this video about the "caster damage" part doesnt make sense. even the blue post about it is wrong or just worded wrong. because attack effects damage and is on most weapons and effects all damage even casters. his video is therefor spreading confused false info and needs to be corrected.
the WD spell "soul harvest" increases attack, why would a caster have a spell like that if it doesnt help him at all?
they REALLY need to reclerify this. because if this is the case then the attack attribute on all weapons is 100% useless for casters or anything that boosts damage such as "adds 1-6 lightning damage". this would severely gimp the WD and Wiz damage wise. unless there spell damage was super increased for every skill i dont see this being true.
**its confirmed attack effects caster spells in the beta. so this is definitely worded badly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
Yep, I noticed that too. I think he misunderstood this quote: "
We have no plans to make it so that Wizard and Witch Doctor spells will scale off of anything but weapon damage at this current point.
"
But I don't have beta and not sure 100%, is it true that Attack increases spell damage (I always thought so)?
Yes, when you mouse over the Attack stat it says increases all damage, not specifically phyiscal or melee damage. Spells were increased by the Attack stat before the change to weapon damage, and after the change.
Equipping a pair of gloves on my wizard (in patch 9) increases my DPS in the stat tab.
good. so then the blue post doesnt make sense when it says "ONLY effected by weapon damage". implying the 1 and only. lol. i can maybe see why the "+lightning dmg" shit doesnt work for spells and only melee, but i still think its lame and should be changed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I don't get whats so confusing. Spells only SCALE with weapon damage, and attack can "increase" their damage further. Blizzard specifically said they want the spells to now scale with weapon damage only, and not levels. Simple, not wrong, not confusing.
I don't get whats so confusing. Spells only SCALE with weapon damage, and attack can "increase" their damage further. Blizzard specifically said they want the spells to now scale with weapon damage only, and not levels. Simple, not wrong, not confusing.
anything that "increases" something makes it "scale". does weapon damage not increase? therefor making the spells "scale"? exactly how attack power does. so you would say "spells scale with attack power" just as you would say "spells scale with weapon damage" because they do. therefor its another thing they scale with. it IS worded badly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
I don't get whats so confusing. Spells only SCALE with weapon damage, and attack can "increase" their damage further. Blizzard specifically said they want the spells to now scale with weapon damage only, and not levels. Simple, not wrong, not confusing.
anything that "increases" something makes it "scale". does weapon damage not increase? therefor making the spells "scale"? exactly how attack power does. so you would say "spells scale with attack power" just as you would say "spells scale with weapon damage" because they do. therefor its another thing they scale with. it IS worded badly.
Yes and no. Increasing damage and "scaling" are different. While both refer to ways a spell can do more damage, if a spell "scales" with a stat, that stat affects spells much more than anything else. Attack increases the damage your spells do above and beyond that. The value of Attack is also directly dependent upon your weapon damage. You can do a lot of damage with a good weapon yet have no Attack items. Alternately, if you simply stack Attack and have a crappy beginner weapon, your spells won't do much of anything. So essentially your spells and Attack both scale with weapon damage.
I think what's confusing is when Force says "No other stats or anything like that will increase your caster damage," when this is obviously a false statement because Attack and Precision will increase caster damage.
I think what's confusing is when Force says "No other stats or anything like that will increase your caster damage," when this is obviously a false statement because Attack and Precision will increase caster damage.
Yeah, I heard that part. While other stats may increase the damage your spells do, really that increase is minimal at best on it's own. So if we are being pedantic, yeah what he said wasn't quite right.
Spells scale with weapon damage, and weapon damage is increased by the attack stat...how is that confusing? I understood what that blue quote said immediately. Not sure why Force would think that.
Yes and no. Increasing damage and "scaling" are different. While both refer to ways a spell can do more damage, if a spell "scales" with a stat, that stat affects spells much more than anything else. Attack increases the damage your spells do above and beyond that. The value of Attack is also directly dependent upon your weapon damage. You can do a lot of damage with a good weapon yet have no Attack items. Alternately, if you simply stack Attack and have a crappy beginner weapon, your spells won't do much of anything. So essentially your spells and Attack both scale with weapon damage.
im sorry but thats not right at all. what your saying doesnt even make sense. attack doesnt "Scale" with weapon damage. it increases by a certain amount per item that has + to attack. your "attack" is an attribute that you stack to increase your overall dmg. spells SCALE from a combination of weapon dmg + the attack attribute. both are in the equation to scale your overall dmg output are they not?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
im sorry but thats not right at all. what your saying doesnt even make sense. attack doesnt "Scale" with weapon damage. it increases by a certain amount per item that has + to attack. your "attack" is an attribute that you stack to increase your overall dmg. spells SCALE from a combination of weapon dmg + the attack attribute. both are in the equation to scale your overall dmg output are they not?
First, you need to stop confusing "scale" with "increase", as they are not the same. While a spell's damage is increased by several stats, it scales with only one.
What we know...
Spells ONLY scale with weapon damage. How do we know this? A blue post saying exactly that, spell tooltips show that they do a % of weapon damage, and it's easily provable in the beta. There's no question about this, so arguing that spells scale with Attack is fruitless. There's just nothing to back that claim up. But I think once you stop using "scale" and "increase" interchangeably, you'll see this.
As far as Attack goes, it will certainly increase the damage spells will do. No one is saying otherwise (well, except maybe Force in his video). How do we know spells don't scale with Attack? Blue post and very easily provable in the beta. What happens if you were to add an item with +35 Attack to a naked toon? Your dps would go up a point or two, if that. Now, what happens when you have a nice weapon and some +Damage gear? That 35 Attack is worth significantly more. Why? Because Attack = a % of your total Damage. 35 Attack = 35% Damage. Which is higher....35% of 10 or 35% of 100? Attack scales indirectly with your Weapon Damage and directly with the total Damage you can do. No Damage? Attack is next to worthless. Lots of Damage? Attack is more valuable.
If I could just find the DPS equation, it would put this whole thing to rest...
im sorry but thats not right at all. what your saying doesnt even make sense. attack doesnt "Scale" with weapon damage. it increases by a certain amount per item that has + to attack. your "attack" is an attribute that you stack to increase your overall dmg. spells SCALE from a combination of weapon dmg + the attack attribute. both are in the equation to scale your overall dmg output are they not?
First, you need to stop confusing "scale" with "increase", as they are not the same. While a spell's damage is increased by several stats, it scales with only one.
What we know...
Spells ONLY scale with weapon damage. How do we know this? A blue post saying exactly that, spell tooltips show that they do a % of weapon damage, and it's easily provable in the beta. There's no question about this, so arguing that spells scale with Attack is fruitless. There's just nothing to back that claim up. But I think once you stop using "scale" and "increase" interchangeably, you'll see this.
As far as Attack goes, it will certainly increase the damage spells will do. No one is saying otherwise (well, except maybe Force in his video). How do we know spells don't scale with Attack? Blue post and very easily provable in the beta. What happens if you were to add an item with +35 Attack to a naked toon? Your dps would go up a point or two, if that. Now, what happens when you have a nice weapon and some +Damage gear? That 35 Attack is worth significantly more. Why? Because Attack = a % of your total Damage. 35 Attack = 35% Damage. Which is higher....35% of 10 or 35% of 100? Attack scales indirectly with your Weapon Damage and directly with the total Damage you can do. No Damage? Attack is next to worthless. Lots of Damage? Attack is more valuable.
the whole point of this thread is because the blue post is worded poorly. the fact that you need to explain it in the first place proves that its wrong. lol
scale, if you read it in the dictionary. means 1. asuccessionorprogressionofstepsordegrees;graduated series:
progression: increasing, moving forward, climbing
they ARE interchangable. lol...
but saying "your attack attribute increases (scales) with your weapon damage" is completely false. attack scales/increases with how much you get of the attribute from all of your gear, NOT just attack on your weapon. so if you have 10 base attack and you wear gloves that add +7 its scaling with your gloves, not your weapon. and if you have a weapon that doesnt have any attack on it, then it doesnt scale at all with your weapon.
if you had a white weapon with 20 dmg, and you have 10 base attack. and then u get a white weapon with 40 dmg, your attack would STILL be 10. were talking an attribute, NOT overall damage which i think thats what your confusing "attack" with. regardless of what attack does is irrelavant. the attribute itself does not increase without + to it from gear.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
First, you need to stop confusing "scale" with "increase", as they are not the same. While a spell's damage is increased by several stats, it scales with only one.
What we know...
Spells ONLY scale with weapon damage. How do we know this? A blue post saying exactly that, spell tooltips show that they do a % of weapon damage, and it's easily provable in the beta. There's no question about this, so arguing that spells scale with Attack is fruitless. There's just nothing to back that claim up. But I think once you stop using "scale" and "increase" interchangeably, you'll see this.
As far as Attack goes, it will certainly increase the damage spells will do. No one is saying otherwise (well, except maybe Force in his video). How do we know spells don't scale with Attack? Blue post and very easily provable in the beta. What happens if you were to add an item with +35 Attack to a naked toon? Your dps would go up a point or two, if that. Now, what happens when you have a nice weapon and some +Damage gear? That 35 Attack is worth significantly more. Why? Because Attack = a % of your total Damage. 35 Attack = 35% Damage. Which is higher....35% of 10 or 35% of 100? Attack scales indirectly with your Weapon Damage and directly with the total Damage you can do. No Damage? Attack is next to worthless. Lots of Damage? Attack is more valuable.
^ That makes no sense at all. Weapon damage and attack can potentially increase your spell damage in the exect same way. The same way attack is more sigficant with better damage weapons, better damage weapon is more significant with more attack.
A +2 damage ring in a chracter with 20 attack will give +2.4 damage. A +2 damage ring in a character with 1000 attack will give +20 damage.One bonus is a raw increase, the other is a multiplicative increase. I don't know why you call one scales and other increase.
What Force meant was Weapon Damage is the sole stat that determines your skill damage. However Weapon Damage depends on your Attack and your Base Weapon Damage.
^ That makes no sense at all. Weapon damage and attack can potentially increase your spell damage in the exect same way. The same way attack is more sigficant with better damage weapons, better damage weapon is more significant with more attack.
The entire point is our Spells only scale with Weapon Damage, period. You can stack Attack until you are blue in the face, but our spells will still hit like a wet noodle. Get a decent weapon and our spells will be significantly better. A great weapon and lots of Attack, perfect.
I'd address the rest of your post, but I'd end up repeating the same thing over and over...
the whole point of this thread is because the blue post is worded poorly. the fact that you need to explain it in the first place proves that its wrong. lol
Sigh....I need to explain it because you don't understand. I don't know if you ever will, based upon your most recent post. The blue post is fine and correct.
scale, if you read it in the dictionary. means 1. asuccessionorprogressionofstepsordegrees;graduated series:
progression: increasing, moving forward, climbing
they ARE interchangable. lol...
It's like hitting my head against a brick wall. Weapon Damage, Damage, and Attack all increase how hard our spells can hit. Hopefully everyone agrees with that. However, spells only scale with one. Concerning Diablo, or even WoW, when someone says a spell or ability scales off a particular stat, that ability/spell is completely dependent upon that stat. Crappy stat, crappy spell. Spells aren't dependent upon Attack, they are dependent upon Weapon Damage.
However, spells only scale with one. Concerning Diablo, or even WoW, when someone says a spell or ability scales off a particular stat, that ability/spell is completely dependent upon that stat. Crappy stat, crappy spell. Spells aren't dependent upon Attack, they are dependent upon Weapon Damage.
you were fine until here. wrong, just like i said. spell damage scales/increases/improves with both attack AND weapon base damage. lol..... you always seem to argue for no reason at all. your post was pointless and were back where we started.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"once the pretty hardcore gamers we had testing inferno found it fairly difficult, we then we doubled it" -trolololol jay wilson
^ That makes no sense at all. Weapon damage and attack can potentially increase your spell damage in the exect same way. The same way attack is more sigficant with better damage weapons, better damage weapon is more significant with more attack.
The entire point is our Spells only scale with Weapon Damage, period. You can stack Attack until you are blue in the face, but our spells will still hit like a wet noodle. Get a decent weapon and our spells will be significantly better. A great weapon and lots of Attack, perfect.
I'd address the rest of your post, but I'd end up repeating the same thing over and over...
the whole point of this thread is because the blue post is worded poorly. the fact that you need to explain it in the first place proves that its wrong. lol
Sigh....I need to explain it because you don't understand. I don't know if you ever will, based upon your most recent post. The blue post is fine and correct.
scale, if you read it in the dictionary. means 1. asuccessionorprogressionofstepsordegrees;graduated series:
progression: increasing, moving forward, climbing
they ARE interchangable. lol...
It's like hitting my head against a brick wall. Weapon Damage, Damage, and Attack all increase how hard our spells can hit. Hopefully everyone agrees with that. However, spells only scale with one. Concerning Diablo, or even WoW, when someone says a spell or ability scales off a particular stat, that ability/spell is completely dependent upon that stat. Crappy stat, crappy spell. Spells aren't dependent upon Attack, they are dependent upon Weapon Damage.
Crappy attack means crappy spell damage, even with a good weapon.
However, spells only scale with one. Concerning Diablo, or even WoW, when someone says a spell or ability scales off a particular stat, that ability/spell is completely dependent upon that stat. Crappy stat, crappy spell. Spells aren't dependent upon Attack, they are dependent upon Weapon Damage.
you were fine until here. wrong, just like i said. spell damage scales/increases/improves with both attack AND weapon base damage. lol.....
So I'm wrong, the Blue quote is wrong, the beta is wrong....
you always seem to argue for no reason at all.
Coming from you, this is absolutely a good thing. Based upon your posting history, if you don't agree, chances are good I'm correct. Thanks for that.
Crappy attack means crappy spell damage, even with a good weapon.
This doesn't invalidate anything I've said. It will certainly be true as we progress in the game and our Damage increases. However at lower levels, you don't need Attack to have high dps. It helps, but the help it gives is so small compared to Weapon Damage. But that doesn't have much to do with the fact that spells scale with one stat.
Please post a definition of what "scale" is because as far as I kno, scaling means how that skill will progress as you advance in the game.
In D2 sorc's skill's damage scales with +skill items.
In D2 barb's damage scales with better weapons and +skill items.
In WoW warlock's skill damage scales with +spell damage, levels and other stuff.
In D3 skill damage scales with weapon damage. And weapon damage scales with attack and basic weapon damage. So skill damage scales indirectly with attack.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"In time the hissing of her sanity
Faded out her voice and soiled her name
And like marked pages in a diary
Everything seemed clean that is unstained
The incoherent talk of ordinary days
Why would we really need to live?
Decide what is clear and what's within a haze
What you should take and what to give" - Opeth
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
this video about the "caster damage" part doesnt make sense. even the blue post about it is wrong or just worded wrong. because attack effects damage and is on most weapons and effects all damage even casters. his video is therefor spreading confused false info and needs to be corrected.
the WD spell "soul harvest" increases attack, why would a caster have a spell like that if it doesnt help him at all?
they REALLY need to reclerify this. because if this is the case then the attack attribute on all weapons is 100% useless for casters or anything that boosts damage such as "adds 1-6 lightning damage". this would severely gimp the WD and Wiz damage wise. unless there spell damage was super increased for every skill i dont see this being true.
**its confirmed attack effects caster spells in the beta. so this is definitely worded badly.
Yes, when you mouse over the Attack stat it says increases all damage, not specifically phyiscal or melee damage. Spells were increased by the Attack stat before the change to weapon damage, and after the change.
Your gloves have attack on them?
I forgot to mention that precision will also increase spell DPS via critical strikes & crit damage.
good. so then the blue post doesnt make sense when it says "ONLY effected by weapon damage". implying the 1 and only. lol. i can maybe see why the "+lightning dmg" shit doesnt work for spells and only melee, but i still think its lame and should be changed.
anything that "increases" something makes it "scale". does weapon damage not increase? therefor making the spells "scale"? exactly how attack power does. so you would say "spells scale with attack power" just as you would say "spells scale with weapon damage" because they do. therefor its another thing they scale with. it IS worded badly.
Yes and no. Increasing damage and "scaling" are different. While both refer to ways a spell can do more damage, if a spell "scales" with a stat, that stat affects spells much more than anything else. Attack increases the damage your spells do above and beyond that. The value of Attack is also directly dependent upon your weapon damage. You can do a lot of damage with a good weapon yet have no Attack items. Alternately, if you simply stack Attack and have a crappy beginner weapon, your spells won't do much of anything. So essentially your spells and Attack both scale with weapon damage.
Yeah, I heard that part. While other stats may increase the damage your spells do, really that increase is minimal at best on it's own. So if we are being pedantic, yeah what he said wasn't quite right.
im sorry but thats not right at all. what your saying doesnt even make sense. attack doesnt "Scale" with weapon damage. it increases by a certain amount per item that has + to attack. your "attack" is an attribute that you stack to increase your overall dmg. spells SCALE from a combination of weapon dmg + the attack attribute. both are in the equation to scale your overall dmg output are they not?
First, you need to stop confusing "scale" with "increase", as they are not the same. While a spell's damage is increased by several stats, it scales with only one.
What we know...
Spells ONLY scale with weapon damage. How do we know this? A blue post saying exactly that, spell tooltips show that they do a % of weapon damage, and it's easily provable in the beta. There's no question about this, so arguing that spells scale with Attack is fruitless. There's just nothing to back that claim up. But I think once you stop using "scale" and "increase" interchangeably, you'll see this.
As far as Attack goes, it will certainly increase the damage spells will do. No one is saying otherwise (well, except maybe Force in his video). How do we know spells don't scale with Attack? Blue post and very easily provable in the beta. What happens if you were to add an item with +35 Attack to a naked toon? Your dps would go up a point or two, if that. Now, what happens when you have a nice weapon and some +Damage gear? That 35 Attack is worth significantly more. Why? Because Attack = a % of your total Damage. 35 Attack = 35% Damage. Which is higher....35% of 10 or 35% of 100? Attack scales indirectly with your Weapon Damage and directly with the total Damage you can do. No Damage? Attack is next to worthless. Lots of Damage? Attack is more valuable.
If I could just find the DPS equation, it would put this whole thing to rest...
the whole point of this thread is because the blue post is worded poorly. the fact that you need to explain it in the first place proves that its wrong. lol
scale, if you read it in the dictionary. means 1.
a succession or progression of steps or degrees; graduated series:
progression: increasing, moving forward, climbing
they ARE interchangable. lol...
but saying "your attack attribute increases (scales) with your weapon damage" is completely false. attack scales/increases with how much you get of the attribute from all of your gear, NOT just attack on your weapon. so if you have 10 base attack and you wear gloves that add +7 its scaling with your gloves, not your weapon. and if you have a weapon that doesnt have any attack on it, then it doesnt scale at all with your weapon.
if you had a white weapon with 20 dmg, and you have 10 base attack. and then u get a white weapon with 40 dmg, your attack would STILL be 10. were talking an attribute, NOT overall damage which i think thats what your confusing "attack" with. regardless of what attack does is irrelavant. the attribute itself does not increase without + to it from gear.
^ That makes no sense at all. Weapon damage and attack can potentially increase your spell damage in the exect same way. The same way attack is more sigficant with better damage weapons, better damage weapon is more significant with more attack.
A +2 damage ring in a chracter with 20 attack will give +2.4 damage. A +2 damage ring in a character with 1000 attack will give +20 damage.One bonus is a raw increase, the other is a multiplicative increase. I don't know why you call one scales and other increase.
What Force meant was Weapon Damage is the sole stat that determines your skill damage. However Weapon Damage depends on your Attack and your Base Weapon Damage.
The entire point is our Spells only scale with Weapon Damage, period. You can stack Attack until you are blue in the face, but our spells will still hit like a wet noodle. Get a decent weapon and our spells will be significantly better. A great weapon and lots of Attack, perfect.
I'd address the rest of your post, but I'd end up repeating the same thing over and over...
Sigh....I need to explain it because you don't understand. I don't know if you ever will, based upon your most recent post. The blue post is fine and correct.
It's like hitting my head against a brick wall. Weapon Damage, Damage, and Attack all increase how hard our spells can hit. Hopefully everyone agrees with that. However, spells only scale with one. Concerning Diablo, or even WoW, when someone says a spell or ability scales off a particular stat, that ability/spell is completely dependent upon that stat. Crappy stat, crappy spell. Spells aren't dependent upon Attack, they are dependent upon Weapon Damage.
you were fine until here. wrong, just like i said. spell damage scales/increases/improves with both attack AND weapon base damage. lol..... you always seem to argue for no reason at all. your post was pointless and were back where we started.
Crappy attack means crappy spell damage, even with a good weapon.
So I'm wrong, the Blue quote is wrong, the beta is wrong....
Coming from you, this is absolutely a good thing. Based upon your posting history, if you don't agree, chances are good I'm correct. Thanks for that.
This doesn't invalidate anything I've said. It will certainly be true as we progress in the game and our Damage increases. However at lower levels, you don't need Attack to have high dps. It helps, but the help it gives is so small compared to Weapon Damage. But that doesn't have much to do with the fact that spells scale with one stat.
In D2 sorc's skill's damage scales with +skill items.
In D2 barb's damage scales with better weapons and +skill items.
In WoW warlock's skill damage scales with +spell damage, levels and other stuff.
In D3 skill damage scales with weapon damage. And weapon damage scales with attack and basic weapon damage. So skill damage scales indirectly with attack.