Maybe I am being ignorant but could someone clarify how they arrive at this theoretical 3000 skill runes? To my knowledge, previously there were 5 different runes each with 7 levels to them. That makes a total of 35 different individual item drops. Were there specific runes for each specific skill? If so why not just make each rune work for all skills and classes, and keep them as items? I think that 35 items are pretty manageable to deal with. Is there something that I am missing here?
Don't forget it would be 35 items which were stackable = requiring 5 inventory or stash slots.
And if they were afraid of wasting those 5 slots, it would have been easily solved by making the runes consumable (and then stored in the skill UI like it is in 1.13).
I think we can pretty safely conclude this wasn't a reason for the new system.
They explained it in the article. It's not just one class, it's all classes since it would be safe to assume that not only Barbarian runes would drop while playing the Barbarian (like it is with all other items in the game), thus the huge amount of runes that would be dropping...each skill for each class for each of the 7 levels...etc etc you get it
What they were talking about was a system that they MIGHT have implemented, where when you put a skill run in a skill (it started out unidentified) it would be a random color and rank, and then be bound to that skill. You'd end up with hundreds or more of runes, and it was all a huge mess. Plus if you wanted 5 of each rune for each skill (about 120 runes or more per character) you'd then x 10 for max account, so over 1200 runes even with the normal system.
it was a big headache, and I really like the new change =D
Were there specific runes for each specific skill? If so why not just make each rune work for all skills and classes, and keep them as items?
It's interesting how lame excuses people can give to justify something. You may think that the new system is better than the old one, but that is no excuse at all for the change. They could have just made what OP suggests easily.
I don't want to seem ignorant but I still really don't get it. I guess I was misinterpreting the old system. I thought, as I said earlier, that it was as simple as 7 ranks per 5 runes. 35 runes total. If you find a rank 5 alabaster rune it wouldn't matter if you put it in a Wizard's disintegrate or a Barbarian's bash, it would be the same item but just subjectively do something different contingent on the specific skill it's put in for a specific class. I didn't think, for example staying with those I just gave, that you would find a rank 5 alabaster wizard disintegrate rune. I was under the impression that runes were arbitrary. I can't really add up how there would be any more than 35 items, and how people keep coming up with things in the hundreds and thousands.
Edit: Never mind I understand now. I had no idea there were SPECIFIC rune drops for specific skills, thats a horrible system. Why not just keep it arbitrary like the way I had presumed them to work? Instead of having 7 ranks of alabaster runes drop for every skill for every class, just let them have their own individual effect per skill.
Maybe I am being ignorant but could someone clarify how they arrive at this theoretical 3000 skill runes? To my knowledge, previously there were 5 different runes each with 7 levels to them. That makes a total of 35 different individual item drops. Were there specific runes for each specific skill? If so why not just make each rune work for all skills and classes, and keep them as items? I think that 35 items are pretty manageable to deal with. Is there something that I am missing here?
That was the original rune system. The problem with that one was that they couldn't easily show what the rune would do in a tooltip if it could be used in any skill (even just showing the effects for the 6 currently selected skills would be a huge tooltip).
Their 2nd version that they talked about around Blizzcon was to drop "Unattuned" runes in ranks 1-7 (so, there were 7 possible runes that could drop). Once you put one of these runes in a skill, it would randomly pick a rune color and lock to that skill. This solved the tooltip problem (while keeping the number of dropped runes quite manageable) but this meant that storing attuned runes was a nightmare. 20+ skills per class * 5 classes * 5 runes per skill * 7 ranks per run = 3500+ different runes to have to deal with.
But it was even worse than that. At one point they were also talking about giving the runes a random stat (like other items) to make them even more unique and interesting. Not only would you have to find a rank 7 rune, but you'd want to get one of the right color with a good affix. But under a system like this you might want to have more than one rune of a specific skill-color combination if they had different affixes (to switch between depending on your specific build or whatever).
TL;DR: The system was just totally unmanageable. They could have gone back to not having runes locked to skills to solve the inventory problem, but they would still have the tooltip problem. This new system solves both issues as well as gives people a reason to be excited about each level from 30-60 as well.
I don't want to seem ignorant but I still really don't get it. I guess I was misinterpreting the old system. I thought, as I said earlier, that it was as simple as 7 ranks per 5 runes. 35 runes total. If you find a rank 5 alabaster rune it wouldn't matter if you put it in a Wizard's disintegrate or a Barbarian's bash, it would be the same item but just subjectively do something different contingent on the specific skill it's put in for a specific class. I didn't think, for example staying with those I just gave, that you would find a rank 5 alabaster wizard disintegrate rune. I was under the impression that runes were arbitrary. I can't really add up how there would be any more than 35 items, and how people keep coming up with things in the hundreds and thousands.
Edit: Never mind I understand now. I had no idea there were SPECIFIC rune drops for specific skills, thats a horrible system. Why not just keep it arbitrary like the way I had presumed them to work? Instead of having 7 ranks of alabaster runes drop for every skill for every class, just let them have their own individual effect per skill.
You aren't factoring in that you might want to use that same rune in another skill on your slots... Thus adding a lot more than your 35.
It's interesting how lame excuses people can give to justify something. You may think that the new system is better than the old one, but that is no excuse at all for the change. They could have just made what OP suggests easily.
What the OP suggests was exactly how the runes worked like last summer. So it is not even like it is something Blizzard had not managed to consider.
I believe that the problem is not the actual physical item in your inventory, using up inventory space. I think it's with Blizzards memory storage. They have to carry data for each class, as well as each rune, and rune level, so when you multiply it all together, it's a lot.
Still, storage shouldn't be an issue for a company like Blizzard, and they could have figure a way around the in-game inventory space that it took up.
Should have been like: Runes drops as one of the 5 types and are stackable. Once you insert it to a skill it becomes that affix (with specific variations -- as they were listed in the old system), upon removing it from that skill it remains with those affixes and is either used in that skill, or trashed/sold. This way the runes that are no longer stackable are either used in the skill itself, or sold; though they are no longer stackable with the other runes, they are not taking up inventory space.
With a model like this, there would have been a potential to have 35 inventory spaces filled with runes (5 types * 7 levels). But as the game progresses those level 1 runestones will become pointless, and will no longer remain in people's inventory, so they will not take up space.
They could have figured a different way around this issue. They just took the easy road...let's be honest and call it what it is.
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Playing a Wizard. Looking for Demon Hunters to play with.
That was the original rune system. The problem with that one was that they couldn't easily show what the rune would do in a tooltip if it could be used in any skill (even just showing the effects for the 6 currently selected skills would be a huge tooltip).
Ah, thank you. That clears it up quite a bit. I still think that there would be a way to solve the tooltip issue without having to completely scrap the item idea entirely. Remember the days when you had to read the game manual to learn about the game? They could have payed homage to those archaic times, remove the need for a tooltip and just list the info there or on the website. I understand that you should be able to have all the info in game but I feel like there would be a simple way to remove the tooltip issue. For example, the skill builder they have online seems to do that pretty well. Even if it does take up a lot of screen, it isn't unreasonable to expect players to mess with runes while in a town and thus screen space wouldn't be that big of an issue.
Maybe I am being ignorant but could someone clarify how they arrive at this theoretical 3000 skill runes? To my knowledge, previously there were 5 different runes each with 7 levels to them. That makes a total of 35 different individual item drops. Were there specific runes for each specific skill? If so why not just make each rune work for all skills and classes, and keep them as items? I think that 35 items are pretty manageable to deal with. Is there something that I am missing here?
120 skills times 5 types of runes time 5 ranks of runes.
120x5x5=3000.
7 ranks x 5 runes per skill x 120 skills = 4200 different runes in game.
Yeah I can see why they scrapped that. That's a bit crazy, assuming you had to consume them in order you'd have to hold all those.
Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and support the new system completely. I want to play diablo 3, not hoarders.
How is that any less ridiculous then the VAST amount of gems you need to collect to create a level 14?
the gems and runes are completely different if im not mistaken, in order to get ONE lvl 7 gem you need like 3 lvl 6 gems so even if you a large amount of gems divide it by 3 and then by how many pieces of gear have sockets
i honestly cant even imagine how they thought it was going to work in the first place. What's happening now is much better, and what should have been easily the first option. They should just double the amount of options for each skill selection. Think of it, there are so many affixes you could attatch to really specialize in a certain field. You could have a endless combination of really unique online players. I never understood why they never just develop more skills and devoted more time to that.
And I'm all about color coding that's the only thing ill miss about the old runestones, I guess.
But seriously... 4200 runes what a joke lolz! obv pot heads
I believe that the problem is not the actual physical item in your inventory, using up inventory space. I think it's with Blizzards memory storage. They have to carry data for each class, as well as each rune, and rune level, so when you multiply it all together, it's a lot.
Still, storage shouldn't be an issue for a company like Blizzard, and they could have figure a way around the in-game inventory space that it took up.
Should have been like: Runes drops as one of the 5 types and are stackable. Once you insert it to a skill it becomes that affix (with specific variations -- as they were listed in the old system), upon removing it from that skill it remains with those affixes and is either used in that skill, or trashed/sold. This way the runes that are no longer stackable are either used in the skill itself, or sold; though they are no longer stackable with the other runes, they are not taking up inventory space.
With a model like this, there would have been a potential to have 35 inventory spaces filled with runes (5 types * 7 levels). But as the game progresses those level 1 runestones will become pointless, and will no longer remain in people's inventory, so they will not take up space.
They could have figured a different way around this issue. They just took the easy road...let's be honest and call it what it is.
So u like to micro-manage 60k runes in your inventory and mules? Come on there are other stuff ingame to manage. Have u consider that ppl could also be hoarding runes especially the hot ones? Will u pay to get those for your final build? I want to enjoy my game and progress and rune drops imo is not the way to go.
Maybe I am being ignorant but could someone clarify how they arrive at this theoretical 3000 skill runes? To my knowledge, previously there were 5 different runes each with 7 levels to them. That makes a total of 35 different individual item drops. Were there specific runes for each specific skill? If so why not just make each rune work for all skills and classes, and keep them as items? I think that 35 items are pretty manageable to deal with. Is there something that I am missing here?
its quite simple there are 5 runes for each skill, but there were also 7 ranks of each of those runes. thus 5X7x number of skills
So u like to micro-manage 60k runes in your inventory and mules? Come on there are other stuff ingame to manage. Have u consider that ppl could also be hoarding runes especially the hot ones? Will u pay to get those for your final build? I want to enjoy my game and progress and rune drops imo is not the way to go.
I love how the imaginary number of runes goes up every time someone posts about it.
Seriously people, its fine you vehemently defend or attack the changes, but could everyone stop making up numbers, information etc. to supposedly strengthen their opinion. It is getting quite ridiculous to read.
Not just in this thread, but pretty much all over the place.
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And if they were afraid of wasting those 5 slots, it would have been easily solved by making the runes consumable (and then stored in the skill UI like it is in 1.13).
I think we can pretty safely conclude this wasn't a reason for the new system.
it was a big headache, and I really like the new change =D
It's interesting how lame excuses people can give to justify something. You may think that the new system is better than the old one, but that is no excuse at all for the change. They could have just made what OP suggests easily.
Edit: Never mind I understand now. I had no idea there were SPECIFIC rune drops for specific skills, thats a horrible system. Why not just keep it arbitrary like the way I had presumed them to work? Instead of having 7 ranks of alabaster runes drop for every skill for every class, just let them have their own individual effect per skill.
That was the original rune system. The problem with that one was that they couldn't easily show what the rune would do in a tooltip if it could be used in any skill (even just showing the effects for the 6 currently selected skills would be a huge tooltip).
Their 2nd version that they talked about around Blizzcon was to drop "Unattuned" runes in ranks 1-7 (so, there were 7 possible runes that could drop). Once you put one of these runes in a skill, it would randomly pick a rune color and lock to that skill. This solved the tooltip problem (while keeping the number of dropped runes quite manageable) but this meant that storing attuned runes was a nightmare. 20+ skills per class * 5 classes * 5 runes per skill * 7 ranks per run = 3500+ different runes to have to deal with.
But it was even worse than that. At one point they were also talking about giving the runes a random stat (like other items) to make them even more unique and interesting. Not only would you have to find a rank 7 rune, but you'd want to get one of the right color with a good affix. But under a system like this you might want to have more than one rune of a specific skill-color combination if they had different affixes (to switch between depending on your specific build or whatever).
TL;DR: The system was just totally unmanageable. They could have gone back to not having runes locked to skills to solve the inventory problem, but they would still have the tooltip problem. This new system solves both issues as well as gives people a reason to be excited about each level from 30-60 as well.
You aren't factoring in that you might want to use that same rune in another skill on your slots... Thus adding a lot more than your 35.
Yeah I can see why they scrapped that. That's a bit crazy, assuming you had to consume them in order you'd have to hold all those.
Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and support the new system completely. I want to play diablo 3, not hoarders.
Still, storage shouldn't be an issue for a company like Blizzard, and they could have figure a way around the in-game inventory space that it took up.
Should have been like: Runes drops as one of the 5 types and are stackable. Once you insert it to a skill it becomes that affix (with specific variations -- as they were listed in the old system), upon removing it from that skill it remains with those affixes and is either used in that skill, or trashed/sold. This way the runes that are no longer stackable are either used in the skill itself, or sold; though they are no longer stackable with the other runes, they are not taking up inventory space.
With a model like this, there would have been a potential to have 35 inventory spaces filled with runes (5 types * 7 levels). But as the game progresses those level 1 runestones will become pointless, and will no longer remain in people's inventory, so they will not take up space.
They could have figured a different way around this issue. They just took the easy road...let's be honest and call it what it is.
Ah, thank you. That clears it up quite a bit. I still think that there would be a way to solve the tooltip issue without having to completely scrap the item idea entirely. Remember the days when you had to read the game manual to learn about the game? They could have payed homage to those archaic times, remove the need for a tooltip and just list the info there or on the website. I understand that you should be able to have all the info in game but I feel like there would be a simple way to remove the tooltip issue. For example, the skill builder they have online seems to do that pretty well. Even if it does take up a lot of screen, it isn't unreasonable to expect players to mess with runes while in a town and thus screen space wouldn't be that big of an issue.
120 skills times 5 types of runes time 5 ranks of runes.
120x5x5=3000.
How is that any less ridiculous then the VAST amount of gems you need to collect to create a level 14?
the gems and runes are completely different if im not mistaken, in order to get ONE lvl 7 gem you need like 3 lvl 6 gems so even if you a large amount of gems divide it by 3 and then by how many pieces of gear have sockets
And I'm all about color coding that's the only thing ill miss about the old runestones, I guess.
But seriously... 4200 runes what a joke lolz! obv pot heads
So u like to micro-manage 60k runes in your inventory and mules? Come on there are other stuff ingame to manage. Have u consider that ppl could also be hoarding runes especially the hot ones? Will u pay to get those for your final build? I want to enjoy my game and progress and rune drops imo is not the way to go.
its quite simple there are 5 runes for each skill, but there were also 7 ranks of each of those runes. thus 5X7x number of skills
Seriously people, its fine you vehemently defend or attack the changes, but could everyone stop making up numbers, information etc. to supposedly strengthen their opinion. It is getting quite ridiculous to read.
Not just in this thread, but pretty much all over the place.