I have got to think that they're WAY over-thinking PVP at this point.
I always thought a great offering would be just to let players create PvP games. The games would spawn in random, open locations such as Fields of Misery, Weeping Hollow, Southern Highlands, Festering Woods and Leoric's Hunting Grounds.
These areas would be devoid of re-zoneable caves/side areas and monsters. These games could house 6-8 players. Allow hostiling so that players could choose to team up, or just all out free-for-all. Nerf the damage output by some high number to allow longer skirmishes.
Sounds fun to me. This 'Brawling' thing is fucking dumb. It's lifeless and unattractive. The DPS output isn't nerfed so 1 shots are the norm. The area is clogged and small. They literally put zero thought into this temporary salve.
PvP entices me, but most "arena" concepts do not intrigue me much. I don't care for forced structure in PvP. Allow the players to take care of that part. We do not require Blizz to tell us how to duel. Eventually, players will come up with their own, PRIVATE duels/tournaments. With the implementation of Clans, inter-Clan PvP would be big. We'd see websites spring up to organize tourneys, complete with pot-luck prizes, just like we had with GM melee duels in D2.
PvP entices me, but most "arena" concepts do not intrigue me much. I don't care for forced structure in PvP. Allow the players to take care of that part. We do not require Blizz to tell us how to duel. Eventually, players will come up with their own, PRIVATE duels/tournaments. With the implementation of Clans, inter-Clan PvP would be big. We'd see websites spring up to organize tourneys, complete with pot-luck prizes, just like we had with GM melee duels in D2.
You lost me here. If people will just naturally make a pvp system on their own, then why can't they do that with Brawling?
I have got to think that they're WAY over-thinking PVP at this point.
Honestly, this. There were some issues with PvP (particularly griefing/PKing) from D2 that justifiably needed to be solved, but I don't think it needed any evolution beyond that.
PvP entices me, but most "arena" concepts do not intrigue me much. I don't care for forced structure in PvP. Allow the players to take care of that part. We do not require Blizz to tell us how to duel. Eventually, players will come up with their own, PRIVATE duels/tournaments. With the implementation of Clans, inter-Clan PvP would be big. We'd see websites spring up to organize tourneys, complete with pot-luck prizes, just like we had with GM melee duels in D2.
You lost me here. If people will just naturally make a pvp system on their own, then why can't they do that with Brawling?
Because our hands are tied in this respect. The area is too small and clogged with shit. The DPS output isn't mitigated to reflect proper PvP play. It was literally the most lazy and unimaginative resolution they could possibly come up with.
Larger areas/zones creates room to move, the ability to use the geography to your advantage without being stuck in a small, 100 yard x 100 yard cluster fuck.
You lost me here. If people will just naturally make a pvp system on their own, then why can't they do that with Brawling?
Have you tried brawling? If you think D2 PvP was terrible, D3's version is even worse... first one to click wins.
D2 PvP was terrible unless people actually got together and organized. Which we did and it was beyond fun. Shit......sometimes just slapping on some OP gear and hitting random games was a blast.
D2 PvP was beautifully simplistic. It could be well organized and private, OR, an all out wild west fire fight.
Because our hands are tied in this respect. The area is too small and clogged with shit. The DPS output isn't mitigated to reflect proper PvP play. It was literally the most lazy and unimaginative resolution they could possibly come up with.
Larger areas/zones creates room to move, the ability to use the geography to your advantage without being stuck in a small, 100 yard x 100 yard cluster fuck.
So which is more important? That they adjust/scale damage so fights don't end too quick? Or that we have a "proper" location in which to have duels?
D2 PvP was terrible unless people actually got together and organized. Which we did and it was beyond fun. Shit......sometimes just slapping on some OP gear and hitting random games was a blast.
D2 PvP was beautifully simplistic. It could be well organized and private, OR, an all out wild west fire fight.
The hardcore PvP crowd did make fun, but a lot of people who weren’t hardcore into PvP didn't find it very... "Balanced". I enjoyed the odd PvP and player self-control made it a lot better, but what we have in D3 isn't even worth one pixel.
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Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
So which is more important? That they adjust/scale damage so fights don't end too quick? Or that we have a "proper" location in which to have duels?
Both, but if you had to pick one it's adjusting damage.
Sorry for the double post, wasn't thinking.
Yep. Both.
Being melted by a WD that you barely caught a glimpse of, gets old in less than 1 min of play.
The importance of geography plays into this as well. You can kite, guide and access your opponent from a distance in larger areas.
Brawling was just a continuation of the same linear thought we see in softcore play. Forsake your defense, you won't need it, it won't help. Stack DPS and hope you hit first.
If they would've just bothered to nerf DPS in Brawling, it would at least deserve to be played. I spent years, hundreds of hours in PvP games in D2. In D3, I tried it for 5 minutes....never touching it again.
I'm betting all my money on the next X-pack for PVP, and why not, they got people used to the idea that it's not here or coming anytime soon. They can market PVP as part of the new expansion among other things to shovel coal in the hype train and sell tons of copies.
Mystic anyone? Improved loot? even though it's going to be a patch, it will coincide with the launch of RoS. Point is they waited until the release of RoS to add and fix things that were meant to be added and fixed in vanilla D3.
Blizzard knows how to market their products. They'll take a few punches for it, but people will line up to give them their money regardless.
It's very true that we spoil our own fun, no arguments there. I just believe people are concerned that it's almost been two years since release of D3 and they still have no clue as what to do with PVP (or maybe they do and they saving it for next X-Pac, which could be a MAJOR selling point). That and the fact that most of the data-mined info has been confirmed as true so far. In my opinion I believe they are making the right, albeit slow decision to fix the game as it stands now by giving us a better loot system, better PVE experience, and an awesome endgame. I do believe PVP will come eventually but I'm not holding my breath anymore. It will come when it comes.
There's no way they really have figured out PvP and are just saving it to use as a major selling point for a future expansion pack. It was advertised as part of the original game, albeit with the caveat that it wouldn't be included until after launch. If they tried to tie any future PvP game mode to the purchase of an expansion, there would be some pretty serious legal consequences to that. They would be wide open to lawsuits for false advertising. When and if they ever figure out something beyond the simple brawling that we currently have, it will have to be free for anybody who owns the original game.
It's very true that we spoil our own fun, no arguments there. I just believe people are concerned that it's almost been two years since release of D3 and they still have no clue as what to do with PVP (or maybe they do and they saving it for next X-Pac, which could be a MAJOR selling point). That and the fact that most of the data-mined info has been confirmed as true so far. In my opinion I believe they are making the right, albeit slow decision to fix the game as it stands now by giving us a better loot system, better PVE experience, and an awesome endgame. I do believe PVP will come eventually but I'm not holding my breath anymore. It will come when it comes.
There's no way they really have figured out PvP and are just saving it to use as a major selling point for a future expansion pack. It was advertised as part of the original game, albeit with the caveat that it wouldn't be included until after launch. If they tried to tie any future PvP game mode to the purchase of an expansion, there would be some pretty serious legal consequences to that. They would be wide open to lawsuits for false advertising. When and if they ever figure out something beyond the simple brawling that we currently have, it will have to be free for anybody who owns the original game.
Oh yes they could, Loot 2.0 is does not require you to buy RoS, it's a free patch, that also happens to coincide with the release of RoS, they can do the same thing with a PVP patch, that just so happens to coincide with the release of the new X-pac.
I have got to think that they're WAY over-thinking PVP at this point.
I think that's pretty much a given. Blizzard's policy seems pretty firmly against doing features like this 'just because'. I don't even PvP, but I really can't see the harm in doing exactly as you suggest... but for better or worse, Blizzard has decided to try and give us something much more involved.
Look at WoW and player housing... I'm sure most people just wanted a little phased area somewhere in a capital city of choice, with trophies, beer and maybe a wench/toy-boy of choice. Instead, right from the beginning, Blizzard insisted that they wanted something that's much more deeply integrated into the rest of the game, and eventually, in the 5th expansion, delivers a giant-ass housing-on-steroids minigame in the form of garrisons.
For me, though, even as someone who has no intention of PvPing, the issue is longevity. D3 (or RoS) can't keep player attention for that long, particularly given the fact that although they never actually announced PvP as a D3 feature (something far too many people forget), they sure as hell indicated that they were working on it, so it's not unreasonable for people to expect a definitive announcement by now. They really can't wait that much longer before deciding to ditch PvP, drop whatever superawesome idea they've got into the game, or just give us the vanilla PvP D2 had. It's been a year and a half now. I don't care how valid their reasons are for delaying it, they simply don't have forever to get this done.
particularly given the fact that although they never actually announced PvP as a D3 feature (something far too many people forget), they sure as hell indicated that they were working on it,
Yes, they did. PvP is even listed on the game box, and was included in the ~1 minute trailer for the game that was all over the internet shortly before launch (with small text on the bottom stating it would be available soon after launch). PvP isn't some vague, empty hope, it is a promised game mode that still has not been delivered >1.5 years after launch. I'm actually surprised nobody has tried to sue Blizzard yet.
Because in that video all the players have pre-determined gear an builds that are balanced for the gameplay demo, of you put that in game instead of brawling at the moment, the first team to cast a high damage AoE spell would win.
Because in that video all the players have pre-determined gear an builds that are balanced for the gameplay demo, of you put that in game instead of brawling at the moment, the first team to cast a high damage AoE spell would win.
Would still be better than our current brawling system. Just to be able to make teams and keep score. People would make their own rules and tourneys. Arena seems nice too.
Because in that video all the players have pre-determined gear an builds that are balanced for the gameplay demo, of you put that in game instead of brawling at the moment, the first team to cast a high damage AoE spell would win.
It doesn't take much code to globally reduce dmg by 1/16th. Btw, that's what they did in D2.
And if you want to complicate it and tweak things individually, the skills we use already have a separate function for players and monsters. They just happen to be using the same values at the moment, unless they scrapped that too.
But even just a global dmg reduction would be leaps and bounds better than what we have now. Even better if it's like the video.
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I always thought a great offering would be just to let players create PvP games. The games would spawn in random, open locations such as Fields of Misery, Weeping Hollow, Southern Highlands, Festering Woods and Leoric's Hunting Grounds.
These areas would be devoid of re-zoneable caves/side areas and monsters. These games could house 6-8 players. Allow hostiling so that players could choose to team up, or just all out free-for-all. Nerf the damage output by some high number to allow longer skirmishes.
Sounds fun to me. This 'Brawling' thing is fucking dumb. It's lifeless and unattractive. The DPS output isn't nerfed so 1 shots are the norm. The area is clogged and small. They literally put zero thought into this temporary salve.
PvP entices me, but most "arena" concepts do not intrigue me much. I don't care for forced structure in PvP. Allow the players to take care of that part. We do not require Blizz to tell us how to duel. Eventually, players will come up with their own, PRIVATE duels/tournaments. With the implementation of Clans, inter-Clan PvP would be big. We'd see websites spring up to organize tourneys, complete with pot-luck prizes, just like we had with GM melee duels in D2.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
You lost me here. If people will just naturally make a pvp system on their own, then why can't they do that with Brawling?
Honestly, this. There were some issues with PvP (particularly griefing/PKing) from D2 that justifiably needed to be solved, but I don't think it needed any evolution beyond that.
Have you tried brawling? If you think D2 PvP was terrible, D3's version is even worse... first one to click wins.
Because our hands are tied in this respect. The area is too small and clogged with shit. The DPS output isn't mitigated to reflect proper PvP play. It was literally the most lazy and unimaginative resolution they could possibly come up with.
Larger areas/zones creates room to move, the ability to use the geography to your advantage without being stuck in a small, 100 yard x 100 yard cluster fuck.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
D2 PvP was terrible unless people actually got together and organized. Which we did and it was beyond fun. Shit......sometimes just slapping on some OP gear and hitting random games was a blast.
D2 PvP was beautifully simplistic. It could be well organized and private, OR, an all out wild west fire fight.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
So which is more important? That they adjust/scale damage so fights don't end too quick? Or that we have a "proper" location in which to have duels?
The hardcore PvP crowd did make fun, but a lot of people who weren’t hardcore into PvP didn't find it very... "Balanced". I enjoyed the odd PvP and player self-control made it a lot better, but what we have in D3 isn't even worth one pixel.
Both, but if you had to pick one it's adjusting damage.
Sorry for the double post, wasn't thinking.
Yep. Both.
Being melted by a WD that you barely caught a glimpse of, gets old in less than 1 min of play.
The importance of geography plays into this as well. You can kite, guide and access your opponent from a distance in larger areas.
Brawling was just a continuation of the same linear thought we see in softcore play. Forsake your defense, you won't need it, it won't help. Stack DPS and hope you hit first.
If they would've just bothered to nerf DPS in Brawling, it would at least deserve to be played. I spent years, hundreds of hours in PvP games in D2. In D3, I tried it for 5 minutes....never touching it again.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
Mystic anyone? Improved loot? even though it's going to be a patch, it will coincide with the launch of RoS. Point is they waited until the release of RoS to add and fix things that were meant to be added and fixed in vanilla D3.
Blizzard knows how to market their products. They'll take a few punches for it, but people will line up to give them their money regardless.
You're a wizard Harry.....
There's no way they really have figured out PvP and are just saving it to use as a major selling point for a future expansion pack. It was advertised as part of the original game, albeit with the caveat that it wouldn't be included until after launch. If they tried to tie any future PvP game mode to the purchase of an expansion, there would be some pretty serious legal consequences to that. They would be wide open to lawsuits for false advertising. When and if they ever figure out something beyond the simple brawling that we currently have, it will have to be free for anybody who owns the original game.
Oh yes they could, Loot 2.0 is does not require you to buy RoS, it's a free patch, that also happens to coincide with the release of RoS, they can do the same thing with a PVP patch, that just so happens to coincide with the release of the new X-pac.
You're a wizard Harry.....
Damn, even the name is retarded.
I think that's pretty much a given. Blizzard's policy seems pretty firmly against doing features like this 'just because'. I don't even PvP, but I really can't see the harm in doing exactly as you suggest... but for better or worse, Blizzard has decided to try and give us something much more involved.
Look at WoW and player housing... I'm sure most people just wanted a little phased area somewhere in a capital city of choice, with trophies, beer and maybe a wench/toy-boy of choice. Instead, right from the beginning, Blizzard insisted that they wanted something that's much more deeply integrated into the rest of the game, and eventually, in the 5th expansion, delivers a giant-ass housing-on-steroids minigame in the form of garrisons.
For me, though, even as someone who has no intention of PvPing, the issue is longevity. D3 (or RoS) can't keep player attention for that long, particularly given the fact that although they never actually announced PvP as a D3 feature (something far too many people forget), they sure as hell indicated that they were working on it, so it's not unreasonable for people to expect a definitive announcement by now. They really can't wait that much longer before deciding to ditch PvP, drop whatever superawesome idea they've got into the game, or just give us the vanilla PvP D2 had. It's been a year and a half now. I don't care how valid their reasons are for delaying it, they simply don't have forever to get this done.
Yes, they did. PvP is even listed on the game box, and was included in the ~1 minute trailer for the game that was all over the internet shortly before launch (with small text on the bottom stating it would be available soon after launch). PvP isn't some vague, empty hope, it is a promised game mode that still has not been delivered >1.5 years after launch. I'm actually surprised nobody has tried to sue Blizzard yet.
http://youtu.be/lZrGE3VLiSk
You're a wizard Harry.....
Would still be better than our current brawling system. Just to be able to make teams and keep score. People would make their own rules and tourneys. Arena seems nice too.
You're a wizard Harry.....
It doesn't take much code to globally reduce dmg by 1/16th. Btw, that's what they did in D2.
And if you want to complicate it and tweak things individually, the skills we use already have a separate function for players and monsters. They just happen to be using the same values at the moment, unless they scrapped that too.
But even just a global dmg reduction would be leaps and bounds better than what we have now. Even better if it's like the video.