Not ONCE and I mean ONCE, in my 10+ years of playing Diablo PvP, did I hear 1 person cry for esports, cry for nerfs, cry for buffs. NOT ONCE, do you kids understand this?
Liar.
EDIT: and no ladders, I think.
Says who? Someone who loves PvE.. Go play WoW then. Lot's of cooperation for you there with regularly updated content. Unless the way Diablo is played is changed (beat game, beat an expantion or two) the PvE content will be limited and will be rinse and repeat just like it was in D2. Great the first couple times around, then you move onto bigger and better things about the game. Diablo will always be an end game PvP game to me, NOT a PvE game.
Also zomg, yes it's called PvM in Diablo yet people from Blizzard call it PvE in D3.
Also my point is that they should be setting D3 up to as close as balanced as they possibly can and they should be supporting it with ladders and rankings. I haven't seen any post from Blizzard (may have just missed it, link if there is one) saying they will support PvP passed a mere arena area. Also yeah my post is emotional. It bugs the crap out of me that Blizz isn't supporting a major part of their game the way they should be.
So I am going to rant a bit because this bugs me a lot. PvE people and Blizzard "cough" Jay Wilson "cough". I feel like people who are agaisnt PvP in Diablo didn't even play the game.. It honestly hurts my brain to see people agaisnt PvP in this game. Truly hurts my brain. I can't grasp the concept of hating on something so much when it has literally zero effect on any PvE'ers.. If you don't want to PvP it's very simple. You just don't do it. It makes no logical sense to hate or bash something that doesn't effect you.. I'll say it again. It makes no logical sense. So I am not sure why PvE players care so much that PvP people want Blizzard to back one of the biggest, if not the biggest thing about Diablo 2's endgame. PvP.
Wow, quite a small one you got there mate... does it hurt so much? It's hard to comprehend Blizzard's line of thinking huh!?!
Anyway, to ease your pain even a little, Diablo was originally designed as a PvM game and was just later on upgraded to have PvP.
Besides, PvP would still be in on a later date as a patch, so I don't think you'll have anything more to worry about sonny. Don't rack your brain too much or it might get more painful for you "to see people against PvP in this game".
Here is the Blizzard Blue Poster post last March 9, 2012:
As we’re counting down the days until we’re ready to announce a release date for Diablo III, we’ve come to realize that the PvP game and systems aren’t yet living up to our standards. Today, we wanted to let you know that we’ve made the difficult decision to hold back the PvP Arena system and release it in a patch following the game’s launch. After a lot of consideration and discussion, we ultimately felt that delaying the whole game purely for PvP would just be punishing to everyone who’s waiting to enjoy the campaign and core solo/co-op content, all of which is just about complete.
While we work on making sure PvP lives up to its full potential, we hope you’ll find some consolation in the fact that soon, you’ll be having a blast leveling characters, finding items, learning the classes, and perfecting builds…and that when the Arenas do arrive, you’ll be all the better prepared for battle.
When the PvP patch is ultimately ready, it will add multiple Arena maps with themed locations and layouts, PvP-centric achievements, and a matchmaking system that will help you and your team get into fairly matched games quickly and easily. We’ll also be adding a personal progression system that will reward you for successfully bashing in the other team’s skulls.
We know a lot of you are looking forward to PvP, and we’ll be focusing our post-launch efforts on making sure the Arenas are as brutal, bloody, fast-paced, and awesome as we know they can be. In the meantime, we’re in the process of putting the finishing touches on what we think is a truly epic campaign and co-op experience for launch.
We’ll have a lot more info to share on the PvP system in the future, and we look forward to the moment we can get the game into your hands.
.
There's the quote I was looking for that I didn't see. Still.. I'll believe it when I see it myself how they handle PvP. I watched Jay Wilsons interview and did he ever seem to dislike PvP in a big way. "over my dead body" was the quote that gets me from that interview which gives me little faith they will do PvP right.
Hi, I am part of the PvE jerk club. As far as I am concerned PvP doesn't belong in these types of games, and i will tell you why. First, PvP does not drive content, and it does not drive the lore. Therefore, in my opinion, it is a waste of time for developers. Second, having to constantly rebalance skills to make them scale right for both play styles, is another development waste. Third, developing PvP for a game like this caters to a very small % of the players that will buy this game, because any PvPer worth his salt is playing Modern Warfare, which is developed almost solely for it's PvP content (this is an example of a game where PvP drives the content). In short I am a fan of Diablo not PvP, and i personally would prefer the game developers work on the next expansion for the game rather than making PvP content that has never been a big part of the Diablo series anyway.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"There comes a time, thief, when the jewels cease to sparkle, gold looses it's luster, and the throne room becomes a prison" -King Osric
holding personal subjective opinions for facts = the worst kind
pvp being the major focus of d2 endgame? Some people might have done that, but there were NO system in place to support it.
It was mostly hackers going around pking, and a niche group of players who dueled with builds requiring to press 1 button.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can see what you see not. Vision milky, then eyes rot.
When you turn, they will be gone. Whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be. Shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind. Cast down into the Halls of the Blind
Ok OP, I didn't read the whole thread in-depth...but it seems to be the same thing being said that I've posted responses to many times. I think there are 3-4 threads at the top of this forum that pretty much are saying the same thing and you seemingly ignore all of them and post the same thing again...
Now, that said, I'm a PvE jerk...but it doesn't mean I won't actually play PvP. In fact, Blizzards new model for PvP is something that me and many other 'PvE jerks' will actually make use of as opposed to some form of eSport PvP. Now you'll go and complain that Diablo 3 PvP needs to have eSport features to be fun and my response is just 'tough'. The hardcore (elitist) PvP cowd is a minor group and shouldn't be catered to over the much larger group of casual PvE players that will likely play some of the new casual PvP because its fun and designed with them in mind.
As Jay Wilson said in his interview, adding eSport features such as ranking and such creates an expected obligation to balance the game as such. Since you obviously haven't actually studied what it takes to develop games and handle balance, let me tell you a few things...Since each class in Diablo has something like 6billion combinations of abilities, balancing at an eSport level would be a nightmare at minimum (potentially impossible). If you want an example of why, take a look at WoW PvP. Each character has around 40~ abilities each, and the game continually goes through constant revisions to attempt to create a PvP balance. This requires a team dedicated specifically to balancing around PvP and takes up a lot development resources.
So, you're essentially expecting Blizzard to assign an entire team of designers, artists, and developers to continually balance PvP at an eSport level. You're expecting this in order to cater to the minority that is the elitist PvP'ers over catering to the majority of their players by offering a casual PvP system like they are and then working on more PvE content.
I'm sorry, but that kind of expectation is just unreasonable...especially at this point in the game's development. The game was designed around making PvE extremely fun and all abilities, items, etc are based on that idea. To expect them to completely alter the design of the game to cater to an eSport level of PvP that will not likely be enjoyed by the majority of their players is unrealistic.
This is just the reality...Diablo 3 is a single player online hack and slash RPG that you can play with friends. It'll have a casual PvP system for people to mess around with friends, but it isn't the focus of the game and if you cannot enjoy it without eSport PvP....don't buy the game.
I stopped reading the second you said PVP doesnt affect PVE at all. If you dont understand the relationship between them and what it takes to have cohesive balance in a game, then nothing even needs to be said about the issue, since you are incapable even perceiving the actual issue.
PvPers are so unmannered and close-minded. No1 is "against" pvp, but most people (including Blizzard) understand that PvE is more important part of the game.
Arenas ruined WoW for the 90% not interested in competitive PvP, they should have sticked with battlegrounds. If they start balancing Diablo 3 around PvP the game will be ruined.
Second, potentially farming entire acts (not a boss like in D2) over and over is repetitive, but fighting 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 in an arena for hours on end is not!?
OP you need to relax, take a deep breath, frustrated pissed off kids never grow up very well.
I stopped reading the second you said PVP doesnt affect PVE at all. If you dont understand the relationship between them and what it takes to have cohesive balance in a game, then nothing even needs to be said about the issue, since you are incapable even perceiving the actual issue.
They can balanced them individually though.. Jay Wilson showed off his little tool that says hey here's how we can balance for PvP while it doesn't effect PvE! Skill wise yes. Some skills will be harder to balance for PvP because they're ment to be PvE abilities. I get that. Does that make supporting PvP in Diablo impossible or unable to happen what so ever? Of course not. There's so many skills it wouldn't be hard to limit some of them in PvP for the sake of balance. It's nonsense to claim that it's too hard to balance for both in a game like Diablo because..
NEWS FLASH
This isn't WoW. This isn't a game with never ending content. There won't be endless item updates on brand new bosses every patch. It will be a set amount of abilities and items for the most part (prolly a couple patches that introduce some new items) but other then that the game will stay the same for very long periods of time. Unless there's an expantion, and there most likely will be one or two of them, the game will eventually hit a state where nothing else is going on. Why em I talking about this? Because this is a Limited PvE game. Yes a limited PvE game. You beat the game and the storylines done. You then kill shit for items. You then trade those items. If you don't like PvP the game then stops there for you and you can go off and be happy killing the same bosses over and over again and trading for loot or you can go PvP and truly master your character.
PvP does work in this game and CAN be balanced for BECAUSE it's not WoW and you PvE people don't seem to get that. The game will hit a state many times over in where nothings going on but MFing / Trading and PvP. The game will ultimately end up in this state where Blizzard will go "Well what do we do now? I guess we can balance for PvP"
Unless they plan on making expantion after expantion with endless PvE content then I guess you PvE'ers would be right that PvP doesn't have a place in D3 because that's the only case where it wouldn't work for PvP just like it didn't work in WoW. If that isn't the case though and D3 will ultimately have a complete game and storyline then PvP will be the ultimate end game goal as it was in D2 and it should be supported, and balanced for or they're just hindering their game.
You gotta realize that the Diablo series is a PvM action RPG. They took out pvp for now so that the game can come out. I'm not sure if you've played the first 2 diablo, but I've seen a lot of new people asking loads of questions about Diablo 3 and some of them expect this game to be like WoW. Gotta release when arena was introduce to WoW, Blizzard balanced out PvP a lot and kinda killed PvE because they had to adjust to what spells were buffed and nerfed. Ironically, I would like to PvP in Diablo 3 but I don't want it to affect PvM, just cause a lot of juveniles will complain a lot how OP one spell or class is.
Arenas ruined WoW for the 90% not interested in competitive PvP, they should have sticked with battlegrounds. If they start balancing Diablo 3 around PvP the game will be ruined.
Second, potentially farming entire acts (not a boss like in D2) over and over is repetitive, but fighting 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 in an arena for hours on end is not!?
OP you need to relax, take a deep breath, frustrated pissed off kids never grow up very well.
This isn't WoW. Again. This game isn't WoW. All you WoW PvE only players are so caught up on that. PVP RUINED WOW! No it didn't. I raided for 4-5 years and PvPed as well. Some loot spilled over into PvE and into PvP but it was far from ruining that game. Blizz ruined the game by themselfs by making it so kiddy PvE friendly. WoW stopped being fun and worth playing at the end of BC for me as the content just wasn't as good anymore. I ran an entire PvE guild. I loved PvE a lot too but I also enjoy PvP and would like to have both in the D3. You don't have to only balance for PvP and once again, they have a tool where they can balance PvP and PvE seperatly. I would like the D2 experience I had in D3. I would like to enjoy PvE and PvP side by side like I did in D2.
PvE jerk. You need to broaden your horizons as narrow minded people don't see very much. PvP is good for the game even if you don't see that.
I've always enjoyed people who start off their arguements with an insult. Why? Because then it means I don't have to read the rest their post. Starting off with "you're an idiot" followed by 3 paragraphs MOST of the time translates into "my OPINION > Your opinion". Cause that's what all of your posts have been in this thread. Also i'm not sure why your complaining about it and saying they're neglecting it. PvP is getting put into the game post release and my assumption is that when they do release it, it will be great. I for one would rather start play D3 in May than wait for them to sort out PvP
They can balanced them individually though.. Jay Wilson showed off his little tool that says hey here's how we can balance for PvP while it doesn't effect PvE! Skill wise yes. Some skills will be harder to balance for PvP because they're ment to be PvE abilities. I get that. Does that make supporting PvP in Diablo impossible or unable to happen what so ever? Of course not. There's so many skills it wouldn't be hard to limit some of them in PvP for the sake of balance. It's nonsense to claim that it's too hard to balance for both in a game like Diablo because..
NEWS FLASH
This isn't WoW. This isn't a game with never ending content. There won't be endless item updates on brand new bosses every patch. It will be a set amount of abilities and items for the most part (prolly a couple patches that introduce some new items) but other then that the game will stay the same for very long periods of time. Unless there's an expantion, and there most likely will be one or two of them, the game will eventually hit a state where nothing else is going on. Why em I talking about this? Because this is a Limited PvE game. Yes a limited PvE game. You beat the game and the storylines done. You then kill shit for items. You then trade those items. If you don't like PvP the game then stops there for you and you can go off and be happy killing the same bosses over and over again and trading for loot or you can go PvP and truly master your character.
PvP does work in this game and CAN be balanced for BECAUSE it's not WoW and you PvE people don't seem to get that. The game will hit a state many times over in where nothings going on but MFing / Trading and PvP. The game will ultimately end up in this state where Blizzard will go "Well what do we do now? I guess we can balance for PvP"
Unless they plan on making expantion after expantion with endless PvE content then I guess you PvE'ers would be right that PvP doesn't have a place in D3 because that's the only case where it wouldn't work for PvP just like it didn't work in WoW. If that isn't the case though and D3 will ultimately have a complete game and storyline then PvP will be the ultimate end game goal as it was in D2 and it should be supported, and balanced for or they're just hindering their game.
There are inherent issues with them balancing for PvP, specifically abilities like 'Corpse Spiders' have issues when you can literally surround an enemy with so many spiders they cannot move. There are many abilities in Diablo 3 that when used against single targets end up very powerful. Reworking these for PvP would involve changing how the ability works quite a bit, creating a situation where the same character plays quite differently in PvP vs PvE. That kind of situation is bad for the majority of their players (casuals) as they don't want their characters to play differently. They want to just have fun in PvP on the side, using their PvE skill to goof off in PvP.
Another issue with balancing for eSport level PvP I've already mentioned and you completely ignored...resources. Blizzard has a limited team working on Diablo 3. You're expecting them to dedicate the team to PvP over PvE when the entire design of the game is centered on the story and PvE game? They are already going to be dedicating the few months after launch to implementing the arena system, but eSport level balance would require a team constantly adjusting abilities to tune them. That would severely impact the development of new PvE features, expansions, monthly PvE content, etc. That is why 'PvE jerks' don't want PvP to be the focus. Its not what the game was designed around, its not what the majority of the players buy the game for, and we don't want it to drive the development of the game.
Maybe 4-5 years from now when expansion and monthly content has been exhausted they could focus more on PvP. However, by that time a new game will likely have come out with more of a focus on PvP instead. Diablo 3 isn't a game revolving around PvP. Blizzard doesn't want it to be and its fans don't want it to be. Deal with it, or don't buy the game...its very simple.
Shocking news flash! A third iteration of a game that has always been about going into dungeons and killing monsters/bosses is still primarily about going into dungeons and killing monsters/bosses!
You gotta realize that the Diablo series is a PvM action RPG. They took out pvp for now so that the game can come out. I'm not sure if you've played the first 2 diablo, but I've seen a lot of new people asking loads of questions about Diablo 3 and some of them expect this game to be like WoW. Gotta release when arena was introduce to WoW, Blizzard balanced out PvP a lot and kinda killed PvE because they had to adjust to what spells were buffed and nerfed. Ironically, I would like to PvP in Diablo 3 but I don't want it to affect PvM, just cause a lot of juveniles will complain a lot how OP one spell or class is.
You guys aren't understanding me. I even say in my OP that I like PvE a lot, yet I don't believe that's the only thing to the game.
10:55 watch him talk about how they have a system that doesn't effect PvE when they balance for PvP and vicse versa. THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO BOTH. Yet they just won't do it is why I am so upset about this.
I do not want this to be a 100% PvP focused game. I love the other aspects of the game as well. I do however think PvP is a large part of the end game for Diablo and should be supported, balanced for, and given a lot more attention.
This isn't WoW. Again. This game isn't WoW. All you WoW PvE only players are so caught up on that. PVP RUINED WOW! No it didn't. I raided for 4-5 years and PvPed as well. Some loot spilled over into PvE and into PvP but it was far from ruining that game. Blizz ruined the game by themselfs by making it so kiddy PvE friendly. WoW stopped being fun and worth playing at the end of BC for me as the content just wasn't as good anymore. I ran an entire PvE guild. I loved PvE a lot too but I also enjoy PvP and would like to have both in the D3. You don't have to only balance for PvP and once again, they have a tool where they can balance PvP and PvE seperatly. I would like the D2 experience I had in D3. I would like to enjoy PvE and PvP side by side like I did in D2.
PvE jerk. You need to broaden your horizons as narrow minded people don't see very much. PvP is good for the game even if you don't see that.
PvP will NEVER EVER be balanced in ANY game if there is gear involved. It just won't. Is it a fun little minigame you can dabble in from time to time? Yes. Is it the be all end all of endgame? Hell no
You want the pvp experience you had in D2? You will, only better. D2 pvp was awful.
You will get a proper pvp setting, for the first time in any diablo game, and you still just whine, whine, whine.
There will be a multitude of builds you will face and team up with. Unlike in D2 where it was no structure, and only a few builds that dominated because the other player couldnt get to you
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can see what you see not. Vision milky, then eyes rot.
When you turn, they will be gone. Whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be. Shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind. Cast down into the Halls of the Blind
Ok OP, I didn't read the whole thread in-depth...but it seems to be the same thing being said that I've posted responses to many times. I think there are 3-4 threads at the top of this forum that pretty much are saying the same thing and you seemingly ignore all of them and post the same thing again...
Now, that said, I'm a PvE jerk...but it doesn't mean I won't actually play PvP. In fact, Blizzards new model for PvP is something that me and many other 'PvE jerks' will actually make use of as opposed to some form of eSport PvP. Now you'll go and complain that Diablo 3 PvP needs to have eSport features to be fun and my response is just 'tough'. The hardcore (elitist) PvP cowd is a minor group and shouldn't be catered to over the much larger group of casual PvE players that will likely play some of the new casual PvP because its fun and designed with them in mind.
As Jay Wilson said in his interview, adding eSport features such as ranking and such creates an expected obligation to balance the game as such. Since you obviously haven't actually studied what it takes to develop games and handle balance, let me tell you a few things...Since each class in Diablo has something like 6billion combinations of abilities, balancing at an eSport level would be a nightmare at minimum (potentially impossible). If you want an example of why, take a look at WoW PvP. Each character has around 40~ abilities each, and the game continually goes through constant revisions to attempt to create a PvP balance. This requires a team dedicated specifically to balancing around PvP and takes up a lot development resources.
So, you're essentially expecting Blizzard to assign an entire team of designers, artists, and developers to continually balance PvP at an eSport level. You're expecting this in order to cater to the minority that is the elitist PvP'ers over catering to the majority of their players by offering a casual PvP system like they are and then working on more PvE content.
I'm sorry, but that kind of expectation is just unreasonable...especially at this point in the game's development. The game was designed around making PvE extremely fun and all abilities, items, etc are based on that idea. To expect them to completely alter the design of the game to cater to an eSport level of PvP that will not likely be enjoyed by the majority of their players is unrealistic.
This is just the reality...Diablo 3 is a single player online hack and slash RPG that you can play with friends. It'll have a casual PvP system for people to mess around with friends, but it isn't the focus of the game and if you cannot enjoy it without eSport PvP....don't buy the game.
I feel like you didn't actually read my post at all and think that just because I said the word eSport once you're basing your entire arguement off that. I don't care if it's not an eSport I merely stated if it became one it would actually benifit the game.
I want support for it. I want a ladder. I want some balance changes to make it more on the fair side when I do it. It doesn't have to be perfect. I never said that. I just want the game to be supported in one of its major aspects which is PvP. You can claim otherwise but I honestly don't know a single soul that played Diablo 2 just for the PvE content only. I went onto play a few mods after D2 to get more PvE content and loved it, it was awesome. Everyone else who played D2 played it exactly the same way I did with PvP in their minds for the end game. Literally. NO ONE I KNOW, thousands of people I've met online from game to game when I talk to them ever say. "Man doing Baal runs over and over again was by far the best part of the game!" because everyone knows that it wasn't. Grinding sucks, who likes grinding? What do you do once you beat the game is rinse and repeat only to get loot.
Also I don't think having a ladder is such a bad thing. People will get the wrong idea? Jay says it himself people will already be expecting / trying to make the game an eSport anyways so adding a ladder for people who don't care about it being an eSport and just wanna try and see if they can climb the ladder can do it. I mean if they're gonna ignore an entire community anyways I don't see the harm in adding a ladder to appease us. That's all I want. I want to be able to climb the ladder with my friends for fun, nothing more.
Arenas ruined WoW for the 90% not interested in competitive PvP, they should have sticked with battlegrounds. If they start balancing Diablo 3 around PvP the game will be ruined.
Second, potentially farming entire acts (not a boss like in D2) over and over is repetitive, but fighting 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 in an arena for hours on end is not!?
OP you need to relax, take a deep breath, frustrated pissed off kids never grow up very well.
Im sorry but what? You seriously cannot compare scripted albeit random events to playing against multiple thinking, strategising humans. And this is coming from someone who is super exited to farm loot explore and unveil the storyline.
No kidding. There's a reason sporting events or rather sports in general get so much attention it's because despite the game being the same it's a new game every single time. PvE only people don't understand it apparently.
I feel like you didn't actually read my post at all and think that just because I said the word eSport once you're basing your entire arguement off that. I don't care if it's not an eSport I merely stated if it became one it would actually benifit the game.
I want support for it. I want a ladder. I want some balance changes to make it more on the fair side when I do it. It doesn't have to be perfect. I never said that. I just want the game to be supported in one of its major aspects which is PvP. You can claim otherwise but I honestly don't know a single soul that played Diablo 2 just for the PvE content only. I went onto play a few mods after D2 to get more PvE content and loved it, it was awesome. Everyone else who played D2 played it exactly the same way I did with PvP in their minds for the end game. Literally. NO ONE I KNOW, thousands of people I've met online from game to game when I talk to them ever say. "Man doing Baal runs over and over again was by far the best part of the game!" because everyone knows that it wasn't. Grinding sucks, who likes grinding? What do you do once you beat the game is rinse and repeat only to get loot.
Also I don't think having a ladder is such a bad thing. People will get the wrong idea? Jay says it himself people will already be expecting / trying to make the game an eSport anyways so adding a ladder for people who don't care about it being an eSport and just wanna try and see if they can climb the ladder can do it. I mean if they're gonna ignore an entire community anyways I don't see the harm in adding a ladder to appease us. That's all I want. I want to be able to climb the ladder with my friends for fun, nothing more.
I feel like you haven't read any of my posts, here or in the other threads where I've been saying the same thing. Adding eSport features to a non-eSport game gives people the expectation of eSport level balance, gameplay, etc. This is coming directly from Jay Wilson. There will not be ladder, rankings, etc...because doing so would give people the idea that Blizzard would also give them that level of balance as well. Giving them that level of balance would effect the development of other aspects of the game's development. They'd have less resources for expansion content, monthly content, support, etc.
You also keep saying that PvP is a major aspect of the Diablo series. That is completely in your mind (and others like you). The Diablo series has ALWAYS been about the story and destroying the minions of hell. Multiplayer has been a kinda add-on so you can play and trade with others. PvP has been just an after thought. Now, they are actually adding an established arena so that people have a structured place to fight other players and a matchmaking system to make it easy to find people to bash. It won't be amazingly balanced, ranked, etc..but it will likely be very fun.
Says who? Someone who loves PvE.. Go play WoW then. Lot's of cooperation for you there with regularly updated content. Unless the way Diablo is played is changed (beat game, beat an expantion or two) the PvE content will be limited and will be rinse and repeat just like it was in D2. Great the first couple times around, then you move onto bigger and better things about the game. Diablo will always be an end game PvP game to me, NOT a PvE game.
Also zomg, yes it's called PvM in Diablo yet people from Blizzard call it PvE in D3.
Also my point is that they should be setting D3 up to as close as balanced as they possibly can and they should be supporting it with ladders and rankings. I haven't seen any post from Blizzard (may have just missed it, link if there is one) saying they will support PvP passed a mere arena area. Also yeah my post is emotional. It bugs the crap out of me that Blizz isn't supporting a major part of their game the way they should be.
There's the quote I was looking for that I didn't see. Still.. I'll believe it when I see it myself how they handle PvP. I watched Jay Wilsons interview and did he ever seem to dislike PvP in a big way. "over my dead body" was the quote that gets me from that interview which gives me little faith they will do PvP right.
pvp being the major focus of d2 endgame? Some people might have done that, but there were NO system in place to support it.
It was mostly hackers going around pking, and a niche group of players who dueled with builds requiring to press 1 button.
Now, that said, I'm a PvE jerk...but it doesn't mean I won't actually play PvP. In fact, Blizzards new model for PvP is something that me and many other 'PvE jerks' will actually make use of as opposed to some form of eSport PvP. Now you'll go and complain that Diablo 3 PvP needs to have eSport features to be fun and my response is just 'tough'. The hardcore (elitist) PvP cowd is a minor group and shouldn't be catered to over the much larger group of casual PvE players that will likely play some of the new casual PvP because its fun and designed with them in mind.
As Jay Wilson said in his interview, adding eSport features such as ranking and such creates an expected obligation to balance the game as such. Since you obviously haven't actually studied what it takes to develop games and handle balance, let me tell you a few things...Since each class in Diablo has something like 6billion combinations of abilities, balancing at an eSport level would be a nightmare at minimum (potentially impossible). If you want an example of why, take a look at WoW PvP. Each character has around 40~ abilities each, and the game continually goes through constant revisions to attempt to create a PvP balance. This requires a team dedicated specifically to balancing around PvP and takes up a lot development resources.
So, you're essentially expecting Blizzard to assign an entire team of designers, artists, and developers to continually balance PvP at an eSport level. You're expecting this in order to cater to the minority that is the elitist PvP'ers over catering to the majority of their players by offering a casual PvP system like they are and then working on more PvE content.
I'm sorry, but that kind of expectation is just unreasonable...especially at this point in the game's development. The game was designed around making PvE extremely fun and all abilities, items, etc are based on that idea. To expect them to completely alter the design of the game to cater to an eSport level of PvP that will not likely be enjoyed by the majority of their players is unrealistic.
This is just the reality...Diablo 3 is a single player online hack and slash RPG that you can play with friends. It'll have a casual PvP system for people to mess around with friends, but it isn't the focus of the game and if you cannot enjoy it without eSport PvP....don't buy the game.
Second, potentially farming entire acts (not a boss like in D2) over and over is repetitive, but fighting 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 in an arena for hours on end is not!?
OP you need to relax, take a deep breath, frustrated pissed off kids never grow up very well.
They can balanced them individually though.. Jay Wilson showed off his little tool that says hey here's how we can balance for PvP while it doesn't effect PvE! Skill wise yes. Some skills will be harder to balance for PvP because they're ment to be PvE abilities. I get that. Does that make supporting PvP in Diablo impossible or unable to happen what so ever? Of course not. There's so many skills it wouldn't be hard to limit some of them in PvP for the sake of balance. It's nonsense to claim that it's too hard to balance for both in a game like Diablo because..
NEWS FLASH
This isn't WoW. This isn't a game with never ending content. There won't be endless item updates on brand new bosses every patch. It will be a set amount of abilities and items for the most part (prolly a couple patches that introduce some new items) but other then that the game will stay the same for very long periods of time. Unless there's an expantion, and there most likely will be one or two of them, the game will eventually hit a state where nothing else is going on. Why em I talking about this? Because this is a Limited PvE game. Yes a limited PvE game. You beat the game and the storylines done. You then kill shit for items. You then trade those items. If you don't like PvP the game then stops there for you and you can go off and be happy killing the same bosses over and over again and trading for loot or you can go PvP and truly master your character.
PvP does work in this game and CAN be balanced for BECAUSE it's not WoW and you PvE people don't seem to get that. The game will hit a state many times over in where nothings going on but MFing / Trading and PvP. The game will ultimately end up in this state where Blizzard will go "Well what do we do now? I guess we can balance for PvP"
Unless they plan on making expantion after expantion with endless PvE content then I guess you PvE'ers would be right that PvP doesn't have a place in D3 because that's the only case where it wouldn't work for PvP just like it didn't work in WoW. If that isn't the case though and D3 will ultimately have a complete game and storyline then PvP will be the ultimate end game goal as it was in D2 and it should be supported, and balanced for or they're just hindering their game.
This isn't WoW. Again. This game isn't WoW. All you WoW PvE only players are so caught up on that. PVP RUINED WOW! No it didn't. I raided for 4-5 years and PvPed as well. Some loot spilled over into PvE and into PvP but it was far from ruining that game. Blizz ruined the game by themselfs by making it so kiddy PvE friendly. WoW stopped being fun and worth playing at the end of BC for me as the content just wasn't as good anymore. I ran an entire PvE guild. I loved PvE a lot too but I also enjoy PvP and would like to have both in the D3. You don't have to only balance for PvP and once again, they have a tool where they can balance PvP and PvE seperatly. I would like the D2 experience I had in D3. I would like to enjoy PvE and PvP side by side like I did in D2.
PvE jerk. You need to broaden your horizons as narrow minded people don't see very much. PvP is good for the game even if you don't see that.
There are inherent issues with them balancing for PvP, specifically abilities like 'Corpse Spiders' have issues when you can literally surround an enemy with so many spiders they cannot move. There are many abilities in Diablo 3 that when used against single targets end up very powerful. Reworking these for PvP would involve changing how the ability works quite a bit, creating a situation where the same character plays quite differently in PvP vs PvE. That kind of situation is bad for the majority of their players (casuals) as they don't want their characters to play differently. They want to just have fun in PvP on the side, using their PvE skill to goof off in PvP.
Another issue with balancing for eSport level PvP I've already mentioned and you completely ignored...resources. Blizzard has a limited team working on Diablo 3. You're expecting them to dedicate the team to PvP over PvE when the entire design of the game is centered on the story and PvE game? They are already going to be dedicating the few months after launch to implementing the arena system, but eSport level balance would require a team constantly adjusting abilities to tune them. That would severely impact the development of new PvE features, expansions, monthly PvE content, etc. That is why 'PvE jerks' don't want PvP to be the focus. Its not what the game was designed around, its not what the majority of the players buy the game for, and we don't want it to drive the development of the game.
Maybe 4-5 years from now when expansion and monthly content has been exhausted they could focus more on PvP. However, by that time a new game will likely have come out with more of a focus on PvP instead. Diablo 3 isn't a game revolving around PvP. Blizzard doesn't want it to be and its fans don't want it to be. Deal with it, or don't buy the game...its very simple.
WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE?!
You guys aren't understanding me. I even say in my OP that I like PvE a lot, yet I don't believe that's the only thing to the game.
10:55 watch him talk about how they have a system that doesn't effect PvE when they balance for PvP and vicse versa. THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO BOTH. Yet they just won't do it is why I am so upset about this.
I do not want this to be a 100% PvP focused game. I love the other aspects of the game as well. I do however think PvP is a large part of the end game for Diablo and should be supported, balanced for, and given a lot more attention.
PvP will NEVER EVER be balanced in ANY game if there is gear involved. It just won't. Is it a fun little minigame you can dabble in from time to time? Yes. Is it the be all end all of endgame? Hell no
You want the pvp experience you had in D2? You will, only better. D2 pvp was awful.
You will get a proper pvp setting, for the first time in any diablo game, and you still just whine, whine, whine.
There will be a multitude of builds you will face and team up with. Unlike in D2 where it was no structure, and only a few builds that dominated because the other player couldnt get to you
I feel like you didn't actually read my post at all and think that just because I said the word eSport once you're basing your entire arguement off that. I don't care if it's not an eSport I merely stated if it became one it would actually benifit the game.
I want support for it. I want a ladder. I want some balance changes to make it more on the fair side when I do it. It doesn't have to be perfect. I never said that. I just want the game to be supported in one of its major aspects which is PvP. You can claim otherwise but I honestly don't know a single soul that played Diablo 2 just for the PvE content only. I went onto play a few mods after D2 to get more PvE content and loved it, it was awesome. Everyone else who played D2 played it exactly the same way I did with PvP in their minds for the end game. Literally. NO ONE I KNOW, thousands of people I've met online from game to game when I talk to them ever say. "Man doing Baal runs over and over again was by far the best part of the game!" because everyone knows that it wasn't. Grinding sucks, who likes grinding? What do you do once you beat the game is rinse and repeat only to get loot.
Also I don't think having a ladder is such a bad thing. People will get the wrong idea? Jay says it himself people will already be expecting / trying to make the game an eSport anyways so adding a ladder for people who don't care about it being an eSport and just wanna try and see if they can climb the ladder can do it. I mean if they're gonna ignore an entire community anyways I don't see the harm in adding a ladder to appease us. That's all I want. I want to be able to climb the ladder with my friends for fun, nothing more.
No kidding. There's a reason sporting events or rather sports in general get so much attention it's because despite the game being the same it's a new game every single time. PvE only people don't understand it apparently.
Hush now, this isn't a place for logic, just sit back and enjoy the show, like any reasonable person would.
I feel like you haven't read any of my posts, here or in the other threads where I've been saying the same thing. Adding eSport features to a non-eSport game gives people the expectation of eSport level balance, gameplay, etc. This is coming directly from Jay Wilson. There will not be ladder, rankings, etc...because doing so would give people the idea that Blizzard would also give them that level of balance as well. Giving them that level of balance would effect the development of other aspects of the game's development. They'd have less resources for expansion content, monthly content, support, etc.
You also keep saying that PvP is a major aspect of the Diablo series. That is completely in your mind (and others like you). The Diablo series has ALWAYS been about the story and destroying the minions of hell. Multiplayer has been a kinda add-on so you can play and trade with others. PvP has been just an after thought. Now, they are actually adding an established arena so that people have a structured place to fight other players and a matchmaking system to make it easy to find people to bash. It won't be amazingly balanced, ranked, etc..but it will likely be very fun.