So I looked in the FAQ or that one stickied thread up top to see what we knew so far of what's going on with Diablo 3 and it didn't seem to contain the information I was looking for.
Ok. So I'm a bit at a loss here and I blame most of that from coming into the discussion rather late.
Couple of questions (thanks for your patience):
So there's no actual manual control over stats?
I understand that Diablo 3 is based more on what you find in loot. That loot is the key factor in character customization.
Does this mean that MOST of the character customization process is inherently luck of the draw?
What's this I read about traits? Is that like Feats in Fallout 3?
If I actually want to make a glass cannon wizard, I have to find the appropriate gear and if I can't find that gear, then I'm just going to have to do with what I find as far as a build goes? Let's assume that I'm not interested in trading at all for now.
If that's the case, you COULD theoretically be playing an entire game of chance and not any real and carefully planned build ideas?
I'm asking because what I've heard about character customization is pretty much nothing resembling what I am familiar with as far as Diablo goes and I guess I'm just looking for some clarity.
I'm sure someone else can answer those questions better than I can (so I'll let them). I do believe the stat allocation is automatic, though.
Also, I noticed you didn't mention skills. Yes, they may be swappable, but skills will still play a large part of your build. Personally, I think the skills would be most of the customization, and the gear and other things are there to complement your skillset.
If I actually want to make a glass cannon wizard, I have to find the appropriate gear and if I can't find that gear, then I'm just going to have to do with what I find as far as a build goes? Let's assume that I'm not interested in trading at all for now.
your characters have some passives you may choose (unlocked by level) that allows you to customize to *some* (very limited imo) extent on how you want your characters to be.
I'm asking because what I've heard about character customization is pretty much nothing resembling what I am familiar with as far as Diablo goes and I guess I'm just looking for some clarity.
Thanks again.
if you're talking about customization in terms of visuals then: dyes, gender.
if you're talking about customization in stats/skills: none
if you're talking about customization in items: runes customize skills, gems customize equips
-There is no manual control over stats as far as clicking points into them goes. You can still gear up, set Passive skills, and who even knows what runes will do?
Does this mean that MOST of the character customization process is inherently luck of the draw?
-A large part of it, to be sure, but I'd say that the biggest customization in the game falls on the skills you choose to use.
What's this I read about traits? Is that like Feats in Fallout 3?
-Traits are now called "Passive Skills." They are three skills you choose that affect many things, and (as the name suggests) happen passively. For example, they might raise speed, radically boost defense, or even use your life to help pay the cost of using skills.
If I actually want to make a glass cannon wizard, I have to find the appropriate gear and if I can't find that gear, then I'm just going to have to do with what I find as far as a build goes? Let's assume that I'm not interested in trading at all for now.
-If you want a glass-cannon, glass-cannon it up. There's so much gear to find, you'll be able to find SOMETHING that works. Again, it comes down to your skills.
If that's the case, you COULD theoretically be playing an entire game of chance and not any real and carefully planned build ideas?
-Oh, you can plan, buddy, but when it comes to getting specifics on things like gear and the type of rune you have, yeah, it'll be hard to force it ahead of time. Don't forget that you can have the artisans boost your existing gear to help you get what you want out of it!
Oh, okay. So it does seem like you have at least a good amount of control over character builds BUT there really is a huge luck factor in there as well.
Hmmm... That's going to take some getting used to.
Does this mean that MOST of the character customization process is inherently luck of the draw?
In the sense that loot is random, sure, but given the fact that you're going to ultimately tailor your gear to your chosen active and passive skill choices: I think not.
If I actually want to make a glass cannon wizard, I have to find the appropriate gear and if I can't find that gear, then I'm just going to have to do with what I find as far as a build goes? Let's assume that I'm not interested in trading at all for now.
You'd gear for damage, use nothing but damage active and passive skills, yeah.
I'm asking because what I've heard about character customization is pretty much nothing resembling what I am familiar with as far as Diablo goes and I guess I'm just looking for some clarity.
You're right, it's a significant departure from D1-2 in some ways. That being said, Jay (the lead dev) has made some really compelling arguments to the effect that choice is still very much in the game and that the major losses we're incurring here are not in fun/choice/customization but tedium from the old system(s) that are being phased out.
Oh, okay. So it does seem like you have at least a good amount of control over character builds BUT there really is a huge luck factor in there as well.
Hmmm... That's going to take some getting used to.
It's true. The recent announcement of Inferno difficulty included a bit about customizing your stats as you went along. It seemed there that many players will find it relatively easy to start swaying their stats toward the build they're doing. Their example was a Barbarian that had about 700 points in Vitality or something, but <300 in Accuracy, or whatever it's called, so that example was a Barbarian that had successfully swayed toward some kind of defensive build.
Because I'm oddly curious, after rereading through your posts, kontan, what would be satisfactory in allowing to feel like you can achieve a carefully planned build without the use of trading or good luck with loots?
First, I figure manual stat point allocation would help. What else?
Edit: Whoa, you just rewrote that whole post (I should have quoted it). Slightly invalidates my question, but still curious, though.
Because I'm oddly curious, after rereading through your posts, what would be satisfactory in allowing to feel like you can achieve a carefully planned build without the use of trading or good luck with loots?
First, I figure manual stat point allocation would help. What else?
Well, we have the artisans already. That's a really big one, so no leaving it out.
Edit: Whoa, you just edited, so I'm gonna comment on your edit.
That's all good and fine. I guess I'm just not sure how much of the loot finding system is something I want to rely on.
Yeah, loot was vastly important in Diablo 2, but I sort of always felt that leveling certain skills and using your stat allocation properly was pretty much what makes or breaks a decent build.
I have this impression that even though I can plan ahead of time and try to build my character exactly the way I want, I just feel that I'd have to answer more to a roll of the dice when it comes to item drops.
Honestly, it doesn't sound attractive to me. I'm definitely going to wait until others have actually played it and can explain what's really going on under the hood of the game. To me, right now, it sounds initially frustrating.
Thanks for the clarification, dudes. It was a big help.
Oh, okay. So it does seem like you have at least a good amount of control over character builds BUT there really is a huge luck factor in there as well.
Hmmm... That's going to take some getting used to.
Well, that's basically what the series is about. In some areas, randomness has been removed from prior games to the latest one, and in some areas it's been expanded. Of course, as far as stats go, stat progression will be the same for every Wizard. You could look up the stat increments online, if you want to.
Stats can be boosted by items, of course, which was largely the case in Diablo II (glitching your gear is still a sign of a real player versus a noob). Stats *were* customizable via the Talisman (and through it, charms), but that was removed a few months ago for its simplicity (?) or generic purpose, I can't recall which. They've said they plan to include an improved version of it in an expansion and don't intend to completely scrap it, but it won't be in the vanilla game.
To be perfectly honest, stats didn't really offer any real customization; or at least, not after you learned in Diablo II that putting anything in Energy is useless unless you use ES (< 5% of builds?), that Dexterity is only good until block is maxed (this can be done easily through items), that Strength is just a bar for being able to wear gear (again, easily done through items), and that Vitality is the most important stat (so cram everything else into VIT!). So, it essentially became the same "customization"/stat build for every character build and any sense of customization is no more than a clever ruse. This is a large reason for removal of stat point allocation. It was pointless in Diablo II.
(In my opinion, they should have just made the stats more useful in diverse ways rather than what they did.)
That's all good and fine. I guess I'm just not sure how much of the loot finding system is something I want to rely on.
Yeah, loot was vastly important in Diablo 2, but I sort of always felt that leveling certain skills and using your stat allocation properly was pretty much what makes or breaks a decent build.
I have this impression that even though I can plan ahead of time and try to build my character exactly the way I want, I just feel that I'd have to answer more to a roll of the dice when it comes to item drops.
Honestly, it doesn't sound attractive to me. I'm definitely going to wait until others have actually played it and can explain what's really going on under the hood of the game. To me, right now, it sounds initially frustrating.
Thanks for the clarification, dudes. It was a big help.
No problem. My only parting word on this is that I think you'll find that you have a lot more control than you're thinking there is now. Not that I've played and know that for sure, but yeah. Chin up. Optimism. All that jazz.
That's all good and fine. I guess I'm just not sure how much of the loot finding system is something I want to rely on.
Yeah, loot was vastly important in Diablo 2, but I sort of always felt that leveling certain skills and using your stat allocation properly was pretty much what makes or breaks a decent build.
I have this impression that even though I can plan ahead of time and try to build my character exactly the way I want, I just feel that I'd have to answer more to a roll of the dice when it comes to item drops.
Honestly, it doesn't sound attractive to me. I'm definitely going to wait until others have actually played it and can explain what's really going on under the hood of the game. To me, right now, it sounds initially frustrating.
Thanks for the clarification, dudes. It was a big help.
Actually I take issue with your memory of D2. Itemization was huge. Furthermore I think crafting is what your after and it's in the game.
Yeah, loot was vastly important in Diablo 2, but I sort of always felt that leveling certain skills and using your stat allocation properly was pretty much what makes or breaks a decent build.
a lot of people would fight you tooth and nail for that comment lol, since d2's stat and skill system was very unbalanced.
I have this impression that even though I can plan ahead of time and try to build my character exactly the way I want, I just feel that I'd have to answer more to a roll of the dice when it comes to item drops.
Honestly, it doesn't sound attractive to me. I'm definitely going to wait until others have actually played it and can explain what's really going on under the hood of the game. To me, right now, it sounds initially frustrating.
Thanks for the clarification, dudes. It was a big help.
I hope it turns out above mediocre. if it turns out to be a masterpiece, then all the better...lets all hope it will =)
Because I'm oddly curious, after rereading through your posts, kontan, what would be satisfactory in allowing to feel like you can achieve a carefully planned build without the use of trading or good luck with loots?
First, I figure manual stat point allocation would help. What else?
Edit: Whoa, you just rewrote that whole post (I should have quoted it). Slightly invalidates my question, but still curious, though.
It's probably most that I'm just set in my ways because I'm used to Diablo 2, I kind of expect something a little different, but something that I'm more familiar with than different.
Honestly, I would argue that if stat allocation is out the window and skills are being treated differently, I'd be cool with say... being able to craft gear from the ground up to minimize the dependency of the luck game. We're talking using manual gear creation while also creating a viable gold sink with a dash of luck thrown in. Maybe that's what they plan to do. I'm not sure.
Well, we have the artisans already. That's a really big one, so no leaving it out.
Edit: Whoa, you just edited, so I'm gonna comment on your edit.
lol, the difference is: I edited to add an additional statement. When kontankarite edited, s/he rewrote the entire post (which, as I said, made my question a lot less relevant). Thus is the reason I was a bit shocked and embarrassed.
I forgot the Artisans for some reason. Seems my memory is going to hell.
Honestly, I would argue that if stat allocation is out the window and skills are being treated differently, I'd be cool with say... being able to craft gear from the ground up to minimize the dependency of the luck game. We're talking using manual gear creation while also creating a viable gold sink with a dash of luck thrown in. Maybe that's what they plan to do. I'm not sure.
Congrats, you just described the Artisan System!
The blacksmith can make items from scraps, the enchanter can put various affixes on it, and the jeweler can help you make gems to toss in the sockets you made the blacksmith put in there!
Edit: and what's more, I'm pretty sure Jay said some of the best gear you can get is through the artisans.
So TECHNICALLY then, stat customization access is dependent as to how much gold you have.
That actually sounds really reasonable because I still don't think gold is going to be really really hard to come by, but there will be plenty of sinks in order to keep gold valuable.
Ok. So I'm a bit at a loss here and I blame most of that from coming into the discussion rather late.
Couple of questions (thanks for your patience):
So there's no actual manual control over stats?
I understand that Diablo 3 is based more on what you find in loot. That loot is the key factor in character customization.
Does this mean that MOST of the character customization process is inherently luck of the draw?
What's this I read about traits? Is that like Feats in Fallout 3?
If I actually want to make a glass cannon wizard, I have to find the appropriate gear and if I can't find that gear, then I'm just going to have to do with what I find as far as a build goes? Let's assume that I'm not interested in trading at all for now.
If that's the case, you COULD theoretically be playing an entire game of chance and not any real and carefully planned build ideas?
I'm asking because what I've heard about character customization is pretty much nothing resembling what I am familiar with as far as Diablo goes and I guess I'm just looking for some clarity.
Thanks again.
Also, I noticed you didn't mention skills. Yes, they may be swappable, but skills will still play a large part of your build. Personally, I think the skills would be most of the customization, and the gear and other things are there to complement your skillset.
yep
pretty much
never played, can't comment
your characters have some passives you may choose (unlocked by level) that allows you to customize to *some* (very limited imo) extent on how you want your characters to be.
pretty much. all the fan boys will disagree though.
if you're talking about customization in terms of visuals then: dyes, gender.
if you're talking about customization in stats/skills: none
if you're talking about customization in items: runes customize skills, gems customize equips
-A large part of it, to be sure, but I'd say that the biggest customization in the game falls on the skills you choose to use.
-Traits are now called "Passive Skills." They are three skills you choose that affect many things, and (as the name suggests) happen passively. For example, they might raise speed, radically boost defense, or even use your life to help pay the cost of using skills.
-If you want a glass-cannon, glass-cannon it up. There's so much gear to find, you'll be able to find SOMETHING that works. Again, it comes down to your skills.
-Oh, you can plan, buddy, but when it comes to getting specifics on things like gear and the type of rune you have, yeah, it'll be hard to force it ahead of time. Don't forget that you can have the artisans boost your existing gear to help you get what you want out of it!
Oh, okay. So it does seem like you have at least a good amount of control over character builds BUT there really is a huge luck factor in there as well.
Hmmm... That's going to take some getting used to.
Gear, but in a traditional diablo sense, no.
See above.
In the sense that loot is random, sure, but given the fact that you're going to ultimately tailor your gear to your chosen active and passive skill choices: I think not.
Achievements?
You'd gear for damage, use nothing but damage active and passive skills, yeah.
If you refuse to acknowledge skill choice and how you utilize the gear you have, sure.
You're right, it's a significant departure from D1-2 in some ways. That being said, Jay (the lead dev) has made some really compelling arguments to the effect that choice is still very much in the game and that the major losses we're incurring here are not in fun/choice/customization but tedium from the old system(s) that are being phased out.
Hope this helps.
It's true. The recent announcement of Inferno difficulty included a bit about customizing your stats as you went along. It seemed there that many players will find it relatively easy to start swaying their stats toward the build they're doing. Their example was a Barbarian that had about 700 points in Vitality or something, but <300 in Accuracy, or whatever it's called, so that example was a Barbarian that had successfully swayed toward some kind of defensive build.
First, I figure manual stat point allocation would help. What else?
Edit: Whoa, you just rewrote that whole post (I should have quoted it). Slightly invalidates my question, but still curious, though.
Well, we have the artisans already. That's a really big one, so no leaving it out.
Edit: Whoa, you just edited, so I'm gonna comment on your edit.
Yeah, loot was vastly important in Diablo 2, but I sort of always felt that leveling certain skills and using your stat allocation properly was pretty much what makes or breaks a decent build.
I have this impression that even though I can plan ahead of time and try to build my character exactly the way I want, I just feel that I'd have to answer more to a roll of the dice when it comes to item drops.
Honestly, it doesn't sound attractive to me. I'm definitely going to wait until others have actually played it and can explain what's really going on under the hood of the game. To me, right now, it sounds initially frustrating.
Thanks for the clarification, dudes. It was a big help.
Well, that's basically what the series is about. In some areas, randomness has been removed from prior games to the latest one, and in some areas it's been expanded. Of course, as far as stats go, stat progression will be the same for every Wizard. You could look up the stat increments online, if you want to.
Stats can be boosted by items, of course, which was largely the case in Diablo II (glitching your gear is still a sign of a real player versus a noob). Stats *were* customizable via the Talisman (and through it, charms), but that was removed a few months ago for its simplicity (?) or generic purpose, I can't recall which. They've said they plan to include an improved version of it in an expansion and don't intend to completely scrap it, but it won't be in the vanilla game.
To be perfectly honest, stats didn't really offer any real customization; or at least, not after you learned in Diablo II that putting anything in Energy is useless unless you use ES (< 5% of builds?), that Dexterity is only good until block is maxed (this can be done easily through items), that Strength is just a bar for being able to wear gear (again, easily done through items), and that Vitality is the most important stat (so cram everything else into VIT!). So, it essentially became the same "customization"/stat build for every character build and any sense of customization is no more than a clever ruse. This is a large reason for removal of stat point allocation. It was pointless in Diablo II.
(In my opinion, they should have just made the stats more useful in diverse ways rather than what they did.)
No problem. My only parting word on this is that I think you'll find that you have a lot more control than you're thinking there is now. Not that I've played and know that for sure, but yeah. Chin up. Optimism. All that jazz.
Actually I take issue with your memory of D2. Itemization was huge. Furthermore I think crafting is what your after and it's in the game.
a lot of people would fight you tooth and nail for that comment lol, since d2's stat and skill system was very unbalanced.
I hope it turns out above mediocre. if it turns out to be a masterpiece, then all the better...lets all hope it will =)
It's probably most that I'm just set in my ways because I'm used to Diablo 2, I kind of expect something a little different, but something that I'm more familiar with than different.
Honestly, I would argue that if stat allocation is out the window and skills are being treated differently, I'd be cool with say... being able to craft gear from the ground up to minimize the dependency of the luck game. We're talking using manual gear creation while also creating a viable gold sink with a dash of luck thrown in. Maybe that's what they plan to do. I'm not sure.
lol, the difference is: I edited to add an additional statement. When kontankarite edited, s/he rewrote the entire post (which, as I said, made my question a lot less relevant). Thus is the reason I was a bit shocked and embarrassed.
I forgot the Artisans for some reason. Seems my memory is going to hell.
Congrats, you just described the Artisan System!
The blacksmith can make items from scraps, the enchanter can put various affixes on it, and the jeweler can help you make gems to toss in the sockets you made the blacksmith put in there!
Edit: and what's more, I'm pretty sure Jay said some of the best gear you can get is through the artisans.
That actually sounds really reasonable because I still don't think gold is going to be really really hard to come by, but there will be plenty of sinks in order to keep gold valuable.