The way the Talisman was introduced did seem rather shallow, and since you weren't sacrificing inventory space for extra buffs, it just became a requirement.
It's as much of a requirement as other gear slots.I don't get this argument. Why were charms held to a higher standard than other pieces of gear?
Why were they held to a higher standard? Easy.
In D2, Charms offered great buffs to stats and skills, ALMOST for free. All you have to do is hold them in your pack and you get stronger. Thing is, even with an empty inventory, pack space in D2 was friggin minimal. So while it seemed like free buffs, the fact that Diablo has always been a LOOT HUNT, and Charms directly impeded that...was kinda flawed in design. On paper, it made a lot of sense, but in implementation, it was a royal pain in the ass. Thus, if you really wanted to carry around Charms, you either had to get the right shaped ones, or even choose to bother with it at all.
Early on, the D3 devs made a lot of easy evolutions in systems. Perfect example...Town Portal Scrolls and ID scrolls. GONE. Mainly because people in D2 never ran out. There was no point in carrying them around, because they were either so cheap to buy regularly, or so abundant from drops, forcing you to use an item for those simple QoL steps was pointless. The Talisman was the next logical step for the concept of Charms, but like I said, Charms were a choice to even carry at all. They were extra bonuses for people willing to make the major sacrifice of loot space. Had the Talisman been implemented in D3, Charms wouldn't have been a choice to carry, and the only way they would've been a choice is if people left their Talisman's empty.
Like I said, I'd like to see it back. A lot. I like more character customization options as much as anybody else, and additional ways to make my builds and setups more unique and stronger, I'm all for that. But I don't want it to be JUST another source of higher stats. Which is what the Talisman initially was...just a spot to put stat items. That's it. If inventory space isn't impeded, there should be drawbacks on each Charm, negative effects that cause people to think, "ooooh, I could really use that buff, but...man, that downside is pretty intense. Gotta figure out a way to minimize it."
The dev mentions how awesome it is the charms are placed in the Talisman instead of his inventory. It is not impeding the item hunt at all, if anything it should add another layer to the item hunt. There is no sacrifice between charm and items. Charms should be a secondary benefit to your gear.
The way the Talisman was introduced did seem rather shallow, and since you weren't sacrificing inventory space for extra buffs, it just became a requirement.
It's as much of a requirement as other gear slots.I don't get this argument. Why were charms held to a higher standard than other pieces of gear?
A better description would be: more features like the legendary potions and less things like D2 charms.
The way the Talisman was introduced did seem rather shallow, and since you weren't sacrificing inventory space for extra buffs, it just became a requirement.
It's as much of a requirement as other gear slots.I don't get this argument. Why were charms held to a higher standard than other pieces of gear?
Why were they held to a higher standard? Easy.
In D2, Charms offered great buffs to stats and skills, ALMOST for free. All you have to do is hold them in your pack and you get stronger. Thing is, even with an empty inventory, pack space in D2 was friggin minimal. So while it seemed like free buffs, the fact that Diablo has always been a LOOT HUNT, and Charms directly impeded that...was kinda flawed in design. On paper, it made a lot of sense, but in implementation, it was a royal pain in the ass. Thus, if you really wanted to carry around Charms, you either had to get the right shaped ones, or even choose to bother with it at all.
Early on, the D3 devs made a lot of easy evolutions in systems. Perfect example...Town Portal Scrolls and ID scrolls. GONE. Mainly because people in D2 never ran out. There was no point in carrying them around, because they were either so cheap to buy regularly, or so abundant from drops, forcing you to use an item for those simple QoL steps was pointless. The Talisman was the next logical step for the concept of Charms, but like I said, Charms were a choice to even carry at all. They were extra bonuses for people willing to make the major sacrifice of loot space. Had the Talisman been implemented in D3, Charms wouldn't have been a choice to carry, and the only way they would've been a choice is if people left their Talisman's empty.
Like I said, I'd like to see it back. A lot. I like more character customization options as much as anybody else, and additional ways to make my builds and setups more unique and stronger, I'm all for that. But I don't want it to be JUST another source of higher stats. Which is what the Talisman initially was...just a spot to put stat items. That's it. If inventory space isn't impeded, there should be drawbacks on each Charm, negative effects that cause people to think, "ooooh, I could really use that buff, but...man, that downside is pretty intense. Gotta figure out a way to minimize it."
The dev mentions how awesome it is the charms are placed in the Talisman instead of his inventory. It is not impeding the item hunt at all, if anything it should add another layer to the item hunt. There is no sacrifice between charm and items. Charms should be a secondary benefit to your gear.
Okay...you quoted my post...I guess you didn't read it.
I'm sure the dev does mention how awesome it is that the Talisman charms aren't placed in the inventory. That's what I'm trying to get at here. The Talisman was an easy evolution to the idea of charms that had ZERO drawback. TP and ID scrolls were an easy deletion, because they impeded the simple day to day activities of identifying items and traveling back to town, things people would do hundreds of times per play session. But Charms would effect builds on the whole, meaning they would require a lot more work to implement properly.
I'm not saying that that's a good reason to remove the feature. I'm just saying if they're going to implement something that everyone WILL use (unlike charms in D2, which not everyone used as much as others), they need to apply drawbacks.
Quote from Maka» Yes, without taking up inventory space, charms would just be another source of higher stats. And I'd be fine with that.
Hell, give them unique stats. Make the pool of unique stats much bigger than the amount of charm slots. There, now you have to choose.
It's something that annoys me about Blizzard: everything has to 'reinvent the wheel'.
It's not a bad thing to keep wanting to innovate or change peoples' routines and current game trends. D1 did that by providing a simple, well put together "loot hunt and grind" experience. D2 did it even further, fixing major drawbacks from D1 with better systems, and still keeping the same world and environment from D1. D3 has attempted to do it, but because so many people had D2 routines already set in stone, D3 has been met with nothing but harsh backlash, and this "never good enough" attitude from players.
Which is funny to get from a thread about this topic, because I seem the only person upset with Diablo 2 or LOD's stash space was.
Quote from Maka Diablo 2 with 24 squares? I can see you never used PlugY...
Yes, it was a mod, but if even modders did it......
How is a single player add-on even remotely useful? you had "unlimited" stash space in diablo 2 anyway with 2 CD-key and 2 clients. sure it's a hell to swap and check everything but its doable, been playing diablo 2 ladder like this for years.
anyway back to the topic.
due to the setup of the skill system and paragon system (if it is respeccable without cost)
one only needs 6 and that leaves 6-9 mules, where you can put gear if you want for other builds for your main characters.sure if you wanna do the same thing on HC also you get 0-3 mules to put stuff in.
Sure it has not as good mule capacity as Diablo 2 or 1 it is good enought for diablo 3. i would just like to seesome betterinterface for gems, dyes and materials that does not take up a stash slot.
No, maka, I never used any mods for D2...because I actually liked playing the game Blizzard provided, as opposed to adding tons of stuff to it from other sources, despite the increasing mountain of problems D2 had that people love ignoring with rose-colored glasses. And apparently 3rd party software.
And Vomica, in regard to mules...just shows how crummy Blizzard North's opinion on stash space was to begin with. That they allowed mules to be created for so long, instead of patching in simple things, like small item stacking for potions and gems, stash tabs, etc. Item transferring was awkward, silly, and I'd rather have individual stashes for all characters that were maniacally too small than go through the enormous trouble of creating mule characters....which by the way, could also barely hold anything, because a "shared stash" was such a foreign concept in those cold Stone Age days.
As far as creating mules in D3? That's just sickening. I have 10 slots right now, one for each class in both HC and SC. When I get RoS, I'll make two Crusaders, 1 HC and 1 SC, and the version I'm getting will still leave me with 3 slots for other character variations if I want to make them. I'm never going to make mules. What an absolute waste.
Modding is what has kept some series alive and has made some titles famous due to the longevity of the games since they have wonderful communities that work hard to improve the games they love.
Back to topic... More space please, there are more items and reasons to hold things in RoS compared to Vanilla.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Yeah, Ideally one stash per character plus one common stash would be nice but I welcome any change to more stash space. I play all characters, so I keep a lot of stuff around.
I'm glad that we finally get an increase. Sure it's still not as much space as I'd like to have, but "more is more"
Actually, we are getting less. With the removal of both A'S we would lose 50 inventory spaces from GAH and 50 inventory spaces from RMAH. Not to mention the 10 slots you receive from posting items to sell.
It's a downgrade.
And not to wake the dragon that is cardinal, but videos being ancient they had ample time to improve the tali. The mystic doesn't seem like reinventing the wheel from the mystic we say at blizzard 2010.
Puts on flame suit. Dare those who ask for more and are ungrateful little brats!
I'm glad that we finally get an increase. Sure it's still not as much space as I'd like to have, but "more is more"
Actually, we are getting less. With the removal of both A'S we would lose 50 inventory spaces from GAH and 50 inventory spaces from RMAH. Not to mention the 10 slots you receive from posting items to sell.
It's a downgrade.
And not to wake the dragon that is cardinal, but videos being ancient they had ample time to improve the tali. The mystic doesn't seem like reinventing the wheel from the mystic we say at blizzard 2010.
Puts on flame suit. Dare those who ask for more and are ungrateful little brats!
First of all...on topic...because apparently maka never seems to understand the point of ANY of my interventions, and I need to spell things out:
3 stash tabs = adequate. Especially with consolidation changes being made. 4 stash tabs = better. 5 or more stash tabs? = WAY better. Shouldn't need that many, but I'm plenty happy with it, fully support it, and understand the need for it.
Second...damage424? Let them bring back the Talisman. I'm fine with it. If I haven't said it, I'll say it now, I like the idea and the intention...but I understand why they removed it pre-launch. Only reason I pointed out the vids being ancient is that the game was still in development. Just as the expansion is in development now. Features are getting added and removed all the time. For instance, they added the ability to Reset the Campaign Mode quest progression so you can start from Act 1 again...who knows if that'll make it into Release or not. They added in the "resource spender defaults to primary" early in the F&F beta and took that out. Sorry you're upset with features being removed, and have been removed, both during and outside of development cycles. I'm not really sure what point there is to lamenting about it now beyond getting trolls to agree with you.
As for this nonsense about losing 50 slots from the AH, and the new stash tab being a downgrade? I'm honestly impressed that more than 1 person are actually citing the AH queue a form of storage. Inconvenient as all hell it may have been...however, both your and maka's math on that is off...
See, each AH queue (SC and HC) gives you 50 ITEMS to store as "Completed". Not SLOTS. ITEMS. Meaning, if you save 50 ITEMS in both the SC and HC AH queues, and all of those items are of larger size than, say, rings, amulets, mats, gems, etc., you're actually "losing" 100 SLOTS each. Not just 50. Times that by 2, and by your logics, you technically "lose" 200 total individual stash slots.
But please, feel free to lament on how much MORE of a net loss of "slots" that is than previously estimated, and how you don't have to go through the idiotic steps of storing things there so inconveniently. Me? I'm going to pay the gold in RoS to store stuff in my actual Stash, get rid of things I don't need at a reasonable pace, and continue being elated that the AH has been removed.
I'm glad that we finally get an increase. Sure it's still not as much space as I'd like to have, but "more is more"
Actually, we are getting less. With the removal of both A'S we would lose 50 inventory spaces from GAH and 50 inventory spaces from RMAH. Not to mention the 10 slots you receive from posting items to sell.
It's a downgrade.
And not to wake the dragon that is cardinal, but videos being ancient they had ample time to improve the tali. The mystic doesn't seem like reinventing the wheel from the mystic we say at blizzard 2010.
Puts on flame suit. Dare those who ask for more and are ungrateful little brats!
I... what? We are getting another tab, that's quite simply an increase to what we had. Who counts AH space as storage space?
And also, The mystic today is nowhere near was she was back in 2010. Back in 2010, she was who you went to to mess with your talisman, and she enchanted gear with elemental effects. Today, she the is artisan you use for Xmog, and you can reforge your gear's stats at her station.
Wasn't transmog a Wow feature? Players also wanted to change their appearance from launch. I would argue against reinventing the wheel on that one
And sorry for saying acti-blizz. Might want to check out ign. They wrote in their article that Activision sold d3, no were does it mention blizz, I just thought it was funny bc you got upset I called them acti blizz.
Also, feel free to check out the forums on the official d3 website. I bet there are plenty of accounts who have mules
One additional tab is good news, of course. But it still makes me feel like they're so afraid of giving us "too much" that we get dribs and drabs and little injections of stuff that add up to less than what we need.
I would agree that what we really need is for those final two tabs to be character-specific. I really don't need more SHARED space, I just need more space for all these items that I'm supposed to be hoarding like a neurotic sociopath. In fact, MOST items only apply to one/two classes anyway. I need shared stash space for transferring items (something they correctly improved from D2), crafting materials, stuff like Infernal Machines, and other things I would want to use for ALL my characters. I do not need shared space to store my WDs 10th set of gear. So, please, consider nixing the 4th shared tab and giving us 3 shared and 2 character-specific tabs. Hell, maybe even just 2 shared and 3 character-specific tabs.
When you are expecting people to collect items you have to give them appropriate means to do so. Otherwise an orderly, impressive, collection like that quickly turns into a giant clusterfuck like this:
The dev mentions how awesome it is the charms are placed in the Talisman instead of his inventory. It is not impeding the item hunt at all, if anything it should add another layer to the item hunt. There is no sacrifice between charm and items. Charms should be a secondary benefit to your gear.
I'm sure the dev does mention how awesome it is that the Talisman charms aren't placed in the inventory. That's what I'm trying to get at here. The Talisman was an easy evolution to the idea of charms that had ZERO drawback. TP and ID scrolls were an easy deletion, because they impeded the simple day to day activities of identifying items and traveling back to town, things people would do hundreds of times per play session. But Charms would effect builds on the whole, meaning they would require a lot more work to implement properly.
I'm not saying that that's a good reason to remove the feature. I'm just saying if they're going to implement something that everyone WILL use (unlike charms in D2, which not everyone used as much as others), they need to apply drawbacks.
Which is funny to get from a thread about this topic, because I seem the only person upset with Diablo 2 or LOD's stash space was.
No, maka, I never used any mods for D2...because I actually liked playing the game Blizzard provided, as opposed to adding tons of stuff to it from other sources, despite the increasing mountain of problems D2 had that people love ignoring with rose-colored glasses. And apparently 3rd party software.
And Vomica, in regard to mules...just shows how crummy Blizzard North's opinion on stash space was to begin with. That they allowed mules to be created for so long, instead of patching in simple things, like small item stacking for potions and gems, stash tabs, etc. Item transferring was awkward, silly, and I'd rather have individual stashes for all characters that were maniacally too small than go through the enormous trouble of creating mule characters....which by the way, could also barely hold anything, because a "shared stash" was such a foreign concept in those cold Stone Age days.
As far as creating mules in D3? That's just sickening. I have 10 slots right now, one for each class in both HC and SC. When I get RoS, I'll make two Crusaders, 1 HC and 1 SC, and the version I'm getting will still leave me with 3 slots for other character variations if I want to make them. I'm never going to make mules. What an absolute waste.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Sol77-2972/hero/66110450
It's a downgrade.
And not to wake the dragon that is cardinal, but videos being ancient they had ample time to improve the tali. The mystic doesn't seem like reinventing the wheel from the mystic we say at blizzard 2010.
Puts on flame suit. Dare those who ask for more and are ungrateful little brats!
3 stash tabs = adequate. Especially with consolidation changes being made. 4 stash tabs = better. 5 or more stash tabs? = WAY better. Shouldn't need that many, but I'm plenty happy with it, fully support it, and understand the need for it.
Second...damage424? Let them bring back the Talisman. I'm fine with it. If I haven't said it, I'll say it now, I like the idea and the intention...but I understand why they removed it pre-launch. Only reason I pointed out the vids being ancient is that the game was still in development. Just as the expansion is in development now. Features are getting added and removed all the time. For instance, they added the ability to Reset the Campaign Mode quest progression so you can start from Act 1 again...who knows if that'll make it into Release or not. They added in the "resource spender defaults to primary" early in the F&F beta and took that out. Sorry you're upset with features being removed, and have been removed, both during and outside of development cycles. I'm not really sure what point there is to lamenting about it now beyond getting trolls to agree with you.
As for this nonsense about losing 50 slots from the AH, and the new stash tab being a downgrade? I'm honestly impressed that more than 1 person are actually citing the AH queue a form of storage. Inconvenient as all hell it may have been...however, both your and maka's math on that is off...
See, each AH queue (SC and HC) gives you 50 ITEMS to store as "Completed". Not SLOTS. ITEMS. Meaning, if you save 50 ITEMS in both the SC and HC AH queues, and all of those items are of larger size than, say, rings, amulets, mats, gems, etc., you're actually "losing" 100 SLOTS each. Not just 50. Times that by 2, and by your logics, you technically "lose" 200 total individual stash slots.
But please, feel free to lament on how much MORE of a net loss of "slots" that is than previously estimated, and how you don't have to go through the idiotic steps of storing things there so inconveniently. Me? I'm going to pay the gold in RoS to store stuff in my actual Stash, get rid of things I don't need at a reasonable pace, and continue being elated that the AH has been removed.
I... what? We are getting another tab, that's quite simply an increase to what we had. Who counts AH space as storage space?
And also, The mystic today is nowhere near was she was back in 2010. Back in 2010, she was who you went to to mess with your talisman, and she enchanted gear with elemental effects. Today, she the is artisan you use for Xmog, and you can reforge your gear's stats at her station.
And sorry for saying acti-blizz. Might want to check out ign. They wrote in their article that Activision sold d3, no were does it mention blizz, I just thought it was funny bc you got upset I called them acti blizz.
Also, feel free to check out the forums on the official d3 website. I bet there are plenty of accounts who have mules
I would agree that what we really need is for those final two tabs to be character-specific. I really don't need more SHARED space, I just need more space for all these items that I'm supposed to be hoarding like a neurotic sociopath. In fact, MOST items only apply to one/two classes anyway. I need shared stash space for transferring items (something they correctly improved from D2), crafting materials, stuff like Infernal Machines, and other things I would want to use for ALL my characters. I do not need shared space to store my WDs 10th set of gear. So, please, consider nixing the 4th shared tab and giving us 3 shared and 2 character-specific tabs. Hell, maybe even just 2 shared and 3 character-specific tabs.
When you are expecting people to collect items you have to give them appropriate means to do so. Otherwise an orderly, impressive, collection like that quickly turns into a giant clusterfuck like this: