manpower to focus on console porting Diablo 3. Hopefully some time in the future it could make it, but as of now it's just not happening.
Crispy Gamer has a four-pages interview with Jay Wilson discussing the art style, random generation, Console port, and more.
http://www.blizzplanet.com
just trying to beat the negative people who'll go crying about no random outside enviroments, and that it's only dungeons they'll see and that they didn't pay god-knows-what for a computer to fully render "lush 3d outdoor enviroments" when all they're seeing is indoors... but nvm
It also shows that this title is more geared to being a big exercise in creating "I.P." for future subscription games than in just being a true sequel to the series.
When you start in the Rogue Encampment, the fact that you could be facing any one of four directions adds a ton to the replayability of the game. Even though the exterior randomness isn't always well done and is always somewhat predictable (and is occasionally just bad, like in the Act 3 jungle), the fact that features of the game like Bloodraven, the Cairn stones, the Tree of Inifuss, etc, are placed somewhat randomly is a big part of the flavor of the experience.
This is a much worse example of WoW-ification than the shoulder pads and rainbows, IMO.
Also in case some of you don't remember D2 had its share of static areas (e.g. Catacomb lvl4, Durance of hate lvl3, Chaos Sanctuary, Mount Arreat Summit, etc.) and nobody ever gave a mind about the fact it wasn't random.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
To be fair, I don't think this has been discussed around here very much.
I found it frustrating when I wanted to rush the Tree of Innifus (sp?) for example but I had to hunt the blessed thing down on the random map. And the randomness of the location of the Wp in the Rogue Encampment was VERY annoying.
If Blizz say that the game will be better without a random map (dungeons excluded) then I'll defer to their judgement - I'm not strongly for or against at this stage.
From a canon/lore point of view I can see how having a constant environment layout will add to a feeling of "reality" in the world. It might help a bit with any recorded speech too.
From a dev point of view it will definitely simplify the art process. More attention can be given to details in walls etc and less care need be put into making elements modular. And no effort needs to be put into making grass or tree elements suitably random. Less data needing to be saved as well as no need to record as much random map detail.
Let's be honest, some of the areas in Act 1 of DII just reeked of modularity. A more constant environment with art unique to that very one grid area would have been nicer.
I'm all for concentrating dev resources on what matters most in the game.
Catacombs Level 4, Durance of Hate Level 3, Arreat Summit, Arcane Sanctuary, Bloody Foothills, Tal Rasha's Chamber, Chaos Sanctuary, The Worldstone Chamber, and some others are static in that their geographical features and location of doors and such is always the same. However, their monsters are still random. He's right, those dungeons are static and they needed to be, for obvious reasons (E.G. quest triggers, NPC paths, etc.)
And the Rogue Encampment is the only non-static town. I just realized that, lol.
And I'm not if it means sacrificing the absolute essence of the series - randomness and the replayability it means.
- Not a single guy from the original "Diablo" Blizzard North team
- Questionable art direction and atmosphere (and the subsequent departure of the AD after the outcry)
- The exact same static world in every game
And it isn't like this means we'll see the game that much sooner. How could a company with a billion dollars in revenue let this happen? Are they intentionally trying to kill the single-player RPG genre to drive more people to WoW? Are fans like us to blame for distracting the hell out of them with endless interviews, conventions, gameplay movies, etc?
It's already said that at least one third of Blizz North is in the new D3 team, including essential people such as the lore designer, lead programmer, lead animator, concept artist....
Did you know that outside world in Diablo I was absolutely static every time you played? That's because it was a dungeon crawler. Diablo 3 is returning to the spirit of the series by putting the main accent on the actual dungeons, thus they will be completely randomized.
As for the outside worlds, they won't be entirely identical each time but you didn't care to read and understand what was said. Part's of the outside world will still be randomly cut out and replaced with different parts. Sounds better than majority of bland and pointless random squares in D2, where areas which weren't random boasted more detail and vibrance, like Travincal, 5th level of the Forgotten Tower, Andariel's lair, Mephisto's lair... etc.
And by the way..
You are right, And I realy love this, it's very smart.
Jay is awesome.
Can't wait till Blizzcon 08'...^_^
You forgot Act 2. The town could either have the entrance near the Mercenary Hiring man, or by Drognan.
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
just the other day on this very effing forum some dipsh*t with a siggie about signing that childish petition was going on about 'if it aint broke' bullcrap, he was also going on that he didn't want his armour to change colour like it did in D2.
i'm gonna say this once and then it's goodbye diablofans.com for me.
if u want D2, go play D2. D3 is a brand new innovation in the franchise. most of these 'petition guys are going on about what they hate about D3, and that at the same time are complaining about things that were in D2(the armor is one example of many i've seen)
MAKE UP YOUR MINDS
Diablo 3 is in 3d. get it in your heads... you can't randomize outdoors in 3d. it'll look insanely stupid and out of place, because ur playing in a field as opposed to a dungeon which is a walkway (now don't say "but d2...") those fields in d2 were all square angled maps. and they were all polygons. "a big box with monsters in it". dont get me wrong i love D2, thats why i'm here... and to see what new innovations come with D3.
I'm sorry if i'm just makin a noise, but screw this... yes yes, you have a right to opinion, but your right to 'diablofan' doesn't really compute for me
(disclaimer: my opinion is directed at all the whiny little boys on this site. Not everyone.)
He said "original diablo".NOT diablo 2.There is no one from the team who made "original diablo" in new team You should read carefully and be objective son.
I can see clearly now.The next diablo game (after so called DIII) will be MMORPG and be called "World of Sanctuary"
Copy today's date and my words to your notebook....
Oh, yeah. I could've sworn there was another, it didn't feel right. Thanks