Game is going to get easier and easier to cater to the lazy and whiny.
No, they're making the gear grind more fun, not easier. Base damage of elites is unaffected. And that's the really hard part about them.
I would argue that affixes are the hard part and some of those are getting "tuned". (I am unofficialy starting a campaign to get rid of the word nerf.) Some of them might honestly need a little "tuning" though. It boils down to what is more fun for the player. For me, if I can dump some resist and def gear in favor of pure dps gear that is fun!
I think your definition of "average" player isn't quite correct. The average gamer is NOT some guy between 15 and 25, that can sink 4+ hours a day into Diablo 3 for 3 months straight. Yes, for those people inferno was fine as they have the time to off-screen kite themselves to enough gear so they can actually start playing the game.
In the bussiness model of the gaming industry today, the average gamer is a male, between 30 and 35 years old, with a family and a job. Those people play 5, maybe10 hours a week, if that. The game has been out 3 months. Which % of the "average gamer" described above do you think cleared Inferno? I'm fairly sure Blizzard has the number and I also think it's fair to bet it's below 10%.
I agree fullheartedly. Also factor in that only a very small number of people are content with playing the same game for a long time. Take me for example - I didn't play D3 at all in July. But my interest was recently rekindled and now I'm farming Inferno.
If that means you get the vocal minority on the forums moaning and threatening with leaves, so be it. Blizz knows full well you'll keep playing anyway and are just crying a bit because you don't get it your way.
Ya know, just like when your mom told you no when you asked for that candybar just this afternoon. You whined and cried, but still showed up for dinner anyway.
Lol at the candybar thing.
You make sound arguments. But here I was thinking that the vocal minority was the one that actually disliked the game due to its difficulty. And you're right, a lot of people claiming they quit are still lurking around the forums, waiting to see if something motivates them. I'm not like that, and I'm sure a lot of people here aren't as well. We like, we play it. We don't, we move on. I'm just at the 'undecided' part right now.
On the average gamer, my playing time on my Monk averaged to about 10~11 hours/week when I finished Inferno for the first and only time, which was last weekend. I thought of myself as an average gamer, not yet 30 though, but with a job and a family.
Tou-fucking-ché. A different kind, but you got me there nonetheless.
@devast95: crap is not selling on the AH, so they needed to buff up both their revenues and player's satisfaction. Facilitating access to better drop rates (aka nerfing Inferno once again) will make for more and better items for the players and for the AH, thus increasing supply and bringing down prices. This may not be a long-term situation, but will most likely happen in the near future.
We will probably see a rapid inflation with players being overjoyed with what they find that should decrease and stabilize rather fast.
You can't say that they change this just because of the ah.. no matter what they do with items it will change the ah.. that's how it works.
I didn't say it was 'just because'. I even highlighted that part in the quote. We share the same view then, as in changing items affects the AH. My point was they need to work out a solution for both problems, theirs and ours.
Removing enrage timer and invulnerable minions? Those are the only reasons I'd might start again one day, DERP. No seriously though good changes, those 2 are really boring.
Lowering the the HP in co-op games to 75% and lowering elite packs in general by 10-25% and messing around with thier affixes? they said inferno would be challenging, now they are making it even easier, buffing normal mobs was a good choice but the rest is really hurting the game in my opinion.
I'm very dissapointed with these changes.
Although some mobs do need to get nerfed, the buff those fat shamans in act 3 cast is way to powerfull.
I'm glad to see that 2 handers are getting some love though, it is desperately needed, at least for me as a barbarian, dual wield is just so much more effective now, will be fun going back to a cleave build:)
Magic find and gold find will no longer be averaged in multiplayer games.
Monster health will now be a flat increase of 75% health (per player), regardless of the difficulty in multiplayer.
No more enrage timers on elites.
Elites will no longer heal to full health
They are increases the health of normal monsters (but increasing the drop of magic or rare items by a factor of four), and lowering the health of champions and rares to shrink the gap between them.
They are adjusting fire chains and shielding, and REMOVING Invulnerable Minions.
They want to make all items that drop be good, however this is not something they can fully do in 1.0.4. However weapons of ilvl 61 and 62 can now roll damage that extends all the way to top ilvl 63 weapons
To help with the dual-wielding and two-handers, they will be adding a new set of stronger affixes
Reducing repair costs of high-end items by 25%
Legendary changes will have its own blog post
MANY more blogs to come covering the buffing of unused skills, and big improvements to wd pets.
I agree with some of the changes, disagree with some.
Removing Enrage and the full-heal mechanic is fairly well thought out. Depending on the affix combo (anything with Shielding, Vampiric, and a damage affix), it just wasn't possible to get past them at any reasonable gear level. Now you can take your time and kill them as needed. Same goes with removing Invuln Minions. The presence of the possibility of them was actually warping some builds (Cold Ray wizards being non-viable, for example).
Individual mob nerfs as well, some of them were tough but I feel that nearly all were fair in their base version (fat casters and the A3 shamans aside, for shields and quick-rez). Increasing their health is just annoying, though, since all it does is hurt lower-geared Glass Cannon builds and slow down farmers. Then again, with the multiplied drop rates, people might actually consider white-mob kills to be worthwhile, if they go quickly enough on the normal route. I don't feel that reducing base elite health will be needed after nerfing Shielding and removing Invuln, but that's just me. Perhaps it will work out to about the same health total, depends on how it's calculated (if it's a multiplier on the white-mob version, for example)
Everything else, we'll have to see as further blog posts come out. There is no way to accurately tell what the outcome will be overall until we get most or all of the pieces.
I'm really not worried about the changes to HPs. The affixes the mobs get should provide the difficulty, not creating scenarios where you have to kite for 5 minutes. That's not saying I think the mobs we fight should be glass cannons, but what I am saying is that their "danger" should generally come from their ability to kill us and not their 192308210938213021 bajillion (exaggeration, I know) health pools.
I do worry that reduced HPs is just going to make glass cannoning come back as the dominant way to play. However, reduced HPs does allow stuff like melee wizards/WDs more viability since they tend to be fairly low-damage specs that thrive on ridiculous amounts of LoH procs. *shrug* there's good and bad to it, but it's definitely not all bad.
I cleared inferno on Barb and Wiz, cleared up to 2d half of act 4 prenerf so i'm not teh noob wishing for things to get nerf so i could get gear or smth. Still nonetheless i approve of this changes, imo Blizzard reduces it's own profit for RMAH for players to have a better expirience.
D1-D2-D3 are hack&slash games and aren't supposed to test your button clicking skills - the point of such games is riping through mobs having fun. At this point i'm already riping through mobs so changes won't affect me, but i completly understand many ppls spending hundreds of hrs on this game to be stuck in act 2 becouse loot RNG gods were harsh to them and they didn't get much worth. I've a m8 playing monk who's geared much worse then my alt Wiz becouse he never got anything decent to sell.
So all in all i welcome this changes, both from multiplayer perspective and fun factor. Imo D3 should be a game for fun when they feel like playing instead of complete gearcheck that forces ppls spending more time gearing there then it takes in Blizz signature MMO game.
I find some of the improvments good atleast. I'm myself play a monk and often play with a friend who play a demon hunter. And all the changes to co-op is really good for us. So can't wait for this patch
Was farming with my friend (monk).He has %40 MF w/o NV and I have %191 MF w/o NV.We cleared through Breached Keep + The other dungeon at the just exit of Stronghold + Road to Azmodan. He had 45 rares (above 60), 2 legendaries. I had only 30 rares (55-63..yes.55s.).
I'm glad you don't believe Blizzard because there's no way any sane person would believe you. There is no way that he had 50% more rares than you did in a 3 iLevel range compared to your 8 iLevel range despite you having over double the MF he had.
You don't garner points here by telling outright lies.
Blazbub, while what you said is "possible", I use the word in only the most theoretical sense. The chance of sub-58 rares dropping in A3 Inferno is low, for one, but the chance of sub-61 is fairly high. Given that MF has ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on iLvl of drops, this means that your friend either lied to you or else broke probabilities several orders of magnitude greater than, say, winning the lottery in four states on the same day. Also note that you two had identical MF for that trip, since it's currently averaged among the party.
Well, the game was already easy imo, after soloing inferno on a wizard and on a barb i can say that these nerfs are not necessary and in fact will hurt the game... we need stuff that keeps us entertained and challenged, not some ez mode browser game...
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Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
You seem to GIVE A CRAP about D2 whenever it comes to things you hate about D3.
Why aren't others able to do the same?
Right, I forgot, you're just trolling. My bad.
EDIT
For the record "easy" is not an objective evaluation of the game, it's a very subjective evaluation. Now, I'm guessing that Blizzard has some pretty extensive data on how we play the game. And I'm going to go real far out on a limb here (sarcasm) and guess that they see some patterns which indicate these changes are necessary.
i bring up the "D2 card" because i often read in the forums "we want D3 to be more like D2"
with ~5 million players its impossible to satisfy everyone, so Blizzard must determine who are the 99% and who are the 1%
and as i pointed out i would guess the people who cleared and farm inferno are the 1% ...
Dude, D2 is still alive. If you want to play D2... then go play D2. Blizzard created an entirely new game that isn't meant to completely eclipse the old one. If you didn't want change, why did you even want a D3 in the first place?
I am lookin forward to this patch. As I prefer to play Co-Op. Hope it is better but what looks good on paper may not always be better. So, at least Blizz is working to make D3 better.
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I would argue that affixes are the hard part and some of those are getting "tuned". (I am unofficialy starting a campaign to get rid of the word nerf.) Some of them might honestly need a little "tuning" though. It boils down to what is more fun for the player. For me, if I can dump some resist and def gear in favor of pure dps gear that is fun!
Lol at the candybar thing.
You make sound arguments. But here I was thinking that the vocal minority was the one that actually disliked the game due to its difficulty. And you're right, a lot of people claiming they quit are still lurking around the forums, waiting to see if something motivates them. I'm not like that, and I'm sure a lot of people here aren't as well. We like, we play it. We don't, we move on. I'm just at the 'undecided' part right now.
On the average gamer, my playing time on my Monk averaged to about 10~11 hours/week when I finished Inferno for the first and only time, which was last weekend. I thought of myself as an average gamer, not yet 30 though, but with a job and a family.
I didn't say it was 'just because'. I even highlighted that part in the quote. We share the same view then, as in changing items affects the AH. My point was they need to work out a solution for both problems, theirs and ours.
I'm very dissapointed with these changes.
Although some mobs do need to get nerfed, the buff those fat shamans in act 3 cast is way to powerfull.
I'm glad to see that 2 handers are getting some love though, it is desperately needed, at least for me as a barbarian, dual wield is just so much more effective now, will be fun going back to a cleave build:)
Sounds good to me.
Removing Enrage and the full-heal mechanic is fairly well thought out. Depending on the affix combo (anything with Shielding, Vampiric, and a damage affix), it just wasn't possible to get past them at any reasonable gear level. Now you can take your time and kill them as needed. Same goes with removing Invuln Minions. The presence of the possibility of them was actually warping some builds (Cold Ray wizards being non-viable, for example).
Individual mob nerfs as well, some of them were tough but I feel that nearly all were fair in their base version (fat casters and the A3 shamans aside, for shields and quick-rez). Increasing their health is just annoying, though, since all it does is hurt lower-geared Glass Cannon builds and slow down farmers. Then again, with the multiplied drop rates, people might actually consider white-mob kills to be worthwhile, if they go quickly enough on the normal route. I don't feel that reducing base elite health will be needed after nerfing Shielding and removing Invuln, but that's just me. Perhaps it will work out to about the same health total, depends on how it's calculated (if it's a multiplier on the white-mob version, for example)
Everything else, we'll have to see as further blog posts come out. There is no way to accurately tell what the outcome will be overall until we get most or all of the pieces.
I do worry that reduced HPs is just going to make glass cannoning come back as the dominant way to play. However, reduced HPs does allow stuff like melee wizards/WDs more viability since they tend to be fairly low-damage specs that thrive on ridiculous amounts of LoH procs. *shrug* there's good and bad to it, but it's definitely not all bad.
D1-D2-D3 are hack&slash games and aren't supposed to test your button clicking skills - the point of such games is riping through mobs having fun. At this point i'm already riping through mobs so changes won't affect me, but i completly understand many ppls spending hundreds of hrs on this game to be stuck in act 2 becouse loot RNG gods were harsh to them and they didn't get much worth. I've a m8 playing monk who's geared much worse then my alt Wiz becouse he never got anything decent to sell.
So all in all i welcome this changes, both from multiplayer perspective and fun factor. Imo D3 should be a game for fun when they feel like playing instead of complete gearcheck that forces ppls spending more time gearing there then it takes in Blizz signature MMO game.
I'm glad you don't believe Blizzard because there's no way any sane person would believe you. There is no way that he had 50% more rares than you did in a 3 iLevel range compared to your 8 iLevel range despite you having over double the MF he had.
You don't garner points here by telling outright lies.
Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
WHO GIVES A CRAP about D2. We are talking D3, and Inferno, is already easy.
Why aren't others able to do the same?
Right, I forgot, you're just trolling. My bad.
EDIT
For the record "easy" is not an objective evaluation of the game, it's a very subjective evaluation. Now, I'm guessing that Blizzard has some pretty extensive data on how we play the game. And I'm going to go real far out on a limb here (sarcasm) and guess that they see some patterns which indicate these changes are necessary.