I don't think people see how much better the skill system is in Diablo 3. Everyone says that there is no customization. Has no one played Diablo 2? Everyone had the exact character build. Yes okay there were different builds but in the end everyone poured their skill points into the same best skills/synergies. In Diablo 3, skills are based on weapon damage and not based on the level of a skill. So, when you hit level 60, you might feel inclined to use a skill you unlocked at level 6.. and it will still be useful. So yes there will be many more builds in Diablo 3.
People dislike the fact that permanence has been removed from character builds, because now they won't be able to lord their supreme builds over others for quite as long. This seems silly and childish, but for someone who's whole life revolves around the game, it could be a big letdown ^^
People don't like change. They want to be like D2, where they can point to their build and say "I have the best build for this class, anyone not using my build is an idiot!" and want it to stay that way. They don't want choices for people other than themselves.
It's that simple. Same old unique snowflake people that you see in other games, Diablo version. Just put those people on ignore, and the forums will be much easier to read.
Yes, I understand you receive all the skills. But who cares? Every skill is useful in end game unlike Diablo 2. Plus in Diablo 2, you put your skill points in the same skill as everyone else. All fire words are the same, all hammerdins use the exact same skills etc. So how is having the same build more fun then having every skill but having a different build than everyone?
I think the people that whine about the lack of a skill tree are the people that can't think by theirselves. They are given the chance to be effective at this game without having to look on forums, the chance to play AND have fun at the same time, but all they want is someone else to figure out for them how they should play.
I've always been the type to try new innovative builds that were FUN to play for me (in WoW, D2 and other games). We are given the chance to try different builds without having to level a new character, and people are not happy.
I think no matter what blizz do, there will always be people to say they don't like it, no matter how great of an idea it is.
In pve there will be really good builds but it's really probable that you'll have to change builds in order to adapt to certain situations :/
And actually this may be the part that some of the people won't like. They might have to adapt things themselves on the fly rather than just go to a website, put in their build, and forget about it.
I'm all for the D3 method. Adapting as needed is fun, imo. If I like a build, but there's this one boss it doesn't work for? In D2, I just go around that boss, unless it's an Act boss. In D3, I adapt my build to do the job, and go on with my fun. I know which way I like best.
People dislike the fact that permanence has been removed from character builds, because now they won't be able to lord their supreme builds over others for quite as long. This seems silly and childish, but for someone who's whole life revolves around the game, it could be a big letdown ^^
But no one had the 'Supreme Build'. yes every character has an ultimate build but everyone knew what it was and used it. So pvp was based on items+player skill not skill customization
Also, people seem to forget that while you do have access to all the skills ingame, you can only use 6 of them at a time. So there is permanence... at least until the next encounter.
Also, people seem to forget that while you do have access to all the skills ingame, you can only use 6 of them at a time. So there is permanence... at least until the next encounter.
i think having all the skills (also all being useful) at your disposal is great. For example, in diablo 2, Say you were a fire sorc in d2 and you ran into a unique monster who was immune to fire... you were screwed and basically have to skip him. in D3, if you ran into a problem you can retreat, evaluate your skill choices and attempt it again with a different load out.
Playing during open beta weekend I found that every level when I unlocked something I was changing my whole build, and every single one played differently. One level on my Wizard I had spectral blades with ray of frost, wave of force, and frost nova. Then when I unlocked the Arcane Orb rune I went to that, magic missile, with diamond skin.
I had FUN because I was experimenting and actually trying skills. There's some Paladin auras from D2 that I've never used simply because they're not fanaticism or conviction.
The new system is so much more fun. Tried to play d2 again a few weeks back. Couldnt even make it out of act 1. Its so dull until lvl 30, and then its just the same 2-3 skills over and over and over and over until you reach hell...yeah thats fun, isnt it?
I much prefer the ability to have powerful and fun skills all the way, and dont have to play half the game with skills i dont want to use.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I can see what you see not. Vision milky, then eyes rot.
When you turn, they will be gone. Whispering their hidden song.
Then you see what cannot be. Shadows move where light should be.
Out of darkness, out of mind. Cast down into the Halls of the Blind
It's because a lot of people complaining are visual learners. No amount of explaining to them how many more choices or options we have available to us in D3 is going to sate them. Logic and arguments don't factor in. It won't be until they actually play with the system itself that they'll be able to say, "Oh yeah. This is lots better."
Hah! I love this forum. Sane people comment in the right angle, together.
So True! You go to ign.com and half the posters are haters. Diablo3.com and there are a lot of fans, but also a lot of trolls who got their free copy of Diablo 3 from their annual WOW pass. The community HERE is great!
in D3, if you ran into a problem you can retreat, evaluate your skill choices and attempt it again with a different load out.
How anyone can see this as a positive thing....truly baffles the mind.
And why people still think that having very strict restrictions to your choices is a positive thing, baffles me to no end. In D2 you basically had a strong build of three or four skills which you then spammed. In D3 it's not so much that your skills should be well complemented, but you also need to take the enemy into consideration. And that excites me, because that would imply that the player has to think, rather than just act.
But it's a difference of opinion. Some don't like it, others do.
Yes, it's fun to experiment when you don't know the game. Now fast-forward to 3 years from now...What do you see? Still playing the same chars you started on May 15th? Boring. Started new chars, the the levelling process is the exact same as the from the chars you started on May 15th? Beyond boring.
So, creating characters over and over, having to sit through the game over and over at low levels is fun? I disagree. I created many characters in D2, more than I can count, but eventually I hated the bore of the entire process, I felt like I would hurl if I ever played act 1 again. So I mostly preferred to play with characters I actually got right. It's like the game forces you to constantly run into a wall, repeatedly, until you find the sweet spot that will actually allow you to progress. It may have worked a decade ago, but I would like to think that we have evolved beyond that point.
One question though, isn't the idea of just having four skills that you spam over and over for sixty levels more boring than having the choice of swapping things out?
Over time I think many have come around to appreciate what the D3 skills system actually achieves. I was skeptical, but I think its a good way of bringing us into a new way that a game can work in. After all, even games need to evolve. The reason I think people are so against it is the radical nature of the change, but each Diablo system had their limitations:
Diablo's tome system heavily relied on randomization. It wasn't bad, but it just didn't make you feel good on your own merits.
The Diablo 2 skill system was limited by skill points, where you could only choose to advance as far as you've leveled. You could still place points in as many skills as you want, but that would reflect badly on your strength to progress. That was the main negative point about the skill trees, it was very restrictive in how you needed to spend your points.
In Diablo 3 you are restricted by the fact that you can only ever have 6 skills active. It's definitely an evolution on the Diablo formula and it still requires careful consideration. What it doesn't require is sacrifice and hesitance, which is why some people dislike it. I don't think it's because you can change skills whenever, because you'll still have different runes and skills that the guy next to you, I think it's mostly because they want their time and effort to pay off. In a way they want to be the ones who build the best builds, who post them online so others can see. Funny enough, they still can do that, you can still make characters that excel in many ways.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It's that simple. Same old unique snowflake people that you see in other games, Diablo version. Just put those people on ignore, and the forums will be much easier to read.
I've always been the type to try new innovative builds that were FUN to play for me (in WoW, D2 and other games). We are given the chance to try different builds without having to level a new character, and people are not happy.
I think no matter what blizz do, there will always be people to say they don't like it, no matter how great of an idea it is.
Let's keep it that way.
Also I agree with Veggie50
Ha. Bagstone.
And actually this may be the part that some of the people won't like. They might have to adapt things themselves on the fly rather than just go to a website, put in their build, and forget about it.
I'm all for the D3 method. Adapting as needed is fun, imo. If I like a build, but there's this one boss it doesn't work for? In D2, I just go around that boss, unless it's an Act boss. In D3, I adapt my build to do the job, and go on with my fun. I know which way I like best.
But no one had the 'Supreme Build'. yes every character has an ultimate build but everyone knew what it was and used it. So pvp was based on items+player skill not skill customization
i think having all the skills (also all being useful) at your disposal is great. For example, in diablo 2, Say you were a fire sorc in d2 and you ran into a unique monster who was immune to fire... you were screwed and basically have to skip him. in D3, if you ran into a problem you can retreat, evaluate your skill choices and attempt it again with a different load out.
I had FUN because I was experimenting and actually trying skills. There's some Paladin auras from D2 that I've never used simply because they're not fanaticism or conviction.
I much prefer the ability to have powerful and fun skills all the way, and dont have to play half the game with skills i dont want to use.
If you were to implement the new system in D2, bone teeth and bone spirit will be at equal rank and you can use either.
So True! You go to ign.com and half the posters are haters. Diablo3.com and there are a lot of fans, but also a lot of trolls who got their free copy of Diablo 3 from their annual WOW pass. The community HERE is great!
But it's a difference of opinion. Some don't like it, others do.
So, creating characters over and over, having to sit through the game over and over at low levels is fun? I disagree. I created many characters in D2, more than I can count, but eventually I hated the bore of the entire process, I felt like I would hurl if I ever played act 1 again. So I mostly preferred to play with characters I actually got right. It's like the game forces you to constantly run into a wall, repeatedly, until you find the sweet spot that will actually allow you to progress. It may have worked a decade ago, but I would like to think that we have evolved beyond that point.
One question though, isn't the idea of just having four skills that you spam over and over for sixty levels more boring than having the choice of swapping things out?
Over time I think many have come around to appreciate what the D3 skills system actually achieves. I was skeptical, but I think its a good way of bringing us into a new way that a game can work in. After all, even games need to evolve. The reason I think people are so against it is the radical nature of the change, but each Diablo system had their limitations:
Diablo's tome system heavily relied on randomization. It wasn't bad, but it just didn't make you feel good on your own merits.
The Diablo 2 skill system was limited by skill points, where you could only choose to advance as far as you've leveled. You could still place points in as many skills as you want, but that would reflect badly on your strength to progress. That was the main negative point about the skill trees, it was very restrictive in how you needed to spend your points.
In Diablo 3 you are restricted by the fact that you can only ever have 6 skills active. It's definitely an evolution on the Diablo formula and it still requires careful consideration. What it doesn't require is sacrifice and hesitance, which is why some people dislike it. I don't think it's because you can change skills whenever, because you'll still have different runes and skills that the guy next to you, I think it's mostly because they want their time and effort to pay off. In a way they want to be the ones who build the best builds, who post them online so others can see. Funny enough, they still can do that, you can still make characters that excel in many ways.